#db-minus

I guess Gine can be considered useless from a certain viewpoint. But I don't consider her useless.

Due to Gine being softhearted, Bardock began to care enough about his kids more as shown when he asked where Raditz was first, then made sure Kakarot was sent off world too; making sure both his sons were off the planet just in case Freeza was actually going to kill the Saiyans (which he did).

This is basically who Z Bardock would've become if he was around his family more because he came to care for Kakarrot a day after he was born in the Bardock Special.

Another important contribution from Gine is what Goku inherited from her. And as we agree, kindness isn't inherited.

What Goku inherited from Gine was that he too was unfit for battle. He looked like Bardock, but had Gine's lack of battle power.

Goku is essentially a Bardock that was born unfit for battle. Then, he was raised to be kind by an old man, and his determination & discipline in martial arts made him strive to be the best he could be and by proxy he became the strongest mortal in the universe.

DB-Minus also connects & explains things mentioned in Toriyama's original manga as well as correcting a few events in the Bardock Special while implying that at least 90% of the T.V. special still happened. (Basically making it cannon but with corrections.)

But, we will have to wait and see other details of what happened if they are ever revealed.

Oh look! Toriyama explained why Raditz remembered Goku as a baby! Pretty neat, eh?

But the haters of "modern Toriyama" ignore this and many other things Toriyama put in DB-Minus because they are nostalgia blind & don't want to notice narrative mistakes in the Bardock Special.

FATHER OF GOKU: Raditz was off world in the Bardock Special, so he would have no idea what his brother's name is or what he looked like because baby Kakarrot was sent away 1 day after his birth to infiltrate Earth; a planet Freeza had zero interest in. Raditz would have to be told by a Freeza soldier about Goku's Saiyan name and what planet he was sent to. NARRATIVE MISTAKES.

TORIYAMA'S IDEAS: Raditz was able to see his brother & know his name, unlike in the Bardock Special. Baby Kakarrot was sent to Earth to survive; a planet Freeza had zero interest in. Then, Bardock and Gine had to send a coded message to Raditz in order for Freeza (who's men listen to scouter conversations) not to know the truth.

I'll be examining and dissecting Geekdom101's video about Toriyama's Bardock and using some timestamps. Feel free to watch his video to understand what I'm referencing.

There are some points that Geekdom missed about the T.V. special & there is a time when he contradicts his own statements.

Enough of the intro, let's hop into this.

GOKU RETCON?

TIMESTAMP (9:10 - 10:00)

Toriyama DID NOT retcon Goku.

In the Jaco the Galactic Patrolman manga chapter 11 page 11, Goku is shown to be wild and violent as a child. He even fought Grampa Gohan during their first encounter. This reinforces what Toriyama originally wrote in the Dragon Ball manga.

Meanwhile, the Bardock Special shows Goku as a happy, gentle, & kind baby being held by Grampa Gohan. THAT actually retcons what Toriyama originally wrote. (I wonder why so many fans overlook this. 🤔)

Which one is more accurate when displaying a violent/wild child? The answer is obvious, but that doesn't mean that the Bardock Special is terrible now.

I'm not gonna keep defending how I like the Bardock Special for the ppl who will assume I'm a hater of the T.V. Special. If I critique it, then it doesn't mean I hate it. Simple.

But, it's funny how ppl assume you hate the Bardock Special just because you critique it. That's like critiquing your favorite food by saying, "It could use a little more seasoning." But, you still love it.

Also, Goku WAS NOT kind because his parents were kind. Bardock was a man who committed genocide, but happened to show mercy once or twice. He's even shown to be commiting genocide at the begining of DB-Minus. And although Gine was gentle-natured, kindness IS NOT something you inherit. Kindness is something learned.

And guess what? Goku constantly gives credit to Grampa Gohan for raising him to be kind. But, ppl somehow miss this fact and choose to believe Vegeta's innacurate assumption.

So... what did Goku inherit from his parents? 🤔

Bardock: appearance & determination.

Gine: gentle-nature & unfit for combat due to such a low battle power.

By introducing Gine, Toriyama actually explained to us why Goku was so weak in comparison to other Saiyans at the begining of DBZ. But, through Goku's determination and hard training, the underdog Sayain became the strongest.

LAZY WRITING?

TIMESTAMP (12:27 - 12:33)

Geekdom expresses that the gut feeling Bardock has comes off as lazy writing (to him). Having an alien fish-man granting Bardock visions can be seen as lazy writing too from a certain perspective. Why? Because using unnecessary visions to take up run time comes off as lazy (to me). But, the visons of the Saiyans' grim fate is interesting and well executed.

TIMESTAMP (18:28 - 18:56)

Another example of lazy writing in the Bardock Special is the fact that Raditz would not have known what Goku looked like or what his Saiyan name was because Goku was sent away 1 day after his birth & Raditz was currently off world. Freeza's army would have to relay the information to Raditz since his men sent Goku away to conquer Earth. But, if Freeza & his men knew of another Saiyan survivor, then why was Freeza surprised when he met Goku on Namek?

However, in Minus/Super, Raditz has seen Goku over a span of 3 years. Also, Bardock & Gine say they will tell Raditz about Goku being sent to Earth. But, they had to lie & say that Goku was sent as an infiltration baby because Freeza is listening over the scouters. Minus actually makes more sense in certain places that the Bardock Special doesn't.

CONTRADICTING STATEMENTS

TIMESTAMPS (14:25 - 14:58) & (2:55 - 3:27)

At 2:55 - 3:27, Geekdom states that Toriyama said that the Bardock Special was too dark in his opinion & that Toriyama was a gag & comedy writer.

At 14:25 - 14:58, Geekdom speaks as if the comedy loving Toriyama is a different man and has softened up as he got older and didn't want to write dark stuff.

(Toriyama's 1995 interview & 2011 statements.)

Dark stories are something Toriyama has never really liked. If he writes something dark, then he adds comedy or hope in it to balance it out. This has always been Toriyama. Age didn't change Toriyama in that aspect.

Sidenote, the Bardock Special was only a canon "placeholder." MEANING, Toriyama added that single scene until he decided to write his story that ended up taking heavy influence from the T.V. special.

Bardock confronting Freeza in space was the only confirmed event to have happened in Toriyama's story. Other events are implied and were assumed to all to be "canon" by fans.

FAN ASSUMPTION

TIMESTAMP (2:30 - 2:52)

(This one ain't a disagreement. Just some quick 'splaining.)

Geekdom says that Toriyama never wrote his story of Bardock. This is true.

Geekdom also says that he and many fans (this includes myself as well) assumed that Z Bardock was the "canon" story. But, as we see in DBS: Broly, we were still mostly correct about the Bardock Special. Bardock's crew is still present & a battle damaged Bardock still fights Freeza alone.

TIMESTAMPS (17:19 - 17:24) & (19:37 - 20:09)

In DB-Minus, Freeza said he would give the Saiyans 1 month's time before he destroys Planet Vegeta. Meaning that Goku was sent away ONE ENTIRE MONTH before the planet explodes in DB-Minus. This left time for many of the events of the Bardock Special to take place.

Minus doesn't erase OG Bardock as many fans think it does. Minus just fills in some blanks.

Minus CANNOT exist without the OG. Just pointing that out.

FREEZA'S PARANOIA

TIMESTAMP (17:24 - 18:28)

In the original manga, Dodoria reveals that Freeza feared Saiyans getting stronger and ganging up on him as well as mentioning Freeza fearing the Super Saiyan legend.

Vegeta later reiterates how Freeza feared the Super Saiyan legend.

Then in DB-Minus, Freeza hears about different Saiyan legends.

Freeza didn't know what SSJ or a SSG were, but all this still coincides with Freeza fearing that Saiyans would get stronger & team-up against him. So, DB-Minus DOES NOT retcon Freeza's paranoia. It just gives Freeza more reason to kill the Saiyans. (Although, it can be fair to say it was unnecessary to be mentioned.)

I think ppl just dont like the SSJ & SSG namedrop. Why do ppl get so mad over this even though Dodoria & Vegeta allude to Freeza somehow knowing of the SSJ legend? Freeza must've had his soldiers ask around or he heard it over the Scouters. DB-Minus just explains how Freeza would know of such Saiyan legends.

Asking about such things is definitely something Freeza would do. But, Freeza brushes them off as merely heroic legends like other aliens have. (Yet was secretly paranoid.)

Who's to say that SSG isn't a legend that's more rare than the SSJ legend & only very few Saiyans knew of it? Vegeta didn't know of it at first, but that's likely due to him not learning about it since Planet Vegeta was destroyed when he was young. And when we include Beerus, its not like Saiyans & other aliens didn't know of different gods. Even Earth has lower planetary gods.

Also, Raditz says "thank the gods" so, that could imply that Saiyans knew of gods. It could even be possible that some Saiyans viewed the legend of the Super Saiyan God as a being to worship.

But, that's speculation. Just as how we are still unsure what the original Super Saiyan was/is.

A Golden Oozaru? Yamoshi? Broly? Bardock?! (jk)

INFILTRATION BABIES

TIMESTAMP (18:46 - 19:21)

Can someone explain to me how a newborn baby would know to destroy all life on a planet, then wait for the Freeza Force to find him so they could sell the planet? That never made sense to me, but I just went with it.

Now change newborn with a toddler that is capable of higher understanding and higher combat capabilities that will attack the inhabitants of a planet. That makes more sense than an Oozaru crawling around like an infant. Just say'n.

The term "baby" can be used to encompass newborns, infants, & toddlers. So the term "infiltration baby" still fits for a toddler Goku.

SUPERMAN RIP-OFF?

TIMESTAMP (19:21 - 19:36)

Geekdom mentions that the way DB-Minus Bardock sent Goku to Earth is a "Superman rip-off." Which one is actually more of a rip-off?

BARDOCK T.V. SPECIAL: Baby Kakarrot is luckily sent away moments before Planet Vegeta gets destroyed. And he is destined for greatness through Bardock's visions.

DB-MINUS/DBS: BROLY: 3 year old Kakarrot is sent away by his parents an entire month prior to Planet Vegeta's destruction because of Bardock's paranoia (so far as we currently know).

Geekdom and others often claim that the T.V. Special is more creative in how Goku was sent to Earth. It ain't. Both can be seen as taking aspects from Superman and using them differently.

CONCLUSION

Many ppl who love Z Bardock often ignore the errors it has, then they hate on Minus Bardock and ignore the consistency it presents. The same could be said of Z Bardock haters.

BUT, majority of fans who like Minus Bardock also love Z Bardock.

The Bardock Special had some flaws in the writing just as anything in DB does. It ain't perfect. It's an amazing special, but it does have its own little "retcons" that ppl don't talk about.

Many fans dislike what the Super manga did when Bardock's wish protected Goku until he became an adult, but ironically, they fail to realize the Bardock Special did something very similar.

Bardock Special: Goku's life is predestined, thus erasing any stakes there may have been throughout DB & up to when he faces Freeza in DBZ (& possibly beyond that).

Minus/DBS Broly: Goku's father became suspicious of Freeza's plot so he sent Goku away just in case. Bardock's suspicions are correct & Goku survived thanks to the precaution of his parents.

DBS manga: Goku was protected by Toronbo until he became an adult, invalidating everything Goku did as a kid in OG Dragon Ball.