#aspoonofsugar

Hi!

I think one thing does not exclude the other tbh. As per their game's canon relationship, they are gonna spiral into enemies and stay that way throughout the majority of the series. However, if the authors are willing to actually give a proper ending to the story without being limited by the game status quo, then I think Jinx and Vi's relationship and respective pain should be aknowledge.

I don't think they'll go back to the way they were, but hopefully they can face each other again in the end and then probably part ways and live their lives in a way that is bittersweet.

That said, it is really too soon to say at this point.

Team RWBY (sorry if it's messy)

My favorites are clearly visible and I feel like I'm doing Weiss and Blake dirty, but I can say that I love all of their character arcs. I just find Ruby and Yang's current and potential character arcs so much more compelling, especially with their foundation.

JNR

I didn't really like Nora before her Atlas arc, but now I LOVE her. And Jaune's arc is iconic and I love it and who he has become, but otherwise don't think about him very often. And now I really am doing Ren dirty, but I just don't think about this man very often.

Oscar (do you really need to ask?)

Oscar Pine is one of the greatest additions to this show and I don't care what anyone else says. His character arc and potential arcs and his development in regards to who he is and what the merge will be are just *chef's kiss*

I don't agree. People are welcome to think what they like, of course--I am just stating my opinion. Well, and also @aspoonofsugar's, because we've been chatting about it. So this is partially my thoughts and partially Sugar-chan's!

Themes

I don't think uniting humanity is the biggest theme in RWBY--at least not by itself. I’d say RWBY’s overall theme is becoming human, on a personal level and a humanity level, so uniting is absolutely a major part of that, but not the whole. Think about Cinder, about Penny, about Pyrrha, about Ruby's central statement to Oscar: you're your own person. Of course the theme of unity is present and important, but it is complex, not simplified, which is how RWBY does most themes. @aspoonofsugar's explanation of trust in RWBY explains it really well.

Also, nobody is saying a conversation with the gods won't happen. IMO, it is quite possible, but it'll be very minimal and not a major plot point, and not all humanity will unite to confront them. They might like, take back the relics or something at the end, or watch over Salem as she probably eventually dies/crumbles into dust after letting go and finding peace. But I don't think it'll be a plot point so much as a moment that serves as thematic reinforcement--not even a direct thematic climax. 

The main focus has been Salem and will be Salem, and the play all along has been Ozpin vs Salem. Is Salem's philosophy correct or is Ozpin's? Salem’s philosophy is that everything is futile. Ozpin’s is that one small person can have an impact. That's the main philosophical question of the series, and you don't need to overthrow the gods to emphasize that Ozpin's is best--you might not be able to fix everything instantly, but you can change things as one small person. 

From episode one, where the Narrator is Salem and is immediately countered with Ozpin:

Ozpin (voice over): But perhaps victory is in the simpler things that you've long forgotten. Things that require a smaller, more honest soul.

Their conversation finishes at the end of Act 1 in Beacon:

Narrator: A smaller, more honest soul... It's true that a simple spark can ignite hope, breathe fire into the hearts of the weary. The ability to derive strength from hope is undoubtedly mankind's greatest attribute. Which is why I will focus all of my power... to snuff it out... 

Narrator: How does it feel, knowing that all of your time and effort has been for nothing? That your guardians have failed you? That everything you've built will be torn down before your very eyes? Your faith in mankind was not misplaced. When banded together, unified by a common enemy, they are a noticeable threat. But divide them, place doubt into their minds, and any semblance of power they once had will wash away.

Narrator: Of course, they won't realize it at first. Like you, they'll cling to their fleeting hope, their aspirations. But this is merely the first move.

Narrator: So you send your guardians, your Huntsmen and Huntresses, and when they fail and you turn to your smaller soul, know that you send her to the same pitiful demise.

Narrator: This is the beginning of the end, Ozpin... (she turns her head towards the audience) And I can't wait to watch you burn.

The main conflict from the very first episode has been set up between Oz and Salem, so that’s why it seems clear to me that their conflict is the central one. 

Structure

Now, structurally, RWBY as a story is never structured according to meeting and defeating stronger and stronger enemies. There are no “bosses.” There just aren’t, and I don't anticipate that being reflected in any part of the story. 

Additionally, the difficulty never increases arc by arc. It’s not a video game with like: Beacon easy, Mistral medium, Atlas difficult. Beacon was an all-out defeat, Mistral was more of a victory, and Atlas was a bittersweet tragedy. Through it all, the characters become more and more refined, though. But there is no distinct pattern of Bosses of Increasing Strength to defeat. 

Character

Cinder is probably the most complex character in the story. Salem is also somewhat complex, but not nearly as complex as Cinder. This is a very common structure in storytelling: the complex villain who seems like a big bad only for it to be revealed they are working for the True Big Bad who is less complex but ultimately in control. Like:

Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine

Kylo Ren and Snoke (this one got subverted, and then desubverted) 

Shigaraki and All for One 

Loki and Thanos 

Having the gods turning out to be the real villains puts Salem in Cinder’s role. She frankly just isn’t complex enough for that, and doesn’t have the set up for it. But the main reason this would not work is that it is redundant--it’s not good writing to reuse set ups and tropes when said repetition does not have a thematic point. That then becomes dull and tedious writing. 

Lastly, Sugar says here, basically:

Ruby’s inner conflict which will probably be about Summer Rose is connected to Salem, so it is Cinder’s one because Salem is her evil step-god-mother. Mercury and Emerald have ongoing conflicts with members of Salem’s inner circle.

The whole conflict in Anima and the one we are having in Solitas are all connected to Salem. Raven betrayed her family because of Salem after all and similarly Ironwood has lost himself out of fear for Salem. In each arc the conflict is so rich and layered because it is basically organized around the necessity to avoid Salem getting her hands on a relic. And so on.

In short, Salem works well as a villain of such a long series because she can’t be killed, but at the same time she can be fought. The Gods can’t really be fought, though. This is why if/when they will appear it will be as a way to end Salem’s story, so as a final part of it.

I simply thought you may be interested :), but totally ok if you aren't. Have a nice day!

Everyone, get your butts over here and read this fantastic Yang analysis because it's beautifully constructed, with lots of thought put into it.

WHY HI FRIEND

So in general I think sibling relationships offer incredibly rich potential to a story, but are somewhat underutilized? At least in comparison to other relationships. Or maybe that’s just the kinds of stories I’m drawn to. 

Mo Dao Zu Shi: Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian

Honorary shout-outs to the other siblings in this story, namely Lan Xichen and Lan Wangji and Jiang Yanli’s relationship with both Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian. Sorry Nies ILY but too much tragedy. But I think Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng’s exceedingly complex relationship is one of the best in the novel, and just as thematically rich as Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji’s relationship. I’ve written quite a few metas about the two of them, but overall they’re a great portrayal of brothers who adore each other but whose worst instincts and inability to communicate just how much the other means to them drives them apart... but then they get a second chance. I also interpreted the ending as them slowly moving towards communicating better and reconciling; hence, I loved it. 

Dostoyevsky’s Crime and Punishment: Rodion Raskolnikov and Dunya Raskolnikova

Yes I’m choosing these ones over The Brothers Karamazov mostly because I’m in perpetual mourning for Smerdyakov. I love them. I love them lots. Dunya truly loves Raskolnikov and is about to see through him, to defend herself, and to be kind to Sonia (her foil). What could come across as patriarchal doesn’t because Dunya is just as protective of her brother as he is of her, railing against anyone who speaks ill of him, and much like Rodion is able to see her flaws for what they are (she’s too self-sacrificial), is still able to see her brother’s flaws rather than live in denial of them (unlike their mother). It’s noteworthy that it is Dunya who defeats Svidraigalov, who represents a dark path towards spiraling and destruction, for Rodion. Her steadfast commitment to and honest appraisal of her brother, are, much like Razumihin’s and Sonia’s, key towards Rodion deciding to pursue redemption. 

Hunter x Hunter: Illumi, Milluki, Killua, Alluka, and Kalluto Zoldyck

I’ve written some metas on these brats, too. But I love all five of them and their relationships, even though many of them are severely dysfunctional. They all foil each other in excellent, thematic ways, and all their best traits are the ones their parents use to manipulate them against each other in the guise of protecting each other. 

Frozen: Anna & Elsa 

I wrote a bit about them here, but I actually think the first Frozen (haven’t seen the second) is a wonderful portrayal of two sisters and reconciliation in a relationship. It also very well captures the experience of having a sibling struggling with mental illness you can’t help with--and the feeling of having a mental illness a sibling can’t help you with. 

The Perks of Being a Wallflower: Sam and Patrick

They’re technically stepsiblings, but I love how they take care of each other. They’re both important to Charlie’s journey of healing. 

Harry Potter: The Weasley Siblings

They all have distinct personalities and relationships with each other. Even if I have an issue with fed and George being basically clones of each other, their presence in the story is a delight. Also, I’m never forgiving the movies for omitting Percy, since I really liked his prodigal son subplot. 

Monster: Nina/Anna and Johan

Your recent meta articulates why. But despite the twin stuff, it’s exceedingly well done, and they are both such complex characters that their relationship, from its beginning to the end, get me every time. 

2ha: Mo Ran and Xue Meng 

Yes, actually. I think their brotherly/cousinly relationship is beautiful and hopeful, but it’s hard to articulate exactly why without major spoilers. Let’s just say I enjoyed how they were both foils--neither were who they even thought they themselves were--and they didn’t always like each other, but they learned to love each other. 

To Kill a Mockingbird: Jem and Scout

Let’s add another literature reference here. As problematic as some parts of the novel are, I love their relationship. It captures siblings in all of their complexity, how they get along and don’t, and is innocent yet realistic. 

Tales of Arcadia: Aja and Krel

But also…Shigaraki is not who Eri could have become, but Eri is who Shigaraki could have become if he had been helped. There is a difference. He is not in the story for Eri’s arc, but if anything Eri conveys a specific message which can be applied to Shigaraki. Basically the hierarchy is inverted.

Also, just saying, but Killua clearly doesn’t hate Illumi. That is why it is so difficult for him to properly face his brother. Because he still cares about him even if he doesn’t like how he treats him and doesn’t want to become like him. This is why he cries when Illumi offers to die for him and why he uses Alluka’s powers to simply send him home and not to damage him (that and also he doesn’t want to make Nanika kill people).