#badger lion

JKR really likes "toxic Badger" as a villain archetype (Vernon, Umbridge, and Draco are all Badger primaries) and even though Scrimgeour isn't a *villain* exactly... he still fits the theme.

Because his whole *thing* is cohesion of the group above everything. His "tough on Death Eaters" stance isn't Barty Senior's more Idealistic, black and white, zero tolerance policy. Scrimgeour wants to keep up morale, make his community feel secure and safe... and in order to do that, he feels like he needs to be making arrests (that's probably his Lion secondary talking.) The quality of the arrests matters less. I think Scrimgeour knows he's not getting the top guys, might not be even getting the right guys. Harry's theory is that Stan Shunpike was probably just telling tall tales, pretending to have top-secret information to seem more impressive. But this is where some of that toxic Badger dehumanization kicks in. I think that in Scrimgeour's head, being Death Eater *aligned,* or lying in a way that makes the fight even slightly harder... you're not one of the people he needs to protect, anymore.

hi, wisteria! I enjoy reading your sorting asks and I’ve been struggling with my sort for a while now, so I thought I would write in to ask you for some help. (the little list of bulletins you made for things to possibly include in a sorting ask was very helpful with this, btw—and now I’m wondering if that’s something that might hints towards a house too: bird? bird-like?)

I grew up in a somewhat stifling house: I played the role of perfect child for a very long time. I still do, except I’m aware I’m playing the role now—whereas I previously used to think that’s “who I have to be”—and this position, though frustrating at times (because it’s actively someone I’m not and it involves many degrees of lying), feels much better. 

A friend of mine once defined “authenticity” as “consensual presentation” and I always liked that. The presentation is the same, but it feels like a choice, and a decision you are freely making when it didn’t before. Of course that feels better. 

With everyone else in my life, I shuffle characteristics around here and there. I moderate based on what I think people can handle; usually, it’s just because I think that different people do require different kinds of modulations (I suppose I say modulations because the traits I exhibit are all present in some degree or another mostly; there are some traits I find exhausting to exhibit and don’t try to, mostly) and I’m generally happy to give them that. I do wish it wasn’t like this sometimes, because it feels like work (so not snake?), but I’ve come to realize different degrees of intensity with different people is just how things work sometimes. 

You have a very sort of calm writing style, but this does sound like Lion secondary to me. This is how Lions talk about face-changing. Like a very chill lion, but still. (Modulation = the classic Lion dimmer switch/volume dial metaphor.)

And overall, it helps people be comfortable + makes for more interesting and thoughtful conversation in general, which I would rather have than never feeling a lil :/ about altering personalities. 

Hmm. Signs of a Loyalist primary? Snake or Badger maybe? 

I suppose this is a good point to switch into mentioning that people are sort of the lynchpin to my everyday

and there we are. 

I like people, I like thinking through how they work, and I even enjoy my job because it allows me to encourage people to reflect about the world and how they think. This isn’t meant to be altruistic, though. I just find this meaningful, because people and their thinking just seem to be the most fundamental axis on which the world works (if not for that, then what would we have?). I’ve also just learned so much from people and interacting with them, and I value that immensely. 

Yes. To me there is nothing so fascinating as people. And what we have here is either a Badger primary, or a very Badgery Paragon Lion. 

That said, and maybe this is funny, I’m also a little shy. Or maybe that’s not the word: I’m reluctant to enter a conversation; I prefer to observe because it takes me time to figure out precisely what I’m thinking and want to say (spontaneity is not my favourite thing…). 

Normally not liking spontaneity would make me say ‘not Lion secondary.’ But I’m not sure. I think you may just be a quieter, more deliberate Lion secondary. 

This has also generally been true for most settings. I like preparation, and I’m usually at my best when I’m ready to some degree (and not too much, because if I go to the point of rehearsal, I obsess too much over controlling and being…well, perfect).  

Interesting. “Too much preparation screws me up” is something I see with Lions and Badgers. (Birds will tell you there’s no such thing as too much preparation, Snakes will tell you that preparation will make them less able to see the moment for what it really is.) 

When I’m in a difficult spot, I can only work my way through it by thinking it out completely. I need to make sense of what happened, to whatever degree I can manage, or else it will gnaw at me. 

This is a bit general. I could see any secondary writing this - even someone like a Snake, although they’d probably mean something very different by “thinking it out completely” than a Bird would. 

I can struggle a lot with letting go of something; I’m trying to learn, because I can see how it makes sense in some scenarios. If the situation involves a conflict with someone, I don’t need to talk it out with them for a resolution; often, it’s enough if I grasp what was motivating them and what they were trying to express in that moment. 

One thing about Lion secondaries is absolutely their tendency to go “okay, so we’re doing this NOW. No we’re not changing the subject. No we’re not coming back to this later.” And while I do kind of love them for it, and BOY does it make for some great fictional characters, you’re right in that it’s not... always the way to go, in real life. 

I do have some lines, though, which when crossed will affect my affection for the person, about which I do talk out loud. When it comes to things that are uncontrollable, (like natural disaster, to pick a random example), and no thinking will help anything, I turn to people for comfort, to remind myself there are still other good things around. 

Lion is still possible, but I’m leaning Badger for you. Honestly because you seem... a little mellow for a Double Lion, and the lion secondary is absolutely coming through. 

More broadly, in general, I struggle with doing anything I have no interest in.

Kind of just a people thing, but Bird secondaries are especially good at just sort of *making* themselves interested in things, which kind of feels like a superpower to me. 

 I’ve noticed that I can develop an interest even in things I previously felt utterly disinterested in (again, often because of perspectives people offer) and then do it willingly. But otherwise, I’m not good with completing tasks that are need-to-do/might offer something in which I don’t find any meaning (or even a job in which I can’t find value). 

When you’ve talked about the things you find value in, it’s been - people, understanding people, helping people understand themselves. So even though you are using Lion primary language here, I’m going to double down on Badger.

I think this might be all I have to offer for now? I hope it’s enough! thanks for reading it, in advance!

 Yours,

Hey, there! So, I've known my primary for a while now (Badger Primary) but I've been a little bit all over the place with my secondary. Was hopin' for a little help.

The one I'm positive I'm not is a Lion Secondary. I have a Double Lion best friend, and I could NEVER be as blunt as she is, and I'd never tell her this, but I honestly wouldn't want to. Lol! Being honest is an incredibly important thing to be, but there's a difference, at least in my mind, between honesty and saying the first thing that comes to your mind without letting it go through at least a little editing first.

Gotta keep the intended audience in mind.

Yeah, not sounding like a Lion secondary. And I'm kind of thinking Deliberate secondary for you (Bird or Snake.) What you're doing doesn't actually seem *automatic.*

For Bird, there's a possibility. I'm seen as very anxious, and I find new situations pretty stressful.

I mean, anyone can be anxious... and especially if it's a VERY new situation - that can be a lot for anybody.

I love collecting knowledge, and I always have an assortment of fun facts at hand that I've tirelessly collected over the years. It's a fun thing for me, and I enjoy doing it. I was also seen as very "intellectual" in school (which I know is not a requirement for being a Bird or a clear indication of being one, but I figured I'd mention it.) Loved school and loved learning, and I still love learning in my adulthood.

The issue is that, when the chips are down, and it's actually time to solve a problem, I tend to just kinda freeze mentally. The way Bird Secondaries are described, it's like, when a problem happens, they pull on a tool they've created for the situation, and then BOOM, they're using it to handle it.

Birds are good at retrofitting old tools to new situations, it's true. But I don't think I talk enough about what happens when a Bird just... comes up with nothing. And I think the answer is they start looking like a Lion secondary, kind of flailing around.

(I also think that *young* Bird secondaries have a way of looking kind of like Lions, because they haven't had an opportunity to build their tools yet.)

When bad things happen, my mind goes blank. I just kinda start doing stuff, anything. Sure, I might remember something important, like some specific training, but for the most part, my brain goes blank and I go into autopilot.

I don't know *how* bad we're talking here. But if you're in full on SURVIVAL mode, this is where the fight/flight/freeze/fawn kicks in. The reason training gets drilled in like that is so it *stays* when your brain isn't working. I've always found that the really intense stuff feels very quiet, and very dreamlike in the moment, and the emotions don't kick in until later. But the point is... that's not SHC stuff.

So far, you read as someone with a fun Bird model that you love, but your problem-solving is probably coming from somewhere else. (Or possibly it's Burnt...)

For Badger Secondary, I think that's the secondary I wish I could be, but I don't think I am. I have ADHD, so being meticulous and thoughtful are just... absolutely exhausting to me.

It might look a little different, but you can 100% be a Badger secondary with ADHD.

I was raised in a family that really pushed always being a Badger Secondary, forget about yourself, help others, others' problems are more pressing than your own.

Oooh that's not a Badger secondary family. What you're describing here is an Exploded Badger primary culture. And if you're a Badger primary yourself... I bet that got confusing.

(100% your family might have ALSO have required Badger secondaries from everyone, I would think that's likely. So I'll keep that in mind.)

Part of me didn't believe it, but much of me still does. I like to help, I want to help, but I'm also Badger Primary, which can feed that want. Secondary is about what you naturally do to serve what you want, and I'm not sure if Badger Secondary is right. But, I do try to be there for people. My natural instinct when someone is in danger is to protect and comfort them, I'm very focused on the mental/emotional state of the victim more than anything else.

Gee, you write like you're a rescue worker or a firefighter. (And a Badger primary.)

When in any kind of conflict at work, I want to soothe them, to calm them down, and I try to become what I think they might want me to be to help them calm down, but it doesn't always work. Part of me also always wants to tell those people fuck it, you caused your own problem, you're on your fucking own. Lol. And it would feel good to tell them that. I wish more tough love was accepted in the world, generally. I would feel like I could breathe more.

Okay, there's a lot going on here. You "become what I think they might want me to be" which is - Deliberate. And more Snake than Bird, because of the whole one-face-per-person thing. (It not working all the time is neither here nor there, you're human, you'll make the wrong call sometimes.)

But... you like the idea of a more tough-love Lion secondary approach. "I would feel like I could breathe more." And there's something about the Badger secondary that you like... maybe it's that "No, you move" energy.

As for Snake Secondary... this one might be it. Only problem is... I kind of don't want it to be? I know there's a whole thing about not letting go stereotypes get in the way, but I want to be the person I pretend to be, I guess. I want to be a Badger Secondary, but I'm afraid I'm a Snake Secondary because, from experience, people do not like you when you behave the way you truly want to. They shun you.

"Behave the way you truly want to."

Okay, let's unpack that.

The face-changing guys (Snake and Bird) want to be behave that way. They are authentic, in that their face-changing is consensual. Same thing with a Courtier Badger, with the caveat that their face-changing isn't as much of a deliberate choice. But it's still something that they want to do.

They can all run into situation where their face-changing is forced on them (becomes non-consensual) and is therefore inauthentic. This is a separate issue from the Lion secondary "eh, I'm going to rub some people the wrong way just by existing, comes with the territory, whatever." And I don't know which one is you.

If I wanna speak more "bluntly," not like my friend, but just more plainly, feel more like ME and less like a persona, people find me too negative, too sarcastic, I speak for too long, or I'm somehow either too passionate or dispassionate and I'm never ENOUGH either way. The performance is tiring. I want to be free to be me, but the true me isn't particularly good at anything.

Oh you're Burnt. I'm so sorry.

Because what you are talking about here is neurodivergent masking. (Which is totally different from Snake masking, I'm sorry the words are the same, I know it's confusing.)

'Too negative' shows up when you don't know if a comment is appropriate to the conversation or not. 'Too sarcastic' happens when you make a joke that doesn't land. 'Speaking for too long' - hyperfixations. 'Too passionate' - probably hypersensitivity. 'Too dispassionate' - possibly a flat affect, or a tendency to shut down.

Now I do not diagnose people here. That is impossible and unethical. But I can say that it sounds like you're masking all the time and that is exhausting. Especially especially for a Badger primary who needs communities they feel safe in, basically to exist.

I promise, I promise, I promise that there are communities out there where you can take off the mask.

I try to be who people want me to be, I try to be the puzzle piece that fits best in the world's puzzle, and I fail at that. I'm never quite what they're looking for.

It sounds like you're desperately trying to model Courtier Badger secondary, and it's hurting you.

Too clumsy, too forgetful, too focused on unimportant things, and I ultimately can't keep up the facade, the cracks begin to show that I'm a fraud and this put-together, organized person is absolutely NOT who I am, and I am shunned.

So you've built yourself a Bookkeeper Badger model. In order to keep your life organized. Good. But then you're guilty and like, sort of imposter-syndrome about the fact that this isn't your entire personality, that this isn't *enough*

Then, I try to be myself. More funny, more sarcastic, slightly more blunt, just slightly, just enough to reveal the passionate and opinionated person I am underneath. I woukd never want to actually hurt anyone's feelings, but I have to air out the things I truly feel every once in a while. I have to be me.

Sorry to break it to you, but you're a lion secondary. And you're plenty likable.

But, at least in some circles, I scare people away. Like it's sudden whiplash in the differences between my two personalities. Those I meet while trying to be my put-together persona are usually really turned off by the more real, true me. They usually don't get me, think my interests are weird, or that I'm just too intense (hearing Angelica Schuyler describe herself in Hamilton the first time... I'd never felt more seen by a character in something EVER. Some men say that I'm intense or I'm insane. Lol!)

Angelica's a pretty loud Lion secondary.

Now, I know to some degree it's my own Lion primary talking, but I read this and think "that sounds like a them problem." I know that having a Badger primary is going to make thinking that way harder, and having an Exploded Badger family culture is going to make it even harder than that.

But, I don't know what to tell you. You sound fun to hang out with. And there's a reason Badger Lion is the Protagonist sorting, and the Starfleet Officer sorting. People *like* them.

Well, anyway, that was a long winded way to ask for some help. Lol! Were you able to pick up on any clues? Thanks so much if you even attempted to read this! Lol.

Hi, Wisteria!! I remember reading that you're a teacher, so I hope that the school year is going well! If you have time (I know your inbox is packed), I'd love some input on what my sorting might be. I can convince myself of anything -- most days, I'm certain I'm a double badger, but there are times when I think I could be an idealist with a badger-flavored system, or even a snake that *wants* to be a badger.

Childhood experiences that come to mind... I tended to be the ringleader of the neighborhood kids. 

Classically, this points me at Lion secondary (who naturally build armies) or Badger secondary (who naturally build communities.) 

I came up with the games, made sure people were included, and organized people (proudest kindergarten moment: getting my whole class to join hands and yell "POWER RANGERS, MYSTIC FORCE!"). When a neighbor girl broke her ankle, I went door to door, rallying the troops so we could all visit and comfort her. 

You do use the metaphor of an army... but all the examples are so soft and Badgery... which isn’t to say that Badger secondaries have to be soft... 

I’m thinking about that “[I] made sure people were included” part though. Because that’s getting into values, Badger primary values. I’m wondering if you might not be a Badger Lion, actually. 

I was also possessive of my friends, I'd get jealous when they'd talk about friends from school or feel incredibly hurt if I wasn't invited to something. 

Oh this is interesting. Because this sounds like an immature Badger primary who doesn’t want to even be reminded of groups they’re not part of. I wonder if you were aware of a very clear in group/out group when you were younger. And if you didn’t... Snake with a huge inner circle is also a possibility.

I was protective of my loved ones and stood up to bullies on their behalf. 

I’m liking Lion secondary for you. And Loyalist primary. 

I grew out of the jealousy as I got older, learning that I couldn't be everything to everyone and that I needed more than one best friend, so my friends could have other besties too. 

Maybe Snake primary? With this focus on BEST friends... which young Snakes do care a LOT about...

I'm not sure exactly when it started, but there came a point when I just... withdrew. I stopped inviting people over, stopped playing at recess. It was a lonely time, but I found solace in books and movies. Harry, Ron, and Hermione; Percy, Annabeth, and Grover; The Avengers; Han Solo and Princess Leia... they became my best friends. I'd create elaborate stories in which I became part of their world. In these stories, some higher power would send me to a fictional world, in which I already knew the plot and could help the main characters avoid pitfalls and save people from their scripted deaths. I also had healing powers, where I could touch someone and take all their pain (physical or emotional) on myself. 

Hmm. Now this is a very Badger secondary fantasy, I think, with that focus on literally absorbing other’s pain and being able to FIX it (it’s very relatable, is what it is.) Which makes me think that your “withdrawal” from life... could probably be described as your Lion secondary burning. And then maybe you’re putting a Badger secondary model over the top to keep functioning? It happens. 

This retreat into fictional worlds was sparked, I think, by moving schools and problems at home. 

This would be really, really hard on a Loyalist. 

My parents had a difficult marriage, and I took it on myself to be my mom's confidant and best friend. I was also my sibling's caregiver (they have some disabilities) and took my responsibilities toward them very seriously. 

Yeah, that is some serious, heavy Badger secondary. And I’m going to say it’s probably a model, because you talk about as though it’s this external thing - “I took it upon myself” “responsibilities.” 

My dad was a stifling presence-- everything had to be his way. He'd call himself "the general" and say that our job wasn't to ask questions: when he said jump, we'd say "how high?" Expressing my thoughts to him never mattered, so I'd just squash them. 

That’s brutal. That would be especially brutal on a young Lion secondary, and I would not be surprised if that contributed to your Lion secondary Burning. 

My solace in all of this was my mom, she knew exactly how it felt to be dominated by him and we'd often hold hands through his tirades, comforting each other through it. They finally got divorced when I was in high school. 

It is not - and it was not - your responsibility to be your Mom’s confidant, best friend, and emotional support. It’s just simply not a job that you actually had the ability to do, especially starting (it sounds like) in MIDDLE school. But it’s something that you tried to do, using a Badger secondary skillset. I’ve been there.

For years, my biggest fear had been that I'd have to choose between them. 

THE loyalist primary dilemma. 

But my dad ended up making that choice for me -- his behaviors spiraled out of control, and I had to run away from him. 

You throw that in so casually, but that’s a HUGE thing. And sure, if the circumstances were extreme enough, that could have been any secondary... but all things being equal that’s sounding like a Lion secondary solution. 

As time passed, truths about his past came to light. My mom and I found out about years of abuse that he'd heaped upon other women in his life. With those discoveries, I decided to cut him out of my life. It wasn't necessarily because it was the "right" or "moral" thing, I still feel guilty about it sometimes, but it was because of the pain he'd inflicted on other people. I couldn't reconcile his love for me with how he treated other people in my life, with how he viewed the world. 

Oh. OH. Badger Lion. Badger Lion ALL THE WAY. All that focus on communities? And I bet, in that moment, it didn’t feel like the ‘right’ or ‘moral’ thing because it felt like the ONLY thing you COULD do. 

I spent several months in a foreign country on a service mission. Though I'd always dreamed of other worlds, being so far from home hurt badly. I was constantly worried about my mom and sibling. Our dog died while I was gone, and that grief was made so much worse by the separation. I wanted to be there for them, but we were thousands of miles apart. 

Badger primary. They don’t like being separated from their people. 

A lot of aspects of mission life were difficult for me -- there was pressure to achieve certain numbers and statistics rather than truly ministering to living, breathing people. 

Oh I bet both your Badger primary AND Lion secondary HATED that.

My goal was just to provide service and love, which didn't always coincide with those in authority. 

That classic Lion secondary always has a bit of a rebel streak. Always has a tendency to butt up against those in authority, which we are seeing here with the mission administration (and previously, with your father.)

More random thoughts/details: I have a bleeding heart for animals and want to be a vegetarian (can't at home, so it'll have to be when I move out). 

Badger primary. 

I am incredibly indecisive and find it so hard to trust myself-- choosing a major has been a nightmare.

Burnt lion secondary. (It does seem like it’s getting better though.) 

My past experience predicts that if someone likes me, just wait: they'll find out the truth somehow, that I've fooled them, that I'm not who they think I am, and then they'll leave me. 

I mean, objectively you’ve had groups of fantastic friends, who adored you, and who you had to move away from. What this seems (apart from some just general human being abandonment issues) is the angst of a burnt Lion secondary who thinks that they have to layer on the Badger REAL thick in order to be acceptable and liked. Lion secondaries are intense, they are, and sometimes they do rub some people the wrong way. (And inspire intense loyalty in others.) 

Happiness, for me, would look like having a comfortable and happy home, taking care of the people I love, writing a book, contributing to the community, and just living a peaceful, quiet life. I just want to love, be loved, heal people, bring peace…

A beautiful Badger primary fantasy. 

What do you think? I feel a Badger secondary in there, and probably a charred primary. Loyalist? Idealist? Thanks for your time and patience, if you have any follow-up questions, I'll do my best to answer them. -- Rih

Hi! Thank you for all the awesome content on your blog!! I’m super stuck on my sorting (primaries and secondaries) and thought you might be able to help?? I pretty quickly ruled out Bird - while I can understand building your morality system from logic, it doesn’t feel right, and I know I’m much more people and instinct based. I love reading, but very much for stories, not often knowledge for knowledge sake. 

A fiction vs nonfiction preference doesn’t really give me a clue to your primary. (Actually, the way you phrased this is mostly making think that you’re not a *bird* secondary, who can attach a lot of important to “knowledge for the sake of knowledge.”) 

Likewise for secondaries, I’m not a big fan of pre planning - it often bores me, and I struggle to do preparation for work tasks. I find I often simply don’t stick to plans I set for myself without outside accountability, so they feel a bit pointless (cf revision plans as a kid). I do like planning for say, a holiday itinerary, but I also like to keep lots of space for flexibility, and tend through life to enjoy spontaneity and surprising myself. 

So far, I’m really thinking an in-the-moment secondary for you (Lion or Snake) … and I’m kinda leaning snake. That bouncing-of-things-for-fun while in a new place feels snake.

So! Not Bird, I don’t think. 

Agreed.

 A lot of pointers seem to indicate Badger. I like being part of communities - whether that be my sports team, the experience living in a town where my friends were all close to hand, 

ooooh I think you may be a Badger primary.

or just day to day chatting to someone new in the street and being like - hi, fellow person! 

Whatever secondary you have, you’re going to be the most social version. 

I love the fact that fan communities exist, I enjoy the idea of people banding together around something they love, it all feels quite me. I really admire people who create something that others can share in. 

Badger primary. 

I also am quite people focused in how I approach problems - if I’m struggling with something, I avoid it a little (although I’m aware that’s not good) 

Hmmm. I mean avoidance is just it’s own thing, but Lions do have a tendency to just ignore the problem… maybe…?

but then my first approach will often be to reach out to the people I care about and get their insights on the problem. It doesn’t mean I’ll act as they say, but it’s often my first port of call to seek out their advice and talk a problem through. 

This is a Lion or a Snake with a Badger secondary model. The more improvisational secondaries sometimes get stuck, because what they really like is *responding* to things. So, you do the Badger secondary thing, and get some input from the people around you… but are not especially swayed by what they have to say. That’s not badger, that’s using Badger to get some fuel to get that Lion or Snake secondary  (both famously stubborn in their own ways) going. 

Likewise I do want everyone to like me (I know I know), 

The “I want everyone to like me thing,” is just a person thing (which you know is impossible/unhealthy/all that jazz.) But it does hit Badger primaries especially hard. 

and will slightly shape myself to achieve that - but I do not enjoy doing this, however necessary it sometimes feels in order to make sure I’m liked.

Basically this is telling me that you have a model (probably a Badger model) that you don’t really like. Underneath the Badger model could theoretically be anything (even an actual Badger secondary.) But in your case I’m thinking it’s probably Lion. I haven’t seen any evidence of a prep-work secondary so far, and I’m guessing that if you were a Snake secondary, then you’d probably have an easier time just using People-Pleasing Snake. 

 I’m also better at external accountability than internal 

What an interesting thing to say. 

- if I’m doing something for someone else, I’ll get it done, if for myself, ehhhh maybe. 

That is the way of the Badger. Both primary and secondary, honestly. 

I’m also quite envious of a (badger) friend of mine who has a group of friends that organise a bunch of social events and have built themselves a lil hive of a community in the big city we live in. 

That sounds like the Badger primary dream. Of course you want that. 

I also looked after a lot of friends and a few acquaintances in sixth form / uni who were struggling, and got validation from that helper/carer role, but it sorta burned me out (burned Badger??) and I ended up drawing a line. 

Badgers struggle with boundaries, it’s a thing. And what I’m hearing is…. more about that Badger secondary model. You formed it because it made you feel validated, and it made you feel like a good person and it made it easy to be liked… but then you wore it too long, and got burnt out. And seriously, being a caregiver is an exhausting thing to do. 

(A Burned Badger primary is more like - it’s unsafe/stupid/impossible to care about the whole community, so I’m going to pick a handful of people to be my new community. You also tend to get a lot of dehumanization with Burnt Badgers, ‘I don’t HAVE to care about them, they don’t count for xyz reasons.’)

But what’s not that burned is 

Yeah, you know this. 

I felt way happier after I did this - the year after was one of my favourites ever - and better because I wasn’t carrying a lot of other people’s burdens. And ever since I’ve done this a lot less - I’ll of course talk through and support close friends if struggling, but I don’t do seek out doing so for people outside that, and that feels like the right thing for me. So could be burned? But if so I think it’s good it burned because that wasn’t very sustainable? So I’m not sure.

Absolutely not burnt. You were actively going and finding people to problems to help (when you didn’t have the bandwidth yourself?) Sounds like coping mechanism to me. One that you ended up not needing anymore, so good for you.

However, what makes Badger hard is I know three pretty clear badgers in my life (my mum and two close friends) and there’s some areas fundamental to it that I don’t seem to have: (a) abiding by rules, (b) believing rules matter in of themselves © an unwillingness to cut corners, belief in the proper method to do something 

Okay, that’s Badger secondary. You’re not Badger secondary. You might model it (or heck even perform it) but that absolutely is not you. 

trusting in authority 

Hmm. I wouldn’t call this a specifically Badger thing. It can be - Immature Badgers will often turn themselves into photocopies of authority figures. But, over the course of these write ups, I’ve noticed that the people who struggle the most with whether or not to trust authority are actually Idealists. Especially Burnt Lions or Burnt/Exploded Birds. 

and sorta general belief in the best in everyone and general politeness - this last one sounds a little odd, but both of my friends will keep talking to guys/strangers even after they show what I see as red flags, whilst if I get a bad instinct about someone, I’m outta there. That’s not from horrible prior experience, I just trust my instincts I guess, and I don’t put politeness above that. 

More Badger secondary stuff. That sort of general polite, unthreatening niceness is a classic Badger secondary tool, and it can absolutely get you out of sticky situations - mostly by making sure no one gets angry/unpredictable. But it’s not the Lion secondary way. 

Likewise with rule following, I don’t really believe in rules innately. I’m nervous I’ll get caught if I break the rules, but I don’t feel like it’s bad in of itself. This is however, partly shaped by a family dynamic which apart from my mum that is pretty Snake. 

It is absolutely true that young (or immature) Badger secondary usually get really intense about following all the rules. But there are just bad rules out there, that’s not even controversial or wild to say. Thinking about if rules are good or bad (helpful or harmful, useful are not useful) is just a good skill to have.  

And it makes sense that you learned this young if you’ve got a strong Snake secondary authority influence… but that is absolutely making me double down on Lion for you personally. 

And with cutting corners, I like to work hard but only if it has purpose - if there is a quicker way of achieving something, I would take it. And I don’t work for work’s sake I don’t think (though I do sometimes feel quite guilty about that). Which does sound a bit - dare I say it - lion?

yeah…

 I trust my instincts, about people and situations. I hate going against what the people in my life want, but I also hate going against my own instinct about a situation. 

Badger primary vs Lion secondary fight! 

(it happens. My Lion primary and badger secondary fight all the time.) 

I often find it hard to tell what I think, and I have the feeling that other people’s opinions are intruding on how I feel about something, and I try to push them out my head briefly to work it out. I’ve started really enjoying going on solo holidays because it’s fun, and a relief somehow, and I feel like it’s allowed me to figure out what I actually want, rather than pre-catering for what the other person wants. 

While it’s possible that there’s a Lion primary under a Badger primary model that you really quite love… I’m thinking that this is a story about a Badger primary learning to find boundaries, and learning to make time for self care… when you didn’t have access to either of those things, not too long ago. 

That said though, I’m the one who seeks out my loved one’s views when I’m stuck on things so like, clearly I do seem to strongly value their opinions (?). Eh.

The little qualifiers! The ‘?’ the ‘eh.’ It’s just a model. It’s a tool that sometimes you use. 

Also don’t know if relevant, but whenever I’m in big friend groups I tend to make close 1-1 relationships with a few people, and while I like the feeling of being in the wider group, my investment is very much in the couple of individuals I’m particularly close with. 

I want to say that’s just how it goes for Badgers? You like the group, the group is important and nice and feels safe, but you still have your favorites. 

Big fan of 1-1 friendships as a rule! Partly because we discuss things more honestly and more at depth. And also - this is bad - but 1-1 I can be closer to my actual self, and know what they want me to be, but in big groups I can’t please everyone, and I don’t like the attempt of it. 

A couple things here. 

It seems like you like the authenticity of one-on-on relationships, which would definitely make sense if you’re a Lion who wants to be their actual self. Trying to essentially model Courtier Badger for a big group is a lot. 

But you also talk about ‘knowing who they want me to be’ and consciously changing to accommodate, which is sounding really Snake secondary again. You seem to feel a little more positively about this way of doing things than the ‘polite’ Badger thing. Knowing that you have a mom with a strong Snake secondary, I would probably say that you might even specifically modeling *her* Snake. 

 If I had to say to you what matters most to me it would probably be - myself and the people I care most about. If I had to hurt a stranger to help my family I would, but only if I felt that was what my family wanted. 

“I would hurt a stranger if it seemed in the best interests of the group.” That’s some (very honest) Badger. 

But Snake feels quite far from me because almost none of the other traits seem to track. I never see people as means to an end really - I very much see them as ends in themselves 

“People are people and that matters,” is a primary thing (A Badger primary thing) while “People are a useful way to solve problems” is a secondary thing (usually a Bird or Snake secondary thing.) It’s really helpful when you’re sorting yourself (or other people) to make sure you haven’t got methods and motives muddied up. 

for example my sister (very Snake) giggled at me for coming back from a first therapy session and saying “oh she’s so nice, she’s worried about her kids at school today”, aka, I find my way to make conversation two-way even in a situation like therapy! 

which is normal these days? This isn’t the 1950s style where you’re just supposed to talk and the psychiatrist is silent taking notes the whole time. A LOT of people feel a LOT more comfortable if they have a relationship with their therapist. I can’t really tie any of that back to sorting.

I do enjoy being flexible and adaptable but I always forget to think enough about a situation to manipulate anyone, and end up just saying what’s actually on my mind.

… lion. Also I love the phrasing of “forget to manipulate.” Like you can, that’s a skillset you have, you mostly just… don’t.

So anyway! Please do let me know if there’s any leaning you can see. I feel like perhaps Badger primary and Lion secondary, but a not very confident lion perhaps? Or I think maybe my brain has been all twisted by other people’s moralities so I’m confused about what’s left? who knows man?? Any insight appreciated!!

hi, i’d really appreciate it if you could help sort me because i think that both my primary and secondary are either burnt or i’ve just overanalyzed this since all of the descriptions for the houses seem relatable to some extent. i’ll start with the secondary. i don’t particularly enjoy using any method of the secondaries.

Burnt secondary? Lots of models?

i honestly can’t even find a pattern from the things that have worked best for me. the best things in my life always happened when i wasn’t forcing anything, they just sort of fell into place, so i just feel like i’ve had luck?

Hmm. “Just lucky I guess” is usually a description of a Snake secondary… but it’s not really a way Snake secondaries describe themselves. That’s more the perspective of someone outside looking in. It’s possible that you just haven’t thought much about your methods before?

i have to do lists for the day and week, since it definitely calms me down when i know clearly what im supposed to accomplish in a day, but beyond that i don’t make plans.

The way this is famed as something you “have” to do that “calms you down,” - basically an anti-anxiety tactic - makes me think it’s probably a support system. I’m gong with Bird secondary model for now.

i don’t even know how i solve problems? i am both confrontational and non-confrontational haha. i never want to leave things unsaid and not explain myself properly to people.

That’s Lion (actually, maybe that’s why you don’t know how you solve problems. The classic Lion secondary just jumps in and reacts.) Even this idea of the on/off of confrontational/non-confrontational is very Lion.

when it comes to other problems that aren’t people-related i guess i’m quick and can come up with a solution on the spot.

Improvisational secondary.

i def relate to snake bc i do think it’s a luxury to be able to be fully myself in front of people.

That is a tremendously Lion way of conceptualizing snake. “Oh I get Snake, they’re acting all the time, but what they REALLY want is to be able to feel safe enough to go into neutral.” A snake loves the masks. A snake *is* the masks.

i’ve also been told i’m really stubborn.

Lion.

i tell the occasional white lie, as in, i might soften my criticisms to not offend ppl, or i make up an excuse for why i cant go out if i’d rather stay at home. i would never lie about important things like my beliefs and misrepresent myself, or about anything that has actual serious consequences. but, if i really wanted to, or i’m really pressed, i usually have no problem with coming up with something on the spot (and i’m not proud of it, in fact, i don’t like myself for it).

Lions *can* lie (it’s really only in fiction that you get the Absolutely Incapable of Lying Lion.) They just… really really don’t like it. It make them feel sticky.

i’m definitely known to be smart and hardworking and kind, because i do genuinely do the work and finish what i start, but i don’t know if i find any particular enjoyment in it? sure, it feels nice to be honest and to see things through, but i also don’t mind doing things another way.

Again, you focused in on the most Lion-y part of a Badger secondary, and said that’s what “feels nice.” Other than that, sounds like a useful Badger model. Really common.

i do care about disappointing the people who have a good opinion of me though.

A Badger primary? Don’t want to disappoint the community?

A lot of Badger primaries do feel the pull to match their group (rather than make the group match them) but you have SUCH a loud Lion secondary I’m not surprised you’ve avoided this particular issue. You don’t read as Burned to me, at all. The only part of your sorting that you don’t seem to actively love is a sort of begrudging “oh FINE, I guess I’ll do it, it’s USEFUL” Badger secondary model.

And yeah, I guess it’s possible you’re a Paragon Lion (who look like Badgers a lot of the time). But I still think Badger primary, because you frame your cause almost entirely in terms of groups. I didn’t know what kind of activism you even did until your follow-up ask, when you mentioned ‘mental health accessibility’ one time. You wrote a lot, and almost all of it was about the specific groups of people you were trying to help. A big reason you moved away from making informational films was because you didn’t like how removed the film world was, you wanted to be hands on with people. That is something I could really see bugging a Badger, but Lion... not necessarily.  

Don't feel too bad. I didn't have any rules posted so you really had no way of knowing that it is a sensitive topic for me. I usually can manage anything with a bit of warning, so I just need to make sure that in future I'd get that. You ended up exposing a fix I needed to make on my blog. I enjoy answering everyone's questions and fixing things so they're set up to avoid emotional messes hopefully will make the process more enjoyable for everyone. Thanks for being patient as I adjust things ^.^

Link to part 1

Yeah, I can see why the mask might make you think they would have a different Secondary. But the way that it took everything falling apart for him to realize anything was wrong is a very Lion mood. Especially since he just kept doing the same thing until his problem was solved. That's Lion Secondary. What probably happened was that the community backlash caused it to Burn, and the performance of normality is a Katnis Everdean style freeze that Lion Secondaries can do when they no longer trust their methods.

While an argument can be made for Bird Primary I don't think the character is one. 1) the immediate course correct in response to community feedback is a very Badger Primary thing. 2) The inciting incident was him leaping in to save a girl being victimized. He saw that she was in trouble and immediately needed to help her. Badger Lion is called the Protagonist sorting because they can't do nothing when they see someone in need. Which fits with what the character was trying to do, even though he went about it the wrong way.

As for not feeling remorse, any of the Primaries can become merciless and brutal but each takes a different journey to get there. A Lion who's Cause/instincts do not emphasize mercy can become a Templar. A Bird who's Truth/systems don't care about people can become someone who runs others through monsterous experiments to provide new data points. A Snake who's Circle/people include only themselves can turn their back on the world as it goes up in flames. While a Badger who doesn't see people as people, who sees them as NPC enemies, can fight to the bitter end to remove the threat to their community.

Final thoughts, definitely a Badger Primary Lion Secondary who's Secondary Burns when they realize they were in the wrong.