#flouia rambles

It is 2am. i am not thinking. if this is not readable i apologise.

Now- this is mostly stolen from a video i watched while half asleep but if it's true the game is going to take a DARK omori-like path.

The theory basically is that;

Due to multiple flavour texts and small conversations between characters (Refer to bottom of text for reasoning) it is suggested that Kris at some point (before the game begins) witnessed, or DID, something that really, really screws them up. It is constantly reiterated they have blood on their hands they can't wipe off, that they're guilty of something, that they have done something they are paying the price for. (Very likely the price is being paid to Carol Holiday - as it is confirmed that the person kris is speaking on the phone to is her.) It is suggested Kris was perhaps put in a mental ward once, or atleast restricted and contained for a while during a period of intensive thoughts they had. Clearly, as they are free to move around, go to school, they've gotten better and been granted the ability to act as a normal teenager. If anyone would like to hear more about that feel free to ask. Now - I have a personal theory that is a small stretch but still interesting. What if Carol- or a similar entity (the knight, GASTER) inflicted the SOUL having control over Kris? Now, hypothetically, let's say Kris and Dess along with the rest of their crew as kids are hanging out. It is suggested that pre-chap1 Kris and Dess wanted to have fun- break some boundaries- and i believe it is implied that moment is when the aforementioned "traumatic event" occurs. If Kris was responsible, hence their "promise" and "responsibility" to do what is clearly not their primary goal by the hands of Carol (or the knight), Maybe simply promising to help them fulfil their task wasn't enough- and they are the cause behind us /the player/ taking control of Kris most the time. This theory would make more sense if, as the fandom likes to believe, W.D Gaster has something to do with Carol. Gaster is known (primarily in undertale theories) to have experimented on human souls. Lo and behold, Kris is the only human we see in game and has a human soul. It would make sense that perhaps gaster has something to do with it. It is interesting he has been *allegedly* proven to not be the Egg man though. Over time i think we will slowly capture glimpses of what happened, or it will be a very hidden side plot like the egg man stuff. It is very, very possible in my opinion that the event had something to do with Dess's death, Kris taking responsibility whether it was them or not and getting blamed, Dealing with significant trauma from it, Carol not being able to let go (she has a 'preserving' motif), and her wanting to try and bring back - no matter what it takes- Dess. In order to do this, she takes newly gullible and traumatised kris and forces them into a deal to help her, manipulating them into a pawn. I think Asgore may also be in on this. (due to basement text and his owning of a black shard) A possible way carol may be able to bring back dess is through the night. The knight could be dess's rotting corpse. Visually it has a rotting skeleton esq figure, antlers, so it's possible. And a pretty common theory is that the knight is dess anyway. We've seen that dead lightners can be - atleast partially - brought back to life through the dark world through gerson, as his ashes and hammer become him in chap4. Carol may be aware of this, and perhaps with the help of Gaster, trying to bring back Dess through this, with maybe something going wrong explaining why "dess" is acting so strange.

Knowing Toby fox is friends with the creator of Omori, inspiration could definitely been taken. And vice versa as the games have been in production at overlapping times.

References as to why kris may be traumatised include the receptionist asking how kris was doing after an event - The "Egg man" (or Forgotten man) revealing cutscenes about kris going to 'Art therapy' and supposedly 'doing that instead of killing eachother' - along with multiple statements about previous intrusive thoughts they've had along with how they've gotten 'better' before not acting like themself (when the soul takes over) Thankyou for listening to my tedtalk. I am not expecting anyone to entirely read this, i am just yapping. interesting though nontheless

EDIT: "you are greeted with yet another prison like area. You wonder why your adventures seem to feature so many of these"

this is just a possibility - i honestly think it could go one way or the other - but what if kris didn't necessarily do anything that warrants guilt, but the repressed memory makes them think they might have? it wouldn't be the first time stories made use of a character misremembering what had happened

it could go either way and kris would still deserve compassion because they were a child at the time, but it is something worth noting imo just for the lore implications. whatever happened it does seem that carol is holding kris's guilt over their head, and yet the fact that kris can't even actually remember what happened gives a little ick that either dess, carol or both use that undefined guilt to their advantage. it could even determine how the story goes

if kris caused or was at fault for dess's death somehow they'd have a larger hurdle to get through in terms of going against her/carol, but would have a pretty rewarding payoff if it's done right. if kris _wasn't_ at fault, then remembering the incident clearly could help speedrun kris's decisions to not follow the will of other people, actually

DELTARUNE SPOILERS!!!

(...has it been long enough i can stop saying that yet?) oooohhh i could kiss you for asking me this ty anon

I think if something like that was to happen, which, i wouldn't say is probable but is possible, tricky tony could absolutely pull it off. It would certainly be difficult though, as it creates a whole mirage of other questions that would have to be answered.

Why did the memories get repressed then? How did carol/big bad evil person get a whiff of that, and use it against kris? Who would actually be to blame?

Let's say, for the sake of theorising, The traumatising events causing this rabbithole of thoughts are infact Dess's Death. Say they were doing magic and it went arwy, and dess ends up dead. Kris is the main one present, though not at fault. Perhaps they got attacked by a bear in the woods and dess defended them, i dunno. // The main emphasis is that it wasn't Kris's fault however dess is now dead and they are main witness/factor #1.

Survivors guilt leads to repressed memories. Repressed memories leads to a larger, guiltier sense of guilt. Suddenly you have a depressed rabid teenager with the internal belief that they killed someone, even though that's not the case (entirely.) That's the summary of how it would most likely happen anyway. We won't know till... something like 2027.... *grits teeth* TRICKY TONY WHEN I CATCH YOU BUDDY. WHEN I CATCH YOU. But genuinely, i think that would be a great plot point. It would lead to lots of character development, especially if it took Susie and Noelle and everyone else helping kris accept the 'true' version of events. Emotional character redemption arc stuff.

"whatever happened it does seem that carol is holding kris's guilt over their head, and yet the fact that kris can't even actually remember what happened" ^^^ So this is interesting, specifically because of the "kris can't even actually remember" part. This kind of will vary between people, but i don't think kris has forgotten. I think Kris knows what happened, atleast in the littlest bit. It haunts them. Maybe they've forgotten parts of the truth, and it's more of a torment of the things they do know, but all in all i do not think Kris's memories have been entirely supressed and forgotten. Memories, when suppressed, aren't totally gone. They stay shelved in your brain, except in the very dusty cobwebs where the neurotransmitters have closed off and don't transmit much anymore. They're still present, they're still there, you just can't consciously access them at will. Kris knows what happened, they know the facts, but it's probably more of a retelling of the facts version than a "i experienced this" version. They know they're (allegedly) at fault. They feel the guilt. They've done something wrong. But that's what they've been told, a outside version that pieces together of what they could actually remember. Fragments of the truth pieced together by a narrative, that probably frames them in a bad lighting to ensure complete emotional manipulation and torment. Joy! My current running theory as to what the traumatising events are is that Dess knew how dysphoric Kris was about being a human, and tried to help them by using magic/spells to turn them into a monster, like the rest of their family. And it went wrong. etc etc traumatising death/stuckinthecode/carolmanipulation

Hi there! i'm actually in love with you for asking about this. Please don't die at the sight of what i can only assume is over 2000 words of theory talk. I really enjoyed writing this.

AGAIN! MASSIVE MASSIVE DELTARUNE SPOILERS!!!

THIS IS A

DELTARUNE THEORY

COVERING INFORMATION FROM CHAP 3+4 PRIMARILY (Stemming from a prev. post of mine) SUICIDE/SUICIDAL THOUGHT REFERENCES IN RELATION TO KRIS!! BE SAFE!

I actually am aware of the idea the forgotten man could represent the repression of kris's past and memories, i think that'd be a great concept and would give us alot of insight on heaaapps of things. Also once again would be VERY omori esq.

In relation to him possibly being gaster, i do really wish we had more info on him. Because we technically in canon have essentially no information on him other than he was a scientist and he fell into his own creation (in undertale nontheless, which could mean nothing in deltarune) i think that the fandom has very much created a all encompassing being that essentially fills every plot hole we can't answer. That doesn't mean our interpretation of him is inherantly wrong, but if gaster is the entity we're talking about it would reveal alot about his character, because we don't even really know what he looks like. 'His' sprite in undertale's code isn't even confirmed to be him.

However, something incredibly interesting about him is he's referred to in UT as 'the forgotten man' by the genocide route characters in the core. The sprite in the code is called the watching man, which could be taken as a link due to him 'watching' kris (perhaps in the art therapy room or even just as they traverse the dark world.) But because of his reputation as "a lost, forgotten soul" it is VERY possible that directly links to him being THE forgotten (egg) man in deltarune.

Also he's Dr. W.D Gaster. A doctor in a ward makes sense if he's the one hosting kris's alleged therapy.

Ok now i'll talk about the thing you actually talked about lmao

If Gaster/Forgotten man/Egg man is actually a symbol for a repressed memory- or even if the tree is, as it's possibly that too- i feel as though the game would fully end up.. i hate to use the word copy, but a copy of OMORI. The storyline would be very similar. don't get me wrong- i love the plot concepts, but it would feel very copypaste if they did that, which is why i believe or atleast hope that the forgotten man won't end up as that- a symbol of a repressed memory.

As to the plausability of it being true- it's very, very possible at this point due to how toby and his team have set it up. The fact that yes, the forgotten man has only appeared in the dark world so far, really implies it so. Especially because of the way Ralsei speaks of the dark world;

"What happens if the remaining light was taken away? And it got darker than dark? Then- maybe you'd be able to start seeing again." Side note: Gaster's theme is constantly associated as "Darker yet darker". The dark world is literally called the dark world and described as darker than dark.

Now Ralsei constantly reiterates in chapter 3 the fact that the dark world is not real. Additionally, It's seen that depending on the person who opened the fountain's views and motivations and just.. general personality greatly affects the reality within said dark world. Like when Susie's dark world is 'messed up', and Kris's living room one revolves essentially around them a significant portion of the time, eg Tenna referring to them specifically in fight dialogue ("Couples fight all the time! Tell 'em, Kris!") etc it really shows how the egg man is quite possibly a part of kris's mind. Which would make EVEN MORE sense if gaster has something to do with kris's soul- ESPECIALLY IF GASTER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PLAYER'S CONTROL OVER KRIS. Plus, the fact that heaps of Forgotten man lore/scenes are in Kris's dark world (chap3) are telling.

i am so sorry this is so long so far. i love writing about this. ONTO KRISES BACKSTORY.

Dialogue i will be referencing if i remember: "Without play the knife grows dull" "that flicker in their eyes (that kris can't hide)" "you just wanted to have fun.. REAL fun.. like the old days" on snowgrave: "The same part of you that enjoyed yesterday. Knowing you could say it wasn't really you." +Secret boss claiming kris had or HAS violent tendencies. All this implies kris's backstory is far darker than anyone initially imagined. My current suspicion is that Kris, after the 'traumatic event' mentioned in my last post became intensely violent, with significant intrusive thoughts. It's very possible that these violent tendencies also occurred before the event, which possibly even led to the event actually happening. Kris as a character has been revealed to have so, so much more personality than we previously thought and interpreted. We find out they don't just play piano, they enjoy it, and that they have interests and likes and dislikes, motivations, emotions and opinions, and most of all the fact they are not just a vessel for us to play as. Here's what i think happened in Kris's past: (Note: Kris possibly is dealing with intrusive thoughts building up pre-event /possibly caused? by the fact they are the only human in a place filled with 'monsters', which is proven to have had a effect on them as a child through the devil horns they wore and dialogue throughout the game) >Kris and Dess among possibly other friends including noelle and asriel, frequently hang out as a group. >Kris, due to their dark thoughts and nature, suggests they hang out in a haunted woods or something childlike and similar. >Maybe they experiment with "witchcraft", possibly with the help of catty who is shown to have a interest in spells etc. >Something goes violently wrong and kris ends up as the one blamed. Whether they are responsible or not is up for debate. Maybe the crew tried to summon a 'demon', ended up summoning gaster or the knight, i don't know. >The something that goes violently wrong ends up with Dess incredibly injured or even dead. Kris's knife is involved. Perhaps they got in a argument about something and the thoughts won kris over. >Due to Kris's participation in the event, they end up with severe trauma and intense intrusive thoughts or accidental violent tendencies, maybe social isolation (hence why they in chapter 1 have no friends at the beginning) (susie is unaware as it is suggested she is relatively new to the town and school) >As Kris is blamed, and due to the issues of their trauma and thoughts, they are put in a institution for a little while, or similarly just given restricted movement abilities OR forced to attend frequent (Group?) Therapy. >Carol holiday, who again has a preserving motif, is unable to let Dess go and has a "i would do anything for my family" mindset and character arc. Dess's death/injury/coma ruins her. >She attempts to find a way to bring back, or save, Dess and ends up possibly with the idea that she can bring her back through the dark world or some other similar way. >Carol blames Kris, therefor by way of manipulation and/or guilt tripping, sees Kris's vulnerable state and employs them to assist her in attempting to bring Dess back. >Hence why Kris is following Carol's 'orders' and assisting them, partially unwillingly or to their own expense. Because they have made a deal and Kris feels obligated to stick to it.

i'll never be normal about this ever

dess is the original soul holder and bestowed tragedy unto kris like we are doing to noelle and that's why kris is traumatised and can never wash it all off

dess (soul) -> traumatised kris

dess -> kill soul, ...kill herself in turn? get trapped in code bc of that?

kris (traumatised)

kris (gets soulified)

kris -> traumatised noelle

am i cooking chat (i'm not)