If you were curious, here's what went on the brief time the Octocon server was open. Below are some questions spun and some answers about when the shutdown is as well as how the application will behave post-shutdown.
Cycle of Questions
Why isn't Atlas just doing XYZ to keep the server up?
Atlas is not selling Octocon and a metric crap-ton of user data to anyone for safety reasons. Via the Discord, from Atlas:
You are not entitled to know the specifics of the shutdown. It was not an easy decision made on a whim. Via the Discord, from Atlas:
[Insert negative comment that someone typed in the channel here about Atlas not caring about people or something dumb]
That is not what the channel was for. You smell bad for saying that.
[Insert comment yelling at other people for being negative]
Also not what the channel was for. Appreciated, but not what it's for.
Why did the channel open?
To discuss logistics of the shutdown and help with export bugs.
Why did the channel close?
Atlas warned that an overly negative conversation would lead to the channel closing again, and so it did.
Will Octocon remain usable after the servers shut down in an offline mode?
No. Octocon was built to work online with online storage. All of the data will be deleted from Octocon's servers, and you should export your information as soon as you're able. When the shutdown is complete the app will not launch at all.
What kind of file will the export be? Will it be openable like just on our phone to see info? Or something else?
Using the /export function in Discord (or the eventual app-side export not yet released) supports JSON exports in two formats: one understood by PluralKit, and one that's Octo-specific. Atlas recommends making an export of both.
How long do people have to export their data?
The latest update to the app store provides export functionality to the apps off of Discord. Once the update is pushed, users will have two weeks from the date of the Update to export their data before the app shuts down.
My Plural-Kit import has bugs!!
A Plural-Kit dev spoke in the server that this is a PK-side issue actively being worked on:
Will this app ever be revived by Atlas if circumstances change?
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Many anti-endogenic systems will argue that DID & therefore systemhood is a trauma-based disorder at its core, and cannot exist without chronic childhood trauma. Let’s analyze that.
Disclaimer: This analysis ignores the existence of spiritual systems, as the crossroads between religion and psychology is very tricky to understand, and we believe we’re not qualified to write on that subject. This analysis also only covers the DID diagnosis itself, whether it applies to endogenic or traumagenic systems. It mentions but does not extensively cover systems without a DID diagnosis, which are valid in their own right and may have achieved functional multiplicity.
Let’s start at the basics: the criteria for DID according to the DSM-5. According to webmd.com, to diagnose DID, the patient must have:
“Two or more distinct identities or personality states are present, each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self.
Amnesia must occur, defined as gaps in the recall of everyday events, important personal information, and/or traumatic events.
The person must be distressed by the disorder or have trouble functioning in one or more major life areas because of the disorder.
The disturbance is not part of normal cultural or religious practices.
The symptoms cannot be due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (such as blackouts or chaotic behavior during alcohol intoxication) or a general medical condition (such as complex partial seizures).”
Points 4 and 5 focus on religion and drug use, which are going to be ignored for the sake of this analysis. It’s the first three points that play a key role in the diagnosis of DID, OSDD-1, and DDNOS.Â
Working backwards: point 3 says that the system’s plurality must be disordered to have the diagnosis. Therefore, any form of functional plurality is excluded from the diagnosis; despite this, functional multiplicity is often the goal of extensive therapy when diagnosed with a dissociative disorder. The reversing of the third point of the diagnosis is often the goal of treatment. However, when people state they want to reach full integration to obtain functional multiplicity, it’s often misunderstood. Integration is the process by which the amnesiac barriers between system members lower and communication between members strengthens, whereas fusion is the process where system members merge into one whole piece, essentially turning a system into a singlet over time (source 1, source 2, source 3). You may be able to tell that by achieving functional multiplicity, amnesia is lessened, following the reversing of point 2.Â
If we break up the previous paragraph, we can come up with a diagnostic criteria and treatment for plurality using the first three criteria:Â
DID is diagnosed when a person shows multiple identity states[1] that suffer with amnesia between them[2], resulting in heavy distress in their life[3].Â
Functional Multiplicity, which is achieved through integration (the lowering of amnesia barriers[2]), can lead to less distress[3] in a system’s life as their identity states work in better harmony[1].Â
Comically, none of the criteria itself uses the word “dissociative”, though the avenue of it will be pursued due to being in the name of the disorder. In traumagenic systems, yes, the dissociation is brought on by severe trauma. But what about endogenic systems who are diagnosed with DID? In these cases, it’s more likely that their system started spontaneously, naturally, or from some other cause; however it came about, originally, they were not distressed. A severe stressor happened later in life for these diagnosed endogenic systems: while that could be them encountering trauma, it could also be the stress of any natural disaster (or, in recent times, a certain pandemic). Dissociation could also happen as a result of anxiety or another mental illness. Dissociation itself is a coping mechanism for any stressor, and it’s important to know that, while trauma counts as a stressor, not all stressors equate to trauma.Â
As a final note, not all endogenic systems need to be diagnosed with DID to be valid, nor do all traumagenic systems need to be diagnosed. We ourselves are traumagenic, and we don’t want to be diagnosed with DID; we want to seek help to cope with past traumas we went through, as dealing with that is more important to us (and will likely be more effective for us) than dealing with our amnesiac barriers directly. Functional multiplicity exists, and a system is still a system, whether diagnosed or not.
A while ago one of our newer members, Jake, went into a bit of a frenzy. He discovered endogenic systems, and while the rest of us were accepting and encouraging, he wanted to find the "root of their plurality". We (as a collective) began conducting this survey with the hopes of learning what makes endogenic systems identify as such, and concluded with the answer that systems that are under the endogenic umbrella are valid no matter how they identify, as well as system origin not always relating to member origin.
The survey given was to learn more about the wider endogenic community and how they express their system origin. There is a lot of conflict between those that believe systems are only created through trauma, and those that identify as explicitly non-traumagenic. The survey aimed to look at the different origin identities across the plural community, and attempt to introduce a new theory behind plurality and identity states. While a theory was unable to be introduced, new questions are posed about both the external and internal demographics of and in systems, respectively.
We hope for this report and survey results to be beneficial to the community. There was a total of 86 participants, with many leaving either credited or anonymous testimony into how they function. Our hypothesis was presented in the paper, and proven true and false on various accounts. We hope you enjoy our 19-page rambling of the Theory of Structural Dissociation, its problems, the background of endogenic terms, the discussion of spirituality's importance to plurality, and the role neurodivergencies and physical illnesses play in systems.
A Study on the Origins of Endogenic Systems Report Written by the Dragonfly System. Questions can be asked at our Tumblr. TABLE OF CONTENTS
(The full data, without background or analysis or anything, can be found here:)
System Origin Data
Would you& like to be cited if quoted in the survey's response report? If yes, please include what you& should be referr
hey if you actually don't want to form an opinion without evidence you really shouldn't be spreading rumors. maybe you can respond to anons without posting them in such a way that doesn't broadcast unsubstantiated information to dozens of people
Cant have shit on Tumblr /lh
People are going to gossip one way or another regardless of whether I platform them or not. I think it's important to look at all the gossip and rumors when trying to come up with your opinion, I just personally am not going to engage in "picking a side" without reading it myself.
That being said, the idea of "A Vent Blog" in general which I've been hearing about is quite distasteful... I don't know why someone would want to do that, but to each their own.
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as a traumagenic system, who suffered chronic, random, painful childhood emotional, mental, and physical abuse; as a traumagenic system that was the eldest daughter in a household that could not and would not keep it together; as a traumagenic system with a mother that refuses to acknowledge she needs help and often causes the most problems; as a traumagenic system who was professionally diagnosed and has been on this journey of systemhood for over five years: sysmed and trauma-only spaces have not helped us as much as plural spaces have. discussing my experiences with plurality in front of anti-endos made them tell us we were somehow wrong, invalid, or lying to ourself.
if you believe that the entirety of DID revolves around a sheet of paper with five bullet points, fuck you.
i had a big well thought-out post but im too tired rn so it just seems to me that sysmeds are so decidedly pro-definition they forget the fact that things change over time, including brain structure of human beings both in singular lives and across generations
