#doc chat

Separating these asks out from the next batch and posting them alone because it kind of turned into a big post on its own.

thefinalwraith asked:

Do you really think Vriska, had she been victorious, would have spared either Eridan or Gamzee? Aside from Aradia (which Vriska seems to regard as evening the score), Vriska appears to react strongly when people try to murder her.

That seems like a bit of an understatement, really.

I don't know. I think at that point, Vriska was, probably for the first time in her life, the least likely troll in the room to murder someone.

While she has been responsible for countless deaths of trolls in the past, what we have seen was her manipulating them into walking off of the ledge and into Spidermom's waiting mouth. Vriska, while instrumental in their death, was not actually the physical force that ended their lives. She could, and presumably did, emotionally separate from those deaths because of it.

She essentially had a meltdown after killing Tavros, because she killed her first troll. She did. Not a conveniently placed giant spider. It doesn't seem like much of a distinction, but apparently it's one Vriska made for herself. I dont think it was terribly REAL to Vriska that her actions could have irreversible consequences until she killed Tavros. Even when she killed Aradia (once again, by proxy!), she thought she could fix it because SOMEHOW Aradia stayed around.

And that troll was also a friend of hers (as much as Vriska HAS friends.) One that she considered to be out of bounds as food for Spidermom. So She kills her frist troll with her own hands, and it was a friend, of sorts. Vriska was definitely shaken. Those logs with John before the showdown are an example of that. For the first time she expresses a lot of doubts in herself and her abilities to deal with it.

At the same time, she didn't have the ties towards those two that she may have had for some other trolls (regardless of roleplaying with Eridan in the past). I don't think she would have hesitated to fight them at all. If it came down to it, I dont think she would hesitate to kill them. Even with the new self awareness that she received after slaughtering Tavros. 

I don't know that she would SO quickly run into murdering another troll though. Maybe she would have killed both of them, I wouldn't have been surprised. If she knocked one out versus murdering them though, I don't know if she would kill them after they were essentially no longer a threat. I do think Vriska being the victor would have been the best chance for more than one troll surviving though. (bearing in mind that I didn't know Kanaya was about to have her Moment.)

thefinalwraith asked: 2012-06-07 00:50

Also it might be a good idea to reexamine the pesterlog between Vriska and Doc Scratch, right before Vriska killed Aradia.

aaaa this seems like something I dont want to do NOTHING GOOD CAN COME OF REEXAMINING THINGS DOC SCRATCH PARTICIPATED IN.

Going to do that now~

I'm not sure why you have me reading this, actually. It doesn't seem super relevant to the story right now?

Unless you're having me reread this to convince me that Vriska would have slaughtered Gamzee and Eridan without a second thought? 

Because I uh. I still don't believe it. I'll say again that I dont know if she would have killed them, and I don't know if she WOULDN'T have, but Vriska is, for all the trolls she's been directly responsible for their deaths, not a mindless killing machine. (Let me reiterate that I do not absolve Vriska of all wrong doing and am completely aware that she has done terrible, TERRIBLE things. I think she has done more terrible things than any other troll has. Possibly more than several of the other trolls put together. )

Wow all this is doing (rereading this pesterlog) is solidifying some of my Doc Scratch dislike. Oops! I don't think that was your intention!?

http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004144 A link to the pesterlog before Vriska kills Aradia, for anyone wanting to read it.

Let me just

paste some bits of this conversation. I'm going to cut it up a lot and may not paste things in order, who knows. I suggest you read the above log if you need to refresh your memory on how it goes normally!

Let's just start this off with a reminder.

I don't lie.

Doc scratch does not lie. Everything he is saying is entirely factual.

Well? AG: Well what! I am surrounded 8y ghosts and kind of fre8king out a8out it! I know. I'm asking what you intend to do about it.

We could read this question as him being an interested observer, except he knows exactly what is going to happen. We can presume that he knows what would split a timeline, and knows the alternate timelines, and knows what this Vriska will do. With a little nudge.

I only ever place myself into positions of tangential involvement with events that will bring about my employer's entry into this universe. I oversee the events as they take place, and ever so slightly nudge them into motion when necessary.

He says as he is currently overseeing an event taking place, and nudging it into motion.

Does it matter? She brought them here to torment you. This obviously warrants revenge. You know you're going to anyway. You won't be able to help yourself.

Then why is he here, helping influence her into this choice?

AG: I don't have to do shit! AG: May8e I don't mind ghosts. May8e they'll 8e gr8 company once I get used to them! No, they are terrifying you.

She's terrified of the ghosts right now. Doc Scratch doesn't lie. She doesn't know what to do, and she's terrified. When he asked her what she was going to do:

AG: I don't know, I guess I will just curl into a little 8all and cry and hope they go aw8y! AG: Is that what you want to hear you sick f8ck???????? Aren't you going to kill her? AG: Who???????? Your friend. The one who summoned the spirits. AG: Will that make them go away?

Killing Aradia hadn't occurred to her. Doc Scratch is there helping plant the idea. Vriska is terrified, let's remember, and read that last line again. She's still a kid and has no idea what to do, talking to a puppet turned cueball head who has been alive for millenia (??) and knows everything. Including what nudges need to be made to have certain actions take place.

That's not how I work. AG: Oh really, well you seemed pretty excited a8out killing Tavros too. AG: And you even helped! So I guess that is how you work after all. Not really. All I did was stand somewhere for a few minutes. I just gave you an opportunity to do something you wanted to do anyway.

Lines like this are some of the ones that were irritating me about Doc Scratch already. It is such a complete shift of blame that it drives me bananas. While Vriska is responsible for her own actions and isn't blameless, neither is Doc scratch if he's been helping nudge things in various directions. I gave you time alone with someone you're not emotionally rational about, in a location that is extremely precarious, probably after verbally prodding you to make sure you were hardly in the most calm state of mind anyway (this is conjecture, obviously, based off of his actions in other times) but I am completely and totally absolved of blame.

It's like injecting an already volatile animal with something specifically to make them MORE volatile, and then blaming them for hurting someone after putting them alone in a room together. It's craaaaaaaap, Doc Scratch. Not ~really~ my foot.

You hated him, remember? AG: I know I did! I still do, I guess. I dunno. AG: 8ut I was never gonna kill these people. They were like, off limits I guess? AG: These games were just supposed to 8e fun and serve no other purpose!

Oops, there's the line about Vriska saying her flarping friends were off limits.

They were serving a very important purpose. AG: Yeah ok, you getting off on talking a girl into killing her 8uddies sure is important!

Well. Half of the code that created Doc Scratch was in the books of the four players, so I guess it was very important. I'm not sure why Tavros had to be injured for it, or Aradia (or Terezi), but apparently it served a purpose in getting that code together. (Note: I do notice that Vriska plays a bit of blame shifting game too, I'm not blind to it.)

AG: Yeah, 8ut I'm getting closer to 8eating you. You'll see. Look at that. The short amount of time I have reserved for arguing with a child has expired.

just another reminder that she is a child, and the fact that I laughed at this part. Doc Skeedaddled out of there awful fast when she said that.

Also for funsies: their last conversation has some interesting points in it, but maybe I will refrain from pasting 90% of it. 

http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004102

Bascially rereading that log made me go from "I don't really like Doc Scratch but think I'm being too hard on him," into "WOW I THINK HE IS THE MOST AWFUL CHARACTER. IT'S HIM, HE WINS." (sorry doc scratch fans. I respect that you like him, I just dont. MAYBE I WILL but I don't... feel bad for not giving him more of a chance. )

I just

at emotionally manipulate people/characters.

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