#nerdsbians

Dana: And I think we are live! Hey everyone, welcome, welcome, this is day 2 of ClexaCon Virtual. So glad to be here with you for our Warehouse 13 Bering and Wells panel. What a great video! I believe that was Mal that made that. Fantastic work! [They showed a fanvid prior to the panel on the stream.] Uh, I want to take a second to introduce Mark, our ASL interpreter. Thank you so much for being here, Mark. Well, I know that the Bering and Wells fandom is still going strong and, um, I’m so excited to be able to present this panel to you today, so without further ado, let’s get started. It’s been seven years since we last embarked on the wonderfully quirky world of Warehouse 13 and we’re thrilled to have not one, but two of the show’s stars here with us, Bering and Wells in the flesh, please welcome Joanne and Jaime!

Jo: [laughs] Hi!

Jaime: Hi guys!

Dana: Hi!

Jaime: Oh my goodness, I was tearing up watching that, that was just...

Dana: It’s so good, right?

Jaime: And Mal made it, of course, I mean just, the fandom is so amazing, that we have a fan who made that amazing movie, and I’m sitting here... were you tearing up, Jo?

Jo: Yeah... [laughs]

Dana: She’s like, I can’t talk right now!

Jaime: Aww.

Jo: Yeah, it’s, you know, it’s like, it’s like a, a wormhole, it’s like going in a wormhole, really, to see that put together in that way, and just, that somebody did that is, um, crazy, wonderful.

Jaime: Yeah.

Dana: When, when we are in person in, uh, in, in Las Vegas, I’m often backstage with the actors as they see these videos maybe f- for the first time, and your reaction is the reaction that everyone has. They all get teary, they all just like hold onto each other, it’s, it’s really sweet and wonderful.

Jaime: Oh my gosh, I, I wish I could go back in time and like, we film more of it and, and enjoy it more, because sometimes when you’re in it, you’re just going so fast and, you know, you don't even realize the meaning of, of, of what you’ve created until you see it through the eyes of the fans and what it meant to them, and then I, I wish I could lean into it more. [laughs]

Dana: Well, we’re certainly gonna get into that. [laughs]

Jaime: [laughs]

Dana: Alright, well, let’s kick things off! Uh, as of a we- a week ago, I was prepping to interview Jaime, and then suddenly the heavens opened up, and what was one became two. [they laugh] Joanne joined the party! How did this crazy kismet even happen?

Jo: I’m trying this new thing where I say yes. [laughs]

Jaime: [laughs] Well done!

Jo: Thanks. [laughs] Um, it’s a new thing I’m trying. Um, Jaime texted me and she’s like, I'm doing this thing, we had talked about it, I think the last panel we did at Dragon*Con maybe?

Jaime: Yeah.

Dana: 2018.

Jo: And she had told me about ClexaCon and I was like, that, because I really enjoyed that panel that we did, it felt, you know, I think one of the reasons, and I think that the work between us is, and I look at it now and I’m so touched because I, and I also just think the world of Jaime as an actor, I think she’s brilliant and her choices are so clean and-

Jaime: Ditto.

Jo: -full heart forward, like I, I’ve always been a fan of what she bought, and just personally on set I was in a, it was a very male environment, and Jaime came and I was like, oh my god, like, someone to talk to, someone who cared, and she took care of me, like she really - so I just, I don’t know, when she reached out I was like, of course, yes, yes.

Dana: Like it’s in two days, sure! Let’s, let’s go!

Jaime: We missed each other as well. It was also an opportunity to hang out, like, we missed each other!

Jo: Yeah.

Jaime: We had this flurry of texts of like, checking in with each other, and what-

Jo: What have you been watching? what are you doing?

Jaime: Yeah.

Jo: Where are you?

Jaime: Yeah, so.

Dana: Oh, that’s amazing! So you’ve maintained this really wonderful friendship since, since the end of the show.

Jo: Yeah, I mean, actors are nomads and we’re very sort of, I feel, Jaime, I don’t know if you feel the same way, but it’s like those friends that you have that you don’t see forever, but when you see them you fall back into a rhythm automatically, there’s never, it doesn’t feel push or pulled, it’s just, it’s just nice.

Jaime: I, I think also for us, um, I think there’s a sisterhood as well, you know, I think that, you know, Jo just touched on it. You know, often in a cast there’s, um, it’s changing and it’s evolving all the time, and this was seven years ago, and it was seven years before that, it started, so like fourteen years ago-

Jo: Oh my god. [laughs]

Jaime: But there’s, ninety nine point five percent of the people behind the camera are men, the majority of the parts are often men, or it’s, it’s male and women, but the men have the more heroic bits and the funnier lines and you’re kind of struggling with that and you’re glad to be working so you’re kind of making good and making it okay, but you’re kind of like, you know, getting feels, and, you know, as, as Joanne said, it, you know, you’re laughing at dick jokes when you don’t find them particularly funny- [all laugh]

Jo: Like wow! Oh! [sarcastic thumbs up]

Jaime: And so when I came in, I saw Jo - I had been on shows, like I was on a show called Hustle, I was the only girl in the cast, and then everybody, uh, behind the camera was, um, all men. Um, on Warehouse we had one female writer on some episodes, um, we never had a fe- uh, um, a female director on anything or a producer-

Jo: No we had, we had Tawn- [presumably about to mention Tawnia McKiernan] we had two fem- we had a few, but we were-

Jaime: No- no- not on my, not on my episodes.

Jo: Oh, on yours.

Jaime: But it was just like, I came in and I saw Jo and I understood, and I knew what her experience was, and so there was this kind of kinhood, this sisterhood, and I think it, it’s not a male-female thing, but it’s, it’s a minority and majority thing. When you’re in a minority and the majority is doing something, you either have to get down with the program and go with that flow, or you get kind of fe- you feel like you’re difficult or annoying to everybody. And I kind of came in and I just was like, oh like, I get it, it’s hard, and I’m gonna give this woman, like, my, my energy and my love and, so it was-

Dana: So you were like I- you looked at Joanne and you were like, that is someone I can smash the patriarchy with!

Jaime: [laughs] Yes.

Dana: Let’s do it!

Jo: No, I read a lot of books [laughs] when we weren’t filming. I would like get on my chair and just be like this. [mimes holding book in front of face]

Jaime: Yes!

Jo: [laughs] Like I’m doing this now, I’ll see you guys when we’re rolling again, you know, it was really- and, but also, you know, it’s so, and it is changing, it’s changing and evolving in a really, um, at a wonderful rate, but also I would get so excited to be in a scene with another woman that wasn’t about a man, you know, or that we weren’t- uh, it was just so nice to have girl-girl scenes. That never happens, it hardly ever happens. Like, the majority of scenes that you do are about love or acrimony with men, um, and it’s so nice to have a relationship with a woman that’s, um, sort of reflective of how relationships with women actually are. Um, I’ve been, I shifted into writing because of frustration with just not reading stories that I felt were reflective of our, my experience as a woman, you know, that sort of, um, and I think that Bering and Wells sort of in, I mean, that’s when that ship turned for me, as well.

Dana: Well ho- hold that thought, we are, we are going there!

Jaime: And, and also because it wasn’t, it actually wasn’t written. Um, there was, in a way we were able to steer that ship, and then we’d already kind of given a road map for the way this energy was, so it wasn’t written in the conventional way. Like, even like, when a, when a, when a, when a woman will have a love interest it’s, it’s often written by men and it’s o- often in a conventional kind of way, whereas our relationship, at a time before people were even kind of, uh, exploring this that much, um, now, now much more, thank god, it’s more, more inclusive. But it was more kind of, um, uh, complicated than, than maybe would’ve been written about, so it was given more nuance, yeah.

Jo: You mean like, do you mean like actual relationships? [laughs]

Jaime: You what? Say that again?

Jo: Like actual relationships! [laughs]

Jaime: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Jo: You know, that don’t come in and you have a “where they start and where they finish,” like that we, oh, we know where they’re gonna end up so we’ll just gonna-

Dana: Right, right.

Jo: -move them around like chess pieces. It was actually an energy that Jaime and I created, and the story sort of evolved from that energy as - it was inside out as opposed to outside in, which I think made it a real relationship.

Dana: Well, so my friend Dorthy Snarker, she once said that HG and Myka’s storyline has been main text pretending to be subtext, which feels really apt to me.

Jaime: Yeah!

Dana: So at what point-

Jo: Very smart.

Dana: What point in the show did it really click with the two of you that this connection that HG and Myka shared was something much deeper?

Jo: Jaime just had, Jaime, you just explained this very coolly in, in, um-

Jaime: One of our chats.

Jo: Yeah, yeah. Why don’t you speak to this, why don’t you take this?

Jaime: Well, well, first of all like I said, there was like kind of this sisterhood when I came in and, um, Jo, uh, Jo wasn’t like, like it wasn’t like I came in and she was like hey let’s be friends. I came in and she was behind a book, and she wasn’t particularly accessible, and she wasn’t, like, she was a bit grumpy, you know. And so I was like, my personality type is like, how do I crack this nut? [laughs] How do I make this woman love me? [laughs] This is the most unaccessible woman-

Dana: That explai- Jaime that explains a lot! [laughs]

Jaime: This is the most unaccessible women on the set, the mo- the most unaccessible human to me. How do I make her fall in love with me? So it’s like partly my narcissism-

Jo: [laughs] Jaime Murray in a nutshell, everyone!

Jaime: -and my ego, um, so I was kind of winning her over off set, and then, you know, as she was opening up to me and, you know, she was kind of telling me about some of the challenges she was coming up against, I was like, yeah, that’s, that’s not fair, and yeah, I completely get that, you know. So we were kind of like having that kind of journey, I’m like, like, I’m like, oh no, you’re not crazy, everyone else is crazy! Like, let’s smash the patriarchy!

Jo: [laughs]

Jaime: And then, and then unfortunately, um, Jo hurt herself really badly doing a stunt, and, um, you know, there’s no time to hurt yourself on a film set, and there’s no time to take time and, and kind of heal your back or anything like that. So she was taking some pretty strong painkillers and she was working through it, and I had spinal surgery, I, I know what back pain is like, it’s, it’s the worst. I mean, it’s literally everything, you know, you feel like an old person. And so I was, um, taking care of her as best as I could, and we had the scene, and it was the scene in the street where, I, I think it's the first scene that, where I get the grappler out-

Dana: Oh, the grappler.

Jaime: And I shoot it into the air and I put my arm around her and we shoot up-

Dana: We’re very familiar with this scene. [laughs]

Jo: [doing grappler motion] [laughs]

Jaime: Yeah, so, so it’s like, it had like, physicality, and also it was a really, um, we always laugh that Toronto has about five seasons in one day, so you’ll like start shooting the scene and then suddenly there’s a, like a snowstorm! Bright sunshine!

Jo: Then it’s sunny! Then rain!

Jaime: Torrential rain, wind - and it was one of those, and we had to move to a new location, we were really behind in the day, and she had this one pice of hair that kept on like blowing in her face-

Dana: Oh, I know where this is going, Jaime. [laughs]

Jaime: And she was, the thing was, she was like, also these painkillers-

Jo: I was like, I can’t even see with the hair, I was like, I was hopped up on so many painkillers...

Jaime: Yeah, she was hopped up, she was like, I can’t even get my hair out of the way!

Jo: I think I actually called that day, it was the only time where I was like, guys I can’t work anymore, like, I literally, the doctor was like, you need to rest and I’m like I can’t. And the first AD came over to me and he was like, you’re gonna have to say stop, because nobody is gonna stop the filming, and I didn't wanna do that because you don't want to be the person that, that loses the day.

Jaime: That’s part of it, isn’t it? You’re, you can’t be, you can’t have any vulnerability or be a woman in any way, any shape or form on a film set. [laughs]

Jo: Yeah.

Jaime: So I knew in the morning, and so I’d been like trying to take care of her and had, had like this experience of having spinal surgery, so I was like caretaking as much, as best as I could. I’m a Cancerian as well, so it’s in my nature.

Dana: Sure.

Jaime: And, um, and we‘re in this scene and we’d had to kind of cut so many times, and this hair just kind of-

Jo: [laughs]

Jaime: -came over her face like this, and I just lent forward and on my line I just moved the hair out of her, um, face and put it back, and there was this, this look of genuine-

Jo: [laughs]

Jaime: -surprise and shock in her face because we hadn’t rehearsed it and, and, and you know, we rehearse everything, and then, and then Joanne, what did you say that you-

Jo: I said I had this feeling, you know, when she did that I was like, oooh, um, what’s happening? [laughs]

Dana: [laughs]

Jaime: What are these feelings I’m having?

Jo: I did not expect all these feelings.

Jaime: Someone is being nice to me in this hostile world!

Jo: I was like this is so, it was like, pink light came up and there was glitter all of a sudden, and a unicorn in the back and, um-

Dana: Yep.

Jaime: They were really good drugs, you can’t, they’re illegal now, you can’t get them now cause they’re illegal now, but-

Jo: [laughs] No, no! But that point I’d say that the storyline really developed from inside out, you know outside, it was actually something, she did something that made me respond in a certain way, and as an actor you have those openings and you can choose to go, you either close them, like if, if I don’t like an actor [laughs] and someone does something, I might go like, no, I don’t wanna gonna go with that- [laughs]

Jaime: Yeah.

Jo: -and change the track, but because I love Jaime and, and that happened, I sort of just was like I’m gonna go with this energy and see where it leads. And so it was a very organic, and it took me completely, and I had not expected it, it took me completely- but I liked it, so I started, then that...

Dana: So you are the reason, you two are the captains of the Bering and Wells ship. You made that happen!

Jaime: Yeah.

Jo: Yeah.

Jaime: But also I felt like HG, you know, she came from an era when the suffragette movement was, um, happening, and she was active in that, however, she had to write under her brother’s name, um-

Dana: Yeah.

Jaime: And as a woman, you know, she couldn’t be even open about her brilliance and she had to let her dimwitted brother take credit for it, and then she was frozen. So she was an activist before her time and suddenly she’s waking up in a world where there’s this dynamic woman, gun-toating woman kind of using her wits and brainpower and like, god bless Pete [laughs] but he was a little bit, like, she was the brains and the brilliance, and often he would be kind of like, you know, taking the credit for it or like having the girls flirt with him, and I just felt like if I grow up, if I woke up from, you know, a dream of, of being a suffragette and I woke up and I saw Myka, surely I would be more fascinated-

Jo: [laughs]

Jaime: -by this woman who is everything that I had ever wished to be, so I started playing off this fascina- I was fascinated by her. Pete was just as stupid as my brother. [laughs]

Jo: And I do have to say, I do have to give the showrunner Jack Kenny credit here too, because Jack really let us run with it and started to lean into it, and the writers were all very accepting, so it was, and, and Jack particularly, you know, we had a lot, we had our creative differences, but he was really generous in this storyline with us, like I think, he gave us a lot of rope to play with-

Jaime: Yeah.

Jo: And it was interesting rope, because they never-

Dana: It was attached to a grappling hook is what it was!

Jo: Yeah, and they never, like what i really loved about it is the never like put it on the nose it was always very elliptical, we always had room to breathe, um-

Jaime: Well partly I don’t, I think that it was, it was, it’s funny to talk about it now because it doesn't seem that long a- long ago, but it-

Jo: But it was so long ago...

Jaime: -it was unusual-

Jo: For that.

Jaime: -for the genre and for the audience that we were going for to, to actually go there, um,

Dana: Yeah. Seven years ago, you’re absolutely right. Things have changed tremendously, and especially in the last five years.

Jo: Yeah, yeah.

Jaime: And, but I think that Jack and Drew, they were kind of excited about what we were doing, but actually, you know, we weren't sure what the network would say or what the advertisers might think, and so, um, you know, I’m really proud of the work that we were able to, to say-

Jo: Yeah.

Jaime: You know, being the first in some ways.

Jo: It’s interesting, you know, like Jaime texted me, she sent me this video and I was looking at it and I was just so proud-

Jaime: I sent you Mal’s video, I sent you one of Mal’s other videos.

Jo: She’s wonderful, so like shoutout to her!

Jaime: Yeah

Jo: That’s, yeah, it was gorgeous, and I was really proud of the work, you know, after, it’s, you create these things in a bubble and, I haven’t se- I haven’t seen Warehouse, I never watched it. [laughs] so I’m always very surprised to see these videos, it feels like I’m cracking open-

Jaime: And I want to say as well, you know, when we say we haven’t down and watched all the shows, or you know, in some peoples’ cases, many of the shows, you know, it’s, it’s not because we don’t love the show and we don't love the work that everyone else has done, done, it’s actually a lot of actors don't watch, um, their own work. It’s, if, if you’ve ever heard your own voice on an answer phone or something and you're like, who’s that? Oh my god, that’s me!

Dana: [laughs]

Jaime: Like, so when you see yourself on TV or screen it’s like that on crack, it’s absolutely terrifying, and, and you’re like oh my god, like behind a pillow, like-

Jo: Filled with self loathing and despair. [laughs]

Jaime: Yes.

Dana: That’s okay.

Jaime: Which is a work in progress, I’m trying to deal with that now.

Dana: Well, when, at what point did you realize that queer people were actually starting to flock to the show to support this direction with these characters?

Jaime: We, we didn't know, we didn’t know-

Dana: No?

Jaime: Well, we, um, I, um, Jo’s not on social media so I don’t know when she knew, other than maybe when I told her. I saw replies on twitter-

Jo: Comic Con.

Dana: Somebody didn’t like hire a plane and like, around the area with like, a Bering and Wells forever…?

Jo: I, I remember, I remember going to Comic Con, for me because that’s’ when I had the fan interaction, um, because I wasn’t on Twitter-

Jaime: Yeah, there were fans that told us.

Jo: And, and, uh, a lot of the women, I remember being asked some very specific questions during panels, and, you know, there's a lot of guys who like to talk at those panel so I didn’t get to talk a lot but I made it quite, I, I made it quite clear about how important that storyline was to me and it, it, I realized very quickly that it was important to a lot more women than me. I didn’t really realize, too, that storytelling wasn’t represented in that way, at that point, you know. I didn’t feel that. I didn’t feel like that was a groundbreaking choice, to choose to be attracted to a woman in a scene to me is life, it’s how I live my life, I, I’m you know, I don’t have those, I’m not in a box [laughs] and it so when I realized, it was a eye-opening moment. I’m like, I’m like, wait, wait, this is, this is something new that’s not being done?

Dana: You guys were kind of on, you were like right here [miming going up a hill or mountain] and then shortly after Warehouse, it started going like [woosh noise of going down the other side of the hill] and this wave of representation started happening.

Jaime: Well, ev- even in Warehouse, there was an openly gay character in, in Warehouse.

Dana: Right, yes!

Jo: Yeah, yeah, there was Aaron.

Jaime: But it’s been, it’s been incredibly, um, powerful for, for, for, for me, um, you know, I I, think that a lot of people, some people are like oh my god, you know, I wish I could go back to my childhood or my teenage years, I, you could not pay me anything for, I would not go back to my teenage years for love or money. It was, it was a incredibly painful time for me, um, and not a particularly happy time for me, and, um, you know, just awkwardness, you know, all the stuff that, you know, all the stuff people feel in their teens, all the bad stuff I felt in my teens, so when I’ve spoken to people at conventions, um, and they've’ spoken to me about, um, Warehouse having, and our relationship in Warehouse having a positive effect for them in their teen, in their painful teenage years, it’s, it, it, it can bring me to tears, because i- if I could have imagined having kind of that, some kind of impact when I’d been a teenager maybe I wouldn't have been so miserable, but, um, I’m really humbled by it. it’s really lovely.

Dana: Yeah, you, you most certainly have had a tremendous impact on a lot of peoples’ lives and I’m so glad that you are able to take that and keep it in your heart.

Jaime: Yeah.

Dana: Speaking of this kind of sea change of the last few years, do you think that if Warehouse had been airing now that things might have ended differently? Do you think that maybe that subtext really would have been pulled much more into main text?

Jaime: You’d know better, Jo.

Jo: I...don’t know the answer to that question, um, perhaps, actually, absolutely! It’s twenty twenty-

Jaime: If we were writing it, maybe.

Jo: I mean, that’s what I’m trying to do. [laughs] Um, yeah, I think so. Maybe we would have been able to lean more into that storyline, um-

Jaime: Maybe we would’ve had a, be a stronger voice in shaping the narrative there.

Jo: It, yeah, I mean, Jack was, Jack was great about it, but it, it was a different, it was a different era. I think now is, is really a beautiful time for storytelling in the sense that it is really becoming so much more inclusive and we have representation, which, I mean, seeing ourselves represented in stories is how we understand ourselves in the world, and that’s, it’s so important, you know, it’s so important where we’re going, um, and I wish there could have been more of that in Warehouse, but I’m glad there was what there was.

Dana: Yeah.

Jaime: I, I, I also think that, um, you know, it’s changed so much in just such a short space of time, but particularly in the last couple of years, like, women were always, um, portrayed like, like, women always had to be perfect and kind of cute, and, you know, there had to be kind of something attractive or charming about them at all times, you know, and so we always had to put a bow on a woman to make her acceptable. And one of the things that I’m really loving is, you know, that women can be flawed and they can still, you can still love them and, you know, one of the things that always stun- stunned me is that I’ve been so welcomed into a community of kind, inclusive, um, you know, powerful activist, um, women, uh, um, and I’m like, why do these amazing women even like my characters when I’ve played such, um, a bad character, and it’s like-

Dana: But, but we love that! Queer women love a villain!

Jaime: Well, it’s like, flawed characters, and it’s like, and then recently I watched this show called, um, I hate Suzie Pickles [actual title of show: I Hate Suzie], um, there’s a show called, um, uh, I May Destroy You. They’re British shows, actually, both are.

Dana: Oh, yeah, it’s so good.

Jaime: And they, these are complex, um, women who make bad choices, and they self sabotage and they do things that are kind of frowned upon in society, and yet I love them, these women, and it’s like, if I can love these women for all their flaws, then maybe I'm okay too. And I think that we, we have to allow women to be flawed and lovable instead of just being cute little heroines that kind of support men at all times. I mean, it’s changed so much, that’s kind of, like the old, the old order of what it used to be, like, but yeah, it’s exciting.

Dana: That happe- That was what was written in my yearbook! Just, Dana Piccoli, flawed but lovable.

Jaime: Ah! [laughs]

Dana: So I totally, I totally can appreciate that.

Jaime: Was it that? Was it- that would be the best!

Dana: [laughs] I love that.

Jaime: Flawed and lovable, not but.

Dana: Oh yeah, yes, flawed and lovable, sorry, sorry. That’s, that’s what, that’s where I went wrong in the yearbook.

Jaime: Exactly.

Dana: Uh, J- Jaime. A lot has been made of this, the apples scene.

Jaime: Yes.

Dana: Do you think I smell apples is basically saying “I love you”? Were you, what do you think that Helena was trying to express at that time?

Jaime: I, I, I think that it was, um, a sense of, uh, acceptance, and, um, and, and, and, and, and love, I mean, uh, because Helena had always been such a, kind of a troubled character in so many ways and she had kind of, um, these struggles and this darkness and these mental health issues and I think that “I smell apples” was a, a, a wa- wa- was, she, she’d kind of come to the light, you know, she, she had, had kind of accepted herself, and it was such an altruistic act of love, she was sacrificing herself in order to save the others, that it was true love, like she’d overcome the darkness. So it was, uh, I, I, I, I, love that, uh, moment, yeah, that kind of-

Jo: I know we wanted, uh, one of the most beautiful definitions of love onscreen is recognition of your soul in someone else.

Dana: Mhmm.

Jo: That’s really what happens, and I thought that when Jaime did that, there was a very beautiful, I mean it’s sort of like Romeo and Juliet. You see this moment of, and we talked about it earlier, that energy, that to me is that. what that is-

Jaime: Yes.

Jo: -the scene is, “I smell apples.” It’s these two people who see each other in each other and are profoundly connected, whether, in whatever way that it is, it’s just a profound connection, you know, and so often we find boxes to put these connections in, you know, as humans, we want to make sense, we want to make logic of them, you know, which is, I think, um, why storytelling suffers in the representation, because you want to define what a thing is and kind of, um, the most beautiful things about some of the most special relationships is they, they're beyond what you can say they are, they’re beyond categorization, they are, you know...

Jaime: I, I, I definitely think that, although it wasn’t written in that way, I mean, if you actually go back and look at the footage, I’m saying “I love you” to, uh, uh, HG is saying “I love you” to Myka and Myka is is let-

Jo: I only think that’s what she was saying.

Jaime: -letting, letting it land.

Dana: Confirmation, folks! Confirmation, um, everyone!

Jo: In here. [points to head]

Dana: Write it in your vows, write it now in your vows!

Jo: Dana, you’re funny! [laughs]

Dana: Thank you!

Jaime: But wh- when, when did I come back and I was like, married to, what-

Dana: You, you weren't married, you were with a gentleman, and he had a, a young child and-

Jaime: And he was a bit of a drip as well!

Jo: And the house was very suburban, that’s all I remember was, I like walked into this house and I was like-

Jaime: That was, was that, I don’t really know the chronological, um, ordering, but like, I had like a ponytail, and I had a, possibly-

Jo: You were probably like driving a minivan.

Dana: You were teaching, you were teaching, weren’t you?

Jaime: Cause wasn’t I [indecipherable]

Jo: It’s okay, Jaime, I [indecipherable]

Dana: You were like in Phoenix or something.

Jaime: Yeah so, so what was that, after a bit I, so like “I smell apples” was the ending of my character, right? So like that, was that after a bit-

Dana: Right, and then you got rev- you were brought back-

Jaime: Right.

Dana: And then you kind of disappeared for a bit.

Jaime: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dana: Yes. Yeah, um-

Jaime: Yeah.

Dana: The, um, the, the, uh, the fans [laughs] were, um, confused by that, were like what?

Jaime: I d- I’m confused, I’m confused! [laughs]

Jo: Not just the fans, not just the fans.

Jaime: Well, I actually, um, I, I, I really want to go back and see that scene, um, I, I feel like you came to, I don’t, I was living in like suburbia-

Dana: Mhm.

Jaime: And, and didn’t you come to-

Jo: I don't remember.

Jaime: -the house and I, I think you came to-

Jo: I remember that horrible house though, because it was like, it… [makes disgusted face]

Jaime: It was so weird and I was like hello, I’m kind of like a completely different woman!

Jo: It was like very Stepford, I like, I walked in and, I don’t know why Myka was so accepting, I would’ve taken a baseball bat to the house, gonna be like, we’re leaving!

Jaime: So, so, so, so, I, so I, Jack, so Jack, Jack-

Jo: Get out of here, you drank the Kool Aid!

Jaime: I remember Jack was there and I was like, um, uh, oh, like this, like, like this doesn't work because of this and this doesn’t work because of that, and I was having a little, kind of like a creative difference with him, and, and he left for the day, he left for the day, and I really want to go back and see that s- that, that scene, because I remember I was asking him if I could, yeah, I know it’s, it says this but could I play it like this? And I do- I remember he didn’t want me to for the storyline, but I remember he left. [laughs] So I’d love to go back and see, I, I remember think- feeling like I was quite naughty, that I actually got away with it, but, uh-

Dana: Oh, I am loving all the subversive shit that was happening behind the scenes. [laughs]

Jaime: Yeah. [laughs]

Jo: Do you remember the park bench as well? Remember that scene, it was-

Jaime: Oh, yeah, a bench.

Jo: Wasn’t that a bench?

Jaime: Oh, that was a love scene, that was a love scene.

Jo: That was a, yeah, we really went for that one. [all laugh]

Jo: Everyone was like, what? And I’m like, well, we’re doing it. Might as well!

Jaime: [laughs] And we’re in like, Toronto, and everyone behind the camera, like, they’re very blokey, and it’s not in the script, and then they're like, “oh I didn’t, they’re, they’re, oh I didn’t see that coming!” [laughs]

Jo: They were like, what are you guys doing? We’re like, we’ll figure it out! [laughing]

Jaime: Exactly! We’re just doing our own thing. [laughs]

Dana: Oh, a little, a little mutiny, a little bit! [laughs] Well we, we, we’ve ha- we’ve had such incredible conversation so far, and I have so many fan questions for you, and if we were onstage everyone would get to come up to the mic-

Jaime: Aw.

Dana: -and ask you questions, but I do have a bunch of questions that were sent in, um, so I do want to get to your fans, because your fans are so integral to keeping this like-

Jo: That’s why we’re here.

Dana: -story alive. Uh, let’s see here. Let’s kick it off. Alright, so wellsbering wants to know, what personality traits do you share with your characters?

Jaime: Well I think, I think that, um, I, uh, definitely always get cast as the baddie for whatever reason, but then I think that, um, really the quirky mess that I, I, I morphed into is basically me. [all laugh]

Jo: I like that answer, that’s great. Um, I, uh, am very A-type when it comes to certain things, and Myka very much, I’m very like, flowy, Myka wa- didn’t flow, but there are certain parts of my life where I’m not flowy around. My work is one of them, writing is another one. Um, and I’m very afraid of letting people down. I think that’s why I've been, I was te- telling a lot of the people that I was talking to today that, you know, the reason I didn’t do this a lot when the show was on, I couldn’t understa- i was like, why do people wanna meet me? They're gonna meet me and be disappointed.

Dana: Ohhhh.

Jo: Yeah.

Dana: I think everyone thinks that though, I think that’s very common.

Jo: I think tha- yeah, I think that’s the human condition, right?

Dana: Yes.

Jo: Um, but, but I think Myka and I share that sort of reserve, you know, that thing where you’re like I don’t, no, don’t get too close. I’m like a Monet, stay back. [laughs]

Jaime: And I, I think that was part of the chemistry as well, it’s like, you have that kind of like, you know, protectio- protective-

Jo: Yeah.

Jaime: -kind of like, edge. And so it’s like, if, I think that i- in a way, the gift that we had by it not being written for us is, if had been written we would’ve, the characters would’ve made each other, um, accessible to each other far too quickly. It was like the slow burn of, Myka could be quite prickly, and my character was completely messed up so it was kind of like, this kind of like energy between them where they were kind of like, you know, like working each other out, feeling each other out-

Jo: Is there? Is there an energy there?

Jaime: And then the laughs were well earned, and the smiles, and the deciding to work together was well earned. There was a, a lot of suspicion around each other, and when they opened up or they kind of let their guard down, it was hard earned, and and it was like, you know, something you would wanna rejoice at.

Jo: Yeah, aw, I love that.

Dana: Um, okay, so this is from mayberrycosplay, uh, you may remember mayberrycosplay, I believe one of them dressed as HG at a con, uh-

Jaime: Oh!

Dana: -but they wondered-

Jaime: I’ve seen a few HGs.

Dana: You’ve seen a few HGs.

Jaime: [laughs]

Dana: This is for Jo about, uh, Myka’s experience with ovarian cancer and, uh, like, how the awareness of this silent killer of women, like how that storyline, what that storyline meant to you and how it felt to portray that?

Jo: I was really nervous about that storyline, you know, anything that has affected people and their families and, and it’s always, I, you know, difficult territory to walk as an actor, especially in a show like Warehouse where there's so much happening on such a grand level that I’m like, are they going to pay attention to this? Are they going to really honor a storyline like this? was my concern, you know, like very often things like that are added like, uh, it’s like putting a robot arm on a story, and you're like oh, and by the way, there’s ovarian cancer! And so I was really, you know, concerned about showing up for that and, and, and and serving it in a way that people understood and, and could identify with that, you know, it’s such a catharsis, that’s what I think it’s supposed to be. Um, so it was, uh, I, the fans told me I pulled it off, that’s the only way that I know.

Dana: Well it meant a tremendous amount to, to mayberrycosplay and so that’s why they, they sent that in because it, it really affected them because of their own personal-

Jo: Yeah.

Dana: -you know, family journeys and such.

Jo: Well I’m so, so, thank you, I mean, I’m still wondering, you know, I worked really hard to make sure that was in there. We’ve all lost somebody to cancer, we all know what that’s like, we all know- I mean, I mean, I certainly have, to feel a lump and be like [does the Home Alone face] you know. I have two friends right now who are going through it, so I try to honor it in the best way. I- it’s one of the things that makes me want to be an actor, uh, that I think is so special about it is that you get to tell stories that people, it’s a group catharsis, you know, so I’m glad that, glad they think I, the only thing that, if they think I sh- I showed up then... [laughs] yes, good, good, good.

Dana: Um, let’s see here, cloxy813 wants to know what was your favorite, favorite scene to film together?

Jo: Probably the heaving bosoms scene. I was excited for the heaving bosoms scene, which was all like [mimes placing gun to forehead] kill me!

Jaime: [laughs]

Dana: Hashtag heaving bosoms scene.

Jo: It was so hot that day, I remember my tank top-

Jaime: So hot, oh my god, it was like-

Jo: It was like, my tank top, I would like look down and find, I was like, my boobs are out, um. [laughs] I just saw him sign, them sign, um.

Jaime: We were by that lake, I just wanted to dive in there. It was-

Jo: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I loved, I loved, I loved doing that scene, I have to say. And, and the chess scene, I remember that.

Jaime: Oh yeah.

Jo: I remember that very well. Um, I really enjoyed my work with Jaime because I, as I said, you know, there’s not a lot of scenes that are two women just being women. It was so, it was like a breath of fresh air and so I, I wasn't, I was, uh, you know, a lot of the times Myka was there to witness Pete-

Jaime: Or, or, or to laugh, or to kind of laugh and sigh at his super funny jokes.

Jo: The funny jokes... um, so, so it was so nice to not ha- be in a scene from that point of view. So often women are are written as accessories-

Jaime: Yeah.

Jo: You know, and, and this was a storyline where I felt like she was a whole person and I could be like a whole, real person, I didn't have to be like-

Jaime: I, I, I, I, I was on a show called Hustle and there was a character on it called Danny Blue, and he had all the funny lines, and one of the refrains that I had was “oh Danny. Oh Danny,” where every time he said something cheeky or naughty or a joke I’d go “oh Danny,” and I remember just being so excited to get the job, but then after awhile like me saying “oh Danny” really wore thin, especially as off camera I feel like I was more witty! [laughs] In that space I was much more funny, but all the funny was written for him, and I was going “oh Danny.” So when I came in I really, I kind of, um, you know, I knew the frustration of playing the, kind of, you, you know-

Jo: Straight man.

Dana: The “oh Danny.”

Jo: -if you were playing, right, right, the brainiac, uptight brainiac, and Pete had all the funny lines, so obviously we were in a lot of scenes with the rest of the cast and keeping the story going, but I felt as though all the character stuff that we had as, as women came from the scenes when we were on our own, and obviously that first scene with the grappler, um, you know, was, it was kind of the first scene where I’d been playing kind of like a little, kind of kind of like sneaky little looks and curiosity and fascination with this woman-

Dana: Yeah, we noticed.

Jaime: And, but, but, I, but, it wasn’t until the grappler scene that I thought that, that i was starting to get this, kind of, this chemistry going, and then there was a scene, do you remember the scene where I didn’t know how to work a computer or open it, it was like a, I was like a monkey-

Jo: Yeah [laughs] yeah.

Jaime: I was like a, it was like, I didn’t know what this is, we were-

Dana: Well, I mean in, in f- in fairness you had been in bronze for a long time.

Jaime: -we were in like a stu- a student room, a student's room, it was-

Jo: Yeah, we were at the college, we were at U of T.

Jaime: And, and. and we’d, it was the first time we’d deci- you’d, you’d kind of begrudgingly decided that we could work together, and HG was kind of a little thrilled, and you were a bit begrudging and-

Jo: Yeah.

Jaime: There was all, we, we still had to, ‘cause like, in sci-fi there’s a lot of storyline and exposition and kind of fantastical stuff, which is super fun, but actually as actors you really get excited about the character stuff and there was always just this great character stuff whenever we were on our own with a scene-

Jo: Yeah.

Jaime: -um, because we didn’t have to worry so much about servicing all the other characters, we just serviced each other.

Dana: Well, you know, there are only two kinds of queer women. It is thrilling or begrudging, it’s one or the other. [all laugh]

Dana: They fit perfectly in there.

Jaime: I mean maybe that’s why it resonated so well, and maybe it was the reason it was so great, that it wasn’t written, because you had these two kind of like, kind of sli- slightly spiky kind of like flawed women, kind of like o- one, you know, one not particularly into the other at all, you know, so-

Jo: It was interesting, I still remember, I still remember receiving that energy and receiving that stuff and realizing, sort of plotting, cause I’m like, how long would it take Myka to figure this out?

Jaime: [laughs]

Jo: Seriously, I was like, cause, Joanne is not her,, I’m, you know, I’m wasn’t in the box that she, I always thought, Jack’s like, you’re exactly like that character, I’m nothing, I’m not- [laughs] I mean there’s a part of me that’s uptight but there's a part of me that’s most definitely not, so I was like how, and I really wanted to do the discovery of it within her, the like, this, the, this feeling started, and then her sort of, and M-Myka to me as a character as a whole was always somebody who was afraid, this is somebody who was always very scared of everything and presented themselves in this very [mimes acting stuffy and uptight] way because there was so much going on here [gestures to heart] and it was slow in the five seasons, I really wanted her to like, you know, relax and start laughing and not be so, and I was like, there’s a certain amount of wonder that was like-

Jaime: Endless wonder.

Jo: -ohhhh, ohhhhh, ohhhh, like you kind of see her, one of the things about that journey is you start to see her discover sort of herself and her own feeling surrounding that, which I thought was really special.

Jaime: And also you, um, you, you kind of ended up, you, you know, HG was kind of like a tricky character and she was always one step ahead, um for, that first season, but then when she started to fall apart, you were the one that kind of put her together, and then I felt like there was also this humor introduced, this lightness introduced to your character through the humor el- elements-

Jo: Yeah.

Jaime: -and the surprise, which was, um, really lovely for your character.

Jo: Yeah, I, I think for m- for me, you know, it was a decision I made like in season two that I k- she had to evolve and grow and sort of, um, I couldn’t, I was, I was, I was like, I can’t keep coming to work and putting a giant stick up my ass [laughs] like we’re doing, like I need just to like expand her and go towards her relaxing and really finding, I think for her the big thing was always finding connection, you know, this-

Dana: Sure.

Jo: -we, we see in the beginning of the show is, it’s very cut off, very isolated, very like, and I, she lost her partner, that was, when I read that script, immediately I was like, this is someone who’s so scared of losing people again that she’s never gonna let anyone else in, and that was sort of like my understanding of her. And when Jaime came on, it was such a great way to explore that, Myka opening, you know, as feelings developed, her opening, you know-

Dana: Well, that, the growth, the character journey that both of your, your characters went on, I think that is what makes the show still so enduring to fans, like why they feel so connected to it, because we do, we saw that journey, you know, both of you had your own journeys to go on and you somehow managed to cross, cross paths, and it may not have ended the way fans had wanted it to, but we still go so much out of it.

Jo: I’m so glad.

Dana: I wish it was endgame, but what can I do?

Jaime: We, we, we need a spinoff show for Jo and I, we, we need a spinoff show.

Dana: Okay, yes, the spinoff, okay! You need to talk about that because-

Jaime: Who do we need to talk to to make that happen?

Dana: I got in a lot of trouble on Twitter yesterday for not asking a spinoff question, uh, what, like, what would a spinoff look like between between HG and Myka?

Jo: I think it would be have, to be now, which we-

Dana: Yeah.

Jo: And we’d have to get her, there’s no ponytails in this story, there’s no suburbs, there’s no fucking ponytails, um, no-

Jaime: I won- I won- I wonder if, um, it could be now, but, or, I wonder if I, I had to come in for a mission and then I actually pulled you back into my time, that might be an interesting way to turn it on its head.

Dana: Ooh, Jaime Murray, there we go!

Jaime: If we both had to go back-

Dana: I love me some period.

Jaime: -into my time or you know what made me think that [she does the Jaime Murray hair flip™] what I-

Jo: [laughs]

Jaime: I saw that, I saw that ne- The Nevers-

Jo: I miss that hair flip!

Jaime: -the, the, the a- the adverts for The Nevers on HBO, and I’m like that is the HG Wells spinoff right there, and I was like super fucked that I wasn’t in that, and then I read that Joss Whedon was a consultant and I was like [inaudible] really bad, so, but, anyway I think that that’s what we should do. I, I’m also obsessed with that time period.

Jo: I mean, yeah, and also like it was real, yeah-

Jaime: It was the beginning of ps-

Jo: Yeah.

Jaime: -psychology, of like Tesla, of of like different thoughts, there was like, they were like spiritual, um, kind of scientists and atheism and there was all it this opportunity for change, which actually wasn’t taken, but it was actually, it’s super interesting right at the time, there was suffragettes-

Jo: Also a fish out of water for me would be so wacky, because I’m a fish out of water too, alright.

Dana: I’m curious if yo all saw the Saturday Night Live sketch the other, uh, last week with, uh, lesbian period drama-

Jaime: Oh!

Dana: -and how, how every lesbian, like anything that features lesbians now has to be- [laughs]

Jaime: Well have you e- have you ever-

Dana: -it’s like the Edwardian or, like the Edwardian times.

Jaime: Have you guys read Sarah Waters, do you know this?

Dana: Oh, of course!

Jaime: Like, so, and maybe that is actually what helped me get to HG Wells, but I loved those books when-

Dana: Oh, they’re so amazing.

Jaime: -I was growing up and I feel like we should make those o- we should remake one of those b- Jo, you’ve got to read those books, and then-

Jo: I’m writing it down! I’m taking notes!

Jaime: Oh, it’s amazing.

Dana: You two would be amazing in her most recent one.

Jaime: She writes these amazing Edwardian, Edwardian kind of wanton lust and then there’s like, like the vervain or whatever, that kind of drug that they used to take back then-

Jo: Opium?

Jaime: -so it’s like slightly, kind of like psychedelic, oh, it’s amazing, yeah, she’s amazing.

Dana: [laughs] Well, we unfortunately are out of time, and it’s been so much fun to talk to the two of you, and I, I love the love that you have for your characters, for your friendship, for the fans, uh, it’s, it’s so lovely to see, and thank you so much for making this work in your schedules, I know you’re both super busy doing your own projects, um, and I want to think Mark. Mark, you’re amazing, thank you so much for, for interpreting.

Jaime: Thank you, Mark!

Jo: Thank you, Mark!

Dana: Um, do you have anything you want to end with, to say to the, to the Bering lesbians out there?

Jaime: Well, first of all, I want to say that, um, if anyone sends me messages to, you know, pictures or anything that that Jo needs to see, I’ll make sure that Jo, Jo gets it, ‘cause she’s not on social media, and I’ll, I’ll share stuff with her so that she can kind of know the love from the community.

Dana: Yeah, great.

Jo: I think, um, I’m actually gonna try to put together a newsletter because I’m trying to get my shows made and I could use this community, you know, to help-

Dana: Oh, we will support you to the end! We will march off that cliff with you.

Jaime: I could help you make a Twitter account, just for our community.

Jo: I don’t wanna do Twitter, I wanna do a newsletter. [laughs] I don’t wanna, I don’t know how many characters are in it, but it’s not enough. [laughs]

Jaime: But Jo, Jo, you have to actually read some of the fanfiction. The fanfiction is epic.

Jo: I have a book that I got, somebody wrote a book-

Jaime: Unbelievable, oh my god.

Jo: -like a novel.

Jaime: They’re brilliant, these people are brilliant, like best fans ever.

Dana: There is some really incredible work out there.

Jaime: Well, do you want to-

Jo: I just wanted to say thank you to everyone, um, you know, I don’t do these very often, and just like, the outpouring of love, like just the connection, I really appreciate it, I’m so grateful, so thank you.

Jaime: Yeah, it’s such a beautiful community. I feel really proud to have been welcomed into it and, uh, very grateful.

Dana: Well, we’ll hope to see you another time, and thank you all who turned in to this panel. [Jaime blows kisses]

Jo: Thank you.

Jaime: Bye, guys.

Dana: Do you smell apples?

Jaime: Bye, Jo, I love you so much.

Jo: Do you smell apples? I love you too. [blows kiss] I’ll talk to you soon.

Jaime: Yes, I’ll see you later. Bye bye, darlings.