@fantasyinvader I was looking at the "Claude gives the Alliance like a hot potato to Dimitri to fig off to Almyra" convo, and he says this :
I'm leaving Fódlan. There are things I have to do. Dreams I need to see to fruition.
That's why I became the Alliance leader to begin with, actually. But it left me no time for what I was really after.
You'd better not take on too many responsibilities yourselves, or else you'll end up in the same boat.
And remember...both the living and the dead cling to us without any regard for our own lives.
It's up to us to break free of that weight and follow the path that we believe in.
Apparently, becoming the Alliance Leader burdened him too much to work on his "let's make people accept each other" ? Like, it left him no time to work on his goals??? When, as the Alliance Leader, he could have influenced the people of Leicester to, uh, not be so biaised against Almyrans (if only Almyrans accept to not invade for funsies, but that's something Claude will never tackle on, on-screen at least).
And the "living" who cling to him are a weight?
A burden??
Sure AM is all about living for yourself and making your own choices - but this game is also allergic to duty and responsabilities : is Claude basically saying having to look after the living people of Leicester is a weight or a burden that prevents him from achieving his goals?
Especially when this convo happens after Dimitri's return to Firdhiad, aka, him answering the hopes and wishes of his people as the King?
Sure the setting is not as heated as, say, Roland and Serenor from TS fighting over inheritence and Serenor accidently calling "ruling Glenbrook and being a King to its people" a "burden", but damn if Dimitri's reaction is, uhh...
Yeah.
Subdued is an understatment.
Bar the plot making as much sense as Thales not nuking Gronder Field when the mock Eagle and Lion mock battle happens to get rid of Rhea and the remaining Nabateans, Claude gives the Alliance away - after its lords agreed to be part of the Kingdom - because being the Leader of the Alliance prevented from reaching his goals.
Yeah, in a way, that's a good thing, because I suppose no one would like to be ruled over by a leader like that, who calls "responsability and duty to his people" burdens that prevent him from reaching his goals.
But more importantly,
What kind of insight does this convo bring to his S support with Billy?
All those weak people who have nothing to cling to but their goddess... They'll rely on you just like they used to rely on Rhea.
You'll be a leader all who are struggling to survive in war-torn lands can look up to.
If the living clinging up to him - or relying on him - prevent him, or anyone else, from achieving their dreams, that what is basically saying to Billy?
Is he saying Billy should bear that burden - people relying on them - even if it means they won't be able to achieve their dream, while he'd be free to do so?
I must return to my homeland. As for ruling this new, unified land... Well, I'll leave that to you.
Is it up to Billy to mop up Fodlan while Claude can still return home nilly-willy, claim his Almyran crown and work on his dream? Like, Billy takes care of the people and supports them, while Claude "works on his dream" or whatever this means?
I was joking earlier about this, but taking into consideration what this Claude believes, aka people relying on him is a burden/a weight preventing him from reaching his dream, his Nopes convo with Dimitri makes a frightening amount of sense :
That's right. Think about it. Who steals your freedom and gives you an endless list of duties and obligations simply because you have a Crest?
Bar the Rhea BaD/crust BaD hate boner, being a ruler means having your freedom stolen and instead receive an "endless list of duties and obligations".
That's basically what Claude is complaining about in FE16 as the one who had to lead the Alliance, so him complaining about the same thing in Nopes makes a frightening amount of sense!
Ultimately, I know we can't compare Fodlan's writing to FE10's excellent part 2, but we're very far from Elincia going from this
“…Why does this happen?! My people fight, brother against brother… And no matter what I do, I can’t stop it! I’m a miserable failure. I just want to crawl into a cave somewhere. How can anyone believe in me now?”
“I never asked for any of this… I never wanted to be queen!”
To this :
“I will not. It is my indecision that has allowed the rebellion to come this far. As the one responsible for protecting this country… I refuse to run from this problem any longer.”
“Thank you, everyone. I am indeed the queen of Crimea, and a queen does not hide. Our enemies are fellow citizens of Crimea. But we can no longer sit idle as they destroy the harmony of our nation.”
“You’re wrong. Strength without compassion does not a ruler make. Protecting people is what it means to protect the country. You care nothing for the people, so you are unfit to become king. You cloak your desire to rule with pretty speeches, but it is petty avarice nonetheless!”
Credit where it's due, F-Claude at least tries to keep Leicester people out of harm's way, but the way he words it to Dimitri, bar his nebulous "IdEaLs", Claude, in this convo, cares nothing for the people of the Alliance. They're just a weight preventing him from achieving his dream.
And this is a character IS wants to push as a Lord, similar to what Marth, FE5!Leif, Ephraim or Chrom are, when his mindset is completely opposed to them.
Granted, given how he is a Supreme Leader expy, and how IS force feeds her as a "Lord", that's not surprising but damn.
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I think part of it is in Japan, why you do something is important. If you do something that ultimately helps people, but if you do it for selfish reasons like getting a reward or something, then you're still considered in the wrong. Rhea propagating the false history to make peace or banning things that could be used for war, those are going to be seen as her doing things for a good reason whereas in the West, the reasoning is less important than the actions she takes.
With Echoes, it mostly comes to two things. 1) People believe that Echoes toned Alm down, and that he was more "kill em all" in the original. Combine this with Celica's actions at the end, and people accuse the game of favoring him too much. 2) People love how Alm calls out the rich and powerful nobles so they think the game is going for a check your privilege message, but as a result believe him being revealed as the heir to the Empire undermines this. That's two of the biggest misconceptions.
Thank you for taking the time to explain to me the complaints that people had (might still have?) with Echoes!
For the first reason, I don’t really know what to say. I don’t know much about Gaiden; Echoes was my exposure/trip through Valentia, and I enjoyed it. People are mad Alm isn’t bloodthirsty in the remake, that’s what I’m hearing? If anything, I’d say the character change was for the better (if they’re correct in saying that there’s a difference between Gaiden Alm and Echoes Alm, idk); to me, it just makes sense that someone who grew up a commoner would value life, especially in a farm town (Ram was a farm town, right?). Plus, I feel like Mycen would’ve taught him to value life, so there’s that too
As for the second reason, did these people go into Echoes blind, not knowing ANYTHING about FE2? What, do they think Rudolf being Alm’s dad was added to Echoes? Plus, the end of the game makes it clear you’re supposed to blame the gods for everything despite humanity playing a role in Valentia’s downfall. Also, wouldn’t someone who knows the plights of the people personally be someone you’d want to be your ruler? Although I guess since he saved Valentia, they probably would’ve made him ruler anyway, and fans would’ve preferred that…
Hey Nanigma. There's something I noticed. On the last map of CF, Arundel says to Edelgard “When this fight is over, a world completely controlled by the Empire will be upon us.“, while on the last map of AM, Edelgard says “The war’s end will spell destruction for one of us. There can only be one ruler of the world…” Do they both say rule the world in Japanese? Is this implying her goal is not just the conquest of Fodlan, but eventually the entire world?
Well for Arundel we have this:
I included Edelgard’s reply here, cause it’s interesting.
Arundel: Once this battle is over, a world where everything is controlled by the Empire will be upon us.
Edelgard: .... Not everything. I will only do what is within my power.
Edelgard: Moreover, until my reign is stabilized, for just a short while...
So yeah, Arundel here is boasting about taking over the world like a good little villain, while Edelgard’s hangups seem less about “only doing what she must” and more if such a thing is feasible for her to accomplish. Then she establishes Arundel will be her ally until she’s squeezed every last bit of usefulness out of him.
As for AM:
Which is:
Edelgard: This fight will end in the destruction of one of us. There can only be one ruler/king of the world after all...
I'd recommend them checking out Legend of the Galactic Heroes, since that is a confirmed inspiration for 3H, but I know it wouldn't go well. 1) They would say Ed is just like Reinhard and 2) would miss Reinhard's flaws and how his meritocracy fuels the second half of the series as the wrong people end up being put into power A lot of people seem to miss the series fully acknowledges how flawed his system is and how the end is about preserving democracy.
A lot of activists who advocate for systems like meritocracy or communism seem to believe it'll be great cause naturally they'd be at the top when 9 times out of 10 no they wouldn't, they are just a bit delusional and 9 times out of 10 in these systems the ones at the top right now would probably still be at the top or people much worse than them would be at the top with no system to remove them whatsoever. Democracy is flawed, capitalism is incredibly flawed but if your alterative is a system that's led to more deaths worldwide than the Holocaust or a system that is based on something so subjective as "merit" then yeah...... no amount of catchy slogans is gonna make me believe you've thought this through very hard.
Sadly most series that try to tackle this exact issue often end up with a fanbase that miss the point entirely.
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I've been wondering if the release date has anything to do with the discourse. Fates was released the year following If's release, and during that time people had an idea of what was in the script due to fan translations. The fandom would have been more aware initially of what was being left out. But with 3H, we had an English script almost instantly so people didn't question it until the fandom had already splintered.
Oh it almost certainly does. When Fates was still new in Japan there was a whole year for a certain subset of the fandom to pick it apart. And, since they were translating Japanese (a language I gather most English speaking FE fans don’t actually speak) you can manipulate information any which way to inform people’s opinions on it before they’ve even played it.
I’m sure there was a subset of antis or proto-antis or whatever back then that hated the fanservice and wanted people to hate the game immediately on release. I’m sure there were also people who mistranslated things, or who didn’t properly localize what was there or explain the context, or who did any number of other things before the game even came out to affect people’s opinions on it.
And yeah it’s possible people got all their discoursing out before the game was released in the west, too. Anyone who cared about the game enough to start discourse was probably eagerly following all the translations that were coming out at the time.
So one thing I've noticed is that in the animated cutscenes, Edelgard is often associated with darkness whereas the other characters are all associated with light in some capacity. The ending of CF is the only one without the sun, the only light coming from the burning city around her. Thoughts?
Edelgard herself says that her path is of darkness. “I've thrown it all away...into the darkness...“ and IIRC there’s other examples. Even if someone agrees with Edelgard, it’s only reasonable to accept that she her methods and goals are in the “ends justify the means” category at best.If we want to go a bit deeper in the darkness theming: Edelgard is constantly hiding the truth about herself and others - or she is actively lying. She is also very guarded and closed off in general. The exception is with... Byleth. And with Hubert, her igor.
Obvious propaganda was employed to rouse the nationalism of her troops, as well as claiming that the bombing was from the Church. Edelgard sees truth as an inconvenience.
At the end of the game, the truth about the slithers and that the empire was working with them is deliberately kept hidden from the people. The church is destroyed and only a state-run/monitored new church is allowed. You could say that the Empire casting a shadow over Fodlan that obscures truths or beliefs that Edelgard does not want people to see.
Contrast this with Claude’s ending, which is very sunny. Claude wants to uncover the truth. The actual truth, not just HIS truth. Claude’s perspective towards religion is anyone should be able to organize and practice their religion, even if he himself personally sees things like prayer negatively.
Edelgard on the other hand, wants people to only see her truth, and by her own words she wants to force people to agree with her.
I think the worse Fodlanism is if any unit other than Byleth or Linhardt faces Caspar. "Did you have to kill a lot of your friends to get here? Cause I'm gonna give this fight everything I've got!"
Umm, you don't have to. You can recruit every other unit in the game bar Caspar and he'll still try to call other people out for killing those they used to know. But this also sidesteps the fact that his nation is attacking them and they're the one's fighting back. Edelgard is the one who began trying to kill her "friends" and he's defending her.
IIRC there's a saying that basically amounts to nobody give a fig about killing 10k randos, but if you kill one named character suddenly it's the end of the world?
We can give him some slack though, given how Caspar should, imo, be prone to buy various "information campaigns" from Supreme Leader, but yes, this is especially tone deaf considering his Emperor started the War and launched her attack on the Monastery, where some of his so-called friends were still around - with only two measly weeks to evacuate.
Again, a demonstration of double headed eagle self-awareness, but that's to be expected with Adrestian characters, remember when Doro blames the goddess for having to fight against Billy'n'co?
