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This the Zutara yall keep raving about ?

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Eloise: The Wrong Sapphic Option?
I want to expand a bit on my original post
1. Political lesbianism, Feminism and Hatred of men
Political lesbianism is a strategy of detaching oneself from the patriarchy/ men inclusive of romantic/sexual relationships but still fulfilling those needs by engaging in relationships with women regardless of said persons attraction to women. As such it quickly separates itself from the lesbian identity as it is based in the disillusionment towards men. In centralising men as the corner stone of lesbianism as opposed to women, it also shifts the concept of identity as the disconnection towards one thing rather than the association to another.
In Bridgerton:
I understand the idea of not wanting to relate lesbianism to hatred of men. But I will make the argument that Eloise does not "hate" men by any capacity. Rather she argues against the power they hold over their woman counter parts at all positions in society. What distinguishes this from hatred is the points that she makes are based in observations of societal dynamics. Her critiques are thereby not arguments against men but arguments against inequality, mens use of institutional power to oppress and womens wantonness to not question rules that hurt them.
Now she does make faces when men try to talk with her. But in most of these cases the men are trying to court her. Whilst yes they are trying to get to know her or woo her, it is coming with the second set of intentions - the possibility of marriage, an institute she is thoroughly against. Notably these men are also figuring out if they want her so they can make a deal for her hand without her input necessary.
If in the event that she is man hating. That hatred exists separately from the her attraction, as established with her relationship to Theo.
Finally, there are nuanced ways to write a character who hates men but does not associate that with their attraction to women. (Really just go on the internet, there are more than enough examples)
2. I still think I'm right :)
This point remains as is. Eloise's relations to Theo sets the precedent that she can experience attraction to men outside of just society's heteronormative expectations of her. Her attraction is not a mistake or misunderstanding as it exists in a context where she 'should not' want a man of lower class. As their relationship does not follow the typical markers of what they are taught is romantic attraction - woman must want a man for financial stability and man should want a woman for their ability to provide an heir and care for children - making their relationship an intentional choice.
This differs from Francesca, who experiences compulsory heterosexuality. She, while following societal conditioning, mistakes her feelings of deep care and love for John as romantic attraction.
My point sufficing in that Eloise cannot be a man-hating lesbian but at best a man-hating sapphic.
3. Masculine hobbies vs political ideology
A big point of contention is that people were happy at the more feminine presenting sibling being lesbian. Originally I made the argument that Eloise was feminine and I still stand by that somewhat. In terms of physicalities we have no indications against her feminine presentation. Her style leans into 'bland but not masculine'.
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Side note - for a better understanding of style and gender, let's examine someone who I think does show semi-masculine presentation - Cressida.
Now now before you start typing, I get it she wears pink and frills, what's masculine about that? Well many things. One, if we look at the fittings of the shoulder area in the men vs the women we see distinct differences. (Forgive me for wrong terminology, I'm a not a fashion expert)
Woman's wear had no structured or broadened shoulders peices and instead going for a softer, curved slope giving the appearance of an elongated/ swan-like neck.
Men clothing had structured shoulder pieces giving them wider shoulders. Additionally sharper angles are utilized.
The women's clothing typically highlights their smaller frame and softer features, with a streamlined bodice as to not give away all their curves.
Men's clothing tends towards the illusion of bulkier physique, especially from the abdomen and above. They also seem to make use of layers and bulkier materials specifically around the neck.
Cressida outfits follow trend more with men, specifically the broader structured shoulders and use of layers. (I am specifically referencing seasons 3 and 4)
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Another reason for calling Eloise masculine are her interests - reading theory and politics. I would argue that Eloise's interests are somewhat feminine or at least not masculine.
A big part of the way politics operated a 'man's' hobby in the past, was through the exclusion of women. It was best put - a boy's club. The idea of politics was seen as not a woman's place to discuss. This makes sense given that women did not have voting power, making any discussions they may have non essential on the influence on actual governance. Additionally, many (not all) discussions had were no more than verbal jousting. Aimed to see your friends understanding of politics and respond quippedly. They operated moreso as a debate club, with parlays meant to show off wittiscism and academic prowess.
With that said, Eloise does not participate in the male hobby of politics as it operates as a social gathering from which she is excluded based on gender.
She can however engage in the hobby of reading political theory, still this is not a masculine endeavor as most of her consumed theory is in the realm of women's liberation (a notably female lead political endeavor)
There is also the idea of political advocacy. As noted in the show there are concerted efforts by the lower class (men and women) to improve conditions currently through radical political rallies which Eloise participated in. But these gatherings operate differently to the 'boys club' mention above. They are not there (even in part) for the joy of banter but to hopefully instigate and excecute structural change through the dissemination of knowledge and public awareness. Discussions are carried out not for verbal jousting but actual understanding of discriminatory systems.
That said, I do think it is wrong to equate politcal advocacy with the interest of political debate. Both involve the apsect of academic exploration. In one version political debate involves the neutral exploration of ideas without seeking to change the existing systems. Political advocacy exists to challenge the system through actions of dissemination of information and lobbying.
Sidenote-
I am aware that due to the illegal, anti-estblishment nature of the rallies, they are considered political activism as well. The reason I do not argue for Eloise's participation is because her rally arc is too short for me to willingly propose her actions as activism. I can however say her advocacy continues once the rally arc is over. At least through her conversations with Cressida in regards to feminist theory.
There is an point to be had about Eloise's disinterest in traditionally feminine hobbies of her time - embroidery, instrument playing, party hosting, etc. The reasoning we are given is that she hates that these hobbies are expectations. Most of what I just listed are not just interests are woman of the time can have. They are actual skills they are taught to draw a man's interest.
I think she pushed so hard against building herself for a man, that the possibility of understanding and enjoying 'acceptable' hobbies was not considered. She is expected to treat the expectations of her as her natural interests.
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For reference think of how alot of women pushed back against liking the colour pink for so long only to discover that they liked it when they got older.
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If I had to suggest another reason I would say these interest simply don't align with the things she likes to do. Alot of the hobbies involve a large group of people and excessive amounts of 'acceptable' talk. Eloise has shown active distaste for these things. Often times she can overcome her dislike of socializing if she can speak freely. But given that most of the women in the ton are not against the systems of oppression facing them, I can see her getting bored of the interactions/events very quickly and very often - as indicated when her and hyacinth got in a fight.
However, as more people have spoken out about Fran as the Lesbian sibling, I am starting to understand what people mean by the more 'feminine' sister.
My initial thoughts considered the masculine nature of Eloises physical presentation and hobbies. Upon reconsideration I realize I failed to account for personality.
Eloise's personality is less traditionally feminine. She doesn't fall in the line of the soft spoken, quiet, kind wife who seeks to fulfil her role in society, as Fran does. Instead she presents a more headstrong personality, as someone who is witty, argumentative with an off-putting tendency to question expectations.
Ultimately, I do not find any of Eloises current interests to be masculine but she does present disinterest in traditionally feminine hobbies. The best argument I have seen against Eloise's femininity is her personality and veiws on the world around them. In comparison with Francesca, Fran does seem to enjoy accpetable feminine hobbies specifically paino playing and reading. And has the more ideal personality for a woman of the time.
Me watching most of the incoming Eloise "Fans" (homophobic cunts in disguise) saying Eloise season should be next
They just want a straight romance (Philoise). So they're willing to take a rushed half assed season so long as they dont have to see a sapphic love story.
I'm saying this as someone who doesn't want philoise but accepts that it will probably be happening. If you all care so much about the philoise love story then you would want it to be set up properly.
I'm looking at all these excuses of
'oh they're taking away Eloise's season from us. ' there was NO guarantee that the next one was hers
'Claudia will be too old.' To the people saying this-Fuck You fuck you and FUCK YOU. Her book story is about a spinster finding love. Would it not be better for her to be older? Would that not highlight that aspect? Or does the concept of aging disturb you?
'They'll make Eloise have the same repeating character arc in season 5. ' You know what I actually agree with that. But unlike those people I see it as a flaw with the writers not knowing how to write her or not really knowing what to do with her. I also understand that that will not be fixed by them making it her season. They'll just write her shittily again, but now she'll be the main character.
'Franscesca needs time to grieve.' How long do you want her to grieve? A year? Two years? Forever? They can do times skips you know. They can do montages of her grieving process that spans a long period of time. Also you would be incredibly surprised at how many people fall in love again while grieving especially if that person is close with them. Or relates to that pain. There is a way for them to do it.
Though I will say whether you like how they do it or not will depend on the individual.
βfandom etiquetteβ people when you tell them that the racism and misogyny that is intertwined in their fandom practices/communities/the media they enjoy should be critically examined and treated like a genuine issue that reinforces systemic biases and oppression rather than ignored to preserve their perception that they donβt have to take responsibility for their part in perpetuating racism + misogyny
# our creloise captain

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Marina is so beautiful and brilliant and clever and ruthless, she deserves so much better than getting fridged so that Eloise can marry the human embodiment of beige. She could take down a kingdom if she put her mind to it. The writers would be idiots to waste her.
Simone Ashley as Kate Bridgerton
Bridgerton S4.E6 β The Passing Winter
βChoice feminism is progressive actuallyβ headed to YOUR dash for the next 2 years
I rebuke such demons
It has to be said that Shonda opened the worst can of worms ever by 1) making Marina more than a plot device and 2) casting a woman of color to be her
Marina was introduced to show the actual risk women had to their reputation (not that she faced actual consequences, safely married to a man who treats her kindly). But we didnβt need her to be Marina Crane. She couldβve been a Featherington Cousin to continue showing the tackiness and different vibes of the Featherington house vs. the Bridgertons. While still fulfilling the βwoman riskβ plot line
She couldβve had her own spicy love story with a random man and resulted in a pregnancy. She couldβve had a lot of plot relevance that didnβt put her directly in the crosshairs of not 1, but 2 white pairings.
Her existence as a black woman in the ton manipulating a sweet white boy, and being a proud, selfish character that gets brought down by a sweet white girl feels tone deaf - especially because the writing makes it clear that Marina was in the way of true love.
Now she is the cold wife to a sweet white boy again. She treats him distantly, uninterested in him. She will be miserable in her relationship and will eventually die so that another white woman can take her place.
Much of Phillipβs arc in the book also revolves around feeling unloved and disgusting. Marina is the catalyst for this. The show isnβt shying away from the idea that she isnβt nice to him.
They shouldnβt have made her a character. The actress did beautifully but clearly the show impacted her mental health because the fandom is nasty. Marina Crane shouldβve been a side cousin to the Bridgertons as in the books. The manipulative cut throat girl in a bad position in season 1 couldβve been removed or just stayed a Featherington.
It's especially bad if they do end up separating Marina from her kid for the philiose storyline.
They should have thought through the fact that they'll have a black woman separated from her children (possibly dying) for a white woman to replace her.
Even worse, is that her black (I know their probably gonna be very very Very light skin given how they casted Kathony's baby) kids will play a major part in promoting a romance between the white couple neither of whom is their parents.
100% agreed, an excellent point to add. It just feels like they didnβt think the next several seasons of the show through when they cast and created Marina for the show.
It especially will feel odd since Book Eloise loves children, has a way with them, and feels comfortable around them, while Show El doesnβt like babies or toddlers at all. At least in the book it was clear that the children crave connection. In the show theyβre just going to be capping for their motherβs white woman replacement who they will have no logical reason at all to like??
I heard that the original showrunner was going to bring theo back. So it's possible they weren't going with the philoise plot line.
Still, if they go through with this in any capacity, people aren't going to like it and will have understandable problems with it.
Then again, maybe the people who still hate Marina will enjoy it. But everyone else will likely see the problems.
Is this a safe space for for anti Penelope takes? Because I have thoughts about the way Bridgerton treats her in season four like there were no consequences to her actions.
Sure. I guess they got close with the time she outed that mistress and said woman literally begged her to retract her statement because her reputation was ruined but... they never quite got there because they are not interested in any real consequences for that character, or character growth at least. They were also happy to make Penelope a stooge for the queen as she essentially writes for state-run TMZ so maybe that was a consequence lol
I don't think consequences for Penelope were ever going to happen. Since LW is beloved by fans and she had her season, so now she must live her happily ever after. Giving consequences would directly contradict how the couples stories are supposed to end.
That said, it could have been a bit self reflective, she could have seen people who's reputation she already ruined in the past and actually reconsider why she wrote those things in the first place. Was it really because she was a wallflower no one noticed and this was her chance to be heard. Or was it because she liked the power it brought her, because she liked having that control over the ton. The acknowledgment that not every article was simply for spreading the gossip. But that her words were sometimes spiteful.
Then after seeing the effect her words had. She starts to be more considerate in her gossip column with less scathing reviews towards women. The ton does not like that the column is no longer "entertaining".
This eventually leads to her abandoning it/LW once and for all, citing the harm to women that the ton/her column thrives on as the main reason. She writes a self reflective piece on her time as LW speaking on the good (gave a wallflower a voice) and the bad (harms women mainly). The ending showcases a thankfulness she has to LW and prompts the readers to question why they laugh at the suffering of women. Then, they could have had an open ending where a new LW introduces herself with a distinctly different style from penelope (without any prior suggestion from Penelope about a new LW), noting that unlike penelope she isn't soft hearted and is fully prepared to write the truth no matter what.

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It has to be said that Shonda opened the worst can of worms ever by 1) making Marina more than a plot device and 2) casting a woman of color to be her
Marina was introduced to show the actual risk women had to their reputation (not that she faced actual consequences, safely married to a man who treats her kindly). But we didnβt need her to be Marina Crane. She couldβve been a Featherington Cousin to continue showing the tackiness and different vibes of the Featherington house vs. the Bridgertons. While still fulfilling the βwoman riskβ plot line
She couldβve had her own spicy love story with a random man and resulted in a pregnancy. She couldβve had a lot of plot relevance that didnβt put her directly in the crosshairs of not 1, but 2 white pairings.
Her existence as a black woman in the ton manipulating a sweet white boy, and being a proud, selfish character that gets brought down by a sweet white girl feels tone deaf - especially because the writing makes it clear that Marina was in the way of true love.
Now she is the cold wife to a sweet white boy again. She treats him distantly, uninterested in him. She will be miserable in her relationship and will eventually die so that another white woman can take her place.
Much of Phillipβs arc in the book also revolves around feeling unloved and disgusting. Marina is the catalyst for this. The show isnβt shying away from the idea that she isnβt nice to him.
They shouldnβt have made her a character. The actress did beautifully but clearly the show impacted her mental health because the fandom is nasty. Marina Crane shouldβve been a side cousin to the Bridgertons as in the books. The manipulative cut throat girl in a bad position in season 1 couldβve been removed or just stayed a Featherington.
It's especially bad if they do end up separating Marina from her kid for the philiose storyline.
They should have thought through the fact that they'll have a black woman separated from her children (possibly dying) for a white woman to replace her.
Even worse, is that her black (I know their probably gonna be very very Very light skin given how they casted Kathony's baby) kids will play a major part in promoting a romance between the white couple neither of whom is their parents.
During the discourse around bridgerton one thing has confused me for a while-> Why were people saying Eloise shouldn't be the one in a wlw relationship? Like I get some of the critiques to a degree.
- Just because she's feminist doesn't automatically make her gay. Trying to relate the two would fall into the very stupid political lesbian bullshit.
- Fran being viewed as the more feminine sibling veers from the idea that lesbians are not feminine.
- Part of being lesbian isn't hating men. In fact men have nothing to do with the attraction to women
Now here is where I question it:
- Alot of queer women felt connected to Eloise. Alot of them also thought she was going to be/wanted her to be queer. It wasn't related to her man hating nature but moreso her feeling of otherness from society. The fact that she doesn't fit in relates well with a period piece queer story.
- I don't think Eloise would be a Lesbian stereotype even if she does get in a wlw relationship, because Eloise would not be Lesbian. Her relationship with Theo establishes an attraction to men. If she gets with a woman, she would probably be is bisexual. (Editing Correction: I meant bi, pan, or asexual)
- Eloise isn't masculine presenting. Yes her interests towards education and political discourse may be more 'masculine'. But her physical presentation is not masculine at all. Yh she doesn't like to dress up but she still clearly dresses like femininely [for the timeperiod]. If any woman in that show is more masculine presenting it's Cressida [given the color choices and general non conformity in her outfits]
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Now, with all that said I'm not saying she should have gotten the lesbian-sapphic story. It being Frans story was a surprising but welcome choice. My thoughts here relate to the discussions around the why or why not of Eloise being in a sapphic relationship.
Progressive...Marriage? There is absolutely NOTHING progressive about getting married. On the contrary, it's literally the most heteronormative thing in the world. just because it doesn't follow the usual formula of the show, doesn't make it revolutionary. Eloise, regardless of when she marries, will STILL marry and that's the least progressive thing a "progressive person" can do.
They're just throwing the word progressive like a buzz word. i need them to shut the fuck up and stop acting as if they're not going to completely butcher eloise's character.
Yh alot of ppl are forgetting that Eloise is being prickly with Hyacinth because she's being forced to stick to her sister's side for lessons she already completed years ago.
For anyone confused, imagine your mother forces you, an adult,to attend your 14 year old sister's etiquette classes. You cannot say no and you cannot leave under your sisters side under any circumstances. Also you are now in charge of accompanying her everywhere.
She also upset because of why Violet is forcing her. She declared she wanted to be a spinster. and Violet is punishing her for it in a very insulting way. She is treating Eloise as a child, indirectly suggesting that Eloise should act more mature like Hyacinth, all the while refusing to have any conversation with her daughter.
Let's be honest here, being compared to your siblings sucks. Being seen as less competent than your younger sibling especially sucks. And this kind of comparison would cause problems between most siblings at any age
For example: You, a child free woman, visit your hometown for a while till your sister gives birth. And the whole time you're there, your mother is also bringing up how nice it would be for you to have a baby (you've explained you're childfree) and saying you'll eventually want one cause it's only natural. She keeps forcing you to help your sister with everything (Setting up yhe crib, buying clothes, picking out a stroller, buying baby supplies). It's easy to see how resentment builds
I agree Eloises resentment is misplaced. She shouldn't take it out on Hyacinth. But lets be real, its not like she can talk to the cause of the problem, aka Violet too-busy-getting-dicked-down-to-be-a-parentvBridgerton.
And I don't blame Hyacinth for being angry about it. You could say she should be able to recognize Eloise is being mistreated by their mother, but giving grace to the fact that she is young with no other sisters at home I also think its a bit of desperation.
Overall it's a shitty situation and Eloise is reacting in anger because once again her voice/choices is being taken away by someone
ELOISE THE WHITE FEMINIST?????
l wish to discuss my interpretation of white feminism within bridgerton. Both the canon and fans perspectives
Disclaimer: I don't think feminism actually exists in bridgerton as this was prior to the feminist movements. I believe this was called the proto feminist era. Because of this I will not be identifying Eloise herself as feminist or any subcategory of feminist. I will only discuss if her actions fall into the category of modern white feminism.
Note however that historically feminism has yet not been created and racism has been solved in-universe. I may not apply these facts to this particular analysis.
In-universe Bridgerton Racism-
I think about big part of how the audience views bridgerton is that they is fail to come to terms with the idea that in-universe race relations in Bridgerton don't operate the same as actual history. With the fantastical "love cured racism" narrative, the show effectively does erase common race relation terminology including 'White privilege, White woman tears, white feminism' from the world of Bridgerton.
(Sidenote. I will NOT be arguing the whole love cured racism line. I understand that in Queen Charlotte it their marriage was a contractual agreement and that she did face racism there. HOWEVER, as the conversation between Lady Danbury and Simon in season 1 indicated, the racism at that time no longer exists because of love. And POC are now able to hold nad maintain positions of power equivalent to their white counter parts. All discussion I will be having in this post will exclude the Queen Charlotte the spinoff and focus only on the show itself)
Canon vs Audience Interpreted Race Relations-
Now as the audience viewing the show, these terms are very much real, and the situations they seek to describe in our world are real.
Creator and writer biases can also exist. And because of these biases the character may be put into situations that, under real world circumstances, would constitute the application of those terms. The showrunners however, have failed to create an world in which they can reasonably be applied.
For example: Daphne (white woman) raping Simon (black man), then being upset about it and making him apologize would likely be an example of WW tears being weaponized against a POC. However, the situation they have placed the characters in is one in which Simon (man) is at odds with daphne (woman).
The audience can recognize the characters race as factor in their respective portrayals by the creator. But to keep up the inclusive romantic elements, the characters cannot. Or at least they must view racism as problem of the past with no bearings on their current situations.
The intersectionality that would have made for a very interesting discussion of what white privilege a WW would have over a BM (even including their recently aquired positions of power in bridgerton) is erased by the colorblind, racism-free romance they have been placed in.
That isn't to say that discussions about portrayals of race in bridgerton can't/shouldn't be had. I simply believe these discussions should take the in-universe context of Bridgerton. And understand while certain characters action may read as white privilege in real world context, that's not what they are in bridgerton.
Any application of white privilege may be better discussed as writer bias, similar to talks of colorism in Bridgerton. Not to be discussed as if the characters partake in it directly, but how racial prejudice can makes its way into the writing and the way fans view of characters.
Example: Marina partakes in the same passionate premarital intimacy with a loved one, as Penelope does. But one of them is demonized by the fans as a slut, and is not allowed their happy ending with their true love, by the writers.
White feminism
My understanding of white feminism is that it is a particular feminist theory and practice centering needs, experiences of white, cisgender women whilst disregarding the intersectional struggles (think racism, LGBT+ identities, class struggles).
Those who practice it seek to benefit for mall forms of oppression, by attempting to rework those frameworks for themselves. In turn, they surpress women's voices, who are further marginalized under other surpressive structures. They do so not only to center their own experiences, but to benefit from others subjugation, which systemic structures of whiteness and patriarchy were built on.
The Non-feminists of Bridgerton-
This time period is labelled as the proto feminist stages, the 'feminists' in this stage are having discussions and questioning the system that they live under. Not making movements to change it.
Therefore, I don't think Eloise is feminist (as no one is in the show). I believe she is a young woman craving a life that is distinctly not standard and NOT PERMITTED TO HER.
Still I will try to analyze the characters actions through a feminist lens. Analysis will be done under 3 categories:
1. Individualism
2. Class
3. Race
1. INDIVIDUALISM
White feminist individualism emphasizes self-reliance and the individual's advancement through structural opression. Due to this focus on personal effort over collective action, it considers systems of oppression as nothing more than hurdles that any person can overcome through hardwork. This is because often times, white feminists seek to benefit from the oppression that, if ignoring gender inequalities, will place them at the top of the hierarchy equal to cis white men. Failure to acknowledge institutional issues, encourages white feminists to partake in oppressive structures, including patriarchy, rather than destroy them. Thus labeling an individuals inability to face systemic issues on their own inaction/ laziness.
Eloise seems to have a general understanding that the system of patriarchy as one which affects all women.
Re: "Can you imagine all the time there would be if we didn't have to always think about marriage. The time we would have to exchange ideas or do anything that isn't entirely for the prupose of ensnaring a husband"
What I will say is she does seem to focus on her own experiences and not always acknowledge the experiences of others under the system.
Re: How marrying might not be the best option for Cressida who is in a abusive situation, under full control of her father and had no money to back her up. Eloise doesn't notice that her family is willing to care for her until a good partner comes along , whereas Cressida's family will use her inability to find a partner to abuse her more.
We dont have much to suggest that she acknowledges the class aspect of women's rights. As again her time with with the working class was limited. In addition the only feminist readings she gained from that time ,which we know of, is Mary Wollstonecraft (1759β1797). She, whilst of lower class than Eloise (middle class specifically), was still know to have some classist ideas in her work.
Though it should be acknowledged that the most class conscious prot feminist philosophers were not alive during the time frame bridgerton is set in (Regency Era: 1811 to 1820) .
The few notable exceptions of earliest writers who Eloise could have read from were Flora Tristan (1803β1844) and Harriet Taylor Mill (1807β1858). [The time frame makes it a bit iffy tho]
Her actively venturing out to seek audience with the said working class could suggest there were class-based feminist discussions being had. At the very least it does recognize her interest in class issues, without confirmation of distinctly class consciousness feminist philosophy.
2. CLASS
First, to talk about class we must talk about money.
The flow of money in bridgerton through lineage and marriage seems to take this structure. Ladies with male relatives of higher familial rank have their money controlled by those male relatives prior to marriage. They will be given a little bit of spending money for personal use(not too sure about how much it is.). The main money belonging to any woman of the ton is her dowery. It is distinctly the daughters inheritance which is transferred to her husband's family/her upon marriage. At this point it gets a bit more complex as to what the dowery is meant to be spent on, or if the women have full control over their dowery. Other ways of gaining money would be through death of the main patriarch, provided there were no male heirs/relatives to take over. Spinsters were not allowed access to dowery. If remaining unmarried a spinster will be taken care of financially by the most appropriate male relative.
[Also I will NOT be referring to the rest of the ton as though they are of a different class to the bridgertons simply because they have less money. They are of the same class. All members of the ton benefit from the ton whether you like that or not.]
Being of the ton presents Eloises with privileges those of lower class do not have. To analyze this power from a feminist lens we must ask if she uses that power of to control/demean/oppress women of lower class for her own benefit. We must also ask if she chooses to listen the to perspectives and plights of the working class. And how/if she begins to apply those ideas or spread them (of course under consideration of the social confines she is stuck in).
Whilst her interactions with the lower class are limited. We do see her in Season 3 taking action to attend radical political rallies of her own accord. At the very beginning, Eloise is excited to attend the meetings. Being surrounded be analyticals pushing for structural change and evaluating the system they exist in is exciting for her. We also see that she isn't just attending from the thrill. But because she actually wants to hear other opinions. This is highlighted by her wanting to discuss the literature presented with Theo and trusting his reading suggestions as a man of the lower class.
However, its is clear these words do not immediately translate into self reevaluation on class. After being accused of being LW she returns to theo to find out he has almost lost his job because of their interactions. Her actions and privilege are quickly called out by Theo. After which we see her understand the power structures that divide them as she analyzes her position of power, over the lower class. Leading to her 'breaking up' with Theo knowing if word gets out, he will be punished much more severely than her.
Re: " I do not normally care what other people think, but yes, I care about you. And if we continue on like this. I could not live with myself if you are the one who has to face the consequences."
It can be said that her actions were partially influenced by her crush on Theo. But I feel that would be a dishonest representation of her willingness to continue the intellectual consumption of radical literature.
Also, we are aware that she spoke to Cressida about some of these things. Even inspiring her to read a feminist philosopher Theo had introduced her to. So I do think she tried somewhat to spread the philosophies she discovered whilst among the working class.
Of course, after this, any attendance to revolutionary parties was prohibited because of of the whole LW situation. And in S4 Eloise is being fully monitored most of the time. Either directly her mother or by having to accompany her sister. We don't get to see much of her interactions with the working class much outside of this despite the focus on working class people in S4. Through those limited interactions we fail to see anything that would suggest she is against the revolution of working class or sees them as lesser than her. We do see that she seems to greatly respect Sophie opinion on the book, but that could also be due to the surprise that Sophie read it.
3. RACE
Let us analyze characters actions through a modern lens of race and feminism and understand why a characters actions would be deemed white feminism, if race were a present social construct in Bridgerton.
Questions:
- Does she directly harm any poc physically or mentally?
- Does she try to remove power from any POC?
- Does she utilize her identity as a WW under patriarchy to indirectly harm poc?
- Does she center her experiences over those of POC?
In my knowledge Eloise does not go out of her way to harm any POC in the story. This is also a result of the ton still being majority white. And her not being able to explore much outside of it.
Her interactions with the POC characters, while limited, do not distinguish any hostility. In fact one of the main WOC we see Eloise interact with is Kate. In this conversation she seeks the verbal reassurance that the life of a spinster (a life eloise herself seeks) is not miserable as ppl make it out to be. At first glance in may come across as Eloise using WOC to do the emotional work of satisfying her feelings. But what preceeds and follows that snippet disregards that interpretation. Initially Eloise seeks Kate out because Kate appears content with the life of a spinster. She genuinely admires Kate for living life this way. Eloise as a young woman then asks for knowledge on what her future may look like. Kate answers honestly, and says it is not glamorous. Eloise in turn doesn't get angry at or insult Kate for not appeasing her dreams, or say her experiences are untrue. She takes what Kate's says solemly and goes on her own to deal with these emotions.
Next her interactions with Sophie who is the WOC she speaks to most outside of Kate. In S4 she appears to be both intrigued by how well read Sophie is and very interested in her opinion of the book being discussed. Again interactions are limited but no untoward statements or actions are made.
When Sophie is transferred to being Eloise's lady's maid she seems genuinely happy. Likely due to her respect for Sophie's intellect.
After the reveal of Sophie's familial rights, she stops being a maid for the Bridgertons. In their first interaction after the change Eloise is not upset at having her maid now become someone of equal status to her in the household. She welcomes her with a hug, suggesting some level of closeness was formed during their time together.
Finally we do not see Eloise use her identity is a fragile WW in need of protection to villainize any POC as aggressive or intent on causing her harm. She does also not use her "inherent innocence" as a WW to direct the violence of any WM to the POC around her.
CONCLUSION
I don't think Eloise displays any of the hallmarks of white feminism. The closest we get is her self-centered nature over-lapping slightly with individualism. Also her initial lack of understanding on class issues is, in my opinion, counterbalanced by the fact that she voluntarily went to political rallies to gain a better understanding of societal problems (which is exactly what happened). Finally, no racist narratives were apparent to me in my watching.

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Idk why im getting a bunch of creature design on my fyp. But I'm fucking loving it.
Keep em coming.
I'm rewatching the "Embriodery" scene that everyone uses to complain about Eloise being anti woman. And I must say i am very confused at the moment.
Because everyone made it seem like Eloise was being a bitch for asking about everyone's favourite stitch and then getting mad and changing the conversation because they spoke about embroidery.
And now that im watching it. That doesn't seem to be the case.
I'll write the transcription here for clarification.
Eloise: You genuinely enjoy Embriodery?
Girl 1: of course I do. There's simply so much one can do with it.
Eloise: For example?
Girl 1: proceeds to list a series of stitches
Girl 2: proceeds to list a series of stitches
Girl 3: Do you not have favourite miss Eloise?
Eloise: Yes the ..uh...shift stitch. As in the one that shifts this conversation perhaps to something besides embriodery
Now watching the scene I can say Eloise was a bit snarky on her side. Not too much, enough to notice if you pay attention.
However, the girls proceeded to give the most boring answer imaginable to that question.
I say this as someone who loves yarn work. I thought they were going to say something interesting. Or at least what they would use the stitches to make.
If someone asked me what I could do with crochet. I would probably tell them the projects I could make. Plushies, blankets, clothes. I may even go into the stitching like how I use puff stitches to make my sushi cat.
But that. Who lists stitches. In an attempt to speak on what you can make with embroidery.
Granted, I don't believe Eloise asked the question in good faith. She didn't believe there was much you could do with embriodery or that someone could enjoy it. But damn, I don't even blame her for that last line. If I was talking to them I would want the shift stitch too.