Quite obsessed with your "bad mothers" meta. I'd love to hear your takes on Idril and Morwen if the mood allows.
Awww thank you!!! I have to admit I have basically no thoughts about the characters of The Children of Hurin for various reasons, but I rly enjoy @outofangband 's meta on Morwen et al!!
Re. Idril - she's such a fascinating character to me because in terms of motherhood, there's a point in the narrative where she becomes almost the only care figure to the people of Gondolin - Turgon is determined to cling to the city, but Idril is the one who cares for the people to build an escape route for them. This is despite the fact that Tolkien more or less tells us that Turgon has appointed Maeglin his regent in all but name, even though he has Idril as an heir.
Besides becoming a symbolic mother to the Gondolindrim, there's also the matter of her personal motherhood - already Tuor carries the burden of prophecy from Ulmo, that from him will come a hope into the world, which he seems to interpret as having to do with his son per The Shibboleth of Feanor. What does it mean for Idril to be the one carrying this burden w/r/t her son already? She's already trapped in a wildly misogynistic prison, where her father is more inclined to listen to the cousin who very clearly wants to possess her not because he loves her but because she symbolises that which he perceives to lack within himself (Noldorness, official heirdom to Gondolin). What does it mean to have a child whom she knows she will have to surrender to his great Fate?
Anyway, I think a lot about the understatedness of Idril choosing to sail west with Tuor because he's growing old and a not insignificant part of Earendil's reason for sailing west being a desire to find Idril and Tuor. In The Unfinished Tales version of the telling, it's almost as though she quite literally passes on his Fate to him and is only capable of giving him the Elessar as a means of weathering what comes next (viz. the healing of the world). Every success and safety Idril has found is by surrendering to the prophecy(ies) and Fate(s) given by Ulmo! Counterintuitively & based on prior experience, she must know that surrendering both of themselves to their respective Fate(s), is the only hope for both them and for Middle Earth as a whole. Which is not an easy burden to bear - no wonder she might choose to sail west, instead of having to witness it coming to pass, in the tragic way it does, as well as to strive futilely as it might be, to reach the west and change this somehow.
But you could also read her leaving with Tuor as a decision to choose Tuor, with whom she has a greater shared understanding - both isolated, both having experiences of being trapped by circumstance, and Tuor as someone who respects her independent personhood and wisdom - and to escape seeing Fate come to pass. It seems she leaves early enough that it leaves some unfinished emotional longing in Earendil, that he goes sailing to seek his parents. Something that might be seen as abandonment as an outsider, but is maybe better understood as wanting simultaneously to fix things before the burden falls to ones child and simultaneously, to escape having to see Fate come to pass because there is nothing that can be done to stop it - only weather it as best as one can. You could even read it as her making herself emotionally detach from Earendil, so the weight of the Fate of the world that rests on him doesn't also crush her - which ironically also gives her the strength to raise him and be able to let go when the time comes for them to meet Fate.
I think Idril also faces the Catch-22 of some of the Silm mothers (esp. Melian, Luthien and Elwing) - if they act against Fate, they risk making things worse; if they go along with it, they risk appearing heartless or callous, failing at the perceived essential role of motherhood i.e. shielding one's children from the hurts of the world. Idril's reward for being Faithful is that she has to watch her son sail the skies as a star, immortal for the sake of love, but unable to really enjoy it.
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
â Live Streamingâ Interactive Chatâ Private Showsâ HD Qualityâ Free Actions
Free to watch âą No registration required âą HD streaming
Fingon has always loved fire, the risky, scathing dance and possible destruction of it. He has always loved Maedhros, burning fierce and steady. After months on the Helcaraxë, he is even readier to let himself get burnt if it keeps him warm.
"Light Endless, Light Morrowless" is such a gripping title! Please say more.
Thanks! I'm pretty proud of it. :D We'll see if the fic lives up to it!
This one is about a poor, unfortunate sailor in PharazĂŽn's fleet and draws from the quote in the Akallabeth about PharazĂŽn looking upon Taniquetil for the first time. I hope to have it finished in time for Tolkien Horror Week.
Here's a snippet:
What the tales do not tell of Aman is of the lightâof its overwhelming, overpowering potencyâfor this is the land where the sun sinks in scarlet splendor, drenching every shadow in its light. It is the land where the Valar walk, their eyes shining like so many suns.
It is where light spills upon water, upon land, like it has been poured out of the vault of heaven, an endless rain of light, undimmed by league, cloud, or shade.
My eyes are too weak to behold it. I keep my gaze upon my hands, cracked and bleeding, and the haft of the oar. But even this does not spare me. The chains upon my wrists flash like sparks of the sun, and black specks swarm my eyes like a cloud of gnats. And even when I blink, they remain.
It is said that the eyes of the Elves who live here blaze like stars, and the touch of their glance is like the edge of a blade lit by the forge. Only they, lit with the same light that blinds any mortal eye, could withstand this.
If you feel up to it, I'd like to know where the idea of Maedhros as a diplomat and scholar comes from.
In fic he's often portrayed as such in Valinor, serving at Finwë's court, sometimes being close with Fingolfin, bring into linguistics, etc.
Thank you!
Maedhros the Diplomat (with an Addendum on Maedhros the Scholar)
[~3.4k Words]
Ah, Maedhros. A treasure trove of fanon for our first excavation. As this is also our first investigation of characterisation, letâs establish a structure for talking about characters.
There are two ways that we learn what a character is like from The Silmarillion:
The narrator tells us, either:
a. with short, pithy statements (someone is âwiseâ or âsteadfastâ or âgreatestâ)
b. with longer descriptions
We deduce character from their actions and their relationships to others.
Using this structure, letâs look briefly as what we know about Maedhros.
1a.
Maedhros isnât âmightiest in skill of word and handâ like his father or âthe strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiantâ like Fingolfin. He isnât even noted as being particularly good at anything like his brothers Maglor âthe mighty singer,â Curufin âwho inherited most if his fatherâs skill of hand,â or Celegorm, Amrod, and Amras who were all skilled hunters. Heâs not even noteworthy for any negative traits like Caranthir, âthe harshest of the brothers and the most quick to anger.â
Despite being one of the storyâs protagonists, and certainly the most narratively prominent of the sons of FĂ«anor, all Maedhros gets in this category is âtallâ[1].
1b.
In this category, Maedhros gets more fully fleshed-out:
[At Lake Mithrim] Maedhros in time was healed; for the fire of life was hot within him, and his strength was of the ancient world, such as those possessed who were nurtured in Valinor. His body recovered from his torment and became hale, but the shadow of his pain was in his heart; and he lived to wield his sword with left hand more deadly than his right had been.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Return of the Noldorâ
Maedhros did deeds of surpassing valour, and the Orcs fled before his face; for since his torment upon Thangorodrim his spirit burned like a white fire within, and he was as one that returns from the dead.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Ruin of Beleriandâ
Perhaps one of the most striking descriptions of Maedhros comes from an abandoned alliterative verse poem, The Flight of the Noldoli (=Noldor), published in The Lays of Beleriand and dating to 1925 â about a year before Tolkien first put the âSilmarillionâ into a prose format in the annalistic-historical mode of the published text.
... and Maidros tall
(the eldest, whose ardour yet more eager burnt
than his fatherâs flame, than FĂ«anorâs wrath;
him fate awaited with fell purpose.)
Flight of the Noldoli, lines 123-126
Fire, valour, pain, deadliness, wrath, doom. Taken alone, these passages donât exactly suggest "diplomat and scholar," yet those qualities are a cornerstone how we often see Maedhros discussed and portrayed by fans. So why?
2.
Maedhros the Diplomat, at least, seems to be based on what he does in canon.
Pausing for a moment, what does it actually mean to be "diplomatic"?
Hereâs from Merriam-Webster under diplomatic:
[âŠ]
of, relating to, or concerned with the art and practice of conducting negotiations between nations: of, relating to, or concerned with diplomacy or diplomats.
employing tact and conciliation especially in situations of stress
And for diplomacy:
the art and practice of conducting negotiations between nations
skill in handling affairs without arousing hostility: TACT
Itâs worth noting that the first use of the word diplomacy dates to the 18th century (1766) and the concept itself is somewhat anachronistic to the pre-modern world of the âSilmarillion.â However, itâs not difficult to apply the spirit of an âart and practice of negotiations between nationsâ to First Age Beleriand. Weâll also consider the secondary definition of âtact.â
The Case for Maedhros the Diplomat
Let's look at some times that Maedhros practiced diplomacy and was diplomatic:
1. Waiving his claim to the kingship of the Noldor in favour of Fingolfin:
For Maedhros begged forgiveness for the desertion in Araman; and he waived his claim to kingship over all the Noldor, saying to Fingolfin: âIf there lay no grievance between us, lord, still the kingship would rightly come to you, the eldest here of the house of FinwĂ«, and not the least wise.â
The Silmarillion, âOf the Return of the Noldorâ
Is this an instance of diplomacy? Yes: resolving conflict by removing oneâs own claim to a title.
Is it diplomatic? The dialogue seems pretty tactful â demonstrating deference, employing flattery and logic â and is definitely an improvement on FĂ«anorâs approach to the contested kingship!
2. Brother-wrangling
There are two significant instances of this in the Silmarillion:
resolving conflict
After an argument breaks out between Angrod and Caranthir over Angrodâs authority to act as messenger to Thingol, âMaedhros indeed rebuked Caranthir ⊠But Maedhros restrained his brothers, and they departed from the councilâŠ" (âOf the Return of the Noldorâ)
Is this an instance of diplomacy? Yes: removing threats to peaceable relations between rulers.
Is it diplomatic? Since we donât know exactly how Maedhros rebuked Caranthir and restrained his brothers, itâs hard to say how tactfully it was done. Maybe.
removing to the Eastern march
There Maedhros and his brothers kept watch, gathering all such people as would come to them, and they had few dealings with their kinsfolk westward, save at need. It is said indeed that Maedhros himself devised this plan, to lessen the chances of strife, and because he was very willing that the chief peril of assault should fall upon himself.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Return of the Noldorâ
Is this an instance of diplomacy? Yes: again removing threats to peaceable relations between rulers. Also involves gathering followers. Notably, the strategy seems to have worked for as long as it lasted (that is, until Celegorm and Curufin found themselves in Nargothrond).
Is it diplomatic? Again, unclear how Maedhros executed this plan, but the narratorâs tone here is quite approving so itâs reasonable to assume that it was done tactfully.
3. Remaining on good terms with the other Princes of the Noldor
A few examples of this:
Continuing from the preceding passage, âhe remained for his part in friendship with the houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin, and would come among them at times for common counsel.â (âOf the Noldor in Beleriandâ)
Is this an instance of diplomacy? Yes.
Is it diplomatic? Yes: extra diplomacy points for taking it upon himself to go to them.
He (with Maglor) attended Mereth Aderthad, the Feast of Reuniting. (âOf the Noldor in Beleriandâ)
Is this an instance of diplomacy? Yes, though showing up to the High Kingâs peace party seems like pretty bare minimum lordly behaviour, not exemplary diplomacy.
Is it diplomatic? We donât know except through the absence of any evidence to the contrary. Since the Mereth Aderthad was overall a diplomatic success, itâs reasonable to assume Maedhros contributed to that success and stayed on his best behaviour.
He (with Maglor) goes hunting with Finrod. (âOf the Coming of Men into the Westâ)
Is this an instance of diplomacy? Sure: a leisurely hunting trip with the cousin whose kin you once killed (oops) is a good move.
Is it diplomatic? Again, lacking evidence to the contrary, reasonable to assume Maedhros behaved himself and the trip went off without conflict.
Remaining on good terms in particular with âFingon, ever the friend of Maedhrosâ (âOf the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediadâ). The anecdote about the history of the Dragon-helm (below), which has it pass from Maedhros to Fingon, additionally attests that these two âoften exchanged tokens of friendship.â
Is this an instance of diplomacy? Yes: in particular, the exchange of tokens of friendship between rulers.
Is it diplomatic? Unless we imagine Fingon was himself tactless (which is contradicted by what weâre told about him elsewhere) and their friendship was built around being mutually despicable (see: Celegorm and Curufin), fair to assume this was all done courteously.
4. Making alliances
with the Sindar
We know that many Sindar outside Doriath joined themselves to and followed the princes of the Noldor, presumably including the sons of Fëanor. (The Grey Annals §48 in The History of Middle-earth Vol. 11: The Wars of the Jewels, and elsewhere).
with the Dwarves
In the preparations for the Nirnaeth Arnoediad:
... Maedhros had the help of the Naugrim, both in armed force and in great store of weapons; and the smithies of Nogrod and Belegost were busy in those days.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediadâ
Also, from the Narn i hĂźn HĂșrin in Unfinished Tales:
[The Dragon-helm of Dor-lĂłmin] was given by AzaghĂąl to Maedhros, as guerdon for the saving of his life and treasure, when AzaghĂąl was waylaid by Orcs upon the Dwarf-road in East Beleriand.
Azaghùl then sacrifices himself and his people at the Nirnaeth, making the Fëanorian retreat possible.
with the Easterlings
But Maedhros, knowing the weakness of the Noldor and the Edain, whereas the pits of Angband seemed to hold store inexhaustible and ever-renewed, made alliance with these new-come Men, and gave his friendship to the greatest of their chieftains, Bor and Ulfang. And Morgoth was well content; for this was as he had designed. The sons of Bor were Borlad, Borlach, and Borthand; and they followed Maedhros and Maglor, and cheated the hope of Morgoth, and were faithful. The sons of Ulfang the Black were Ulfast, and Ulwarth, and Uldor the accursed; and they followed Caranthir and swore allegiance to him, and proved faithless.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediadâ
the Union of Maedhros
Perhaps Maedhros' most-cited and most famous act of "diplomacy":
Yet Morgoth would destroy them all, one by one, if they could not again unite, and make new league and common council; and he began those counsels for the raising of the fortunes of the Eldar that are called the Union of Maedhros.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediadâ
And [Maedhros] gathered together again all his brothers and all the people who would follow them; and the Men of Bor and Ulfang were marshalled and trained for war, and they summoned yet more of their kinsfolk out of the East. Moreover in the west Fingon, ever the friend of Maedhros, took counsel with Himring, and in Hithlum the Noldor and the Men of the house of Hador prepared for war.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediadâ
Are these instances of diplomacy? Yes: protecting neighbours, gathering followers, establishing partnerships, forming alliances with other groups of peoples, and organising a major offensive on a common enemy.
Is it diplomatic? Again, absence to the contrary and general success suggests Maedhros conducted himself tactfully in all of these dealings. One thing: I have seen a tendency in fandom to credit superior leadership and diplomacy on the part of Maedhros and Maglor for the fact that their Easterling allies remain faithful while Caranthirâs do not. Maybe; but bear in mind thatâs a deduction, not something the text explicitly states.
I am sure there are other tidbits here and there to support the diplomatic ability of Maedhros, but I think we have enough here to conclude the Maedhros the Diplomat is a fanon characterisation with support it in canon.
The Case against Maedhros the Diplomat
So Maedhros was a diplomat; but was Maedhros an exemplary diplomat, as the prominence of his characterisation as such would suggest, or just an average one? Let us look at some of Maedhrosâ diplomatic failings.
1. hubris, attempted deception
Look: we canât neglect that Maedhros is behind one of the most disastrous failures of diplomacy in the First Age â his attempt to parley with Morgoth that ends up getting him captured.
Though not in the published Silmarillion, in the 1937 Quenta Silmarillion, FĂ«anor with his dying breath tells his sons ânever to treat or parley with their foe.â (§88). (Christopher Tolkien drew from a later text, the Grey Annals (1950s), for the account of the death of FĂ«anor in the published Silmarillion where this command does not exist.) I cannot help but laugh at the fact that following this exhortation Maedhros immediately turns around and attempts to parley with Morgoth and outwit him.
Perhaps diplomatic relations with Morgoth are impossible, but then why accept the offer to parley at all? And whatâs up with trying to beat Morgoth at his own game (deceit)? Honestly, Maedhros. Not your best moment.
We can say that he learned from this, but it does put into question the idea that Maedhrosâ diplomatic training and excellence go back to his Valinorean days.
2. disdain of and aloofness towards another ruler
We saw how Maedhros restrained his brothers in the council where Angrod brought news from Thingol, but what about how Maedhros himself behaved at that council?
Cold seemed its welcome to the Noldor, and the sons of FĂ«anor were angered at the words; but Maedhros laughed, saying: âA king is he that can hold his own, or else his title is vain. Thingol does but grant us lands where his power does not run. Indeed Doriath alone would be his realm this day, but for the coming of the Noldor. Therefore in Doriath let him reign, and be glad that he has the sons of FinwĂ« for his neighbours, not the Orcs of Morgoth that we found. Elsewhere it shall go as seems good to us.â
The Silmarillion, âOf the Return of the Noldorâ
Fandom loves the line and I canât disagree that itâs an epic mic drop. But was this really the most diplomatic thing to say? In the Grey Annals, it is said that âthe sons of FĂ«anor were ever unwilling to accept the overlordship of Thingol, and would ask for no leave where they might dwell or might pass.â (§48). (Interestingly, there does seem to have been a point, before word of the kinslaying at AlqualondĂ« was out, that Thingol for his part was at least neutral on them, saying, âOf his sons I hear little to my pleasure; yet they are likely to prove the deadliest foes of our foeâ (âOf the Noldor in Beleriandâ)). Arriving at a new place and refusing to treat with the person who claims kingship of those lands â and apparently for no other reason besides disdain of that personâs ability as a ruler â doesnât seem particularly diplomatic.
3. not supporting a superior's initiative
We saw evidence of Maedhros cooperating with the other princes of the Noldor, but that doesn't mean he threw his support behind them at every occasion to do so. When Fingolfin â supposedly, thanks for Maedhros, High King and his superior â tries to rally the Noldor to assault Angband, almost everyone was âlittle disposed to hearken to Fingolfin, and the sons of FĂ«anor at that time least of all.â (âOf the Ruin of Beleriandâ).
This statement is frustratingly vague so I wonât speculate much besides to suggest that there could be something suspect â and undiplomatic â behind failing to support the initiative of the High King to whom you so graciously ceded your claim.
4. Oath-related diplomatic failures (kinslayings)
The extent to which the oath is to blame for events is a sticky issue and not the subject of this analysis, but since fulfilling the oath is essential to Maedhrosâ character, itâs impossible to avoid it entirely.
The narrator of the Silmarillion is actually quite generous towards Maedhros when discussing the role of the oath in his failings, so itâs no surprise that many fans are likewise generous.
For example:
I quoted above the passage about Maedhros taking âthe chief peril of assaultâ upon himself and remaining âfor his part in friendship with the houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin,â and it is perhaps the strongest evidence for Maedhrosâ diplomatic excellence. It also ends with the ominous words: âYet he also was bound by the oath, though it slept now for a time.â (âOf the Return of the Noldorâ)
And when the concept of the Union of Maedhros is introduced, we are told: âYet the oath of FĂ«anor and the evil deeds that it had wrought did injury to the design of Maedhros, and he had less aid than should have been.â (âOf the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediadâ).
Both of these passages remind us that the oath â a vow to vengeance â is in the long-term at cross-purposes with cooperation and diplomacy.
This becomes especially evident when a Silmaril ends up in the hands of those who should be allies: other elves.
For Maedhros and his brothers, being constrained by their oath, had before sent to Thingol and reminded him with haughty words of their claim, summoning him to yield the Silmaril, or become their enemy.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediadâ
The narrator pins this failure of diplomacy on the oath. But, as Maglor will point out in his final moments with Maedhros, the oath does not state how and when they must fulfill it. Is it a mark of a good diplomat to use âhaughtyâ words in making a request? And what about what follows Thingolâs refusal?
Therefore [Thingol] sent back the messengers with scornful words. Maedhros made no answer, for he had now begun to devise the league and union of the Elves; but Celegorm and Curufin vowed openly to slay Thingol and destroy his people, if they came victorious from war, and the jewel were not surrendered of free will.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediadâ
What do you mean, âmade no answerâ? The narrator explains this away by saying essentially that Maedhros was too busy to bother, but is it the most diplomatic to just⊠stop communicating with the king who had the Silmaril, and whose support would really be quite nice to have in the upcoming war? And what about Celegorm and Curufinâs decidedly undiplomatic threat? Long gone are the days of effective brother-wrangling, apparently. (So far gone, in fact, that by the time Celegorm carries through on his threat and the sons of Feanor attack Doriath, Maedhros seems to have deferred to Celegormâs leadership.)
The oath is again blamed for Maedhrosâ change of course regarding the Silmaril at the Havens of Sirion. Having initially âwithheld his handâ:
⊠the knowledge of their oath unfulfilled returned to torment [Maedhros] and his brothers, and gathering from their wandering hunting-paths they sent messages to the Havens of friendship and yet of stern demand.
The Silmarillion, âOf the Voyage of EĂ€rendil and the War of Wrathâ
As with the âhaughty wordsâ to Thingol, was âstern demandâ the most diplomatic approach? Would better diplomacy have made a difference? Well, maybe. I donât think the discussion between Maedhros and Maglor was inserted into the narrative without thematic purpose â and one of those purposes is, I think, to reveal the slippery space of conflict between obligation and choice; between that which must be done and how itâs done; between the morality of keeping oneâs word and the morality of doing the right thing.
Does the oath itself turn an otherwise mild and affable Maedhros into someone haughty and stern? Or are those flaws he already had and which are brought to the fore by the constraint of the oath? Well, examine the evidence for yourself â and allow the imagination to roam.
Final assessment: Maedhros is a good diplomat, certainly compared to his closest kinsmen. But just like Maedhros isnât the tallest (no, really, heâs not â but thatâs another excavation), heâs perhaps also not the best diplomat on the political stage of First Age Beleriand.
[1] If we go beyond the published Silmarillion to the âShibboleth of FĂ«anorâ (in History of Middle-earth Vol. 12: The Peoples of Middle-earth), we learn that he was a red-head and apparently âwell-shaped.â For an author who is notoriously sparse with physical description, Tolkien did seem to have a lot of ideas about what Maedhros looked liked!
Addendum: Maedhros the Scholar
âDiplomat and Scholarâ do seem to go hand-in-hand in the fandomâs most popular versions of Maedhros, but I focused on the former for this Ask because there really isnât much in canon to directly support Maedhrosâ skill as a scholar.
The Noldor, as a culture, are loremasters. FĂ«anor, Maedhrosâ father, was one of the most notable of these loremasters, even credited with founding the school of Lambengolmor, Loremasters of Tongues ( in the essay Quendi and Eldar in The History of Middle-earth Vol. 11: The War of the Jewels).
But, when Tolkien gives examples of elven loremasters, who, he says, were also âthe greatest kings, princes and warriors,â he names FĂ«anor, Finrod, the lords of Gondolin, and Orodreth. No mention of Maedhros. And, when discussing which sons of FĂ«anor took an interest in language, he mentions not the eldest, but Maglor and Curufin. (Both in The Shibboleth of FĂ«anor.)
So thereâs nothing in canon to suggest that Maedhros wasnât a scholarly type, but itâs not something heâs noted for. His most remarkable trait remains âtallâ.
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
â Live Streamingâ Interactive Chatâ Private Showsâ HD Qualityâ Free Actions
Free to watch âą No registration required âą HD streaming
@melestasflight tagged me to make a poll of five beloved characters from five different fandoms and let my followers vote for their fave!
Who's your favorite?
Maedhros (The Silmarillion)
Lirael (The Old Kingdom)
Wen Ning (Mo Dao Zu Shi)
Camilla Hect (The Locked Tomb)
Bigwig (Watership Down)
Voting ended onJul 4, 2024
Tagging @thelordofgifs, @tirion-picture-gallery, @vidumavi, @cuarthol, @swanhild, @leucisticpuffin, @emyn-arnens, @mahtaniel, @ermingarden, @welcomingdisaster, @swanmaids, @sallysavestheday, @zealouswerewolfcollector, @angelica-ramses, @lucifers-cuvette, @hhimring, @pixieinthesky, @elfscribe, and anyone else who hasn't done it but wants to -- @ me and say I tagged you!
bun, your rebirth post got me thinking about the "removal" of Valinor from the World, whatever the hell that means
for one, the concept has always given me such unease. What does it mean to remove an entire land (for Valinor is a land, after all, as you say) from the World? Does it remain tangible if it is no longer governed by the laws of Arda? What even is Arda if it has this liminal "pocket" in time and space where the Aman is now placed?
and more than that, and the thing that's even more disturbing, is what does this all mean for the Elves who are reborn? Coming back to your post and the loneliness that the Halls of Mandos imply, the removal of Aman makes everything all the worse. For the exiles, who fought to the death for Beleriand (say, Fingon), the incapacity to ever reach their old lands would be devastating. Not even to reach them, but not even knowing they are there, that you no longer reside within the same space with all the things you loved more than your own life. The process of healing in that situation would be extremely challenging.
It goes without saying that this feeling would be exasperating for the Avari, who never even wanted to leave the lands of their home. Middle-earth, the lands they could touch, smell and see, are simply there. Wouldn't then, the entirety of Aman become a prison of sorts? An isolation that extends beyond Mandos' domain?
There are so many questions this opens, and I'm likely opening Pandora's box here, but if you're in the mood for it, I'd want to know how you understand this. What even is the removal of Aman?
so it took me a bit to get to this cause... I admit I've thought about all that very little. I don't recall if we get a lot of textual evidence on this but it's a weird situation that you could read in more than one way.
cause iirc the removal of Valinor means that anyone sailing in that direction just finds more sea and eventually reaches the other end of the same continend of Endor. which I guess is a weird Columbus journey theory but actually real? I can't find the passage I recall, but I did find this which is equally haunting:
And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by some fate or grace or favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallónë, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died.
I do think however that the elves on Valinor would still perceive it as a "real" place. they can smell it and see it and touch it. though I don't feel as though that would change the potential perception of it as a forever isolation, especially for Avari elves. The bending of the world is certainly intended as a world-altering sundering, as a loss that happens because of catastrophic trauma, so I'm certain a lot of elves would have some Feelings regarding it. Definitely worth exploring imo.