Does the Tree of Life exist in your Heavenbound au?
If it does, can you please explain the lore behind the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge, including the forbidden fruit. 🍎
Good question! This is a topic heavily inspired by my faith, but still a fictional take that doesn't completely represent my beliefs. I'm fairly sure my take is a bit different from most, especially within both the hazbin fandom and mainstream Christian communities.
I had some ideas for the Tree of Life, but wasn't really liking how it fit together, so I'm still workshopping that. I have a couple other ideas I'll ruminate on for a while. But I do want the Tree of Life to exist, it's just a matter of how I can fit it in without being convoluted or narratively irrelevant.
The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil(Tree of Knowledge will be the shorthand, but the full name is significant) has a stronger focus in the creation story than the Tree of Life does, and I have a clearer idea of it's role.
Continued under the cut
Something important to note is that, in my AU, the elder angels do not fully understand the Creators' intentions, so they sometimes make wrong choices or give misguided directions. They are not intentionally malicious.
The Creators made earth, and the Garden of Eden. Then placed immature souls(which grew to be Adam and Eve) in the Garden. They gave a few cursory instructions then vanished(I haven't fully figured out why). The Garden was sheltered, cultivated, and safe in a way that the rest of the world was not. Adam and Eve were tasked with caring for the Garden, and the angels said they could eat any fruit in the Garden, except fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, because it would make them suffer. At that point, Adam and Eve lived a very sheltered and easy life. Their needs were met, and nothing went wrong. They were content, but not fulfilled.
Helel(pre-fall Lucifer) believed that the Forbidden Fruit wouldn't just make them suffer. It would give the humans a wider range of possible experience. As they currently were, Adam and Eve never felt any pain or sorrow. But they weren't truly happy either, because joy is formed by the contrast between positive and negative experiences. Without experiencing sorrow, they would never know true joy. The experiences would make them "like gods," in a sense.
Many earthly experiences, for better or worse, happen because of the knowledge of good and evil. Eating the fruit didn't create evil, it just awakened a sense of morality in people, so we can learn the difference and choose between good and evil. One of the biggest differences between humans and animals is a sense of moral judgment. Animals can't choose to be good or evil, because they don't know the difference. But we can.
Eating the forbidden fruit wasn't really a bad thing. It meant they no longer lived an ignorantly sheltered life. Although the angels didn't understand that and didn't see the potential it opened up, just the loss and apparent failure to maintain a perpetual stability(ie stagnation). With the ability to choose good or evil came the possibility to sin and Fall out of heaven's reach, which scared the angels.
The Garden was a place of purity, so the immature souls could grow safely. But it meant Adam and Eve, now mature enough to make moral decisions, couldn't stay. Once they left, more immature souls would live in the Garden. Like young adults moving out of their parents' house, Adam and Eve had to leave the Garden and learn to fend for themselves. They had to work for their survival in the harsh conditions of the world.
Lilith was created by Abyss, my equivalent to Roo, specifically to tempt souls to sin and fall. She hadn't eaten the fruit, so she didn't have a sense of right or wrong. She was just being obedient to Abyss.
She befriended Adam, Eve, and some of the younger angels(particularly Helel). She convinced Helel to show her the Tree of Knowledge and he explained some of his ideas about it. She took the fruit and offered it to Eve, piquing her curiosity by repeating what Helel said about it. Eve ate it, then realized she would be kicked out of the Garden and ran to Adam. So he could stay with her, Adam ate it too.
It's not necessary to go into detail now, but Lilith eventually eats the fruit herself and rebels against Abyss. The elder angels don't trust her and she's cast into the eternal pit, Helel and some other angels defended her and were cast down with her.
Short version is that the Garden of Eden is basically a spiritual kindergarten and the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a mechanism for maturing, and Adam and Eve were kicked out because they grew out of it when they ate the fruit. Lilith threw things off a bit, but it's because of her and Lucifer that hell became a safety net to catch souls before they fall into the eternal pit. So overall, it works out.
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I know you said that Heavenbound Lilith having a snake motif is due to wanting to streamline Lucifer’s many motifs and Lilith in mythology being associated with snakes, but could another reason be that she plays a similar role to the serpent in the original Adam and Eve what’s with her being the one that convinced the latter to eat the apple in your AU?
Absolutely!
Lilith wasn't intentionally malicious, just being obedient to Abyss, but she was the one to convince Eve to eat the fruit. Coincidentally, I didn't realize the mythology of Lilith being associated with snakes until after I had decided to make her snake themed.
so are yoru holy trio(the crators) insperst by the 3 main arabic religions(jews,muslim and critaians)?
That would be an interesting way to do it, but no.
It's more based on what I refer to as the Godhead(basically a theological variation of the trinity, but the nuances aren't important right now). But instead of the father, the son, and the holy spirit, the Creators are the father, the mother, and the beloved. You can consider the beloved a stand-in for either the son, the holy spirit, a combination of the two, or something else entirely. I haven't committed to anything specific about that yet.
I went with a father and mother because I like the familial structure of it. And I do actually believe in the possibility of a heavenly mother alongside a heavenly father.
And I'm pretty sure this is just a spelling mistake, but they're the 3 Abrahamic religions, not Arabic religions. They're all considered Abrahamic because the theologies converge with the biblical old testament prophet, Abraham. He had two sons, one is the ancestor for Islam/Muslims, while the other is the ancestor for Isreal/Jews. Christians split from Judaism much later.
how was the first family reasionahip like before abel's murder
Adam is a stern disciplinary type of father. But he reslly did care about them. Just a little on the tough love side. Life for early humans was rough, and if they didn't heed his instructions they could get themselves killed. Permissive parenting was not a safe option. He'd be the type to spank disobedient children because it was better than the naturally lethal consequences.
Eve took the softer approach. More comforting and gentle. She helped mitigate Adam's harsher traits. He was more gentle when she was around than when she wasn't. She is traditionally feminine and likes activities like gardening, knitting, cooking, etc.
Seth is a lot like Adam. They would do all those father-son bonding things like hunting, fishing, playing catch, etc. Seth, as the eldest son, got to spend the most time with Adam, but is saddled with the highest expectations and responsibilities. He was often gone on hunting trips(sometimes with Adam, sometimes without) while the others stayed home to handle their own responsibilities.
Cain is the middle child. He tends to feel under appreciated and ignored. Eve likes gardening. So Cain learned horticulture from her and became a crop farmer. He feels like nothing he does is ever good enough in his family's eyes. But at the same time, he was blinded by his envy and greed, and refused to see what he did have. His ingratitude led to resentment building up. He particularly resented Abel.
Abel is the youngest brother. He's a shepherd, and is soft-hearted like Eve. But is still capable of manhandling the sheep when he needs to(shear those sheep, trim those hooves! They don't like it, but it's for their own good!). The sheep are like children to him, and the sacrifices/offerings the family makes to the angels are truely sacrifices for him. (Yes, I am projecting my own experience with my sheep here)
Cain views Abel as the babied younger brother who got all of Eve's attention and has the easy job. Just sit and watch the sheep all day. Meanwhile, Cain toils to grow food for the family and the livestock. Then his sub par offerings were always disregarded while Abel got all the praise for his sacrifices. It's always *boo hoo, poor me,* with him. But Cain is just selfish and ungrateful and refuses to see that it's himself that's the problem, not anyone else.
what might be the reason behind why sinners change their names? because it seems like nearly every sinner in the show has a self-appointed hell nickname (with the exception of alastor, apparently). maybe the reason why sinners change their name is that they don't want to be reminded of their old lives? But then it seems a bit unrealistic every sinner would care about changing their name. seems a bit inconvenient. Idk.
what do you think?
Watsonian take could be that they want to start a new life, and a new name is a good way to separate from their old one. Maybe they were too well known as a human, which could make them a target for sinners who would want to hurt them for whatever reason. Being eternally targeted for revenge wouldn't be ideal. Or they think they won't be taken seriously if they use a normal human name. Or something. I do struggle with this because, like you said, it's hard to believe *every* sinner would want to change their name.
My Doylist take is that Vivzie just wanted to have fun with names and decided they change their names after they die.
For my AU, I've decided that they come to hell with some amnesia. Some remember more than others, but a lot forget what their names were and have to come up with a name for themselves. As time goes on, some memories start to come back. By the time they remember their names, they've already established lives with their new one, so lots of them will just stick with it. Some switch back to their human name. Some never remember it.
In general, most sinners will have some degree of amnesia, and the memories that do return are often vague. The clearest memories are usually about their deaths and/or their sins.
My OC, Blossom, has been in hell for 7 years and only has a vague memory of eating something she wasn't supposed to. So she assumes she died of food poisoning or something. She picked her name because something about it felt familiar to her.
Alastor is an exception because of the demonic deal he made while he was still alive. He remembers quite clearly.
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“Abyss(my Roo equivalent) created Lilith(blonde hair blue eyes) to tempt Adam and Eve, but Lilith ended up rejecting that role once she learned better. So it’s possible that Abyss would try again, introducing other genetics into the pool.” so are you saying that there’s a possibility that the Abyss created people like Lilith with different genetic traits that ended up mingling with descendants of Adam and Eve? 👁️
Something like that, yeah. Maybe some get thrown in like changelings. That's not to say they're inherently evil, or that certain races are lesser than others or anything.
I'm still not sure how committed I am to the idea. So take it with a grain of salt.
This is getting into the realm of theology just a little bit, but I want to have a clearly defined structure and progression system in this portrayal of heaven. One that wasn't overly simple, but also not overly complex. I've thought more about this than I should bother with.
The halos represent the kind of angel they are, essentially. Yes, the generic person is based on a human version of Charlie. Don't think too hard about it, because it really doesn't mean anything. I just needed a stand in to show the different types of halos.
More under the cut:
There are two basic types of souls: Heavenborn/Celestials(who manifest with silver halos) and Immortals(consists of three stages: premortal, mortal, and postmortal. They manifest with yellow gold halos)
Then there are four classes of angels(because I find the classic hierarchy with thrones, principalities, dominions, etc. to be too complicated, and not even theologically consistent). Bottom up, the classes are:
Cherubim (consisting of immature souls, animal life, and fantasy species)
Saints (consisting of Citizens and Archangels)
Seraphim(Consisting of Radiants, and the Seven Heavenly Virtues(counterpart to the 7 Deadly Sins))
Creators. (High Father, High Mother, and the Beloved)This class is pretty mysterious to everyone. They created the earth and all life within it, then left to rest and are presumably still resting. They've gone MIA. The Virtues have taken over management in their absence.
--Cherubim/Cherubs-- (Cherubs is technically not the correct way to plural cherub, but I'll probably use cherubs and cherubim interchangeably. Same with seraph)
All souls begin as an immature "baby" cherub, which could grow up to be any type of angel. Possible stages of growth differ. Immortals must go throw a mortal stage in order to continue their growth; it gives them a wide range of potential. While Celestials don't. Immature souls look like floating orbs to start, sometimes they grow little fairy wings.
Immature->Premature->human mortal->saint or sinner
Immature->mortal animal->postmortal mature cherub
Immature->low cherub
Immature->high cherub
Immature->seraph
Human immortals are the only ones that go through two immature stages. Premature souls are like children. Then they move on to mortality
Animal immortals go from Immature straight to Mortality. Then they come back as mature cherubs. When your beloved dogs died, they become cherubs It's doggie heaven!
High/low cherubs are only differentiated by their level of sapience. High cherubs are the fantasy creatures with more human-like intelligence. Low cherubs are the fantasy creatures with more animal-like intelligence.
Cherubs are often tasked with guarding holy objects or places, like the Ark of the Covenant or the Tree of Life(although Saints often do this too).
--Saints--
Redeemed- Sinners that were redeemed and become saints were unheard of for millennia. They end up with rose gold halos, and hopefully it doesn't become a source of discrimination...
Citizens-- the majority of saints, just minding their own business and living their heavenly lives. In canon, they're the typical "winners"
Heralds-- Messengers, guardians, witnesses, etc. They're saints that have a specific assignment on earth. It's temporary. Once complete, they are no longer a herald, unless they get another assignment.
Archangels-- Saints with longstanding assignments and responsibilities.
Exorcist- the soldiers in the army of heaven. They're tasked with protecting earth and heaven from threats. Their most common assignment is exorcising any demons that have slipped into earth. Whether that is by returning them to hell or exterminating them is supposed to depend on the threat level.
In canon, the exorcists are implied to be created and named by Adam, but I'm making them immortal saints instead. So Vaggie was human. Consequently, they're not exclusively female.
Prophet- These are often notable righteous historical figures. They oversee local management, administration, leadership, and other civic duties. Like how St Peter watches the gate and greets the new arrivals. They don't have to be religious figures, notable people like, say, Mother Teresa, can count.
Chief- The Chief Saint is the leader of the saints. So far, it's always been Adam.
--Seraphim/Seraphs--
Seraphim are angels that represent a concept. Whether it be something physical, emotional, a force of nature, etc. Emily is a seraph of Joy. Helel(Lucifer) was a seraph of morning light.
There are two types of Seraphs
Radiant Seraphim- Represent a variety of concepts. Average seraph.
Elder Seraphim/The Seven Heavenly Virtues- the counterparts to the seven deadly sins. They've taken over managing earth and heaven in the absence of the Creators. They're a little stressed about it. I'm considering making Sera the Virtue of Diligence, but idk for sure. She might just be the leader of the Radiant seraphim. IDK.
Humility/Respect - Pride
Forgiveness/Patience - Wrath
Temperance/Abstinence - Gluttony
Charity - Greed
Chastity/Self control - Lust
Kindness - Envy
Diligence - Sloth
