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I accidentally did a Wikipedia binge about 1st wave feminism and fashion and stumbled upon the 1890s bicycle suit. Do people know about this? Why didn't anyone tell me about this? This is dope as hell.
Wikipedia talks about the bloomers and the leg-o-mutton sleeves, but I'm also noticing a lot of these outfits have absolute supervillain lapels, which I also like a lot.
the suits have giant lapels because that was the fashion of the time, even outside of the bicycling suit. they go with the giant sleeves and full skirt/pants to make the waist look tiny. you see them on women's jackets of the time worn with skirts. there was a general menswear inspired look that had been trending since the 1880s. there were two major subgroups of western women's fashion going concurrently: menswear inspired tailormades, and really INTENSELY feminine dresses; so you'll also see fluffy ruffled explosions of chiffon and bows in fashion plates.
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Aaaahhh thank you for sending an ask but also how dare you give me the vaguest ask of them all! Too much choice about what to ramble about, so it took a while to settle on one thing since thereβs many Big Fandom Thoughts I have, especially about hazbin as of late
Buuuuut since itβs pride month and also fallenwings week, (at least when I started writing this lmao) I figured Iβd ramble about some silly Lute/Vaggi thoughts I had, specifically what disney song I think fits them best.
For a long while Hellfire from the hunchback of notre dame clearly held that place and still does ( @mwright30313326 animatic for this is fantastic btw). The religious trauma, repressed sexuality and internalised shame and self loathing projected outwards definitely fits Lute really, really well:
Beata Maria
You know I am a righteous man
Of my virtue I am justly proud
(Et tibit Pater)
Beata Maria
You know I'm so much purer than
The common, vulgar, weak, licentious crowd
(Quia peccavi nimis)
Then tell me, Maria
Why I see her dancing there
Why her smold'ring eyes still scorch my soul
(Cogitatione)
I feel her, I see her
The sun caught in her raven hair
Is blazing in me out of all control
(Verbo et opere)
Like fire
Hellfire
This fire in my skin
This burning
Desire
Is turning me to sin
It's not my fault
(Mea culpa)
I'm not to blame
It is the gypsy girl
The witch who sent this flame
(Mea maxima culpa)
It's not my fault
(Mea culpa)
If in God's plan
(Mea culpa)
He made the devil so much
Stronger than a man
(Mea maxima culpa)
However for a Disney duet song between Lute and Vaggi both, one song works perfectly for them imo.
β¦and thatβs I Donβt Dance from High School Musical 2
WAIT WAIT HEAR ME OUT
Obviously this is a much sillier and more light hearted option than Hellfire, but thereβs layers to this song in how very queer coded it is. The subtext (which is not very subtle lmao, the song is full of double entendres, innuendos and LGBT slang, and the director for the movie was an openly gay man himself who confirmed the queer subtext in the movies was intentional, though they could not make it explicit at the time) song I Donβt Dance is about Ryan, a character who was intended to be an openly gay character according to the director Kenny Ortega (turned down by Disney, ofc), help Chad, who is coded as an closeted and repressed bisexual, come to terms with their sexuality, relating to this idea through dance specifically and musical theater in general, trying to teach him how to dance while they play baseball:
CHAD:
If you wanna play ball, then grab a mitt. But I donβt dance.
RYAN:
You donβt think dancing takes some game?
RYAN:
I'll show you that it's one and the same
Baseball, dancing, same game
It's easy
Step up to the place, start swingin
CHAD:
I wanna play ball now, and that's all
This is what I do
It ain't no dance that you can show me, yeah
RYAN
You'll never know
CHAD
Oh I know
RYAN:
If you never try
CHAD:
There's just one little thing
That stops me every time, yeah
RYAN:
Come on!
CHAD:
I don't dance
RYAN:
I know you can
CHAD:
Not a chance, no
RYAN:
If I could do this, well, you could do that
CHAD:
But I don't dance
RYAN:
Hit it out of the park
CHAD:
I don't dance
RYAN:
I say you can
CHAD:
There's not a chance, oh
RYAN:
Slide home, you score, swingin on the dance floor
CHAD
I don't dance, no
RYAN:
Two-steppin, now you're up to bat
Bases loaded, do your dance
It's easy
Take your best shot, just hit itΒ
CHAD:
I've got what it takes, playin my game
So you better spin that pitch
You're gonna throw me, yeah
I'll show you how I swing
(...the next scene of them together after the song ends shows the two having swapped clothes, which shippers often interpret as them having just had gay sex)
Chad is a sports jock who sees a rigid black and white binary of what he can and canβt do, baseball/sports are more masculine interests that fall within the acceptable parameters of what he can like/do, while dancing and musical theater is too effeminate and queer. Ryan tells him baseball and dancing are not so different, and that itβs possible to like both, much like how a personβs sexuality, or in a bigger sense the nature of the world itself, is much more fluid and complex. Chad canβt bring himself to open up to this idea (βthereβs just one little thing that stops me every timeβ) and so outright refuses and ridicules the idea because of his own insecurities, and so unlike Ryan is not able to fully express himself.
Ryan is a theater kid who in the last movie of the trilogy realises how much he loves dance choreography in particular, and in the second movie has him teaching Chad how to dance and choreographing the performance that wins the talent competition.Β Β
The reason this applies so well for Vaggi and Lute is that Vaggi herself is a dancer, itβs how sheβs most comfortable expressing herself (Charlie has singing and Angel Dust has acting, Vaggi has dancing). But sheβs also a fighter, like Lute, and she learns that fighting and dancing are not so different. The climax of her arc in S1 has her go through a dance and fight lesson with Carmilla, where Vaggi starts to reconcile the two different halves of herself as a lover (dancing) and a soldier (fighting).Β
And then in S2 we see her showcase this growth best in her duet song with Charlie in Easy, where she pulls her out of her spiral and finally gets through to her in the language she speaks best, dance!
(...which also acts as a metaphor for them having gay sex and doing the βdevilβs tangoβ)Β
Β Which ofc you already know because Iβve read your fantastic metas on Vaggiβs arc.Β
Much like Chad, Lute is very much coded as a repressed bisexual and a lot of her internalised biphobia/homophobia is directed outwards in lashing out at Vaggi, who is open and comfortable in her sexuality as a gay woman. Both are exorcist soldiers who are expected to conform to a certain standard, they all wear the same uniform and keep their hair short, being seen as too emotional or empathetic is a deviance and weakness that is punished, that Lute herself enforces when sheβs sees any one stepping outside the status quo:
So thereβs a very specific repression of the expression of gender and sexuality going on with the exorcists, that can mirror that of high school sport jocks, Adding on to this is Adam being their commander, who wore a jacket that is deliberately meant to be styled like a letterman varsity jacket, that a jock/sports captain would wear, fitting with his toxic macho persona, and who is the one placing these expectations on to them.Β
Chad is also likeβ¦ So obsessed, especially in the first movie, with every one sticking to the status quo and resents the idea of change or people *gasp* having more than one interest outside of their specific clique, because of how it threatens his way of life. And spends most of the movie trying to discourage Troy from pursuing musical theater alongside basketball. This is pretty much a recurring theme for the HSM trilogy, are you defined by one thing? Or is it possible to be and do more?Β
No, no, no, no
No, no, no
Stick to the stuff you know
It is better by far to keep things as they are
Don't mess with the flow, no, no
Stick to the status quoΒ
Lute: β« What are we even talkin' about? β«
β« Some crack-whore who fucked up already? β«
β« He blew his shot, like the cocks in his mouth β«
[Lute stands up and puts her Exorcist mask on.]
β«This discussion is senseless and pettyβ«
[Both Adam and Lute fly up in front of Charlie, before flying over to and landing on the orb.]
Lute and Adam: β«There's no question to be posedβ«
β«He's unholy, case closedβ«
β« Did you forget that "Hell is forever"? β«
And this goes for the exorcists with Lute and Vaggi. Lute clings to the status quo of heaven, of Adamβs black and white ideology, angels never make mistakes and those that do are unworthy of heaven, and sinners are defined by their mistakes and cannot be more than that. To her, they are as different as night and day
Charlie: But these are souls...Human souls just the same as the ones you have up in heaven.
Lute: (coldly)Β They are not the same. They had their chance and they earned damnation.
Charlie: You're wrong. Sinners made mistakes, sure, but everyone makes mistakes.
Lute: Angels don't make mistakes.
Charlie: You really think that.
Lute: I know that.
And Lute has to believe that, because if winners and sinners arenβt so different, then her lifeβs purpose as a soldier and exorcist means nothing, and by extension she would be nothing. Itβs a direct threat to her way of life.Β
But Vaggi shows that it doesnβt have to mean nothing. Her skills and experience as a soldier and exorcist still very much play a part in her life and come in use many times, including her trust exercise in S1:
Vaggie: No. I told you you could trust me, and I'm not going to let you down. [walks away from Charlie] I just need to teach them, the way I was taught...
[As she said this, Vaggie smiles with excitement when she has the perfect trust exercise for all of them.]
[The scene changes to the group standing on a rooftop with half-destroyed buildings all around them. Everyone was shocked that the exercise has taken them to a live turf war battlefield with guns blazing in the background, demons screaming, and explosions booming.]
Charlie: *shouting over the other demons' screaming* THIS IS HOW YOU LEARNED TO TRUST PEOPLE?!
[Back at the rooftop, Vaggie makes a drill sergeant march.]
Vaggie: *drill sergeant style* There is nothing stronger than the trust between comrades in arms. Buckle up, buttercups, because today you boys become men!
[There is a loud explosion in the background, sending shockwaves that sways Vaggie's hair with a satisfying smile. Vaggie advances on Sir Pentious]
Vaggie: You, *picks up Sir Pentious*
Sir Pentious: Wait, wait! I can't fight without my minions-
Vaggie: Are gonna survive together!
[Vaggie throws Sir Pentious off the building before turning to Angel Dust]
Vaggie: And you, (Angel Dust: D-don't you even think about it-) are gonna make this hotel work!
(I love the implication that sheβs taken what Lute wouldβve taught her as her lieutenant in the military and trying to imitate her while running the training exercise)
Charlie: *grabs Vaggie's hand* No, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I put pressure on you. We work as a team. I guess I just thought all this would be easier, but, we'll figure it out, together. I mean, look what your exercise did for them.Β
And running the hotel in S2:
Vaggie: Thanks for signing the guest book. [To herself] This is like being in the army.Β
But sheβs not defined by that alone anymore, sheβs grown to be more and to explore different sides of herself, and is a lot more confident and happy as a result. And if thatβs possible for Vaggi, then itβs possible for Lute, too.
Vaggi and Lute use military terms in both their songs in S2 which youβve pointed out:Β
Lute: Iβve still got a job to do my missionβs incomplete
Only a traitor could consider making peace
Vaggi: My hand, your hand, your body in mine, they can withstand the firing line
And going back to I Donβt Dance, the song is filled with overlapping baseball and dance terminology to convey the integration between the two different sides of sports and musical theatre, along with the progressive choreography of them dancing while playing baseball:
RYAN:
Slide home, you score, swingin on the dance floor
CHAD:
I don't dance, noΒ
RYAN:
Lean back, tuck it in, take a chance
Swing it out, spin around, do the dance
CHAD:
I wanna play ball, not dance hall
I'm makinβ a triple, not a curtain callΒ
And Ryan challenging Chad by pointing out that dancing isnβt inferior and doesnβt make you lesser just because itβs seen as queer/effeminate in being too expressive, and in fact makes you more, because youβre capable of more than the one thing you were told you could be and do:
RYAN:
I can prove it to you til you know it's true
'Cause I can swing it, I can bring it to the diamond tooΒ
In the same way Vaggi being more feminine and expressive in her appearance than when in the army, open about her sexuality and who she loves, as well as being a dancer, doesnβt make her weaker or any less capable of a fighter than Lute. It makes her more, because sheβs grown outside the confines of what she was told she could be and do. Which comes up with her challenging Luteβs worldview in the S1 finale:
Vaggi: Seriously, you're pathetic, you know that? Ready to die rather than accepting mercy? No. Live. Live, knowing that you only do because I let you. The failure.Β
But weβre obviously not done with these two yet and their foiling in the series. I feel the natural climax of Vaggiβs arc is trying to teach Lute what sheβs learned, as the girls are mirrors of one another. They cannot deny or kill each other, because to do that would be to kill part of themselves. So how do they reconcile? How can Vaggi teach Lute what sheβs learned? My answer would be a dance lesson like the one Carmilla gives Vaggi. Like Ryan gives Chad. (I have some thoughts on how a reprise of Out for Love would go for Vaggi/Lute, but thatβs gonna be in another post cos this is already getting out of hand for what is essentially a jokey rambling semi-serious analysis)Β
In conclusion, Iβm predicting Vaggi and Lute having a homerotic dance fight, where a flustered and frustrated Lute keeps trying to fight Vaggi and a smug Vaggi keeps pulling her into a dance lesson instead, which ultimately is a tipping point for Lute finally coming to terms with her own bisexuality and realising she can be more than just a soldier (half joking/half serious prediction but it's fun to imagine)
Β thatβs my silly fandom ramble I guess, hope you enjoyed! And thanks again for sending the ask!
I was thinking to comment through tags, but it was becoming rather long, so I used a reblog instead :') (synthesis ain't one of my talents).
Anyway, I have no regrets about the vagueness of the ask 'cause I would have never thought up this kind of question and I love your exploration of this. I also would have liked your other topics, but I'll admit I have yet to watch the Utena Movie (I just love the series too much <3). The Velvette/Lute thoughts also interest me a lot, 'cause they could connect with my season 1 thoughts about Velvette and Vaggi and I was just wondering if maybe the Heaven characters will get more focus in season 4 aka the supposedly Velvette's season on the Vees' side of things.
That said, going back to your post, I love both the idea of an Out For Love Reprise with Vaggi and Lute and the idea of Vaggi's fight with Lute turning into a dance lesson at one point. It also makes me wonder more about Heaven's Musical motif and how it could relate to Lute specifically. In any case, I think our disaster girl needs a dance lesson asap, I mean:
What exactly is this angry stomping Lute? :P (Meanwhile Vaggi beautifully dancing combining salsa and tango)
I also really appreciated the HSM exploration to be honest. I have watched the movies years ago and never thought about them too deeply. I had no idea about the Director's intentions about Ryan and how Disney went in the way (I mean the coding is pretty clear, but I never researched the whole story). The detail of the hat is also great. I also remember loving Ryan's evolution throughout the movie, he was my favorite so it is nice to have this analysis.
Finally, I love your point about Hellfire and Lute's repressed sexuality. When it comes to it, I can't help, but to think about Gravity because:
1- I think Sam Haft confirmed somewhere Hellfire was one of the inspirations for Gravity. They wanted to explore Lute's bigotry and white and black mentality, while keeping the religious element (hence the Gregorian chant). It is fun because I think they started with hellfire and then decided to make Lute's outburst a storm and to focus on the element of water in what is basically an inversion.
2-As you said, Hellfire is about Frollo's repressed sexuality. He is attracted to Esmeralda, but can't deal with these feelings because he sees them as impure. The end result is that he lashes out at Esmeralda and decides to burn her. I agree that Lute's outburst against Charlie and Vaggi may very well be about Lute's repressed sexual attraction to women. About this, when I watched the music video together with @hamliet for the first time, her first thoughts on the song were literally "oh, so Lute likes women" :'). She pointed out that Lute literally keeps stabbing yonic objects with pointed weapons throughout the whole first part of Gravity :''')
Moreover, considering the records are meant to call back Vaggi's eye, well... things start coming together.
In any case, your analysis was a treat, so I just wanted to show my appreciation and share thoughts! Have a great evening :)
The symbolism in the video is NOT subtle, and I know people are gonna say it's reaching, but it really isn't. Hazbin uses a ton of... Jungian/Freudian symbolism, both yonic and phallic, and this song's pretty sharp with it.
Lute is literally singing about Vaggi and Charlie's love, and the moment the below line begins:
Take the one you need, make you watch 'em bleed (Vindictus)
As she sings about making someone bleed (keep in mind that blood is also associated with female sexuality), we see Lute stab a knife (phallic object) into canvas, cutting some very yonic looking flaps while she sings the rest of these lines which are all about Vaggi and Charlie's lesbian love.
We also see her literally through these flaps, implying that maybe that's a lens through which we should view her character.
But that's not all. The lyrics continue:
Will you break thinkin' how you couldn't save her?
Wishin' you were there when they needed you
The only soul who's ever completed you
Maybe then, you'll get a little heated too
("Heated" is a verbal pun for being turned on, and that's the least symbolic of this part.)
As she sings these lyrics Lute turns away from the yonic symbolism and towards Adam's hallucination, which rises in front of her as she's adopted a begging posture. The problem is she's begging Adam herself, and then doesn't symbolically save him.
She actually symbolically kills him.
And understand why this is what I need to do
As she sings that, you see her atop Adam in a potentially sexual pose, stabbing him with the same phallic symbol (dagger). Penetration, adopting Niffty's role (which symbolically could comment on just how she knows, deep down, she was treated... like someone lowly; that might be reaching though). Except Lute stabs Adam in the heart, not the genitals. Maybe because... while she did love Adam, sexual attraction may or may not have been a part of it.
What she feels for him is desperation, rage, and love all at once. But thinking of the lesbians happy enrages her and she can't let that stand.
What are you expecting from Hazbin Hotel season 3?
Hi!
Long story short, I am expecting everyone to spiral a little. I think season 2 foreshadows this with Vox becoming so powerful because of the main characters losing to their flaws. Well, season 3 will be the same, but on a bigger and deeper scale. Season 2 shed some light on WHAT the characters' problems are. Season 3 is hopefully going to tackle WHY the characters have these problems. Something similar is probably going to happen with the plot. Season 1 and season 2 are the first arc of the story that deals with the exterminations. In the second part of the series we are going to discover why the exterminations were a thing to begin with. Season 3 is going to be the starting point of this exploration, which will lead us to what Hazbin Hotel is truly about.
Now, speaking of the five main characters this is what I am more or less expecting from them in terms of arcs' trajectories:
Charlie - Lilith's arrival is going to re-start her spiral and we are going to go deeper into her issues.
Lucifer - Lilith's arrival will make his issues worse and will probably lead him closer to the HUGE break-down season 1 and especially season 2 set him up to have.
Vaggi - She is the one character that I think needs more build-up before we can go deeper into her story. She has had huge focus in season 1 and season 2 showed the fruit of her development, while highlighting she still has flaws to deal with (going behind Charlie's back plus internalized violence). I think season 3 might do some set up for her, which will be fully explored in season 4 (aka the golden season, which I am expecting will focus more on Heaven characters). That said, I am sure we will start seeing more of her issues already next season.
Alastor - He is going to start the season in a very happy and high place, but he has been postponing his growth for two seasons now. I am expecting consequences to start catching up to him next season, maybe in its second half. I would not be surprised if he will have to grapple with them throughout season 4, as well.
Angel - He is going to be Alastor's opposite imo. He is going to start the season at rock bottom (for obvious reasons), but he is probably the character that will have the most positive arc. That is for two reasons 1) His starting point will be very very low, so he kinda needs to get better and 2) The A plot will probably start spiraling out of control, so we need the B plot to give us some positive outcome or we'll die :P. Now, Charlie is the protagonist of the A plot and Vaggi is its deuteragonist. Angel is unique since he is the protagonist of his own B plot, which is really the B plot of the whole series. Basically his development is not constricted by the A plot, like the other major characters' is.
I will now try to go a little bit deeper on what I am expecting thematically and character wise. I will focus more on the A plot and the Morningstars, both because they are my favorites and because after Erika's two recent interviews I have more thoughts on them.
LILITH, CHARLIE AND LUCIFER
Season 3 is going to focus on the Morningstars' family drama. Specifically, Lilith coming back will destroy Charlie and Lucifer's new found equilibrium. Now, I don't think for a second Lilith is evil or just a bitch. However, as @hamliet wisely said, Lilith has been presented as a goal and a solution for too long. This means her coming back needs to temporally make her loved ones' lives worse. As a matter of fact not only Charlie, but Lucifer too have been idealizing Lilith and looking up to her:
Charlie sees her mom as a goddess and I think Lucifer sees her as his emotional support, at least on some extent. At the same time, Lilith has made both father and daughter feel meaningless:
Charlie:Β Mom would know what to do. She was always so good at this. Staying calm, being the voice of the people. Being the center of attention with everyone looking to her, to follow her. Ignoring meaningless things. And people.
Lucifer:Β Yep. She was, uh, so good at that.
I think both deep down think that if Lilith were to come back their lives will be fixed. Except that it is not so easy.
Charlie's issues are deeply rooted in her family and in both her bonds with Lilith AND Lucifer. So, her mom coming back should lead us to discover more about their family dynamic and how it shaped Charlie.
Lucifer needs to grow up, which means he needs a conflict with Lilith, so that he can grow outside of their relationship and fully become an adult (and a father).
CHARLIE, VAGGI AND LUCIFER
According to Erika, Charlie next season will regress in an attempt to win Lilith's love. This means she will most likely not listen to anyone else (her major flaw is "not listening" after all) and will push away her two flawed guardian angels again. Vaggi and Lucifer are emotionally very important for Charlie.
In season 1:
Charlie's emotional arc lies into getting to know them better; she discovers Lucifer's inner light and Vaggi's inner shadow
Vaggi and Lucifer fail her in episode 1X7 and leave her prey of Alastor that manipulates Charlie into a deal
Vaggi and Lucifer are the reason why Charlie wins the final fight, since they take down Charlie's most dangerous foes (Lute and Adam)
Vaggi and Lucifer emotionally support Charlie before and after the fight through reprising two of her songs
In season 2:
Vaggi and Lucifer are the only two people Charlie is able to open up to about Lilith
Charlie is able to pull herself together after a chat with Lucifer (2X1) and a chat with Vaggi (2x6); they both helped her find her voice again
Charlie reaches the climax of her spiral in 2x5 where she lashes out at Vaggi and Lucifer
So, yeah, the two fallen angels are key for our Princess. Season 3 will probably have Charlie go into deeper conflicts with them. Both conflicts will take what happened in season 2 and make it deeper.
When it comes to Lucifer, it is obvious Charlie has some repressed negative feelings towards him (understandably). Her telling him how much he fucked her life up was clearly not just about 2X5. That was a moment where Charlie hinted at a much deeper anger towards her dad. In general, there is the fact Charlie has made abundantly clear she prefers her mom over her dad:
Vaggie: Did you hear from your mom yet? (...) Oof⦠how long has it been now? Charlie: Not that long, only...seven....years, off doing something important, I'm sure!
Charlie:Β No, we just have never been close. After he andΒ momΒ split, he never really wanted to see me. He calls... sometimes, but only if he's bored or like, needs me to do something.
Both Lilith and Lucifer are neglectful, but Charlie is able to call out Lucifer's flaws and absence for what it is much easier. She tends to justify Lilith, while she is able to condemn Lucifer from the get go (sure, this does not stop her from being very patient and to show Lucifer a lot of grace). Moreover, she clearly looks up to Lilith, much more than she does to Lucifer:
Vaggie:Β Maybe it's time-
Charlie:Β NO.
Vaggie:Β to ask-
[Charlie gets up close to Vaggie's face, holding her cheeks desperately.]
Charlie:Β DON'T SAY IT.
Vaggie:Β your dad.
[Charlie groans, knowing what this means for her.]
Vaggie:Β Charlie, I know you don't want to, but we need every advantage we can get.
Charlie:Β Hey, Mom, it's me. Again. I'm... I'm sorry to bother you, but I'm so overwhelmed right now. Look, the hotel is full, which is great, but the sinners are here for the wrong reasons. They want to kill angels, which is the opposite of what I stand for, a-and I know you wanted demons to be empowered, but this is... This is the wrong way, and I'd love some... advice, maybe, if you have time, um... yeah.
There is also what Charlie tells Lilith about Lucifer in her messages:
Charlie: Anyway... Uh, me and Dad are talking again. He;s not so bad, and he... he misses you.Β
Charlie: I think you'd be really proud. Dad's proud.
On the one hand it is obvious Charlie wants her parents to get back together. On the other hand Charlie feels the need to underline that Lucifer is "not so bad", which hints there might have been some tensions between him and Lilith. It is as if Charlie were trying to paint her dad in a positive light to make her mom more understanding of him. As for now, it is unknown if this is just Charlie's flawed understanding of Lucifer and Lilith's dynamic or if her words hint at something deeper going on between the two Morningstars. Whatever the case, I think Lilith's return will re-awake some unhealthy coping mechanisms all three Morningstars were employing in their dynamic. I would not be surprised if these coping mechanisms would lead Charlie's negative feelings towards Lucifer to surface.
When it comes to Vaggi, it is possible Vaggi may not like Lilith very much initially. As the wise @hamliet once again said, when you see a loved one suffer because of another person, you tend not to like that person very much. Even if it may not have been Lilith's intention, it is obvious she has hurt Charlie deeply. Moreover, it is possible Lilith and Vaggi could actually be very similar. Just like Charlie has trouble with Lucifer because of how similar they are, Vaggi may dislike the part of herself she sees in Lilith (like their shared tendency to keep secrets from their loved ones, for example :P). Or maybe I am wrong and Lilith and Vaggi are going to get along so well, Charlie may get jealous. Alternatively, Charlie's goal to make Lilith recognize her may get in the way of Vaggi's new leadership of the Hazbin Hotel and create some conflict. In any case, I hope it is the first option because for the two women Charlie adores the most to not get along would be just DELICIOUS. Plus, it would make Vaggi and Lilith developing a bond much more meaningful.
ALASTOR
Ironically, Alastor may be the only person Charlie is going to listen to other than Lilith. That is because of several reasons.
1-I don't think Alastor will antagonize Lilith, but he will probably use the rising conflicts among the Morningstars to pursue his and Rosie's agenda.
2-Alastor is Charlie's evil mentor and she fully trusts him because up until now he has always been helping her, even if in his own way. All in all, he has been more dependable than Charlie's own parents.
The problem is that this time around Charlie listening to Alastor may not be the best thing ever. As a matter of fact our Radio Demon is an Evil Mentor and next season the focus is probably going to be on his EVIL side. Alastor has his own goals in mind and he is probably going to become more antagonistic soon. He is the shadow and will prey on people's insecurities. This is going to be true especially for both Charlie and Lucifer (even if he may also target Vaggi as a little treat).
Charlie is Alastor's protegee and his conflict next season is going to be between his feelings of affection for her and Rosie's schemes that may hurt Charlie.
Alastor has been preying on Lucifer's insecurities since the get go and season 2 finale implies he will target the King of Hell more directly (again probably to get Rosie what she wants). There is also the fact Alastor and Lucifer are clearly meant to become friends and to integrate 'cause they are projecting on each other their own problems. So, they better start their frenemies arc :P
PURPLE AND GREEN
Overall I am expecting the conflict next season to be about Lilith and Alastor screwing everyone else over because of a bigger game nobody has any idea it is even being played :P Obviously this game is going to go back to Rosie and what she exactly wants from the Morningstars:
The details in this frame are pretty fun. Alastor is sitting on a bench that "commemorates" Susan. Except that the inscription is actually an insult: "In memory of Susan - I wish she'd die again". This fits Rosie's overall style, where the nicest she acts the most dangerous she is. Given this context, the "celebrative" Morningstar Family statue looks pretty ominous.
This struggle would also explain why season 3 is called the purple and green season.
Lilith is associated with purple:
Lilith has so far been seen wearing purple clothes (both this dress and her swimsuit). She also has a purple hat and a purple phone. So, yeah, I think her color scheme will include purple :P
Alastor is associated with green:
Alastor's magic has been consistently depicted as green.
Since Alastor is going to basically be Rosie's man on the inside I wonder if "green" could also be associated with her, even if indirectly. After all, green is the color of "envy" and who knows... maybe Rosie envies Lilith on some level. We'll see.
Finally, let me point out that at the end of season 2 Valentino appears dressed like this:
Valentino wears many different outfits, but typically his color scheme is much redder rather than purple. However, here he is wearing both a purple jacket and a purple hat and he is sitting on a purple throne. Maybe he is going ot be associated to purple too next season. In this context, purple may be the color linked to power and to characters our protagonists (Charlie and Angel) may need to overcome (and no, I don't mean Lilith is a villain or terrible like Val).
CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR
In season 2 Charlie's spiral starts when she discovers Sir Pentious got redeemed, which confirms Charlie's ideals and vision of the world. She is proven right and thinks this will automatically fix everything, but it is not the case and things start getting worse.
I think season 3 is going to do something similar, but on a more personal level. After all, Charlie explains to Vaggi that deep down she thinks that if she makes the Hazbin Hotel work Lilith will come back. Basically she believes that if she fixes Hell (the macrocosm), her mom will come back and fix both her family (the microcosm) and Charlie (the self). Well, guess what happens? Charlie fixes the conflict between Hell and Heaven and five minutes later Lilith calls her:
Once again the narrative rewards Charlie and seems to prove she was right all along, but was she? Lilith coming back just after Charlie has solved the exterminations will not be the neat happy ending Charlie thinks. This could be interesting for two reasons.
1- REDEMPTION AND LOVE
Lilith coming back as a "reward" for Charlie being a "good daughter" may temporally strengthen Charlie's understanding of love, which is clearly conditional. Let me explain, Charlie loves others unconditionally, but she herself feels she can be loved only if she is GOOD. This is why she struggles so much with violence and negative feelings:
Charlie:Β Just, angry, because we share everything, because she always supported me, and my ideas, and-and- and now, I don't know whether or not that was just more of the lies! *gasp* Oh no that's a horrible thing to think! Do i think that?! Yes! N-no. Kinda?
Oh no, what a horrible person I am for being angry because MY PARTNER FOR THREE YEARS lied to me about her violent past! How can I be suspicious of her intentions even for a moment? BAD CHARLIE!
Obviously this conditional understanding of love stems from her upbringing. To be clear, I think Lucifer and Lilith love Charlie unconditionally, but they probably made her believe their love is conditional on some level. As for why and how this happened we'll have to wait and see, but it may stem from Lucifer and Lilith's feelings of pride and shame.
It is not a secret that Hell's Royal Family is intertwined with the theme of pride. All three Morningstars are prideful as a way to hide their issues and traumas. Lucifer and Lilith unwillingly broke the world, which clearly left a sign on both. It may be that husband and wife are dealing with this trauma in opposite ways:
Lucifer feels so ashamed he decides to give up on everything and everyone. He is bad, a failure and a mistake, so why should he help others? He will just hurt them in the long run. Obviously he projects these feelings of shame on the Sinners and on Charlie. In season 1 Lucifer is so isolated in self-shame that Charlie fully believes he does not care about her. She thinks Lucifer may be ashamed of her too.
Lilith's reaction is more speculative since we have still to meet her. That said, it is possible she may feel so responsible for the world breaking that her coping mechanism is... to fix it. She may have incredibly high expectations for herself that she might have been projecting on Charlie.
So, Charlie may have found herself between her father's shame and her mother's pride. The end result is that she has probably internalized both a sense of self-loathing and the idea she must be the one to fix everything. In short, she is clearly the victim of a huge generational trauma. After all, how would you feel if your parents were responsible for the birth of Evil? That is something that is gonna put a lot of pressure on you.
I don't know how deep we are going to go in the generational trauma aspect of things. That said, this set-up and the focus on conditional love explains Charlie's approach to redemption perfectly.
Charlie believes that if she is a good enough girl, Lilith will love her, so she takes this understanding of love and applies it on a cosmic level. If Sinners become good enough people, God will love them and they will be redeemed. Easy peasy! In short, Charlie sees God as a loving parent, but somehow their love is still conditional :P
And yet, I highly doubt this is the case and Charlie's understanding of redemption will probably be about discovering that God loves everyone unconditionally. The real issue is people's self-loathing. Redemption isn't about becoming "a good citizen", but about becoming the best version of one-self, which is all about self-love and self-forgiveness. It is about overcoming a vision of the world rooted in guilt, which has the potential to be a very powerful message.
(And yes, obviously this has the chance to address the fact Hell has clearly internalized that they are the "bad guys" to Heaven's "good guys", even as Heaven commits atrocities. It is clearly a belief so deeply rooted in the people of Hell that they all still want to go to Heaven, despite the many hints that Heaven kinda sucks. I mean, Charlie is still more forgiving than Sera than she is of Lucifer for them basically failing in the same way in 2x5; and yet, Sera actively ordered the exterminations and refused to halt them when Charlie begged her to in 1x6. So why does Charlie have so much hope in her? Easy, 'cause she is the High Seraphim of Heaven :P SHE HAS TO BE GOOD)
2- GOODBYE CHILDHOOD
Charlie sees Lilith coming back as her "happily ever after". The fact that it will mark the beginning of THE REAL MAJOR CONFLICT OF THE STORY is bound to crush Charlie's understanding of the world.
Charlie has been living in her personal fairy tale, that is the Story of Hell:
She sees herself as the heroic princess with a legendary legacy, which is bound to save her Kingdom and to restore happiness. Except that she is clearly a twist on these kinds of characters. For starters, these Princesses are usually the daughters of wise and good Kings and Queens that love their children deeply and are removed from the throne and separated from their children by the bad guys. However, the brave Princesses fight, claim the throne back and are finally reunited with their perfect missing parents. Charlie has unconsciously been clinging to such a narrative as a coping mechanism.
However, her story is different. Lucifer and Lilith are neither good Royals nor good parents. They are separated from her because of some Evil Guy. They are bad Royals and bad parents, that love deeply, but are also flawed in how they love. Charlie will be forced to realize this. She may have to address her feelings of anger and shame towards them.
Just to be clear, Charlie clearly knows this on some extent when it comes to Lucifer. Still, she has yet to fully verbalize and show it. Moreover, Lucifer's flaws make so that Charlie ABSOLUTELY NEEDS Lilith to be perfectly perfect in every way. Sure, her dad kinda sucks, but HER MOM IS SO GREAT THAT SHE CLEARLY COMPENSATES. This is why discovering Lucifer's issues may be worse than she thinks and that Lilith may not be without flaw would crush her. This may also be why she may initially lash out more at Lucifer, rather than Lilith. Lilith is GOOD and can't absolutely be BAD or it will destroy Charlie's world and sense of self. So, she may need someone she can project her negative feelings about her on. In other words, if there is going to be a problem in their family, Charlie may blame her dad and even herself more than she does Lilith.
Of course, this is all speculation and we have no idea of what the Morningstar family's dynamic will be like (there is also the whole Evil and Lucifer's thing that has been hinted in 1x8). What's sure is that Charlie's fairy tail is going to be deconstructed and broken. After all, leaving the fairy tale behind to face a grey reality is a very strong metaphor for growing up (as Utena proves :P).
LILITH
A final paragraph on Lilith, 'cause I think people may believe I hate her and I am expecting her to be the worst... I really don't. I have simply not much to comment about her outside of the conflict she is going to bring because... we have yet to meet her. We have no idea of her personality nor her goals. Personally, I hope she is going to explore and to comment Charlie's idealism. Charlie is sometimes so focused on ideas that she forgets about the people. I think Lilith might be a more extreme version of this. If this were the case, her foiling with Lucifer and his old idealism would also be interesting. After all, right now Lucifer is mostly motivated by his personal relationships (like Vaggi). Still, was it always the case? Was he also a flawed idealist that lost people in his ideals? Were his issues different? Or was he always strongly motivated by his bonds? So, was Lilith the one always more motivated by fixing the world? I am looking forward to know more!
Aaaahhh thank you for sending an ask but also how dare you give me the vaguest ask of them all! Too much choice about what to ramble about, so it took a while to settle on one thing since thereβs many Big Fandom Thoughts I have, especially about hazbin as of late
Buuuuut since itβs pride month and also fallenwings week, (at least when I started writing this lmao) I figured Iβd ramble about some silly Lute/Vaggi thoughts I had, specifically what disney song I think fits them best.
For a long while Hellfire from the hunchback of notre dame clearly held that place and still does ( @mwright30313326 animatic for this is fantastic btw). The religious trauma, repressed sexuality and internalised shame and self loathing projected outwards definitely fits Lute really, really well:
Beata Maria
You know I am a righteous man
Of my virtue I am justly proud
(Et tibit Pater)
Beata Maria
You know I'm so much purer than
The common, vulgar, weak, licentious crowd
(Quia peccavi nimis)
Then tell me, Maria
Why I see her dancing there
Why her smold'ring eyes still scorch my soul
(Cogitatione)
I feel her, I see her
The sun caught in her raven hair
Is blazing in me out of all control
(Verbo et opere)
Like fire
Hellfire
This fire in my skin
This burning
Desire
Is turning me to sin
It's not my fault
(Mea culpa)
I'm not to blame
It is the gypsy girl
The witch who sent this flame
(Mea maxima culpa)
It's not my fault
(Mea culpa)
If in God's plan
(Mea culpa)
He made the devil so much
Stronger than a man
(Mea maxima culpa)
However for a Disney duet song between Lute and Vaggi both, one song works perfectly for them imo.
β¦and thatβs I Donβt Dance from High School Musical 2
WAIT WAIT HEAR ME OUT
Obviously this is a much sillier and more light hearted option than Hellfire, but thereβs layers to this song in how very queer coded it is. The subtext (which is not very subtle lmao, the song is full of double entendres, innuendos and LGBT slang, and the director for the movie was an openly gay man himself who confirmed the queer subtext in the movies was intentional, though they could not make it explicit at the time) song I Donβt Dance is about Ryan, a character who was intended to be an openly gay character according to the director Kenny Ortega (turned down by Disney, ofc), help Chad, who is coded as an closeted and repressed bisexual, come to terms with their sexuality, relating to this idea through dance specifically and musical theater in general, trying to teach him how to dance while they play baseball:
CHAD:
If you wanna play ball, then grab a mitt. But I donβt dance.
RYAN:
You donβt think dancing takes some game?
RYAN:
I'll show you that it's one and the same
Baseball, dancing, same game
It's easy
Step up to the place, start swingin
CHAD:
I wanna play ball now, and that's all
This is what I do
It ain't no dance that you can show me, yeah
RYAN
You'll never know
CHAD
Oh I know
RYAN:
If you never try
CHAD:
There's just one little thing
That stops me every time, yeah
RYAN:
Come on!
CHAD:
I don't dance
RYAN:
I know you can
CHAD:
Not a chance, no
RYAN:
If I could do this, well, you could do that
CHAD:
But I don't dance
RYAN:
Hit it out of the park
CHAD:
I don't dance
RYAN:
I say you can
CHAD:
There's not a chance, oh
RYAN:
Slide home, you score, swingin on the dance floor
CHAD
I don't dance, no
RYAN:
Two-steppin, now you're up to bat
Bases loaded, do your dance
It's easy
Take your best shot, just hit itΒ
CHAD:
I've got what it takes, playin my game
So you better spin that pitch
You're gonna throw me, yeah
I'll show you how I swing
(...the next scene of them together after the song ends shows the two having swapped clothes, which shippers often interpret as them having just had gay sex)
Chad is a sports jock who sees a rigid black and white binary of what he can and canβt do, baseball/sports are more masculine interests that fall within the acceptable parameters of what he can like/do, while dancing and musical theater is too effeminate and queer. Ryan tells him baseball and dancing are not so different, and that itβs possible to like both, much like how a personβs sexuality, or in a bigger sense the nature of the world itself, is much more fluid and complex. Chad canβt bring himself to open up to this idea (βthereβs just one little thing that stops me every timeβ) and so outright refuses and ridicules the idea because of his own insecurities, and so unlike Ryan is not able to fully express himself.
Ryan is a theater kid who in the last movie of the trilogy realises how much he loves dance choreography in particular, and in the second movie has him teaching Chad how to dance and choreographing the performance that wins the talent competition.Β Β
The reason this applies so well for Vaggi and Lute is that Vaggi herself is a dancer, itβs how sheβs most comfortable expressing herself (Charlie has singing and Angel Dust has acting, Vaggi has dancing). But sheβs also a fighter, like Lute, and she learns that fighting and dancing are not so different. The climax of her arc in S1 has her go through a dance and fight lesson with Carmilla, where Vaggi starts to reconcile the two different halves of herself as a lover (dancing) and a soldier (fighting).Β
And then in S2 we see her showcase this growth best in her duet song with Charlie in Easy, where she pulls her out of her spiral and finally gets through to her in the language she speaks best, dance!
(...which also acts as a metaphor for them having gay sex and doing the βdevilβs tangoβ)Β
Β Which ofc you already know because Iβve read your fantastic metas on Vaggiβs arc.Β
Much like Chad, Lute is very much coded as a repressed bisexual and a lot of her internalised biphobia/homophobia is directed outwards in lashing out at Vaggi, who is open and comfortable in her sexuality as a gay woman. Both are exorcist soldiers who are expected to conform to a certain standard, they all wear the same uniform and keep their hair short, being seen as too emotional or empathetic is a deviance and weakness that is punished, that Lute herself enforces when sheβs sees any one stepping outside the status quo:
So thereβs a very specific repression of the expression of gender and sexuality going on with the exorcists, that can mirror that of high school sport jocks, Adding on to this is Adam being their commander, who wore a jacket that is deliberately meant to be styled like a letterman varsity jacket, that a jock/sports captain would wear, fitting with his toxic macho persona, and who is the one placing these expectations on to them.Β
Chad is also likeβ¦ So obsessed, especially in the first movie, with every one sticking to the status quo and resents the idea of change or people *gasp* having more than one interest outside of their specific clique, because of how it threatens his way of life. And spends most of the movie trying to discourage Troy from pursuing musical theater alongside basketball. This is pretty much a recurring theme for the HSM trilogy, are you defined by one thing? Or is it possible to be and do more?Β
No, no, no, no
No, no, no
Stick to the stuff you know
It is better by far to keep things as they are
Don't mess with the flow, no, no
Stick to the status quoΒ
Lute: β« What are we even talkin' about? β«
β« Some crack-whore who fucked up already? β«
β« He blew his shot, like the cocks in his mouth β«
[Lute stands up and puts her Exorcist mask on.]
β«This discussion is senseless and pettyβ«
[Both Adam and Lute fly up in front of Charlie, before flying over to and landing on the orb.]
Lute and Adam: β«There's no question to be posedβ«
β«He's unholy, case closedβ«
β« Did you forget that "Hell is forever"? β«
And this goes for the exorcists with Lute and Vaggi. Lute clings to the status quo of heaven, of Adamβs black and white ideology, angels never make mistakes and those that do are unworthy of heaven, and sinners are defined by their mistakes and cannot be more than that. To her, they are as different as night and day
Charlie: But these are souls...Human souls just the same as the ones you have up in heaven.
Lute: (coldly)Β They are not the same. They had their chance and they earned damnation.
Charlie: You're wrong. Sinners made mistakes, sure, but everyone makes mistakes.
Lute: Angels don't make mistakes.
Charlie: You really think that.
Lute: I know that.
And Lute has to believe that, because if winners and sinners arenβt so different, then her lifeβs purpose as a soldier and exorcist means nothing, and by extension she would be nothing. Itβs a direct threat to her way of life.Β
But Vaggi shows that it doesnβt have to mean nothing. Her skills and experience as a soldier and exorcist still very much play a part in her life and come in use many times, including her trust exercise in S1:
Vaggie: No. I told you you could trust me, and I'm not going to let you down. [walks away from Charlie] I just need to teach them, the way I was taught...
[As she said this, Vaggie smiles with excitement when she has the perfect trust exercise for all of them.]
[The scene changes to the group standing on a rooftop with half-destroyed buildings all around them. Everyone was shocked that the exercise has taken them to a live turf war battlefield with guns blazing in the background, demons screaming, and explosions booming.]
Charlie: *shouting over the other demons' screaming* THIS IS HOW YOU LEARNED TO TRUST PEOPLE?!
[Back at the rooftop, Vaggie makes a drill sergeant march.]
Vaggie: *drill sergeant style* There is nothing stronger than the trust between comrades in arms. Buckle up, buttercups, because today you boys become men!
[There is a loud explosion in the background, sending shockwaves that sways Vaggie's hair with a satisfying smile. Vaggie advances on Sir Pentious]
Vaggie: You, *picks up Sir Pentious*
Sir Pentious: Wait, wait! I can't fight without my minions-
Vaggie: Are gonna survive together!
[Vaggie throws Sir Pentious off the building before turning to Angel Dust]
Vaggie: And you, (Angel Dust: D-don't you even think about it-) are gonna make this hotel work!
(I love the implication that sheβs taken what Lute wouldβve taught her as her lieutenant in the military and trying to imitate her while running the training exercise)
Charlie: *grabs Vaggie's hand* No, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I put pressure on you. We work as a team. I guess I just thought all this would be easier, but, we'll figure it out, together. I mean, look what your exercise did for them.Β
And running the hotel in S2:
Vaggie: Thanks for signing the guest book. [To herself] This is like being in the army.Β
But sheβs not defined by that alone anymore, sheβs grown to be more and to explore different sides of herself, and is a lot more confident and happy as a result. And if thatβs possible for Vaggi, then itβs possible for Lute, too.
Vaggi and Lute use military terms in both their songs in S2 which youβve pointed out:Β
Lute: Iβve still got a job to do my missionβs incomplete
Only a traitor could consider making peace
Vaggi: My hand, your hand, your body in mine, they can withstand the firing line
And going back to I Donβt Dance, the song is filled with overlapping baseball and dance terminology to convey the integration between the two different sides of sports and musical theatre, along with the progressive choreography of them dancing while playing baseball:
RYAN:
Slide home, you score, swingin on the dance floor
CHAD:
I don't dance, noΒ
RYAN:
Lean back, tuck it in, take a chance
Swing it out, spin around, do the dance
CHAD:
I wanna play ball, not dance hall
I'm makinβ a triple, not a curtain callΒ
And Ryan challenging Chad by pointing out that dancing isnβt inferior and doesnβt make you lesser just because itβs seen as queer/effeminate in being too expressive, and in fact makes you more, because youβre capable of more than the one thing you were told you could be and do:
RYAN:
I can prove it to you til you know it's true
'Cause I can swing it, I can bring it to the diamond tooΒ
In the same way Vaggi being more feminine and expressive in her appearance than when in the army, open about her sexuality and who she loves, as well as being a dancer, doesnβt make her weaker or any less capable of a fighter than Lute. It makes her more, because sheβs grown outside the confines of what she was told she could be and do. Which comes up with her challenging Luteβs worldview in the S1 finale:
Vaggi: Seriously, you're pathetic, you know that? Ready to die rather than accepting mercy? No. Live. Live, knowing that you only do because I let you. The failure.Β
But weβre obviously not done with these two yet and their foiling in the series. I feel the natural climax of Vaggiβs arc is trying to teach Lute what sheβs learned, as the girls are mirrors of one another. They cannot deny or kill each other, because to do that would be to kill part of themselves. So how do they reconcile? How can Vaggi teach Lute what sheβs learned? My answer would be a dance lesson like the one Carmilla gives Vaggi. Like Ryan gives Chad. (I have some thoughts on how a reprise of Out for Love would go for Vaggi/Lute, but thatβs gonna be in another post cos this is already getting out of hand for what is essentially a jokey rambling semi-serious analysis)Β
In conclusion, Iβm predicting Vaggi and Lute having a homerotic dance fight, where a flustered and frustrated Lute keeps trying to fight Vaggi and a smug Vaggi keeps pulling her into a dance lesson instead, which ultimately is a tipping point for Lute finally coming to terms with her own bisexuality and realising she can be more than just a soldier (half joking/half serious prediction but it's fun to imagine)
Β thatβs my silly fandom ramble I guess, hope you enjoyed! And thanks again for sending the ask!
I was thinking to comment through tags, but it was becoming rather long, so I used a reblog instead :') (synthesis ain't one of my talents).
Anyway, I have no regrets about the vagueness of the ask 'cause I would have never thought up this kind of question and I love your exploration of this. I also would have liked your other topics, but I'll admit I have yet to watch the Utena Movie (I just love the series too much <3). The Velvette/Lute thoughts also interest me a lot, 'cause they could connect with my season 1 thoughts about Velvette and Vaggi and I was just wondering if maybe the Heaven characters will get more focus in season 4 aka the supposedly Velvette's season on the Vees' side of things.
That said, going back to your post, I love both the idea of an Out For Love Reprise with Vaggi and Lute and the idea of Vaggi's fight with Lute turning into a dance lesson at one point. It also makes me wonder more about Heaven's Musical motif and how it could relate to Lute specifically. In any case, I think our disaster girl needs a dance lesson asap, I mean:
What exactly is this angry stomping Lute? :P (Meanwhile Vaggi beautifully dancing combining salsa and tango)
I also really appreciated the HSM exploration to be honest. I have watched the movies years ago and never thought about them too deeply. I had no idea about the Director's intentions about Ryan and how Disney went in the way (I mean the coding is pretty clear, but I never researched the whole story). The detail of the hat is also great. I also remember loving Ryan's evolution throughout the movie, he was my favorite so it is nice to have this analysis.
Finally, I love your point about Hellfire and Lute's repressed sexuality. When it comes to it, I can't help, but to think about Gravity because:
1- I think Sam Haft confirmed somewhere Hellfire was one of the inspirations for Gravity. They wanted to explore Lute's bigotry and white and black mentality, while keeping the religious element (hence the Gregorian chant). It is fun because I think they started with hellfire and then decided to make Lute's outburst a storm and to focus on the element of water in what is basically an inversion.
2-As you said, Hellfire is about Frollo's repressed sexuality. He is attracted to Esmeralda, but can't deal with these feelings because he sees them as impure. The end result is that he lashes out at Esmeralda and decides to burn her. I agree that Lute's outburst against Charlie and Vaggi may very well be about Lute's repressed sexual attraction to women. About this, when I watched the music video together with @hamliet for the first time, her first thoughts on the song were literally "oh, so Lute likes women" :'). She pointed out that Lute literally keeps stabbing yonic objects with pointed weapons throughout the whole first part of Gravity :''')
Moreover, considering the records are meant to call back Vaggi's eye, well... things start coming together.
In any case, your analysis was a treat, so I just wanted to show my appreciation and share thoughts! Have a great evening :)
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hi! I love your metas and utena is one of my favourite series so I'm so happy you got around to watching it! what are some of your favourites themes/characters from it? are you planning to make some other analysis posts about it? I'd love to hear some more of your thoughts on this wonderful anime!
Hi!
I would love to write more for the series. Feel free to send me asks about what you want me to cover. Asks are truly helpful to motivate analysis ahah. I will warn you that I am slow, so I may take a while before I answer :''')
Anyway, as for your questions.
Favorite themes
All of them honestly. I think RGU succeeds at basically everything it sets up to explore and it is to this day an incredibly powerful and original series for the way it tackles many difficult themes.
My three favorites are probably these:
1- You can't save people, but people save themselves. My favorite twist is that the Prince did not save Utena, but Utena saved herself. This idea is re-affirmed in the ending, when Utena can't save Anthy, but Anthy herself can. It is also something re-affirmed throughout the whole series. You can be helped (and frankly sometimes you need help), but overall you have to grow up and save yourself on your own. Something must click into you. This is why Akio who keeps on relying on others' pain to feel "big" will never grow up.
2- The way growing up is portrayed in general is great. Many times when characters grow up it is portrayed as a triumphant moment. However, RGU shows it for what it is: painful. Sure, Anthy's growth in the final scene is wonderful and inspiring and triumphant. However, Anthy is also a victim of horrid abuse that finally realizes she does not have to be. When it comes to other characters that come from (relatively) less traumatic childhoods the realization is harsh as hell. Like, Nanami grows up when she starts desperately crying and saying that she is just vermin. Utena grows up when she melancholy says she is not a prince. That is because there is pain in giving up on childhood dreams. Children are often a little narcissistic, after all. It is actually natural. However, to grow up means to realize you ain't that special. You are just a person, like others. This can be painful, but it is ultimately also healthy and freeing.
3- Victims. The way the series deals with abuse is JUST GREAT. It is probably one of the best depiction of the cycle of abuse ever. That is because it shows how abuse is often invisible. Akio has been literally manipulating and raping Anthy for years and nobody knows. All people see is that Anthy is SO gloomy and weird, oh my god! Nobody stops to investigate why she is this way. When Nanami and Utena finally see Akio raping Anthy it ultimately changes nothing for Anthy. That is because both Nanami and Utena are lonely kids themselves. They do not have the instruments to fully understand what is going on. They do not have trusty adults they can report Akio to. I think Nanami seeing the whole thing and being traumatized and unable to properly understand it or address it is one of the most powerful scenes of the series. And I love that once Utena sees the same thing she basically reacts just like Nanami. After all, the point is that Utena is a kid too. Akio is in general a WONDERFUL depiction of an abuser. The way he is charming and liked and rapes Utena, but Utena herself does not even understand what is happening. Like, the dude is literally introduced doing sexual activities with a student, but he acts so normal about it Utena immediately normalizes it. After all, Kanae is his fiancee, so it is normal for them to be intimate, right? Ugh. Another great thing is the deconstruction of "good victim" and "bad victim". Anthy and Touga start as the good victim and bad victim only for later on to be revealed they were both accomplices of Akio. They both spend time in the rose garden "grooming roses" (aka manipulating the other kids in the cycle). And yet, they are both shown empathy and both of them are saved. I also personally find heart-breaking the depiction of characters like Utena and Saionji who love Anthy and Touga deeply to the point they re-enter the cycle and put themselves in danger to protect their loved ones. There is something beautiful and heartbreaking about a vulnerable and scared kid being brave for another vulnerable and scared kid.
Favorite Characters
The order keeps on changing, so have them in no particular order.
These two queens. Utena and Anthy are both great because of the deconstruction they go through in the final arc of the anime. Utena starts as the badass prince and Anthy as the victimized poor princess. The final arc shows how much more complex they are.
Utena is not a badass hero, but a groomed victim, which is being manipulated by an adult and by the girl she clearly has feelings for. She is a kid, so she is superficial and naive and struggles to understand others. She sees the world through a simplistic lens. And yet, she never loses her drive nor the desire to help others and this leaves a huge impact on the people around her. The coronation of her arc being her realization she herself has been "using" Anthy to an extent to feel "good" and "noble" is great, as it is her still wanting to help Anthy, despite Anthy's betrayal.
Anthy is a victim, but she is not a helpless princess. She is a girl turned into a witch and forced to do horrible crimes. Everyone mistreats Anthy and Anthy lashes out at everyone. She manipulates all the other kids into Akio's trap, poisons people and plays the part of the princess even if she knows the only person she truly cares about will end up in her same nightmare. Finally, she stabs Utena who has been fighting for her the whole time in the back. And yet, the story tells us she does not deserve abuse. She does not deserve all the pain, she is a victim, she needs help. And at the same time she is her own person and she can save herself.
These two idiots. I have a HUGE soft spot for Saionji and Touga, as disastrous as they are. I love that they are introduced as these two big assholes only to be revealed as two kids, whose desire to be heroes and to help others has been hijacked and twisted by an abuser.
Touga is heartbreaking and another great representation of a bad victim. He is being groomed by Akio to become like him. At the very beginning of the story he is sure he is bound to become like Akio. So, he manipulates and pushes Saionji away. At the same time, he makes use of Nanami's feelings for him in his schemes. He lashes out against his loved ones so badly and... in the end his loved ones still love him deeply. Saionji and Nanami both understand what Touga has been going through to an extent and choose to stay by his side. I love their little trio at the end.
Saionji is great because he is genuinely unbearable when he tries to play "the part of the big bad man". And yet, once he drops the mask he is revealed as very sensitive, childish and sweet. He is able to read through Touga perfectly by the end and chooses to support him, even if it is dangerous. Their relationship warms my heart. Moreover, I love toxic masculine characters that have to integrate their feminine part.
NANAMI IS MY SPECIAL LITTLE GIRL! I genuinely adore her and I have had a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE SOFT SPOT for her since the very beginning (just ask @hamliet :P). She is just kid Regina George, how can I hate her? She is very similar to Cordelia in Buffy in how she is an alpha bitch, but the narrative turns her into a butt-monkey, so she is impossible to dislike.
Anyway, I love very childish characters that by the end become wiser than everyone else. Nanami checks. She starts as Touga's annoying little sister and ends the story as her own person. I love how the series explores her bond with Touga and how she is building her identity on his. I love how it is shown their bond is 100% platonic and how her obsession for her brother stemmed from childishness. I really see Nanami as the 3rd main character tbh (not counting Akio as a MC, but as a villain). She is the only character who completes her growth outside of Anthy and Utena, after all. Moreover, she receives more individual episodes than everyone else. Overall she is just very very complex and I adore characters that are flawed in a not sanitized way and get to face their ugly flaws and overcome them. Plus, let's be real... the girl HAS STYLE... ALL HER CLOTHES ARE 100%. Honestly, if I were to write an individual analysis, I think she is the character I would love to go and make a deep dive into.
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