AHH A DESU ASK THANK YOU I LOVE YOU

this may be a bit of a cop out, but i think i'm just gonna quote the staff directly on this:

“Instead of simply surviving in a desperate situation, we offered the player choices through with they could interact with others, overcome various experiences, and decide for themselves what they should do about their situation. The keyword behind the main concept of ‘Devil Survivor’ is ‘Choices’. Personally, if I was put into that situation, I’d probably head to the nearest emergency shelter and try not to move. Despite having choices, my reality would be nothing like the game. [laughs]” - Shinjiro Takada

“The story of ‘Devil Survivor’ itself is like a personal message from me. Don’t ever let the situation dictate what you do. See things with your own eyes and make your own decisions. Don’t just sit back and complain about your circumstances, do something about them! The Internet may be convenient, but something as simple as a power outage can take it all away. Don’t take things for granted, because nothing in this world is certain. Always expect the unexpected. These are some of the thoughts I hope I will have gotten across to the player after they’ve finished 'Devil Survivor’.” - Yoh Haduki

@mattybax​​ I was gonna tack this on as a reblog to the post, but I think having it separately makes more sense.

That’s a really interesting question, and I will answer it, but let me give a bit of background information first.

In math, whenever we are given a statement, we want to do one of two things: either prove it’s true, or prove that it’s false. You’ll be asked things like “prove or disprove the square root of 2 is irrational” or “if m is an even number, prove or disprove that m squared is even as well”.

For the sake of this post, I’m only going to talk about disproving statements, and specifically about proofs by contradiction.

A proof by contradiction is basically what it says on the tin. You can disprove a statement by proving the existence of something that contradicts that statement.

I’ll give an example so you know what I’m talking about:

Let’s say I ask you to prove or disprove the following statement: “All humans have a head. Therefore, if something has a head, it must be a human.”

This is obviously false, because lots of things have heads that are not human. All you’d have to do in this case is show me a picture of a cat and say “look, this has a head and isn’t a human, so therefore, your statement is false.”

Pretty simple, right? So let’s look back to Laplace’s demon, and why it broke down.

Laplace says:

“An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes.”

What I bolded is the heart of what makes the Laplace demon work. Something that knows everything. If we think back to proofs by contradiction, and if we wanted to disprove it, what would the contradiction be? What would cause the Laplace mail to break down?

If it didn’t know everything.

Naoya intended for Kazuya and the others to use the Laplace emails as a guide to their actions, so we can assume that people using its own predictions was already accounted for in the program.

The thing is, the program can only predict one outcome.

Sure, the program can predict that Kazuya would find the Devil’s Fuge and use that to fight Beldr. But Beldr is one hell of a demon (and that’s reinforced through how tough his fight is from a gameplay perspective). What are the odds that Kazuya would survive? It had to place its bets on something, it’s still far more likely that Beldr would kill Kazuya even if he had the Devil’s Fuge. let’s be honest, how many times have we died to that boss fight? i don’t blame the system for betting against me

But Kazuya beat the odds and defeated Beldr anyway, introducing a contradiction into the Laplace mail’s system. And this wasn’t a one time thing. Kazuya was constantly throwing in contradictions. Midori wasn’t murdered. Over 50 people were saved in Toyoshima-ku Ikebukuro. Throughout the entire week, Kazuya was disproving the assumption that the Laplace mail is all-knowing.

As early as the second day (the first time you get the Laplace mail after changing your death clock, ie. the first time you get the Laplace mail after introducting a contradiction), you already see that it’s caused a strain on the program

Not horribly noticeable, but the font is definitely wonky.

We all know that the program breaks down considerably more over each day, and the reason is that Kazuya keeps introducing contradictions as the week goes on. 

The first time that Kazuya proved that the Laplace mail isn’t all knowing, that was fine. Naoya knew that would happen, so he made sure that the program continues as if nothing happened. There may be a few contradictions in the system now, but Naoya can paper over that smoothly enough, just enough to guide Kazuya through the week.

But Kazuya continues to disprove the underlying theorem the Laplace mail relies on every single day (as Naoya expected, but that’s for a different post).

After it’s been disproved so many times, it simply can’t work anymore. It’s now an unequivocal fact that the Laplace mail isn’t all knowing. It’s riddled with more holes than a block of swiss cheese. That thing is dead. The Laplace mail ran on the assumption that its program was all-knowing, but that’s just not the case anymore. Kazuya has disproved it one too many times, and it just breaks down entirely:

tldr: Yes, the Laplace mail would have considered the use of its own predictions into its predictions, but because it had to choose a single outcome, it just chose the more likely of the two outcomes. Kazuya had to fight like hell to change those outcomes, but he did, and doing so repeatedly was what killed off the Laplace mail.

[the article, my analysis on the topic]

Ooh, thank you for sharing!! This article touches on a lot of things that I wrote about in my original post, but in a more rigorous manner. I try to make my analyses understandable for everyone regardless of what background they have, but it's neat that this person is linking to the rigorous and disciplined explanations of these concepts.

I will say, there are a few issues with that article I feel the need to point out:

The first is that some of the claims they've made about the plot are inaccurate:

They say that "the Japanese government was aware of [the ordeal] for years and enacted the PSE Act as a safeguard."

This isn't true. The lockdown/ordeal was in response to the Shomonkai's weakening of the barrier between the human world and the demon world, which took place 6 months prior to the beginning of the game, when the Shomonkai defeated Jikokuten using Jezebel, which was planted by the founder inside Amane.

Izuna even says herself that the government panicked when they found out about the existence of demons, and had no plan as to how to deal with them:

While yes, the PSE law passed in 2001 (8 years prior to the game if we're assuming the game takes place in the same year it was released):

Its intent was not to deter demons or angels, but rather, just regular invading armies of humans:

The role of the Japanese Self-Defense Force is pretty much what it says on the tin-- self-defense. Given the above, it's clear that the PSE law was just another way Japan wanted to defend itself to prevent foreign occupation, but they had to suddenly repurpose it when the angels told them of the ordeal, and what that would mean for humanity.

Another issue with this article I want to point out is that the author also criticizes the accuracy with the demon, but they fail to consider that this inaccuracy is intentional and written into the lore.

Naoya states from the very beginning that the Laplace Mail is flawed:

Laplace's Demon works on the assumption that it has infinite knowledge, something Naoya explicitly says he does not have yet:

Therefore, the Laplace emails aren't a perfect implementation of Laplace's Demon, but it intentionally is not so. At the end of the day, Naoya is only human, after all. He has his flaws and limitations (although far fewer than the average person), and of course those are going to creep into any of his creations.

I wrote more about why the Laplace Mail breaks down in my analysis that I linked at the top, but tldr, that is very much an intentional plot point, and very much still compliant with Laplace's Demon.

Aw, hello anon!! I'm so happy to get this ask. I always love talking about my thoughts on the game, and I love Keisuke, so getting this ask is such a treat 🥰

Keisuke is a pretty controversial character among fans. I've seen people say he didn't do anything wrong, and I've also seen people say he's unforgivable because murder is wrong, no matter what. How you view him really depends on what your morals are, and that shapes whether or not you think he needs a "redemption" or not.

Personally, while I don't think Keisuke did nothing wrong, I don't actually take much issue with his partnership with Yama. Keisuke has always made it very clear that he kept his own personal judgment out of it, letting Yama do the ruling. If Yama were to kill Keisuke, he'd be fine with that since it's for the better of the world.

Everyone in the lockdown that Yama has judged has either killed someone or attempted to kill someone. This is already something that some fans find to be wrong or immoral, but for the sake of argument, let's say that Keisuke was justified in doing so.

So what should we think about this exchange?

What I find interesting about this exchange is that Keisuke didn't open with the fact that these Daemons killed people. He didn't say "Yama judged them because they've killed others." He starts rattling off a list of lesser crimes before throwing out the fact that they've killed someone. This implies that Keisuke is actually factoring in these incidents of vandalism or assault and holding it against them as well. Why were those crimes brought up? Are those relevant? And why did Keisuke frontload his justification with those lesser crimes?

Keisuke started off this justice kick because he saw Midori on the brink of being killed by other people. He continued it because senseless murder and killings were continuing to be rampant throughout the lockdown. But what happens when Keisuke decides that lesser crimes need to be judged as well?

We know that Keisuke is holding onto some misgivings about society, and this mindset is why he feels he's the perfect partner for Yama.

The lockdown was just the final nail in the coffin, but this storm has been brewing for a long time. Keisuke has had a grudge simmering inside him that boiled over when he summoned Yama.

If Keisuke continued on his current path, I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would eventually consider lesser crimes deserving of death. That wouldn't affect Yama's ruling, as Yama's judgment is independent from Keisuke's opinion, but that's still a very warped moral compass for Keisuke to keep.

Of course, Keisuke would never live long enough to see himself become that twisted (thanks, Kaido!), but hey, this is all just speculation of a hypothetical scenario.

Anyway, everyone has their own thoughts as to how justified Keisuke was in his actions, whether these actions were forgivable, or if they even needed to ask for forgiveness at all. Personally, I think Keisuke needed to be stopped before he reaches a point of no return. I don't agree with the "if you use violence, you're just as bad as the people you're killing" stance, but I do know of some people who have that mindset, so...

Keisuke's actions are the epitome of a moral dilemma. Whether or not you think it's justified is something you have to decide on your own, but there certainly isn't a consensus among fans.

My favorite thing about them: Oh man, if I had to choose one thing, it's how contradictory his character is. He's a cold, distant asshole by necessity, desperately wishing to partake in humanity, but knowing that he just cannot. All the loss he's experienced, all the pain he's endured-- his reslience throughout the millenia is seemingly fueled by personal vengeance and hatred towards YHVH, but if you look more closely, actually stems from a selfless love towards his brother. The man seems calm and unbothered, but is actually the pettiest bitch on this planet of Earth. He's seemingly desensitized to the concept of death, but then begs for law!Abel to kill him.

Thanks to his... predicament, every initial assumption the player has about him is simulateously correct and also so, so wrong.

My least favorite thing about them: There's actually nothing I dislike about his character, so I'm gonna cheat and say drawing his haori is the absolute worst.

My favorite canon relationship: I love the game's implication that Loki has been tormenting him for GOD knows how long now.

My favorite non-canon relationship: I really wish we got more information on Naoya's connection with Keisuke. The game doesn't really go into it, so I think it's safe to assume that this was part of the content that was scrapped when the devs realized they needed to cull some scenes. Anyway, we're reduced to broad speculation when it comes to Naoya and Keisuke's relationship. I have my own thoughts but that's for another post...

The sexuality I headcanon for them: Kind of a tricky one. I don't think Naoya would pursue anyone purely because his punishment means that he can't afford to get attached to anyone that isn't Abel. I guess if I had to answer, he's theoretically bi, but in reality? a fucking mess.

What I’d do if I could spend the day with them: I think I might be legitimately too intimidated to do anything. The guy is kind of a total freak. How are you supposed to have a conversation with someone who already knows what you're going to say and do? I guess maybe I'd ask for food recommendations since Japanese sweets are his favorite thing to eat but like. God I really have no clue what I would do LMFAO

Random fact about them I like: HMMM I really like how he opens up at the end of his route since he knows his punishment is coming to an end.

In the very beginning of the game, Naoya is implied to not have any sense of humor at all. Yuzu says that the Laplace email must be a joke, and Atsuro says that Naoya must have a sense of humor. But the way Atsuro says this means that Naoya hasn’t been shown to joke around, and Atsuro is just assuming that Naoya has a sense of humor because Naoya is human, too. But then at the end of Naoya’s no kill route, though, Naoya shows his lighthearted side by teasing Atsuro about his crush on Yuzu. Idk, I just found that really sweet.