#ch talking

From what I’ve noticed (just vibes and impressions), during the pre-Clancy era and even a bit into the beginning of it, Tyler still seemed to be showing something toward Jenna—like making a whole music video with a song named after her. Even if it felt a bit distant, there was still something coming from him. But now it feels like he doesn’t even try anymore, almost like he knows he doesn’t have to. Jenna stopped posting on Instagram the way she used to, and when she does post now it’s like 30 photos of the kids and barely any with Tyler or actual family pictures—it’s usually something she records of him. The two stories she posted during the Breach tour where he looked completely out of it… and then him making a whole album without a single song for her? And not even mentioning it? He always used to point out which song was for her, but this time he said nothing, even when he had the chance during the listening live.

And then there’s the fact that he cut The Craving from the Clancy Tour movie. I get that some songs had to be cut for time, but a few years ago, I really doubt he would’ve cut a song for her. He used to reaffirm that constantly. And since it was a special show recorded for theaters—something that’s meant to be permanent—I was honestly surprised he chose not to include that “special romantic moment” for her on something that would be preserved like that, and Tear in My Heart doesn’t count because it’s a hit, so of course they’re going to play it . It might not mean much to other people, but it definitely sets off a little signal in my brain.

When I first listened to Breach, I was shocked by how direct he was. And it’s not just one song about Josh—the whole album feels connected to him in some way (Robot Voices, Garbage, Rawfear, Downstairs, One Way, Drag Path). And just when I thought nothing else was going to happen, he goes and does a cover of Stolen Dance along with One Way. There’s no way that cover doesn’t mean something, especially paired with that song. So to me, it feels like he needed some kind of emotional shock to really see things clearly, both his feelings for Josh and his situation with Jenna. I think he did a lot of reflecting last year, which ties into that “2025 was a really exhausting year for me” comment. Before, it felt more like, “ I love my wife, maybe I feel something sometimes but it’s not a big deal because I love her more—look at this normal family I have, I’m normal, it’s just occasional moments.” And then it shifts into, “Yeah… I think I really am, and always have been, in love with him.” And from there, also coming to certain realizations about his marriage—you know what I mean.

Anyway, sorry this got so long, I just needed to get these thoughts out

honestly, i think something was already happening before that, joshler had a resurgence because they've been feeding into it again heavily, tyler especially on stage, the clancy livestream is peppered with little moments that don't feel out of place so much as they feel direct. and i mean. do i even need to mention the lavish stage wedding.

so i think, after josh moved back, and tyler started really processing the feelings he had about his move, and maybe started to have an epiphany of some sort.

then, i think you're right, frankly, i think reality slammed into him when he found out that debby was pregnant, and he realized that while on stage he and josh could go through the motions of wedding, and he could flirt into a microphone, and all of that, night after night. that was not reality. and it hadn't been a truly possible reality since 2020 when rosie was born, or even 2015 when he married jenna, that he had stepped onto this path, and just now, as josh steps onto it too, he realizes it's inescapable.

and so. we get one way. and its remix with stolen dance on stage. as tyler finally realizes that, someday may have already become too late

and also hard agree on your points about his marriage. i think tyler has realized that while he is stuck in this situation, jenna is as well. they are two asteroids orbiting the same fixed point, so there are no performances to keep up with her anymore. because he knows she's not going to leave him. so he drops the performative stuff. probably focuses in on the childcare, and they find a new equilibrium. because what else is there to do? rip their family apart? for what? a divorce would be bad for both of them and for the kids. neither of them are ever going to file that paperwork. there's simply no point to it, no one wins in that situation and they both know it.

I’m probably going to come back to this ask later because I need to process everything they said (even though I was already aware of a lot of it). I’ve always had these thoughts about their relationship and about how it felt like Tyler threw himself into it partly to meet his family’s expectations. But when so many people keep trying to gaslight you, you start wondering if maybe you’re just imagining things.

It’s honestly really comforting to know that so many other people came to similar conclusions. I didn’t read someone else’s opinion and adopt it as my own—these thoughts just gradually formed as I learned more and more about the band. So it’s nice to realize there are even more things that support the conclusions I’d already come to. I’m also really curious about this “hiatus.” Let’s see how long Tyler can actually handle it :)

And as uncomfortable as it might sound to say this out loud, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to wonder whether Tyler maybe didn’t want a third child. I’ve always thought it was really strange that he buried himself in work while Jenna was about to have Tommy, and then went on a world tour when the baby was only four months old. But when you really think about it, he’s never actually taken much time to just enjoy a normal family life.

Rosie was born, and he went back on tour when she was only about a year old (and it would’ve been even sooner if the pandemic hadn’t happened). The same thing happened with Junie—he kept doing shows and festivals while she was still a newborn. Then Tommy was born, and he decided to make music videos for every single song on the album. And then there’s that more recent interview where they were talking about having kids, and Tyler said he couldn’t tell whether his parents had simply forgotten what raising children was actually like or whether they’d basically lied by only telling him the good parts. 😭 Like… he literally “joked” that he felt tricked into parenthood.

Honestly, it makes sense. He’s someone who’s struggled with his mental health , so his emotional energy is probably depleted much faster than most people’s. Now that I think about it, let’s also consider the way Jenna describes him. She says he’s the one who keeps the family together, the one who carries everything, the one who still finds the energy to be present for them and give them attention even when he’s completely exhausted. Like who wouldn’t have a breakdown? Having to carry so much on your shoulders, always being expected to be the “man of the family,” and feeling like you can’t show any weakness. Look at the lyrics of Center Mass. They paint the picture of someone who’s exhausted, trying to keep functioning while carrying responsibilities, vulnerabilities, and a constant feeling that they need to take up less space.

And after songs like that, and so many others, people still think he lives a happy life.

Anyway… this is all kind of insane. Like how are you casually admitting that you used to ghost your girlfriend?? At this point, I honestly wonder if he proposed so quickly because he felt like she was getting tired of him and might eventually leave if he didn’t show that he was actually serious about the relationship.

the other thing about the speed of the engagement, tyler proposed in june of 2014. zack got married in july. to this day i am positive tyler was getting pressure from his family over "falling behind" regarding standard life milestones as the eldest, and that's probably part of the reason it happened so fucking fast

Because they want to keep this idealized image of Tyler as completely happy and fulfilled, they come up with all these explanations for why the newer lyrics are so heavy. To make themselves feel better, they convince themselves he’s just writing about the past and doesn’t feel that way anymore—that now he’s “normal.”

But it’s so clear they don’t understand depression at all. Especially when it starts that young (the chances of it being something that comes and goes over time are pretty high). And let’s be real, his life is full of potential triggers for it to come back. And on top of that, the whole lore is literally built around loops and cycles, do they even realize what that means? Just look at Clancy, look at songs like Backslide, Snap Back, center mass, One Way, Garbage , Intentions….you’re really going to tell me those are about past feelings? Garbage literally sounds like someone who feels completely drained in the present. Clancy's album is literally a relapse album.

Tyler himself has said that when he was writing Trench, he would basically lock himself in the basement, and Jenna had to go check on him , and they were newly married at the time, supposedly in that “honeymoon phase.” So come on… let’s be real. I know it’s not a pretty reality, but it’s still reality

He wasn’t in a good place mentally while writing any of the albums. Honestly, I don’t think he’s ever been fully okay or consistently happy in his life (of course there are exceptions, I’m not saying he’s miserable all the time, but he’s never really been in a phase where he felt completely happy and at peace). But some fans get really uncomfortable even thinking about that.

It’s like, “what do you mean he’s not happy? He has a wife who loves him, he loves his wife, he has three perfect kids—how is that not enough to make him feel okay?”

The songs really show how he’s been losing that spark more and more as the years go by. Garbage makes that pretty clear, talking about how there’s nothing left, like he feels so empty that there’s no energy left in him. He even questions whether he felt more when he was younger because of youth itself or just because he was more naive. And now it’s like he’s not even capable of feeling that much anymore because of how empty he feels.

You know what I mean? I get that it might feel easier to believe he’s just writing about the past now, like it’s some kind of obligation—having to revisit old things to write good songs—but Tyler makes it pretty clear these are things he still feels and experiences. The whole lore is built around cycles he can’t break. He’s still going through it—he’s just an adult now and maybe handles it differently, but it’s still part of who he is. It’s not something you can just overcome and win, and it bothers me how some people think that way.

Thanks to previous anon for mentioning Tyler’s hair. There’s also been a long break during the clancy tour, they went home (idk maybe before europe?) and jenna had not cut his hair back then either. His hair got crazier and someone had started trimming it a bit for him, i believe it was Laura since she has also done their grooming.

AND the fact jenna didnt do his hair is not „she doesn’t have time because kids” moment. Insider info: they were on a rocky road the entirety of clancy tour and breach. It’s not even that insider, you just had to follow the clancy tour and Jenna’s instagram to get the vibe it’s not all sunshine and rainbows. I mean, the guy stopped wearing his ring.

They’ve always been on a rocky road to be honest.

If Tyler looks unhappy in the story she posted when they were going together with kids on breach tour… well it’s bc he wasn’t happy lol. idrk why she kept putting these things on her stories. why’d she think it was better than nothing? and it’s the best footage she got. like he was not happy at all about touring together. and everyone keeps babying him and treating him like an angel, but at the end of the day he’s a musician on tour. he doesn’t want to tour with his wife and kids. duuuh.

They’re so weird since the beginning really. They didn’t really know each other, Tyler toured the entirety of 2013/14 and they got engaged. Jenna always got mad cause when he went on tour he would basically ghost her and he mentioned it himself. They got married in 2015 while still barely knowing each other. They didn’t even live together because it was not allowed before marriage (conservative christians united).

And people keep bringing up his old posts about her and how sweet it was of him to talk about Jenna in a romantic way. Yeah, he said ALL that but he didn’t really know her lmao. It’s like soo high school behaviour, fawning over your crush. (Wonder why he stopped posting about her like that…)

They acted like teens. When an interviewer asked her about TIMH lyrics being not that lovely and how she feels about being called a butcher with a knife, she basically responded “oh you know, Tyler has his own way of telling things and… well I know what he means and that’s what really matters”. While I’m at it I’ll say I don’t blame her for acting like a young girl in love, because she really was one. She was only 21 back then by the way. Soon to get married to a dude. Half a decade older than her. She barely knows the dude. Yikes.

He spent the next years on tour barely being home. She sometimes went with him and they seemed okay but more like friends than an actual couple. Then their relationship barely survived covid and a first newborn. And nobody’s surprised because they’ve never really spent a long amount of time together ALONE. PLUS A FREAKING NEWBORN OMG.

Jenna always acted like a fangirl and really tried to push it onto others that she was the one who got to keep him. She’s not an awful person but she’s super annoying. Tyler often times looks annoyed by her bc she really is bothering him. She’s always talking and gets excited about every single thing, always wants to do something new and try something new and Tyler is the type of person that needs peace, his more reserved and doesn’t like trying new things. She wants adventure, he loves routine. She drains him + he feels like a loser bc he can’t match her expectations. She demands big romantic gestures and Tyler’s… well. He’s Tyler. He can’t give her everything she wants because he’s a different type of person. Match made in hell. And he always says he’ll make it up to her but he won’t. It’s just impossible.

She loves documenting stuff and making it public, showing only the best parts of their life and he thinks it’s fake and stupid. He’s always been blunt and honest, doesn’t like to play dollhouse.

By the way I hate how Jenna does not care about her body and kept popping these babies.. this frequency is NOT healthy and recommended, but as a real trad wife she flexes on her ig “3 kids in 4 years”. Damn. Weird flex but ok.

I feel bad for both sides. Tyler’s got major mommy issues and almost everything he has done in his life was to please his mother. Get a job, get married to a woman, have kids.

Jenna’s dream was always having a big family. She reeeeally wants kids, when Tyler obviously already had enough when there was only one child at play. He really isn’t a family guy. He’s had enough of being a dad, literally notice how he’s always talking about negatives of parenthood. He’s never positive. He literally missed the first year of his son’s life.

On the other hand Jenna met him so young she doesn’t really know life outside of this relationship. It’s scary to end any relationship but it’s absolutely terrifying having no experience in dating. (That’s also why she sticks beside him no matter how wrong he does her) and it’s also not easy starting over with three little kids.

It’s tragic. It’s tragic, because they’ll keep wasting their time together being unhappy. It’s tragic, because now there’s three kids at play. They’d never get divorced because it’s more than frowned upon in their community. For them marriage is forever and idk what would have to happen for them to go their separate ways. Divorce also is messy. Traumatic for the kids, money, custody etc. (also, Tyler if you’re reading this, buy your wife a new phone please, why is she using an ancient iPhone)

I may seem mean and hateful towards Jenna throughout this lecture, but I’m really not that hateful. I despise her the same way I despise Tyler. jk lmao. I admire her for taking care of THREE(!!!) kids by herself and I feel sorry for her that she married a man who chose that kind of life only to satisfy his fam and not because he was sure that’s how he wants to live.

I know a lot more but I’m only mentioning stuff that was public. I encourage other people with insider information / insiders to speak up, I don’t want to feel alone in this. Thank you.

- 🍰

Having kids in the picture makes everything way more complicated than just ‘breaking up and going your separate ways.’ And now that both of them are in that situation, it’s different—it becomes more like a realization that he missed his chance at anything else, and now Josh has his own family with his wife, a life he’s not part of.

And the more you think about it, Breach having so many romantic-leaning songs actually makes total sense. It really feels like he wanted to vent in some way instead of staying in that constant state of denial, honestly, that’s already something. I think he spent all those years still in denial, constantly justifying things, refusing to accept it, and genuinely believing in and putting effort into his marriage. But now he’s in the ‘realizing’ phase, and he can’t keep pretending or lying to himself anymore, and at least internally, he’s able to admit it.

I get why some people just ship Joshler as a joke, they’d probably be a lot happier that way.

yeah. yeah. bullseye, anon, bullseye.

tyler has finally realized it might actually be too late, that they are both in too deep in their married lives, there are kids involved, families, and old hypotheticals and daydreams can't stand up to the harsh light of reality as it now stands.

At the same time Jenna posting a million pics of him and the kids and basically no pics of just her and Tyler as a couple does kinda point towards things not being that rosy between them. Because if that kind of content existed I’m 100% sure she’d be posting it. I mean why wouldn’t she? Her followers are mostly tøp fans who see her and Tyler’s marriage as the gold standard for relationships, they’d love it.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DZ5gVZHFaj8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

(clickable link)

could also be that as the kids get a little older, they wanna make plans over the summer, they wanna do summer camp and see their friends and stuff kids do, and they don't want to be in a foreign country where they don't know anyone and might not speak the language. travel can be hard on kids, especially when they get old enough to get sick of airports.

(the article, for those curious)

as if josh ever could (or would ever want to) forget that tyler is there