#aftershocked

“they change a lot over 15 seasons but it's consistent enough” i feel like differences and inconsistencies in episodes/writing/seasons are one of the reasons (besides personal preference) that ppl get twisted around when it comes to possessive sam and possessive dean, like it’s easy to focus on one or two things w/o taking larger patterns or predominant characteristics into account.

also it’s easy to focus on like, smth happening a few times that is in contradiction to something that happened many other times, & not want to Deal with the complexities & contradictions—but the complexities are the best part! i’ve seen you talk about it before too, the benefits of a longrunning series where we get to really watch the characters grow from young men to essentially middle-aged,

you get to actually have characters w the kind of multifaceted personalities you’d expect of, like, normal people (just way more fucked up and traumatized). so yeah, dean isn’t always straightforward in the way he’s content with keeping sam with him, and can dip into weird behavior (ESPECIALLY in the sort of parental “i make the decisions around here” sense)—

but his general preference, his base character, does not lean towards possessiveness at all. versus sam, who SEEMS like he’d be more grounded and chill, but is actually the crazy jealous guy. that kind of irony, those kind of subversions, are what make them enjoyable as characters and contribute to why possessive sam is so much fun to explore,

bc you Wouldn’t think he’d be the one who’s jealous enough that even when dean gives sam so much of himself already, sam still wants more. you’d look at him and expect him to be the brother capable of letting go, of being halfway normal, instead of like, sam’s built so much on seeking dean’s approval and lived his life at the center of dean’s universe,

so he’ll reject anything that threatens to change that dynamic. like the contradictions are weird and spicy and i like them a lot and god i love sam’s reactions to benny so much. i’d feel bad bc i really like benny & he deserved better, but it’s too much fun to see how much sam of all people unreasonably, irrationally, illogically hates the guy,

just because he represents someone dean might, might, might possibly actually like more than sam (even though we, the viewers, know that’s impossible). beautiful

--

yes, you’ve hit on so many great points here! firstly, the inconsistencies in characterization: i think it’s very easy to see why people get annoyed by the writing, and i do think it’s occasionally justified; however, i’ve always found it a lot more rewarding to think about it as the same kind of inconsistencies that real people have! sam and dean might make “ooc” decisions and it’s okay because real people do that too, out of anger, resentment, sadness, trauma... it makes sense, to me, that they aren’t the same people they were fifteen years ago. getting stuck in one ‘mode’ of characterization is damaging to an overall reading of the show, but at the same time it’s okay to latch onto one era if that’s what you enjoy. it only bothers me when people take characterization from one era (for example, dean’s ptsd, anger, and jealousy over amelia) and apply it to every version of that character.

dean’s parental sense of possession over sam is one thing i do agree with wrt the possessive dean takes, and i think they’re more memorable for a lot of people because they’re not what you usually see from a family show-- it’s weird for dean to feel that way, and i don’t know if i’ve ever seen that intersection of parental ownership and romantic partner jealousy. it’s important that this comes out when dean is under pressure, not all the time-- AND it’s essential that sam does not cave to this. it gets iffy during dabb era, but i still don’t see sam immediately caving to dean’s demands. a good example is the scene where dean holds a gun to sam in season 15, which i see fairly often as an example of dean demanding obedience from sam... but sam doesn’t cave! and sam doesn’t even flinch, because he’s used to having guns pointed at him, and he knows that no version of dean could ever kill him. dean knows this too, and dean is the one who caves, as per usual. this is only not the case a few times in canon, like season 4, parts of season 7, and season 9, all for different reasons i won’t get into now. it’s remarkable when dean doesn’t go along with what sam asks, which is why it sticks in people’s memories, imo. dean is very loud with what he wants and what he thinks is best, but if sam disagrees he will argue dean around to his point, or he’ll go behind dean’s back to do it anyway (case in point, season 11 with the cage.)

anyway-- “the complexities are the best part!” and “you get to actually have characters w the kind of multifaceted personalities you’d expect of, like, normal people (just way more fucked up and traumatized). so yeah, dean isn’t always straightforward...” TOTALLY AGREE. i love the times when the brothers are making decisions that fandom disagrees with, because it’s interesting. the show is here to provide a compelling story. i’m not going to lie and say i always agree with that story or those choices, but it’s fun for me to try to get into why a character would make that decision, not just rail against it. i like the dudes we have in canon! they’re fun!

this is why possessive sam slaps for me. what you said here-- “sam, who SEEMS like he’d be more grounded and chill, but is actually the crazy jealous guy. that kind of irony, those kind of subversions, are what make them enjoyable as characters and contribute to why possessive sam is so much fun to explore” yes yes yes. 100%. and we see these subversions right from season one! it’s not new that dean isn’t actually the uber-confident womanizing asshole, but if you aren’t paying attention it can sneak up on you, i guess? and sam, who comes across as the level-headed one in common archetypes, the soft-spoken college boy, crashes the impala into a building. in the first episode. and in route 666, he  follows a crazy instinct that is proven correct and saves their lives (because he’s intelligent!) but toys with the chance that it could have failed and killed dean (because he’s reckless!)

the fact that we have all these examples of the ways the brothers fail to fulfill the tropes they would in a less-interesting tv show means that possessive sam makes so much sense. sam is built up as the independent brother, the one who left home, the rebellious one, but he loves his family and he needs dean. he needs him. “sam’s built so much on seeking dean’s approval and lived his life at the center of dean’s universe...” i love the way you put this. sam has had dean’s attention and protection for most of his life, and hell if he’s giving it up now for some two-bit vampire, lol. sam is independent, but like with everything else, dean is the exception. sam’s desperation for dean’s approval and attention is absolutely hilarious in the benny situation, because, like you’ve said before, benny is the least-threatening dude ever. he’s so nice. and the fact that sam won’t rest until he dies is-- well, i’m being a little uncharitable, i don’t think sam wanted benny to die, but he sure didn’t shed any tears over it.