I quit Marvel for a year after the asterisk movie because I was just.that.disgusted and nothing I've heard about Doomsday makes me feel any better about what's coming down the pipeline.
Just finished watching Wonder Man and it reminded me of why I loved Marvel so much for so long. The stories they are capable of telling! It's a masterpiece. Hard to believe it's the same studio and the same MCU.
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Find someone who, when you're sitting in the passenger seat and exclaim 'Ooh, I think those were sandhill cranes', just flicks on the indicator, turns the car around, and parks illegally so you can get a better look, even though they DGAF about birds.
remember when you were 10 and you would hang out with your friends in order to Look At The Computer together like you went to their house and experienced the information superhighway together. and then leave
You see, there used to be a time (not all that long ago) when being offline was the default. And going online was the rare and wonderful thing that we (briefly) enjoyed.
Tb fans going "I don't like how people switch up on this movie" as if we weren't working hard filling the anti thunderbolts tag since the movie first dropped đ like dude, WE HATE THAT MOVIE
Copyright class actions could financially ruin AI industry, trade groups say.
AI industry groups are urging an appeals court to block what they say is the largest copyright class action ever certified. Theyâve warned that a single lawsuit raised by three authors over Anthropicâs AI training now threatens to âfinancially ruinâ the entire AI industry if up to 7 million claimants end up joining the litigation and forcing a settlement.
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being anti ai is making me feel like in going insane. "you asked for thoughts about your characters backstory and i put it into chat gpt for ideas". studies have proven its making people dumber. "i asked ai to generate this meal plan". its causing water shortages where its data centers are built. "ill generate some pictures for the dnd campaign". its spreading misinformation. "meta, generate an image of this guy doing something stupid". its trained off stolen images, writing, video, audio. "i was talking with my snapchat ai-" theres no way to verify what its doing with the information it collects. "youtube is impletmenting ai based age verification". my work has an entire graphics media department and has still put ai generated motivational posters up everywhere. ai playlists. ai facial verification. google ai microsoft ai meta ai snapchat ai. everyone treats it as a novelty. every treats it as a mandatory part of life. am i the only one who sees it? am i paranoid? am i going insane? jesus fucking christ. if i have to hear one more "well at least-" "but it does-" "but you can-" im about to lose it. i shouldnt have to jump through hoops to avoid the evil machine. have you no principles? no goddamn spine? am i the weird one here?
classicists will make the ugliest least functional website in the history of html and it will contain the entire library of fragmentary papyri of the works of aeschylus. for free
Ykw, that is exactly what I mean when I say people are painting Sam being in the wrong because he's not communicating and listening and understanding Bucky's position in this. They want to paint this "sambucky divorce" as miscommunication (in which the blame is almost always on Sam, like "SAM JUST LISTEN TO YOUR HUSBAND, HE DIDN'T MEAN IT I SWEAR", yeah that was a direct quote from a tiktok comment) and not a breach of trust. And like completely glaze over BUCKY BARNES being in a government approved fraud "Avengers" (i'll bite and say that it's completely ooc of him and that's bad writing's fault but it did happen so unless they're reconning the whole thing, he still has to take accountability for his actions in-universe)
Man idk about you but Iâd be upset if I told my friend I was asked to restart the avengers and then a while later he shows up at a press conference announcing the âmonths in the worksâ plans to reveal the new team of Avengers thatâs run by the CIA.
Like, âit went poorlyâ - Bucky, the time to call Sam was immediately after that press conference, right? The time to actually say âthis is bullshit Valentina is a monsterâ was *at that press conference*.
And if youâre out there going âwell he had to protect the teamâ - friendly reminder that both Sam Wilson and Steve Rogers became war criminals because they refused to back down from what they thought was right. And when Sam and Wanda ended up on the Raft Steve and Natasha came and rescued them. No hesitation, and i tell you, theyâd fucking do it again. They all stood on business when it counted, and because of them Bucky got the help he needed. In TWS, Natasha let ALL her secrets out in the world to take Shield down, because again, she stood on business. This is what it means to be an Avenger - if it means anything at all, itâs doing whatâs right, no matter the cost.
And Bucky knows this! So who the fuck is this person at the end of thunderbolts and what did they do to Bucky Barnes, because tell me that man wouldnât also always want to do the right thing, even if it cost him.
i just can't convey the frustration and sorrow that it's been to grow up at first without the internet and then watching it bloom into this useful, fun, connecting force you sometimes spent time on, only for it to degrade into this constant oppressive waste of time and energy where people are constantly pumping out algorithmically designed content for max algorithmic appeal and even the most simple search generates either no results or an infinite abyss of ai generated slop none of which is usable or correct. we briefly had a library of alexandria and then fed it into a paper shredder so advertisers could sell a random mash of pulp back to us at a premium.
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So it's no secret that I hated Thunderbolts. And for that reason Iâm generally glad that the movie performed so poorly in theaters. This is mostly because, as a fan of the MCU who wants to see it make good movies and succeed long-term, I want the performance of Thunderbolts to be a teaching experience for Disney. Because while Iâm aware that Disney has put out plenty of movies that have lost them money, it's not something they want to make a habit out of. Especially for the MCU, which is typically a consistent money maker. Iâm sure that there are some extensive meetings happening, maybe even now, analyzing just how Thunderbolts did so badly and how the same thing can be avoided in the future. So Iâm going to go over all the possible explanations for Thunderbolts bombing at the box office, starting with things that arenât directly connected to the movieâs quality, and ending with actual issues with the movie that I hope will not be repeated in the future.Â
First off, I think it's important to remember that there is a general state of economic anxiety in the United States and elsewhere in the world. Seeing a movie in the theater is ultimately a luxury compared to essentials like gas, groceries, medicine, and the like. Many people are skipping out on watching movies in theaters for this reason. Especially since many theaters are getting more expensive while also providing a worse experience due to low staffing, way too many ads before movies, and aging equipment. All of these issues are exacerbated by the presence of streaming services which make it less important to watch a movie in theaters immediately. Iâm going to go more into streaming a bit later.
Somewhat related to this issue is the fact that 2025 has been a great year for movies. Especially this spring and summer. Ironically enough, shunting Brave New World into a February release date, which is not usually a great time to release movies, ultimately seemed to have helped the film. Since there werenât that many other movies coming out at the time, Brave New World didnât have to share with anything else in theaters. Meanwhile, releasing Thunderbolts during the more optimal spring/summer release time meant that the movie had a lot of competition. And the competitors were really good - as I discussed before, Thunderbolts had the misfortune of being released right after Sinners of all movies, which was basically impossible to follow up. I think audiences were more likely to watch Sinners twice in theaters than to watch Thunderbolts once.Â
But there have been other great movies released around the same time as Thunderbolts. For example, Thunderbolts was a superhero movie sandwiched between a Captain America movie, the new rebooted Superman, and the new rebooted MCU Fantastic Four. By comparison, Thunderbolts was a barely known team from the comics composed of barely known MCU characters (and Bucky in a bad wig). I could see some fans on a budget go to watch Captain America, Superman, and Fantastic Four in theaters and save their money by waiting to watch Thunderbolts on streaming later. But even the elements that were supposed to set Thunderbolts apart from these particular movies were done way better in other recent releases. Thunderbolts was advertised as having impressive practical stunts, but it was followed up by a Mission Impossible movie, the series that wrote the book on extreme stuntwork! Thunderbolts was supposed to be the gritty, woman-led action movie, but it was followed up by a John Wick movie with a new woman lead. There is more creative action in a single minute of Ballerina than in the entirety of Thunderbolts. Iâm talking about the gun-knife, the bit with the plates, the part with the ice skates, the grenade bundle sequence, I could go on.
Essentially, Thunderbolts came out during a time of heavy competition, which would have messed with the performance of any movie regardless of quality. But now Iâm going to go more into how Thunderboltsâ actual issues as a movie could also explain its poor performance. To begin, Iâm going to delve more into the matter of streaming. For a movie to do well in theaters nowadays, it needs to do something to make it worthwhile to watch on the big screen. And weâve seen plenty of movies lean into that. Top Gun: Maverick for example was one of those movies that was really meant to be seen in theaters because of its impressive dogfights. Sinners obviously motivated audiences to not only watch the movie in theaters, but to specifically seek it out in IMAX. Even looking at other superhero movies, Brave New World made good use of the big screen. That movie features an incredible aerial battle and a finale where Captain America fights the red hulk. Add the creative use of color and other visuals throughout the film and you get a movie that is best watched, at least for the first time, on the big screen.Â
By comparison, Thunderbolts doesnât have much in the way of visuals that would be enhanced by the theater experience. As Iâve gone into before, the colors and direction choices make it pretty unappealing to look at. The main action sequences - Bucky on his bike and the Void taking over New York, are fun. But they arenât necessarily made better with a big screen, thereâs nothing about them that make watching it at home a less satisfying experience. Now, on its own, the fact that a movieâs action sequences look just as good at home doesnât ultimately mean that people will wait to watch it on streaming. It may have contributed, but I wouldnât say it was the smoking gun so to speak.
Now I *do* believe that the last-minute marketing of Thunderbolts in which it literally spoiled the ânew Avengersâ reveal absolutely convinced a good deal of potential theater viewers to wait to watch it at home. Because another motivation to watch a movie in theaters is the fear of missing out, the desire to be part of the conversation about the movie, to be âin the knowâ. If thereâs some big twist at the end, people who watch it as soon as they can rather than waiting for streaming can participate in exclusive conversations. And people waiting to stream the movie have to avoid spoilers online, which can be rather difficult in this age of the internet and social media. This can motivate more people to watch it in theaters just to avoid getting the experience spoiled for them.
Which is why Disneyâs decision to spend more money on billboards and bring out the actors to do promo stunts all to deliberately spoil the ending of the movie is probably the first thing Iâll cite as being a huge mistake that probably helped this movie bomb in the box office. Because now the motivation for audiences to watch the movie to avoid spoilers is gone. So now Thunderbolts is a movie that isnât visually impressive enough to want to watch in theaters on its own merits, and thereâs no reason to watch it to avoid spoilers because they decided to spoil the ending on purpose! So it's only reasonable that potential theater viewers who couldnât watch Thunderbolts on its opening weekend saw that reveal and decided to just wait to watch it at home in a few months. And this isnât even covering whether the ending that got spoiled was good and exciting or not.
But since you have probably read the many, many words Iâve written about the ending of Thunderbolts, youâre aware that I think it's trash. So now it's time to get into the main takeaway that I hope Disney gets from Thunderbolts losing so much money. The movie performed poorly because it was a bad movie. The movie was ugly to look at, the story only happened because practically every character was being actively stupid, and almost everyone we knew from previous movies was out of character. The actors had little to no chemistry, most of the characters in what was supposed to be an ensemble movie had little to nothing to do and hardly spoke to one another. The movie felt detached from everything that led up to it and the well-established world it was supposed to be a part of. The themes and messaging were shallow and trite, and as Iâve written before, the ending ruins any semblance of meaning the movie tried to have. The ending which Disney decided for whatever inane reason to spoil *on purpose* almost as soon as the move came out!
So I would hope that there is a meeting behind the scenes at Disney where they are somehow able to come to the straightforward conclusion that Thunderbolts did poorly because it was a bad movie! And while issues like the rise of streaming, competition with a healthy summer movie schedule, and the general reduced traffic at movie theaters certainly didnât help Thunderboltsâ performance, those factors shouldnât be the focus of the discussion. Mostly because those arenât things that Disney could change, and there is so much about Thunderboltsâ poor performance that absolutely was Disneyâs fault.
While I primarily want Thunderbolts to serve as a teaching moment about quality control and not spoiling your terrible ending on purpose as soon as the movie comes out, there is another takeaway I want Disney to receive from this loss of money. Another reason I think it's important that Thunderbolts bombed, and it's because I think Disney basically pulled a Target with this movie. What is âpulling a Targetâ? Well, a few months back, in response to the 2024 election in the United States, Target, a homegoods store, decided to repeal its DEI policies as well as agreements specifically in support of Black artists. This came as a surprise to the storeâs regular customers since Target was well known for being a company that marketed itself towards a more diverse customer base. It sold clothing and other items geared to queer and BIPOC customers. It partnered with designers who were often Black, queer, or POC. Target was by no means a revolutionary company, it was obvious that the store made these decisions for profit motivated reasons. But even so, it was nice to see. Thatâs why it came as quite the shock when Target was one of the first companies to publicly see and follow the tide turning towards reactionary values upon the 2024 election. In response, multiple Black organizers including Dr. Jamal Harrison Bryant and Nekima Levy Armstrong, multiple Black churches as well as other organizations and many individuals called for a boycott of Target. That boycott has continued at the time of me writing this, and it seems to be working quite well. Target is feeling significant financial losses because of its decision to capitulate to racists.
So what does this have to do with Disney and Thunderbolts? Well, in addition to Thunderbolts just being a bad movie in general, I think it's important to shine a light on the ways in which this movie feels like a huge step back in terms of representation. Representation which has been a clear focus of projects in the MCU in the last few years. These are examples that have been brought up by plenty of other people here, and Iâm going to give a non-exhaustive list. The marketing of this movie described it as a departure from recent projects, saying that it heralded a new direction for the MCU. Implying that the previous movies were somehow not up to standard, which was not true. The implication that previous movies centering around Black and POC characters were being somehow âin the wrong directionâ while Thunderbolts, with a majority white cast was now âthe right directionâ is telling. It is implicitly racist messaging that Disney signed off on when using this as a way to promote the film. Thunderbolts also got a bigger promotional rollout in terms of trailers, billboards, and finally its red carpet premiere compared to that of Brave New World, a film with a Black lead, Black writer, Black director, and majority Black and POC cast. This also feels like an act of implicit racial discrimination.
Now onto the actual film itself. Much of this movie can be seen as a step back in terms of representation. Iâve touched on some of this before, but it might be useful to see a good deal of it all listed out here. This movie treats its Black characters terribly - Ava, who is supposedly a lead character, is hardly given any lines or anything to do. As for side characters, first of all there are very few of them, and second of all they are all treated terribly by the narrative. The senator Bucky is supposed to be working with in order to take down Val is ultimately betrayed with the ânew Avengersâ ending. Walkerâs ex-wife Olivia and her child are mistreated so greatly by John that she feels the need to leave their marriage for the sake of her safety. Mel, Valâs assistant, is convinced by Bucky to help take down Val. But, again, she is also betrayed despite taking a huge risk by the ânew Avengersâ ending. And while the treatment of Melâs character isnât specifically anti-Black, she is also a woman of color who is disrespected by the narrative. But Mel was originally going to be played by national treasure Ayo Edebiri, meaning that this movie was aiming to be an anti-Black sweep.Â
This movie also disrespects Black characters who arenât even on screen. Despite being the reason Bucky is even alive, the Wakandans who were threatened by Val in Wakanda Forever are essentially forgotten about in this movie, especially with the ânew Avengersâ ending. Sam, Captain fucking America, is actively erased in this movie even though Bucky, his partner who canonically *loves* him, is one of the main characters. The only references made regarding Sam are Val talking about the red hulk fight in Brave New World while deliberately not mentioning the person who saved the day and John saying âon your leftâ. A moment which is so agonizingly awful that I wrote a separate rant all about it. I also already wrote about how Johnâs treatment as some kind of morally grey anti-hero in this movie rather than actually addressing his racist behavior towards Sam feels like a way of capitulating to his racist stans. Sam is only explicitly mentioned in a post credits scene where he is openly mocked. Overall, Thunderbolts feels like a movie that capitulates to the anti-Black backlash that more recent MCU projects have received.Â
But Iâd argue that Thunderbolts isnât just a step back in terms of racism. It also has plenty of moments that feel explicitly sexist and ableist. Iâve already covered the ableism in Thunderbolts before, as have plenty of others. But essentially a lot of the messaging around mental health in this movie feels ultimately very shallow and patronizing. As if someoneâs problems can be solved with a group hug of all things. Also, the choice of which characters get their mental health explored falls into typical troubling patterns. Again, we see the rooms of John and Yelena but not Ava. This matches disappointing narratives in which white mental health is addressed while the mental health of Black and POC individuals is largely ignored. Finally, Buckyâs prosthetic arm gets removed and used as a prop for a cheap joke *multiple times* in this movie. While Bucky has lost his prosthesis in previous projects, the way in which it is treated has never felt so gross as it does in this movie.
Onto the sexism. Now, yes, it is cool that this is a movie where the main character, Yelena, is a woman. And the Thunderbolts team has *two* women, yay! But, as I covered before, only *white* Yelena receives any actual attention in this story. Now this team could have had three women on it, if Antonia hadnât been immediately fridged at the start of the movie. Fridging is a sexist narrative trope in which a woman character is killed brutally to provide shock value and motivate another character. Whatâs even worse in this case is that Antoniaâs death doesnât even motivate anyone, so it is only there for shock value! Not only that, but she dies in a way that mimics her original trauma of being blown up as a child. She gets to say one line, she is not mourned and is instead barely acknowledged. And it seems that she was killed off because fans didnât like how she was Taskmaster in Black Widow. So, in a movie that is purportedly about redeeming characters and giving them a chance to shine, they kill off a woman because men online didnât like her. Yikes! And they destroy the suit as well, so now nobody gets to be Taskmaster!
While killing off Antonia feels like the most deliberately sexist story decision in Thunderbolts, there are more. And these are admittedly more my own rather cynical opinions, but this is my essay so whatever. I feel that the way this teamup even happened feels sexist. Because Ava, Yelena, and John are all introduced as working for Val and doing objectively bad things on her behalf. Yelena is literally blowing up buildings, for instance. And in the case of Ava and Yelena, this feels like a departure from their previously established characters. Even when Yelena is working for Val in Hawkeye, she is shown to have an explicit moral compass. She is going after Clint because she was told he was responsible for Natashaâs death, and because he was actually someone who killed a lot of people. And when she realizes that she was misled at the end, she stops trying to kill him. Yelena spares Kate every time she fights her because she understands that sheâs ultimately innocent. She even goes as far as to share information about who actually hired her to kill Clint just because she respected Kate enough to let her know. Yelenaâs certainly not portrayed as purely good in this appearance, but sheâs certainly a long way from her characterization in Thunderbolts.Â
Ava receives similar treatment to Yelena. In Ant man and the Wasp, Ava shares how she worked for SHIELD (implied to actually be HYDRA) doing covert assassinations in order to get help treating her debilitating condition. But she also reveals that, once she realized that she was getting led on with no actual concrete help, she left. She understood that what she did was wrong, and while leaving only when she realized they werenât going to help her wasnât evidence of her being an especially *good* person, she clearly wasn't explicitly evil. She ends the movie acknowledging that she did the wrong thing and hurt people, implying she wanted to fix things. There is little to explain why she would want to work for Val in Thunderbolts.
And my issue with Ava and Yelena murdering people for Val isnât simply the fact that theyâre doing a bad thing. My issue is more so that there is little explanation for why precisely they are doing this, other than the fact that they are apparently pretty awful people. There could have been plenty of good motivations for these two to be working for Val that would feel more in character. Maybe they could need the money for something specific - Yelena might feel the need to financially support her other widows who canât work. Ava might have some device sheâs saving up for that could cure her condition (because that whole element of her character seems to have been dropped). Or they could be victims of coercion - Val could blackmail Yelena with threats to get all the ex-widows arrested. And she could also have been threatening Avaâs science dad Bill Foster. But instead Ava and Yelena are working for Val simply because they like having a job? Even though thereâs no reason they couldnât just have a different form of employment?
Ultimately, what *I* think makes this decision sexist is that it puts Ava and Yelena - women who were forced into enacting violence because they were victims of trafficking and manipulation - into the same box as John. Meanwhile, John did all of his awful shit of his own accord! Adding Alexei into the mix makes it even worse, because it paints a picture where the child trafficker *and* his victim are somehow both bad guys who need to redeem themselves. And while I know that the decision to not really go into Ava and Yelenaâs motivations for working for Val was a result of lazy writing, the result is that it feels very sexist. I might even go so far as saying it dips into some victim blaming. Thunderbolts basically says âthese women who had to compromise their moral values in order to survive their terrible circumstances turned out to actually be bad people because, when given the opportunity, they decided to just do the same thing for a living. And theyâre just as bad as the men who did terrible things despite having no history of manipulation or coercion.â Now, was this messaging intentional? I have no idea. But this is what happens when writers donât put the proper care into what theyâre writing. Impact is more important than intent after all.
Other bits of sexism that Iâll just go ahead and throw in there is to reiterate the miserable treatment of Olivia. She is of course the victim of both sexism and anti-Black racism in the form of misogynoir. Her pain of losing her relationship with her high school sweetheart husband who revealed himself to both her and the world as a monster. Of losing Lamar, who was also clearly her friend as well as Johnâs. Of enduring harassment because of her husbandâs actions, being neglected after giving birth to her child. Feeling unsafe enough that she had to leave their marriage. None of that is covered at all, and instead all of this is treated as reasons to feel bad for John of all people. That is textbook misogynoir because Olivia is receiving a lack of empathy because of her status as a woman and a Black person.Â
Even Valâs treatment feels like sexism. In previous projects, Val was teased as a threatening and compelling villain. She was coming after Wakanda, the most powerful nation in the world. She was recruiting all sorts of people for some nefarious end. And the fact that she was a villainess was cool! The MCU really hasnât had a good list of women antagonists, let alone villains. But in Thunderbolts, we donât even learn what Valâs ultimate goal with her hirelings even was. What ever happened to her âwhen things really hit the fanâ line towards John in Falcon in the Winter Soldier? In Thunderbolts, Val is ultimately a bumbling fool who creates all of her problems. She fails to kill off Yelena, Ava, and John. She accidentally unleashes Sentry, and her ânew Avengersâ idea was a really dumb choice that shouldnât have worked. She only got away with things because everyone else was somehow even stupider than her. Sheâs just not a compelling villain anymore which is really disappointing! After Wakanda Forever, I was looking forward to seeing her be a thorn in our hero's side for multiple movies. But now thereâs just no good way to take her seriously.
I might even say that Yelena and Bobâs relationship feels pretty shaky in this regard. Now if their dynamic had occurred in a better movie, I think I would have maybe given it more grace. However, in this particular movie, I just canât bring myself to provide a more generous interpretation. It feels like the movie is saying âyou know what every depressed woman needs? Some grown ass man to take care of!â Because as Nicque Marina has said multiple times, Bob is barely a character. He is a sad white man who the fandom canât wait to infantilize more than the narrative already does. And Yelenaâs story now seems to be tied to some random guy we know nothing about. This relationship seems to supersede any others she could have had with other much better defined women like Kate or Antonia. It feels like they took a well realized woman character and just *had to* tie her story to some guy. Again, if this had been done better or been in a better movie I wouldnât have minded it, but on top of everything else this movie has done I just canât help but see this move as cynically, casually sexist.
And *finally* Iâm going to tear into the ânew Avengersâ ending once more, this time from a political angle. Because if people are out there calling Sam conservative for having the audacity to visit the White House as Captain motherfucking America, I can talk about the *actual* conservative messaging in Thunderbolts. Because this team of âloveableâ misfits end the story working for the actual CIA. The United States Central Intelligence Agency. The government agency responsible for some of the country's most egregious acts of imperialism. Iâm talking about deposing democratically elected governments and political assassinations. And thatâs just in real life. In-universe, Val was actively heading the CIA when she tried to overthrow the sovereign African nation of Wakanda, when she hired the members of the Thunderbolts to assassinate people and blow up buildings, and when she experimented on Bob to turn him into a living weapon. And the conclusion of this movie argues that, by going along with Valâs plan and working for her publicly, calling themselves the ânew Avengersâ, the Thunderbolts are doing a good thing. This is a win for them. Even if people in-universe donât necessarily like it, they just donât know the whole story! What matters is it makes Yelena and all of her dumbass friends she just met happy! See, Thunderbolts says that it doesnât matter if you are helping your employer commit terrible crimes. All that matters is that you are personally fulfilled. This is a deeply conservative message, essentially saying âfuck you, got mine!â. The CIA deposes governments and experiments on US civilians? Who cares as long as it doesnât affect you personally, says Thunderbolts!
Now if only a few of these things had happened in Thunderbolts, I wouldnât have gone this hard on the movie. But the sum total of all of these parts paints a pretty dark picture. It feels socially and politically conservative on all fronts, in a way that feels like an active step back from the messaging that was prioritised in multiple years worth of movies and shows. And it's conveyed in a pretty insidious way. We arenât having characters saying sexist jokes or racial slurs. Instead weâre seeing erasure, narrative mistreatment, and unfortunate implications that simply were ignored or actively encouraged by the writers. So when people notice these problems they canât easily point to one obvious thing to convey their point. That makes these obviously regressive narrative issues harder to call out and discuss at large.
Now when I say âpulling a Targetâ, Iâm not trying to imply that Thunderbolts bombing is exactly like the situation with Target. The Target boycott is the result of many people putting a lot of effort into organizing, while Thunderbolts flopping doesnât seem to be the result of any intentional boycott. Target is also losing way more money for a longer period of time, while Disney making one poorly performing movie is probably not going to hurt the companyâs bottom line for very long. When I use the term âpulling a Targetâ I am more referencing the general pattern - a company learns that appealing to a more diverse customer base makes it more money, so it features more representation to appeal to that audience. This works well for years, which is why it is surprising that this particular company used the regressive societal implications of the 2024 election as an opportunity to roll back their progressive policies and representation. This rollback then backfires terribly, losing the customer base they were cultivating while also failing to gain the reactionary customer base that they were capitulating to, since those kinds of customers had already written off that company years ago. Cue executive panic behind the scenes, line goes down, ect. Turns out thereâs no âgo woke, go brokeâ thereâs just âbe racist cowards, get fucked assholesâ.
So thatâs my likely idealistic wish for what executives take away from the poor performance of Thunderbolts. That this sudden turn away from diverse representation is not only craven and cowardly behavior, but ultimately is also financially disastrous. Because the kinds of viewers who would be pleased by such a reactionary decision arenât watching Thunderbolts because it has a woman lead. And because those kinds of viewers have written off all of the MCU as woke trash years ago. And the weird loud online John Walker stans didnât actually equate to actual tickets purchased! So these kinds of decisions only served to alienate the fanbase that Disney has been actively cultivating for the last few years. Add the fact that these regressive narrative decisions seem to have also had a negative impact on the overall quality of the story, and you get a clear message. Thunderbolts was a genuine, multilevel fuck up that should never be repeated!
I do think it's completely possible that the executives behind the scenes might not learn the right lessons from this movie at all. They could just chalk it up to bad luck, with the movie coming out during a summer of back to back blockbusters. Or it could be brushed off because the characters were too obscure. But as someone who genuinely wants to see the MCU continue to make good movies and shows, to last long enough to give us the stories theyâve been setting up for this diverse array of characters, I want them to take away actual actionable lessons. Lessons about the importance of cooperation between projects, quality control, respecting established characterization, valuing diversity and putting the proper care into representation. A reminder that it takes years to build trust in an audience, but it only takes one big mistake to ruin it.
i'm not gonna tag this properly bc i really, really don't want to talk to anyone who i'm not mutuals or friends with about this but like. the woobificiation of john walker/u.s. agent is so fucking wild to me. listen, i hate that guy. if john walker has no haters, i'm dead. but i like his character for the purpose he serves in narratives (if written correctly). he's supposed to be the fucking worst. you're supposed to hate him (and shout out to wyatt russell for bringing that so vividly to the screen tbh).
and, most importantly, you're also supposed to see in as a reflection of a very specific political stance in being the antithesis to the essence of captain america. that is the point of him. not to be a hero. not to be "redeemed" of everything he's ever done because he decides to save some civilians or changes his mind about fighting on the wrong side (which he does several times in the canons he exists in. while also still being the worst. because he does it only when it aligns with his specific outlook on life which, guess what, is fucking evil). to be really fucking topical about it: he's that guy who voted for trump every time. yeah, maybe he doesn't agree with everything the administration says or does, but he still made that choice and he only regrets it when it affects him. he can only see positive change when it's within his very narrow view of the world. he is a reflection of the military industrial complex, american imperialism, and the propaganda/brainwashing associated with that.
also: you can enjoy a character who is bad and does bad things. if done correctly, that's what makes them interesting. he is a useful narrative tool to tell a really poignant story. but when you start turning that guy into your babygirl or whatever the fuck? you've lost the plot. you don't understand this character on the very, very basic level they exist on.
Itâs because his fans identify with him the most. Every time someone goes through the list of his crimes, there is a rebuttal of âhow is that bad, I would have done the same thingâ. Thatâs the issue, people think their own morality is the justifiable good. If they could see themselves do the actions of this character, they wouldnât be able to handle being called evil.
Like you said, itâs the most basic media literacy to watch a show about honor and identify who represents the hope for the people and who will corrupt the role. Now we got Sam Wilson is a fascist/ terrorist sympathizer for simply willing to talk to an âenemyâ rather than gun them down. Fans still calling Karli and the flagsmashers terrorists and the idea that the us government groomed John into violence is crazy work.
He hasnât had a redemption arc and shouldnât. Some people are just bad. You nailed it on the head with the American imperialism which went over the heads of so many. The show subtly calls out the us government on itâs hypocrisy but I guess blond hair, blue eyes is enough to blind.
Everything to do with Thunderbolts continues to be The Worst
So Funko expects people to buy the bobbles of the child trafficker and the war criminal, but not the only character with an actual cool power. Okay lol
With the rampant racism going on in the Sam and Sambucky tags on a daily basis, I thought Iâd put together a list of resources that people can tap into when writing Sam. Because idk if maybe y'all don't know any better but it's it getting so exhausting seeing your favorite character constantly mistreated or seeing hate crimes in his tag all day.
And listen as a white person myself, I HIGHLY recommend that you go through the stereotypes and tropes carefully and with a mindset of learning. I also highly recommend that if you get offended, defensive, or irritated about anything you read here, you inspect that. And if your first reaction is to double down and argue, inspect that too.
Addressing our biases is uncomfortable but not as uncomfortable as some of you have made people in this fandom with the way you treat Black characters and fans.
Do better.
Stereotypes & Tropes
The link in the heading above is a guide to quite a few harmful stereotypes and tropes to be mindful of when writing characters of color by writingwithcolor. I highly recommend you read through their content.
Below is a list of things we see most often in the Sam and Sambucky tags as well as links from sources talking about similar situations in other spaces:
Infantilization of white characters (At PoCâs expense): Bucky being framed as a helpless child who can't think for himself and that always being Sam's problem.
Black Man, Protecting his Traumatized White Wife: Sam always comforting and being concerned about Bucky when the comfort and care is never reciprocal, and when 'caretaker' Sam's only role/purpose in the story.
Writing a Comedic Black Character: Sam being over-the-top funny and saying things that are wildly out of character. Those incorrect quotes that frame him as joking but he's really mean and hateful, sometimes even violent, toward Bucky? Yeah.
Sam being sexually aggressive: why do people insist that Sam is the top in the relationship? That he's a dom, that he's rough in bed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with top!sam, but insisting that he's no-doubt aggressive and dominant in bed? Nah. Same goes for hyper sexualization.
Size Difference: Describing or drawing Sam as bigger or taller than his white partner when canon clearly depicts otherwise.
Villainizing Black Characters/Actors: Sam is always wrong, Sam is unfair, Sam is a bully, Sam is violent. Mackie is a misogynist. Mackie is homophobic etc.
Writingwithcolor also has this search engine that finds anything on their blog.
Resources for writing Sam as a well rounded character:
A lot of the time Sam is written without any depth or nuance. In many fics, he only exists to prop the white dude up. Very rarely is he written as the caring, badass, heartthrob that he really is. Be mindful of Sam's role in your story, is he always chasing Bucky's affection, are you using Sam as a reader insert to lust after Bucky? Do you diminish/ignore Sam's skills and knowledge to make the white dude look good/smart? Do you consider his trauma and mental struggles as well when you write about Bucky's and how Bucky leans on him for support? Remember Sam's POV does not equal a Sam-centric story.
Below are a bunch of links on how cool Sam really is to help you shape his character in your stories:
From the 2019 samwilsonbirthdaybang:
MCU Wiki (link updated by me since Sam is now Cap)
Marvel Wiki
A folder full of Sam meta
Complete Badass (reblog)
NCO (non-commissioned officer) and why
Sam Wilson Meta: A Timeline
Sam Wilson's USAF Rank
Sam Wilson is a US Special Forces Pararescueman, and a PTSD counselor.Â
Sam's role at the VA was a peer counselor, not a therapist. here's the difference.
A compilation of Sam Wilsonâs personality traits
Sam's PTSD
Sam's age & Riley's death
More badass Sam Wilson
Resources for drawing/coloring Sam:
Here's a hint: he's not beige or grey. Too often do we see art of someone who is supposed to be Sam but he's one shade darker than the white dude. These posts go into detail with some great advise:
Creating Black Characters
Whitewashing & Colorism
Coloring gifs of poc
Y'all can't draw or color Black ppl to save your lives.
Color picking
Color theory & darker skin
Some examples of whitewashing skin tone: this, this, this, this and this. Loads more examples on whyaretheywhite!
Here's a visual:
see where this dude's skin tone is on the color picker:
compared to Mackie's skin tone?:
Look at the difference between those two shades! Remember whitewashing doesn't only refer to the lightening of skin, it also includes drawing Black characters with European facial features, and not incorporating the appropriate hair texture etc.
Additional resources & reading:
How to write fic for Black characters: a guide for non-Black fans
Colourblindness
White Authors and Topics to Avoid/Tread Carefully
Physical Descriptions:
Dark skin reactions to cold weather
Skin color changes due to health
Describing skin tone
Skin tone & food comparisons: it's weird. stop it.
Dehumanizinig Sam
Antiblackness in it's many forms
It's not preference, it's racism.
Antiblackness: Even more examples
It's not shipwars, surprise, it's also racism.
More Stereotypes
Interracial Relationships
For now that's it. I might add useful articles I come across to this post as time goes on. Please also add your own resources but fuckery will be blocked.
These resources are by no means exhaustive, they are just what i have used as references throughout the years. You will do yourself (and a multitude of Sam fans) a massive favor by being introspective about your role in this fandom and how it affects Black fans and other fans of Sam Wilson. Go and read the rest of the articles/posts on these blogs and apply the context to the Sam and Sambucky fandoms, the similarities are stark.
xoxo, a tired Sam fan who just wants to see him loved and respected.
This is an incredible list of resources and information - I know I've made mistakes in the past just from a quick skim of the contents. Thank you, OP, for your time and cognitive labour in putting this together.
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if youâre wondering why spellcheck and grammar check is worse now, itâs because they replaced it with AI! đĽ°
now, instead of maintaining a comprehensive, nuanced, and human-maintained encyclopedia by which to check your document, they have switched to an AI that just compares what youâve written to what other people write in, say, Google Docs, and use the most commonly used iteration.
ever have it change something like âall intents and purposesâ to âall intensive purposesâ or âshouldâveâ to âshould ofâ? thatâs why!
people make the same spelling and grammar mistakes so often, AI thinks thatâs the way you say it because it is a PATTERN DETECTOR and cannot THINK let alone use language.
Marvel's recent intros and the continual disrespect of Sam Wilson
So, Sam fans will unfortunately know that Marvel disrespecting Sam is no new thing. But I wanted to draw attention to the specific case of the Marvel's three most recent intros. Deadpool and Woolverine, Captain America Brave New World, and Thunderbolts.
1) Deadpool. Here you see the typical Marvel fanfare. Except it's been tweaked to include Deadpool as one might expect. It also includes the same years-old shield-throwing footage of Steve and various other characters that are no longer active. (Tony, Nat, etc. even a shot of Jane Foster as Thor though, a one-off appearance)
In fact, there's multiple shots of Steve - bracing with the shield, throwing the shield, catching the hammer.
Do you know who it doesn't include?? Sam Wilson. Nothing to indicate that Sam Wilson has taken over the mantle of Captain America. But-but wait! This was before Cap 4, you say, so maybe they didn't want to use tv show footage of him as Cap?
Well, there's glimpses of She Hulk and Moonlight - so don't tell me they don't include character moments from the shows.
But most egregiously, not only does Sam not appear in this Marvel fanfare as Cap, but ALL previous shots of Sam as Falcon have been eradicated. There's not ONE single frame of him. At all.
(Edit: okay there's ONE frame đ . Split second glimpse in the V. Overall point remains.)
Let's now move on to Brave New World.
2) Sam's 1st film. What a great opportunity to showcase some of Sam's best moments in the MCU? His flying split-kick-fllip, his kicking a helicopter, him flying through the portal like an angel, any of his TFATWS opening flight sequence, ANY of the shots of him in Ep6 as Cap. Nope. Nothing. We don't even get a fanfare at all. We get this:
Now, you can argue that this was deliberate to start the film off with the sense of paranoia and dread. Spy thriller stuff. But after the blatant erasure of Sam in the Deadpool intro, I firmly believe this choice was made by Marvel execs who knew they'd have no excuse for not showing clips of Sam in the intro to his own damn movie. So they did away with it altogether.
3) Thunderbolts. This intro was not the typical fanfare given that it went way back to comic pages flipping rather than showing clips of the MCU adaptations. And a lot of panels of Sentry, before turning black for the Void, which..fair. It's foreshadowing.
(I can only add some gifs because of 1 video limit.)
The Deadpool and Cap4 intros to me as the worst offenders here. One blatantly erases Sam's history of appearing the in the intro, and the second removes the opportunity to showcase your lead's best action moments.
At this point, given ALL the other ways Marvel has sidelined and diminished Sam, on the big and small screen, it feels deliberate. Movie audiences have not been given the visual reminder of Sam's importance, nor the feel-good association of seeing him before the latest big MCU entry. Add this to the disrespect that is Thunderbolts in general, and it's another kick in the guts.
I guess, in conclusion, I'd say it will be VERY interesting to see how the next Marvel film, Fantastic Four, opens their film. Especially after that "Reed will be the leader of the Avengers" nonsense from this week. I would predict another intro like Thunderbolts, drawing from comic book panels (given this is an alternate universe). So then, when will we see Sam as Cap in the intro? Doomsday?!?!? With the million odd characters being stuffed into that?