#der standard

Translated interview

Director Céline Sciamma: ‘I try to create new forms of eroticism’

Dominik Kamalzadeh, in: Der Standard, 15th of December 2019

// Additions or clarifications for translating purposes are denoted as [T: …]. Almost zero here, Céline said it all 🙂. //

‘Portrait of a Lady on Fire’ tells the love story of two women in the 1770s. Her much acclaimed film is about the present, says the director.

A painter (Noémie Merlant) arrives on an isle in Brittany with a secret commission. She is supposed to paint the portrait of a young noble woman (Adèle Haenel) without her knowledge. But they meet on equal terms, and soon they share an idea of liberty, they fall in love with each other. The portrait is made under new conditions.

Céline Sciamma’s ‘Portrait of a Lady on Fire’ (Portrait de la jeune fille en feu) is not a typical love story. Artistic and focused, the film allows access to a female counterfort [T: literal translation of ‘Widerlager’, which is borrowed from here], where the laws of the outside world are turned upside down. Sciamma’s award-winning work was much debated, she emerges as sharp advocate for her own film during the conversation in Hamburg.

Interviewer: Roles and morals are always clearly defined in period films. Was it therefore more appealing to talk about liberties?

Céline Sciamma: I didn’t really set out to transform the genre. I wanted to observe the background of the period as any other. When you’re delving into the past, then you’re officially dealing with a clearly defined society. In the present, people act as if that’s not the case anymore – but that’s wrong. You also take decisions, whether it’s about the framing or the costumes. When the codes are official, my decisions certainly become more apparent. Everything seems bigger. It was really fun, because it made me pay more attention to do a contemporary film.

I: But the opportunities for women were much more restricted than today. When you leave them alone, without a chaperon on a desert island, does that not reinforce the utopia?

CS: As the film is set in the past, it is official that women are oppressed. We know the grid of oppression. I didn’t need to spend much time on it. At the same time, it allowed me to create another story, in which it is not about giving women freedom that they don’t have. For me, it was about sharing their intimacy. And when we share this intimacy and drop out of this world for a few moments, then we see what is possible. It is not a biopic about strong women, it is also not about repressed feelings. It is a whole new story: a love story with equality, without dominance. There is no intellectual dominance, and no social hierarchy anymore.

I: The class conflict with the maid, the third one in the group, is also suspended.

CS: Sisterhood allows this. And it is also true. Cinema is the only art, which allows us to share somebody’s loneliness. It creates intimacy and experience. Utopias are not futuristic dreams, they emerge because of local experiences. I have experienced a world without men for myself. It happens, not often, but it happens. To a certain extent, this is embodied in myself. The world that we dream of: It exists.

I: You approach the cinematic gaze through the painter/portrayed configuration. It was often said of cinema that it prefers the male gaze – how do you escape this?

CS: For me, it was above all an attempt to deal with the ideas in a generous and playful manner. I didn’t want this film to appear theoretical. There’s a lot to harvest, there’s also an entertaining story. The mirror relationship was also meant to be comical. It is always my dream to create a language, a rhythm, aiming for the audience to learn this language while watching.

I: You share a perspective and with this an emotion. But the film also permanently deconstructs the act of looking.

CS: The point is to stop the objectification. I wanted to present all characters as subjects. This creates an intelligent viewer. That’s not meant to be educational: I assume that my audience is smart. It’s just that you don’t often cater to this.

I: This is the first time that you work with professional actresses. You are close to Adèle Haenel, how did the casting of Noémie Merlant happen?

CS: I was indeed thinking of Adèle when I was writing the script. I wanted to suggest something new to her, so that she discovers a new version of herself as actress – also from a technical perspective, how she uses her voice for example. The fun was of course that I knew the ‘model’ very well and that the painter would now look at her…

I: A reflection of the directorial axis…

CS: Exactly. Noémie has often looked at me to confirm how she would in turn look at Adèle. This merry-go-round of gazes was really cool. I didn’t want to go for a second famous actress, because in a lesbian relationship this would feel like a performance. You should be able to believe in the couple and the relationship. A newcomer succeeds in this with greater freshness. I was also looking for a physical contrast between the two, the blonde and the brunette, which was good for filming.

I: The relationship between the model and the painter also includes the one between the muse and the painter. But there’s not much left of this…

CS: That is not really difficult. Most people are just too lazy. I genuinely asked myself how I can avoid to objectify these women. The male gaze is just about conventions. You leave the world as it is. That is more comfortable. I don’t feel like I’m part of that, so I don’t have to feel comfortable. Maybe that’s why it’s easier for me.

I: You pursue this path consistently. For example, in the scene where the mirror in front of the genital of one is reflecting the gaze of the other.

CS: I try not to erase anything, but to create new forms of eroticism. New tingling. The sex scene of the film is not simulated. You can see the penetration of an armpit. I find that sexy. And everything is based on consent – that is also very sexy.

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