#bsvane

These men, who brought me here today, do not fear me. They brought me here today because they fear you and because they know that my voice, the voice that refuses to be enslaved, once lived in you. And may yet still. They brought me here today to show you death and use it to frighten you into ignoring that voice. But know this. We are many. They are a few. To face death is a choice. And they can't hang us all. Get on with it, mother fucker.

it is clear in the show that he doesnt love them the same way (for eleanor its romantic love and for jack its not) but he values friendship and partnership SO MUCH that, really, it makes little difference.

the main difference, i think, is that his love for eleanor is the kind he would kill for, whereas his love for jack is the kind he would (and does) die for.

as soon as s1 we see how far he's willing to push himself and how violent he's willing to be to protect eleanor, we see how brutal he can be if he thinks he's protecting eleanor that way. but i dont think he's ever at a point where he's like "ok if she needs it i will die for her". he is at his most despicable when he thinks he's defending eleanor in some way (like with ned low), but i don't think he'd go as far as die for her.

with jack, it absolutely is the kind of love he'd risk his life for. the first example of this that we see is when they're chasing silver at the wrecks and jack falls into the sea. vane should be 100% focused on silver, bc thats the only way he can make any profit out of the situation, yet he takes precious time out of this chase to make sure jack is ok. i can fully believe that had jack been in danger, he'd have jumped too.

when anne kills the crew and vane blames jack, he could have killed him, but bc he's so devoted to loyalty, he doesn't.

and when anne and vane team up to rescue jack, they know there's a chance they're gonna fail. and vane is willing to take that risk. and he does end up being captured.

of course vane died for the revolution, but he also kinda died for jack.

his relationship with eleanor can't work because she doesn't reciprocate. she might love him, but she keeps betraying him even when all he does is for her. he's a tool in her hands.

with jack, it works because it is reciprocated. jack would also die for vane, and vane knows this. thats why he's so willing to die for jack, too.

Since you've also watched Black Sails, I wanted to ask you: parallels? Maybe? Mostly Flint vs Drummer? (or actually, Nassau Vs the Belt) But somewhat opposite narratives? I don't even know if you could call them parallels or if it makes any sense to relate/compare the two shows. BUT the brainworms are real.

I can't really elaborate right now, so feel free to ignore this if it doesn't make sense 🤣 i just wanted to leave this here, just in case.

What a great ask! I feel like I'm gonna ramble a lot to get to my point, but I'll try and make your question justice =)

So, disclaimer: I adored The Expanse; I deeply deeply enjoyed it, and came to passionately care for its characters, so on so forth. But one thing that I learned the hard way is that it is better for me not to compare any show I like to Black Sails, because what that comparison ends up doing for me is usually to point out how incomparably good Black Sails is above anything else ever.

Now, does this mean that I didn’t think about possible comparisons between the two shows? Hell no. And I do believe that there is something good to be said there about the character work both shows made, both in terms of individual arcs – it could be argued that Camina is a Flint who’s been given Max’s arc – and in more general terms of how nuanced and thought-provoking and subtly progressive the characters in both shows are; how we’re allowed to explore the emotional backlash of every single choice they make; how their psychology feels grounded and real even through all the war and grief and loss they’re all constantly facing. And yet…

And yet, if I look at the overall philosophy of these shows, at their deeper meaning, at the deeper story they tell about the state of the world, I can’t help but feel that The Expanse is yet another narrative convinced that Civilisation is the good guy, and that in the dark there be dragons. There are physical incarnations of Civilisation that may be corrupt, sure: we spend the whole of the first seasons fighting them and outgrowing them. But in the end, the biggest enemy humanity has is a dragon born of darkness, and the best shot humanity has is to come together to fight for Civilisation, and against the dragon.

Now, do I blame the Expanse for this? Absolutely not; were it not for Black Sails, I would not think it possible to have any show articulate the revolutionary idea that there is freedom in the dark once we illuminate it. It’s Black Sails that sets the bar too high; the Expanse is thought-provoking and subtle and progressive in its own ways. I just think that those ways are better found in the character work. Which means that I’ll revel in the thought that the character of Naomi even exists: a marginalised woman who’s a brilliant engineer and who’s allowed by the narrative to put her own survival and shot at happiness before her motherhood, without it depriving her of her capacity for love. I’ll rejoice at thinking that we got a male hero such as Holden: a quiet, physically frail man whose strongest suit is his deep compassion for others and whose arc is fulfilled by him letting go of power. I’ll stand in awe in front of Camina Drummer, pirate queen extraordinaire, a marginalised queer woman who’s allowed to fight and love and lose and emerge from her all encompassing grief unbroken, unbent, unbowed, wielding unimaginable power with which to protect her people. And I could go on raving about Avasarala, the literal more powerful person in the universe being a woman of colour who so easily exudes authority and assertiveness through her every move that she could single-handedly end sexism and racism by the simple act of standing in a crowd and commanding it; or about Bobby Draper of my buddy Amos or anybody else, really.

I’ve come to resume our compact, the one we swore upon our lives to uphold.