#mirkwouldnt

3. a song you associate with fall: The Last Goodbye by Billy Boyd

14. the most specific mix you’ve ever made: probably the playlist I made to remind me of the piano camp I went to last year. it’s basically a collection of songs that the squad and I listened to during long car rides and now hold extra special meanings to me.

(1 Jn. 2:2) He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

John 3:16 is similar: that God so loved the world that he sent his son etc. I would argue this is a little vague though. Neither verse says “all humans.” The word “world” at least in English, could be interpreted as the world in general, or, peoples of the world. The bible frequently speaks of spiritual forces vs. “the world,” so this seems plausible to me that these verses simply mean God’s act of salvation is, in a cosmic sense, a solution to “the world’s” sin. Keep in mind too, that in the Old Testament salvation was for the Jews only, and this may have been a way to communicate to people of that time period that salvation was no longer for the Jewish people only. An important message of the bible is that salvation is offered to all, and all are morally obligated to repent and turn to Christ. Whether they obey or not is another story. All that being said, I would be curious to learn context for the original Greek behind “world” in these verses.

But given that ambiguity, I look to other principles of the Bible to help answer what these “world” verses specifically mean. And other biblical principles make it really difficult for me to accept that Christ died for every person. I think Piper* sums it up really well in this very post you are commenting on:

“If Jesus had truly died for the sins of the whole world, then the Father would be UNJUST in His wrath against us. If our sins are paid for, our slate is clean. Jesus can not be punished for someone’s sins and then that person punished as well.”

If Jesus died for all humans it would mean that no one will go to Hell, but the bible indicates that some will go to hell. I do not think Jesus died in vain for us, and I know his blood is infinitely valuable in our Father’s eyes. I cannot imagine our Father ignoring part of Jesus’s sacrifice and saving only some of the people he died for. To me, a lot of the verses listed in that post didn’t seem applicable to the argument at hand, except for Romans 8:29-30. That verse seems to connect predestination leading directly to justification leading to salvation etc.

My understanding is that the idea Jesus died for all is a necessary component of a works-based salvation... If Christ died for all but only some are saved, it means that only a few people of their own choice must pursue Christ, in essence helping to save themselves by accepting the gift of Christ. The bible however, refers to us as dead in our trespasses and sins - Ephesians 2. Scriptures make it clear over and over that the credit for salvation goes 100% to God. (EDIT: I should also say, the verses from the original post are all great verses for this part of the argument).

Happy for any further discussion on if you are interested :) I admit this issue is complex and a little sketch to me; I’m not well studied on it.

this is lovely <3