#hsreread

FINALLY getting to the Suicide Mission (dun dun dun). I never really considered how Rose sees the "selves" before, but its interesting to compare it thematically for the Strilondes.

At this point, Rose and Dave are dealing with ideas of "iterations of the self". Whether it is through Dead Daves (already determined to be the enemy), Davesprite (whom Dave seems to enjoy until the existence of an alternate begins to unsettle him) or Dead Rose (absorbed into the new timeline, thereby losing to the "Alpha" Rose). There is an obvious hierarchy in both Dave and Rose's minds, the "alpha" is greater than the disposable alters.

This ties really well into the infamous Strilonde mantra of "we-bottle-that-emotion-shit-up." Rather than dwelling on how Dave feels towards the dead Daves or Davesprite, he dismisses their importance. Rose immediately offers her Dream Rose as the sacrificial lamb - Which I attribute to her inner self-loathing in the same way Dirk views his splinters.

I won't really go into Dirk because 1) NOT THERE YET and 2) I'm sure people who have talked about Dirk have done a much better job of discussing Dirk's views towards his splinters.

Roxy is, unsurprisingly, the odd man out. I can't recall Roxy grappling with "alters". In fact, she is the only one of the trio that actually stays as the "original Roxy" (omitting Dead Roxy prior to entering the game) by the end. Is it this intentional? Is it because she internalizes rather than externalizing her self-loathing? Is this because my bullshit theory doesn't fit the entire family?! Who can say (I can't).

Note that any thoughts/interpretations are based on this initial 'second' reading, and may contain inaccuracies to future plot, see previous posts for disclaimers.

Finally getting to the fun stuff, the Dave and Rose parallels.....I love how interwoven these two are. <3 Both Dave and Rose are at a point where two separate trolls are warning them about their destructive tendencies. The parallels start there and then sharply diverge.

In Rose's case, she is destructive against her Quest Line. She refuses to play the rain and tears through the fabric of the game to try and find something deeper. She is seeking out meaning through destruction.

Dave, on the other hand, is actually just following his Quest Line in many ways. The game sets up areas like the sword where he MUST be destructive to accomplish the task. And he isn't seeking something more from it, Sburb is grooming him to be destructive just as Bro was grooming him to be a weapon. I know a lot of ppl give John shit for being one of the most passive characters in Homestuck but it always makes me laugh how adherent Dave is to when being told what to do.

The aftereffects are interesting too. Rose feels punished/punishes herself for her destructive tendencies in the game because she will always question if she should have Played the Rain. And Dave acts very lost and fades into the background when he no longer has the guiding hand to tell him what new thing to break.

AHH i love them <3

Note that any thoughts/interpretations are based on this initial 'second' reading, and may contain inaccuracies to future plot, see previous posts for disclaimers.

Got off the Cascade high so now I can actually process my feelings/thoughts.

When Dave is presented with a choice to confront his fears, by two Seers in two scenarios, he eventually finds the courage to push past it.

Consider when Terezi "provides" an opportunity to go God-Tier, if Dave is able to go through with murdering himself. This is one of the earliest (if not the first) Dead Dave conversations, highlighting that Dave can't go through with the more grisly parts of "hero-dom."

This is the baseline that even though going God-Tier is the best possible outcome for Dave, he won't do it if it means dying. Or, more importantly, Dave won't do it unless he is destined/required to die as to preserve the timeline. Recall that he willing went to see Jade, knowing that he was destined to be killed by her/Jack.

Now, contrast that with the suicide mission. Dave and Rose's conversation is tip-toeing around the literal bomb in the room: Would you go on this suicide mission, if given the chance? No longer is it dying for his benefit, or because it is predestined. This is an echo of Terezi presenting Dave a "choice".

The answer? Dave, again, does not want to die. Their conversation is circular. Dave believes he should be on the mission because he made the map, because he is destined, because the cosmic signs are beckoning his death.

But Rose, while terrified of her own death, sees an opportunity for martyrdom. She pushes on this button, grinding on this fear in the same, persistent matter Terezi does.

What makes Cascade so powerful is how Dave pushes past his fear. At first, he accepts the reality Rose creates (it isn't possible to find her, there's no reason it needs to be him, he won't catch her). Even though he could wake up, break his promise and chase after her, he doesn't.

I was stewing on the contrast between the Exiles and the Patron Trolls from the perspective of the Beta Kids and I realize I was thinking of the wrong set of Exiles.

The Beta Kid Exiles are, primarily, game constructs. They interact with the kids as a way to develop Sburb and explain the game mechanics in the eyes of the reader, but don't provide much in the way of substance for the Betas. If you consider the Mayor, for example, he confused John with silly suggestions. Even WQ, arguably the most influential of the Exiles, provided Rose guidance regarding her Sburb tasks and what was to follow.

Contrast this with the Troll Exiles, who couldn't really give a shit about the progress of the trolls in fleshing out the "game" aspect of Sgrub. The primary Exiles (Jack and BQ) were inherently selfish, speaking to and manipulating the trolls for their own ends.

Now draw a comparison to the roles the Patrons Trolls take. They are, similarly, acting as "guides" to the Beta Kids to perpetuate this cycle of abuse and selfishness.

Vriska and Terezi are the most obvious showcase. Just as BQ pit them against each other for their own ends, Vriska and Terezi are trying to competitively push John and Dave to win a victory over the other. Of course, this isn't something they learned just from BQ. They take on these lessons of manipulation from other 'parental figures' (Spidermom, Doc Scratch) in their lives.

Its not just Vriska and Terezi, though. Karkat was entangled in this odd (dare I say incestous) abusive relationship with Jack, where he saw Jack as both a Father figure and ally who repeatedly stabs Karkat. Even his friends question this clearly twisted relationship between the duo. This is reflect in Karkat's initial courting of John, latching onto the idea that his 'trolling' is a way to build a relationship. I haven't hit Karkat/Jade's full interactions yet, so holding out before commenting there.

I also haven't hit the Kanaya/Doc Scratch's interactions, but I'm curious to see how this applies to the theory. Her interactions with Rose are obviously selfish, she wants to meddle with her crush/idol. That's why she waxes and wanes between concern for Rose's destructive behaviour and enabling her out of awe/desire.

Also, before anyone criticizes that I'm trying to bash any of the characters or w/e, this isn't a negative spiel on the Trolls. They are 13 year old kids, yeah no shit they're selfish? Come on, get with the program.

Note that any thoughts/interpretations are based on this initial 'second' reading, and may contain inaccuracies to future plot, see previous posts for disclaimers.

CASCADE SOON! But first, we must discuss Dave and his obsession with Seer Therapy. I always knew Dave was a selfish prick but boy, does he LOVE to talk about himself.

But I really blame this on Terezi. Now that one Seer threw him into a death spiral (seeing Dead Daves, providing the opportunity to kill himself, discussing dead Bro), Dave is latching onto Rose to keep the conversation going.

Note that any thoughts/interpretations are based on this initial 'second' reading, and may contain inaccuracies to future plot, see previous posts for disclaimers.