so, I have a few things to say to this.
'right-wing fundie homophobes'
first off, you have no idea what my political beliefs are. from my recollection, I have never posted about politics outside of where they collide with religion in some cases (just homosexuality and abortion, I believe). i could be a hardcore democrat for all you know! you can align yourself with a political party without agreeing 100% with what they stand for.
the definition of homophobic is: having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against gay people.
I do not dislike queer people. I do not prejudice against queer people. I do not hate queer people. I simply do not agree with you, just like I don't agree with people on a slew of other issues, from super important to people who don't like cherries. I have never and will never say hateful things or go out and attack anyone under this banner, intending to cause them harm by lashing out against them. if you state an opinion that 'wishing all people like OP one day wake up with all the blood on their hands visible' (a real tag by @havinganormalone) it hurts my feelings, but I know that it is an opinion that will never effect me personally beyond my feelings.
the definition of bigot is: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
i am not intolerantly devoted to my beliefs. i am humble enough that I am willing to change my mind on things (and have!) if provided with correct evidence, good arguments, and with a gentle manner that is convincing and correct. if I ever find myself in the wrong on anything ever, whether IRL or on here, I will correct myself publically so anyone I may have effected know that I have changed my mind on a subject. I have been taught to think critically, and I know a good/bad argument when I see one.
for almost everything else you said, I think this reblog does a incredible job of talking about it, as well as the anon asks she answered on this on her blog.
but these two things I will talk about more:
How we are born, how we were made by the God that OP somehow thinks she is worshiping by hating us.
name me one time that I ever said I hated anyone under the LGBTQIA+ banner. name me one time and I will take everything in this response to you right back.
and hatred, anger, and rage are sins as well, in almost all cases, no matter who or what it is directed against! hypothetically, if I hate my neighbor for calling me a racial slur, to the point where I actively plot against them in my heart and try to attack them, that is just as wrong as if I do the same to you or anyone else over homosexuality.
In other words, the problem is societal homophobia - something that people like OP think is great!
a) I wasn't talking about real life, I was talking about fandoms
b) once again, name one time that I ever said that I though societal homophobia was a great thing
Critical thinking skills are free.
which is why I am making this post.
Don't get so blinkered by petty shipping wars that you fall for homophobic propaganda.
how is anything I ever said or did homophobic propaganda???
now I'm gonna talk about your tags because I believe that they are important.
#sidenote: lol the mincemeat my stepdad (ordained minister with a phd in theology) would make#of this person's really surfacey out-to-lunch 'bible interpretation'#btw if you're going to say you're ok with us being gay as long as we don't have the dirty gay sex#then you're saying you're not ok with us being gay. because that's what being gay is. sorry not sorry!#god wouldn't have made me this way if i'm supposed to just feel guilty my whole life. about an activity that hurts no one#and affects nobody who is not me and my partners#anyway i'll dedicate both my next gay smut story and my next pussy-eating session to people like op getting well soon!#bigotry. including the kind that comes from misinterpretations of ancient books. is an awful disease. but i believe you can beat it :)#homophobia#fandom nonsense
first I would like to know what my 'surfacey bible interpretation' actually is. in every single post I have made about christianity (or anything, really) ever, I have been well-reasoned, logical, had Bible verses, and used teaching by credited theologians to be clear and accurate. in many of these posts, my father, (who has a bachelors in history and four masters degrees in different aspects of theology, ministry, being a pastor,and is working on another in counciling as well) has proof-read, so I can be positive I am not leading anyone astray. And he sometimes has suggested I add another verse or idea to what I'm saying, but has agreed every time- not because I'm his daughter and he feels the need to coddle me, but because he can see I have done a good job. so if you will show me using scripture and arguements with a basis in solid theology, I will treat this comment with weight.
#btw if you're going to say you're ok with us being gay as long as we don't have the dirty gay sex#then you're saying you're not ok with us being gay. because that's what being gay is. sorry not sorry!
i do not believe that any aspect of same-sex pairings is okay, sex or not. marriage was designed to be between one man and one woman, biologically, for our harmony as well as reproduction. it isn't just about sex, its about life. if that's what you wanted me to say, there, I said it.
however, this is never the way I would choose to say it unless I was pressed, like here. I believe that if I ever correct anyone on anything, from this, to a small child hitting their sibling, I should correct with gentleness and grace, being kind and measured in my response, even if my personal feelings are hurt, since I know my thoughts might also hurt theirs, even if that is the last thing I want to do.
#god wouldn't have made me this way if i'm supposed to just feel guilty my whole life. about an activity that hurts no one
God didn't 'make you' queer. Satan used this particular kind of sin to influence you for his evil purpose, just like he uses lust to hurt some, tendencies to steal for other, urges to be full of wrath for even more, and so on. God allows us to indulge in our sin for a while, so we can realize how much we truly need Him, and so we turn to Him willingly, AND so that we can reach people who struggle with the same thing. I used to be a chronic liar, I couldnt have a basic conversation with someone without lying through my teeth, but Jesus saved me from that, and by His grace I can't remember the last time I lied! and now, whenever I talk to people who also struggle with lying, I can sympathize and offer advice that I know works because I walked through it. this short here talks about this some, and I think that it would be good for you to talk to other Christians who used to live in the queer of lifestyle you are right now, and you can ask them what made them change their mind.
and I would argue that yes, it does hurt you, in ways that you probably don't notice, and even if you do, don't understand. we all have the need to worship God, our Creator, embedded inside of us- I hope and pray that someday you will see it for what it is.
#anyway i'll dedicate both my next gay smut story and my next pussy-eating session to people like op getting well soon!#bigotry. including the kind that comes from misinterpretations of ancient books. is an awful disease. but i believe you can beat it :)#homophobia#fandom nonsense
well that's a nice way of promoting porn to punch me in the mouth and relish in the feeling of seeing me spit out blood. and if you truly believe that my opinions are an 'awful disease' and that you 'believe I can beat it :)' then maybe slamming my face into the ground isn't the best way to explain it to me. if you think I'm wrong, maybe you could explain why with grace- the same way that I did in this post you pointed out earlier, (which I have not deleted and not blocked you from seeing) where I clearly state that this isn't a personal attack on one group of people, its just one of the things that is talked about most in this day and age, and often poorly by Christians who just frankly dont know how to talk to people that they cannot relate to. which is wrong, and I am sorry for that. like I said:
and to anyone who falls under the LGBTQIA+ category and has ever been aggressively attacked by a Christian, I am sorry. that is not what Christianity is about. yes, I don't agree with what you choose to do. but no, I do not think being aggressive in our response is the answer at all. we are called to preach the gospel with love and grace and patience, and be firm and unwavering in our beliefs but gentle, because we cannot hold you to the standards we hold ourselves to, unless and until you accept them for yourself. its unreasonable to expect that you should follow these guidlines when you don't believe in them.
this is what I wrote in that post, and I stand by it firmly.
now on to the comments you and @corncobcooler made on this. (note: since I drafted this post, more comments have been added, but since I think I've covered everything in them already, I'm not going to go over them at this present time)
(corn) this post was written by someone who believes that if you are christian and support lgbt+ that you have been led astray by false teachers and the devil. while men obviously should be able to have close emotional relationships without being shipped or forced into a romantic or sexual relationship, this post is not really about that. this person is a bigot who uses her religious beliefs to discriminate against lgbt+ people.
see above for calling me a bigot and saying I discriminate against you.
(cardassian) thanks for posting this, but i do think it's also important to note that "men" as in real people are not being forced into anything by women and queer people writing fanfiction online. the reason for straight male hangups about their friendships looking "gay" is not fanfiction, it's straight male homophobia. the reason people making posts like this keep turning out to be right-wing christian homophobes is because the post itself is a homophobic message.
posts like this one are just an online "fandom" way to blame queer people for our own oppression, which is something that someone like OP who is *actually* oppressing us has a vested interest in. It's just the fandom equivalent of when people suggest that all homophobes are secretly gay - it can't possibly be straight people's bigotry to blame, right? It's got be us doing it to ourselves!
once again, I do not think anything I said here or anywhere else is homophobic, which I understand is not a view that the world you or you share, but Ive used facts to prove my point with this. and show me where I have ever oppressed you.
(corn) i don’t necessarily agree, as i think that there are times when people go too far with either shipping or rpf. i think there are times where fandom spaces go too far and create uncomfortable situations for people who clearly do not have romantic feelings for each other. while this post specifically is homophobic, i don’t think that it’s homophobic for men or anyone really to be uncomfortable with being shipped with their best friends.
i agree with this first part actually. people do go far in shipping people (like how people are shipping Walker Scobell and Leah Sava Jefferies, despite the fact that they are MINORS and are good friends, and if they ever do have a romantic relationship, it is none of our business) But, I disagree with you saying that people being shipped with friends when they don't want to be isn't homophobic.
(cardassian) I agree fandom especially for RPF often goes too far. What makes the argument on this post homophobic is singling out gay people and gay ships when straight people have been harassing famous people over not being in the right straight relationships for much longer. There’s no reason to single out gay ships unless you think accusing someone of being in a gay relationship they aren’t is somehow worse, which is homophobic
I’m in a rush so i recommend reading the response to the last time someone like OP made a post like this: https://www.tumblr.com/jchance4d4/617134100801830912/writer-this-is-one-of-my-male-characters-he for why OP’s post is in fact an inherently homophobic argument. The gist of it is they’re pretending it’s targeted at invasive RPF fans but they’re really just upset with any gay shipping whatsoever, when they say it this way and point a finger at Tumblr
*unless you think accusing someone of being in a gay relationship they aren’t is somehow worse than accusing them of being in a straight relationship they aren’t (as in, that’s what homophobic, thinking the gay part makes the accusation worse somehow)
like Katie said in her reblog, I wasn't calling out gay people in any way, shape, or form. and it isn't just about gay shipping, its taking two men, who have an unusually strong, healthy relationship, and are stronger than brothers, and saying that they have to be gay for them to be like this. which, I believe, is devaluing male friendships. and I never said or thought that the gay part makes it worse.
(corn) that's a great point. thank you for bringing that up because i didn't think about that when i was writing my responses. at least something good came out of this homophobe's post. thank you for being patient and responding in a respectful way.
(cardassian) yw! Thanks for responding well too, I figured we were largely in agreement to begin with so just wanted to clarify :) glad we could work together to get people to stop disseminating homophobic propaganda!
like I said, I did nothing wrong, and I am not a homophobe. and I wish that you could've done the same to me here- but clearly you don't respect me enough to do so.
then Cardassian goes on to respond to a reblog by @robertwire , which is:
#sowwy i got lost in the notes where someone was like#fandom FREAKS are shipping david and jonathan from the BIBLE#a) obviously. b) remembering fondly that person i used to follow#who had an insanely involved jesus/judas gay motorcycle club bpf [bible person fiction] universe#also the person in the notes who is like people do this to WOMEN too why cant WOMEN be friends#obsessed with your dense unenterable mind. receiving no real world signal at all.#anyway love this rebuttal to this exhausting thing that pops up every ~two years like clockwork
and Cardassian said this:
right? Dumbass illiterate Christian fundie tumblr really will take a relationship that a segment of Biblical scholars have read as queer for thousands of years and claim that shipping Tumblr made it up!
show me credible biblical sources that are thousands of years old saying holy people in the Bible are queer. and I know that Tumblr did not make it up, but it is simply not true.
i then appreciate that @curatorotl said:
you literally called someone you've never met and never spoken to a bigot
which I thought was nice, thanks <3
(corn) is blatant homophobia and transphobia no longer objectively considered bigotry? the op is very clear on how they perceive the lgbt+ community in relation to their own religious beliefs. while you can believe whatever you want, it doesn't stop people from criticizing you. i don't have to meet someone or personally speak to them if they have already displayed their beliefs on their own blog. they can dispute my claims if i am wrong, but they haven't.
I already have talked about most of this already. and thats what I'm doing right now- disputing your claims. because I took a while to respond DOES NOT mean I 'agree 100%' (they say that in a moment) with what you said. I was working, and didn't have time to bang out this long post until I had the time and energy to sit down and do this. a late response does not equal agreement, it just means I have a life)
Op was just saying not every friendship should be shipped. Friendship is a beautiful thing and you can tell when someone has never experienced it
this post is about that. Just bc op is a Christian doesn't mean every post she makes is abt Christianity. She was making a point that you refuse to see because of your bias against a group of people.
which is absolutely true and lovely <3
(corn) please read the exchange between me and Cardassian. i do not have a bias against christians, but i do have a bias against those who are homophobic and transphobic. when a person uses terms like “gender confusion” and claims that homosexuality and “gender confusion” should still be considered mental illnesses. i’m not claiming this post is directly about being gay or whatever, but there are blogs that would probably not want to reblog posts from someone that holds these beliefs.
also it’s interesting that the op hasn’t written a response to me, so i stand by what i said 100% and i guess that she does too.
so by admitting that you do hold a bias against people who share my beliefs, I would say that you are the one in this situation who falls under the definition of bigot.
and like I just said, a slow response does not equal no response, or even more extreme, agreement. I have work, and lots of responsibilities. bopping onto Tumblr for 5 minutes here and there is different than the several hours of brainpower this post required, not to mention the fact that I wanted to let this one sit in my draft so I could reflect and pray about it, making sure that I was speaking to you in the best possible way.
I would like you to note, since I just read another reblog that you did as well as more comments, which I wont go over here because I've said pretty much all I have to say with this, but what I will say is that I never deleted that link that you used, or blocked you, nor have I ever deleted any of my posts on Christianity, homosexuality, or anything in between. if there is a reason you cannot view the post anymore, it is not because of anything I did.
and as a final note, I think that telling people that they are terrible for calling something out (and yes, you are correct, shipping culture has roots in hetrosexual ideology and should be corrected there as well, I wasnt saying that only gay people do this) isn't going to be constructive or change their mind at all. its just gonna make them either get angry, or slam their self-esteem. if you are willing to have a constructive conversation about this, using facts and evidence and treating one another respectfully, like we are both adults, my inbox is open. but if you'd rather, we can just lay this to rest here. between this and other responses my friends have already given, I have little else to say on this.
