#*making

Whether We Like It Or Not

Separate follow up (tags only) post

TL;DR Lazy is a commonly weaponized word against disabled people. Not everyone can discover what a spirit/god likes some of us are entirely or partially head-blind (don't communicate with gods/spirits). Mention what tradition you are before making comments on topics that span across basically every pagan & polytheist practice.

🔷Disclaimer I Supposed🔷

I'm a Hellenic and Sumerian polytheist.

I'm going through my drafts and this is from 2022 so no way I'm reblogging the original post. But as I was re-reading this, I still want to post my thoughts hence why I used screenshots.

Also with the discourse currently happening in our community its a decent time to post it.

OP mentions in the follow up tags-only post that they come from an East Asia tradition. The original post was reblogged by many Helpol blogs which is why I wanted to respond. I only found the tag post that explains the differences in traditions when I was looking through their blog— so this was never actually clarified in the original post at any point.

A lot of people agreed with this in the tags, including disabled people. This is just my view as a disabled person. I am not being a spokesman for every disabled person.

🔷How Do You Know?🔷

In my opinion, water is a lazy offering. Yes across certain periods of time and locations it is a prized commodity, and yes it is life-giving and wonderous. But that does not change the fact your average witch/pagan who reads this post on tumblr gets it in 2 seconds from the tap.

Did they though? Did it only take a few seconds or did it take more effort than you might realize.

How many of the authors or people in the notes about water not being a lazy offering require much more than a few seconds (or minutes) to actually get the water? How can you possibly answer that question. Did you somehow magically pull out this statistical ""average"" number from somewhere.

((And I do not want to hear "well I said the average" or "I meant in general" because trust me I will get to that.))

There are people who have to use a mobility aids to get to that tap water that may make it more difficult for them. There are people who have to properly sit before turning the tap on, and may even need someones help setting the stool or chair up. There are people who have a hard time getting out of bed (for physical or mental reason) and doing so can be an difficult task, making this trip to the sink for a water offering is going to take up a good chunk of energy.

"Well yes you're correct and those things are not necessary

........if they are not necessary why did you go on to say that such things are effort, hard work, and discipline.... and should be strived for. Those who don't do these things aren't putting in the appropriate effort, are unwilling to work hard, and have no discipline is the implication.

...and not everyone can do them all the time

That implies that every one can do it at some point. What about the people who will never be able to make offerings the way pagans envision spirituality— those who can only offer a sip of what they are drinking. What about the people who will never be able to be more elaborate? What about the people who will never be able to make a daily practice?

🔷Words Means Things🔷

I don't know if the OP is disabled or not but if you (any one reading) haven't experienced the weaponization of this word first hand please don't speak over the experiences of the people who have experienced it. Wheelchair? Lazy. Classroom accommodations? Lazy. Extra time in bed? Lazy.

However, a cup of water being lazy and convenient is exactly why it’s so great. Lazy and convenient are not inherently bad things, you understand? 

No. I definitely don't understand. Because this word is damaging.

Words have power. "Lazy" is a weapon wielded against disabled people all the time.

The sheer power of this word isn't going to poof away due to social media. Ignoring the word lazy's connotations, by simply stating "its not inherently bad" is not a solution. Its just furthering its harmful impact.

#discourse #water offering #dont take it personally #people see the word 'lazy' and immediately panic #lazy and convenient are not inherently negative #that's the real capitalist conditioning you know

Immediately panic. Yeh at times for pretty good reason.

I disagree that "lazy" is "not inherently negative" meaning we should ignore its connotations because its "capitalist conditioning." The conception of "lazy" existed before modern capitalism. Not all words can be washed away as not negative because arguments like "capitalist conditioning,."

Many people get called lazy enough for many things— needing more rest, using mobility aids, asking for accommodations—we do not need our offerings to be put in that category FOR ANY REASON. And reasons such as "well its just a capital mindset" aren't an excuse. An offering is more than the actual liquid. It can take concentration, prayer, emotional or spiritual strength; it'll depend on the person and traditions.

"Putting efforts into things such as daily practice, and more elaborate offerings. Is an expression of discipline and hard work and these are worthy things to strive for"

Funny I'm certain there is a word specifically used by society to claim disabled people are not disciplined and not hard workers.... oh right, I remember the word—its lazy.

🔹Disabled People Exception to the Rule🔹

All the Tumblr discord around spiritual practices seems to be from people who feel threatened by putting effort into things. 'Like you don't need offerings!' and water is not a lazy 'offering!'

"Seems" to be? Did you ask any of the authors of those posts what their disability is? Did you ask them of daily practice could ever be a possibility based on their life constraints? Did you ask any of the authors of those posts if they could ever give more than just water based on their life constraints or disabilities?

If the answer is no, how are they supposed to read this entire post and not feel bad and not "take it personally" as you suggest? You literally just indirectly called the authors out for making these posts that you don't like.

"Honestly it just feels like the people who write post arguing against things like daily practice or otherwise reassuring people that you don't need XYZ are actually feeling threatened by these things

YES. CORRECT. Anyone saying something that takes effort—like a water offering— that a person does not posses is just another thing to put in the pile of "people things call lazy and leave me out of the conversation because I'm disabled thus an outlier"

It IS threatening— the word is genuinely threatening.

The word quite literally keeps people out of places without wheelchair access because ambulatory wheelchair uses can "technically" walk therefore they are being lazy by asking people to find wheelchair accessible options.

It literally prevents students from learning. Requesting the ability to use a laptop in class (which professors insisted made a student absorb the information inefficiently) instead of writing notes? Lazy. Need to request extra time on tests? Lazy.

It can literally prevent people from being in any profession— need extra breaks at work? or short naps throughout the day? an extra place to sit? Lazy.

It can literally prevent people from graduating if the professor flunks you because they saw your disability as simple laziness.

It can literally prevent a judge from giving people disability benefits because according to the judge's decision the person can work they're just being lazy and choosing not to.

These things happen in real life.

People are afraid to ask for accommodations for fear of being seen as lazy or burdensome.

Playing a phone game because its what you can actually manage, instead of using that "time to be productive" is branded lazy.

It can even effect medical professionals who call patients lazy and "giving up" because they assert to the professional that physical therapy is harming them and a mobility aid is better.

"I know disabilities are a thing yes but"

NO. No "buts" we should not be put to the wayside because we are the minority. We should not be a "but"

But yes water is safe, lazy and convenient for many of us.

If you do happen to live in an area with water issues, then of course a water offering takes on that extra special meaning and becomes a far greater sacrifice on your part. If you do not have this problem, then rejoice!

This is essentially saying "of course there are SOME exceptions to the rule." I refuse to be an "exception" in discourse about offerings. And that is exactly what society does. All. The. Time. to disabled people for everything. That is what this post does. The minority is cast aside so we can talk about the majority of people and just leave the others out of the conversation.

Is it safe. lazy, and convenient for all of us? No. Then don't call any water offerings lazy because that inherently ignores the "rest of us" and invalidates people who you may not know are disabled.

You cannot know if the authors of the post—who you claim feel threatened by effort—fall into the outlier disabled community; unless everyone of them states they are fully able bodied and neurotypical. You cannot know if the people in the notes agreeing with the sentiment in the "water isn't lazy" posts are disabled and can give only water. Worst of all you cannot know if anyone disabled is going to read your post and take it to heart, that water is lazy.

🔹Unequal Offerings🔹

Water offerings will never be as valued as a personalised offering after getting to know the spirit’s likes and dislikes. Don’t kid yourself.

This is just .... gate-keepy. Also ignoring the diversity of traditions since you didn't state what yours were in the original post.

I've said it once, I'll say it a million times if necessary. Not every pagan or polytheist can "know" a spirit or god's preferences. Plenty of us have no 'communication' no interpersonal 'relationship'

The idea that personalized offerings are more valued after an individual takes the time to "get to know," a spirit or god just makes headblind or mostly headblind people feel even less at home in these spaces, more than we already do. Since most of us in that category will never get the chance. It reinforces the annoying emphasis on communication and interpersonal relationships that gets said over and over and over again in pagan & polytheist spiritual spaces. Pushing us with rare or zero "communication" out.

But why pretend that sacrifice is relevant to you?

There may be a difference between sacrifice and offering depending on the tradition you practice.

If you come from a tradition that eats the food or drinks all of the liquid after it is offered, then milk is no different than water in value if both are readily available to you. If you come from a tradition that pours out some or all of the liquid than there may be a monetary sacrifice depending on your individual life circumstances— and how you personally view it.

Using my own personal experience to discuss this one. One of my rare UPGs is that Athena likes coffee. In university I would offering some of my morning coffee as libation to Athena Ergane. It certainly was a sacrifice in my view. Coffee was practically essential for me to get through my classes. I'd have to leave my residence earlier than I normally would, wait in a very long line at the campus cafe/shop, spend money to buy it— then pour some of that coffee out onto the ground. Coffee felt like precious gold at that point in my life.

Nowadays coffee is in my home and I could probably ask someone to make it for me. So it isn't a sacrifice, in the same way I considered my Uni morning coffee; but it is still an offering. And to add to my dislike of the "personalized offering is better" concept— yes, I enjoy giving her something I believe she likes but my offerings of coffee is no less valuable than my offerings of water just because I know her "likes." Not to mention some traditions specifically dictated what should be offered.

Saying otherwise with "don't kid yourself"—a very condescending phrase— is just so odd. Not everyone see personalization that way or even has the ability to personalize things.

🔹Different Traditions🔹

Frankly, if you are speaking solely from an East Asian perspective maybe mention that in the post directly—not a separate tag post—before calling water a lazy offering and justify it by saying lazy is just "threatening" and "capitalist."

I just can't get over how ridiculous "will never be as valued as a personalised offering" is.

Sumerian polytheism doesn't require personalization, nor imo does Hellenic polytheism (described here), nor does Shinto. Anyways, these traditions have traditional offerings that require no spirit communication, UPG, divination, personalization etc. Those offerings are just as good as "personalized" ones, water offerings are just as good as "personalized" ones.

🔷Final Remark🔷

"people who feel threatened by putting effort"

Two professors deciding I was lazy due to accommodations nearly making me flunk out of university during my senior year. A judge quizzing me (and a witness) about if I could actually work and was just choosing not to was humiliating.

Don't call any offerings lazy. Don't put disabled people to the side with the word "but"