came across your theory and i’d like to hear more of your thoughts on Kris and the hints towards their past trauma! i’d also like to contribute that i think that the Forgotten Man might represent some sort of repressed memory—he follows kris through all dark worlds, and can only talk in the dark world they made in their own house, strengthening the connection between them. the forgotten island where you find him in ch3 is also a representation of kris’ early childhood, full of toys they forgot about when they grew up and started watching/playing games on the tv (dark world logic being “the whole world used to look like this, before tenna showed up! we didn’t sign his contract so now we’re stuck here”). and his ch4 appearance, in the therapy room, also feels very obviously important. there’s still some gaster-y weirdness about him and he mentions wanting to help someone in the secret valentines letter that has basically been confirmed to be him, so maybe he’s trying to help kris somehow? not sure, would love to know what you think.
Hi there! i'm actually in love with you for asking about this. Please don't die at the sight of what i can only assume is over 2000 words of theory talk. I really enjoyed writing this.
AGAIN! MASSIVE MASSIVE DELTARUNE SPOILERS!!!
THIS IS A
DELTARUNE THEORY
COVERING INFORMATION FROM CHAP 3+4 PRIMARILY (Stemming from a prev. post of mine) SUICIDE/SUICIDAL THOUGHT REFERENCES IN RELATION TO KRIS!! BE SAFE!
I actually am aware of the idea the forgotten man could represent the repression of kris's past and memories, i think that'd be a great concept and would give us alot of insight on heaaapps of things. Also once again would be VERY omori esq.
In relation to him possibly being gaster, i do really wish we had more info on him. Because we technically in canon have essentially no information on him other than he was a scientist and he fell into his own creation (in undertale nontheless, which could mean nothing in deltarune) i think that the fandom has very much created a all encompassing being that essentially fills every plot hole we can't answer. That doesn't mean our interpretation of him is inherantly wrong, but if gaster is the entity we're talking about it would reveal alot about his character, because we don't even really know what he looks like. 'His' sprite in undertale's code isn't even confirmed to be him.
However, something incredibly interesting about him is he's referred to in UT as 'the forgotten man' by the genocide route characters in the core. The sprite in the code is called the watching man, which could be taken as a link due to him 'watching' kris (perhaps in the art therapy room or even just as they traverse the dark world.) But because of his reputation as "a lost, forgotten soul" it is VERY possible that directly links to him being THE forgotten (egg) man in deltarune.
Also he's Dr. W.D Gaster. A doctor in a ward makes sense if he's the one hosting kris's alleged therapy.
Ok now i'll talk about the thing you actually talked about lmao
If Gaster/Forgotten man/Egg man is actually a symbol for a repressed memory- or even if the tree is, as it's possibly that too- i feel as though the game would fully end up.. i hate to use the word copy, but a copy of OMORI. The storyline would be very similar. don't get me wrong- i love the plot concepts, but it would feel very copypaste if they did that, which is why i believe or atleast hope that the forgotten man won't end up as that- a symbol of a repressed memory.
As to the plausability of it being true- it's very, very possible at this point due to how toby and his team have set it up. The fact that yes, the forgotten man has only appeared in the dark world so far, really implies it so. Especially because of the way Ralsei speaks of the dark world;
"What happens if the remaining light was taken away? And it got darker than dark? Then- maybe you'd be able to start seeing again." Side note: Gaster's theme is constantly associated as "Darker yet darker". The dark world is literally called the dark world and described as darker than dark.
Now Ralsei constantly reiterates in chapter 3 the fact that the dark world is not real. Additionally, It's seen that depending on the person who opened the fountain's views and motivations and just.. general personality greatly affects the reality within said dark world. Like when Susie's dark world is 'messed up', and Kris's living room one revolves essentially around them a significant portion of the time, eg Tenna referring to them specifically in fight dialogue ("Couples fight all the time! Tell 'em, Kris!") etc it really shows how the egg man is quite possibly a part of kris's mind. Which would make EVEN MORE sense if gaster has something to do with kris's soul- ESPECIALLY IF GASTER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PLAYER'S CONTROL OVER KRIS. Plus, the fact that heaps of Forgotten man lore/scenes are in Kris's dark world (chap3) are telling.
i am so sorry this is so long so far. i love writing about this. ONTO KRISES BACKSTORY.
Dialogue i will be referencing if i remember: "Without play the knife grows dull" "that flicker in their eyes (that kris can't hide)" "you just wanted to have fun.. REAL fun.. like the old days" on snowgrave: "The same part of you that enjoyed yesterday. Knowing you could say it wasn't really you." +Secret boss claiming kris had or HAS violent tendencies. All this implies kris's backstory is far darker than anyone initially imagined. My current suspicion is that Kris, after the 'traumatic event' mentioned in my last post became intensely violent, with significant intrusive thoughts. It's very possible that these violent tendencies also occurred before the event, which possibly even led to the event actually happening. Kris as a character has been revealed to have so, so much more personality than we previously thought and interpreted. We find out they don't just play piano, they enjoy it, and that they have interests and likes and dislikes, motivations, emotions and opinions, and most of all the fact they are not just a vessel for us to play as. Here's what i think happened in Kris's past: (Note: Kris possibly is dealing with intrusive thoughts building up pre-event /possibly caused? by the fact they are the only human in a place filled with 'monsters', which is proven to have had a effect on them as a child through the devil horns they wore and dialogue throughout the game) >Kris and Dess among possibly other friends including noelle and asriel, frequently hang out as a group. >Kris, due to their dark thoughts and nature, suggests they hang out in a haunted woods or something childlike and similar. >Maybe they experiment with "witchcraft", possibly with the help of catty who is shown to have a interest in spells etc. >Something goes violently wrong and kris ends up as the one blamed. Whether they are responsible or not is up for debate. Maybe the crew tried to summon a 'demon', ended up summoning gaster or the knight, i don't know. >The something that goes violently wrong ends up with Dess incredibly injured or even dead. Kris's knife is involved. Perhaps they got in a argument about something and the thoughts won kris over. >Due to Kris's participation in the event, they end up with severe trauma and intense intrusive thoughts or accidental violent tendencies, maybe social isolation (hence why they in chapter 1 have no friends at the beginning) (susie is unaware as it is suggested she is relatively new to the town and school) >As Kris is blamed, and due to the issues of their trauma and thoughts, they are put in a institution for a little while, or similarly just given restricted movement abilities OR forced to attend frequent (Group?) Therapy. >Carol holiday, who again has a preserving motif, is unable to let Dess go and has a "i would do anything for my family" mindset and character arc. Dess's death/injury/coma ruins her. >She attempts to find a way to bring back, or save, Dess and ends up possibly with the idea that she can bring her back through the dark world or some other similar way. >Carol blames Kris, therefor by way of manipulation and/or guilt tripping, sees Kris's vulnerable state and employs them to assist her in attempting to bring Dess back. >Hence why Kris is following Carol's 'orders' and assisting them, partially unwillingly or to their own expense. Because they have made a deal and Kris feels obligated to stick to it.
Getting into very very theoretical here; >Kris realises at some point maybe a year or two before chap1 that they do not want to help Carol, and the town needs to move on from Dess's death (or something like that) >They attempt to tell carol they no longer want to participate >Carol says no you're stuck with this >Kris tries to escape her manipulation and deal, but ends up doing something that makes carol furious or realise she needs more control of them. REENTERING THE GASTER/CAROL IN KAHOOTS GAVE KRIS THE PLAYER-CONTROLLED SOUL STUFF! i am milking this theory to its death. >Carol/Gaster duo inflicts soul upon kris in the hopes it will be more loyal than kris has been, and also psychologically torturing them a little in the process, ESPECIALLY in the snowgrave route. (side note; i actually havent though heaps much more about kris's past as i've been exploring other ideas... but if you want to talk more about those theories let me know!) An explanation behind Kris's absolute hatred and resentment of the SOUL during the snowgrave route (as if they don't have enough reasons already) is that not only are we tormenting their childhood best friend but additionally it means they as a person are inflicting the same manipulative pain onto someone as Carol did them, forcing someone to do things they didn't want to. It is weird that kris carries a knife around with them, as pointed out jokingly by Susie. Perhaps the violent thoughts haven't fully stopped. Maybe.. and this is DARK, but maybe they want a failsafe incase the soul, or carol, goes too far. So that if the soul does something so, so horrendously bad they could kill themself to get out of it. final act of regaining control. or maybe kill the soul. FIND OUT NEXT CHAPTER! idk Judging by their illusive dark past it's very possible they were directly suicidal or had suicidal thoughts... and those kinds of thoughts, even when you get better, are never fully gone. They stick with you forever. ....or there's a chance they just like eating entire pies at night and opening dark fountains with the knife and I'm the weird one here... we may never know THANKYOU FOR READING ALL THIS. I AM SORRY IT IS SO LONG. the ramblings of the insane are not a quick meal. if you want me to, again, elaborate on anything specific lmk i will write about this for days if need be. I'll try not to make it so long next time tho haha. if i didn't answer your ask properly then oopsie daisies i apologise profoundly // Thankee again for thou time, Flouia
