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let's talk about Bridgerton tea, my ask is open
trying on a metaphor
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@torchwood-99

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Sometimes I like to think about the fact Stratt has no idea that Grace survived on Erid. All she knows from the videos is he's going to save the Eridians, but she knows the food won't last, and she doesn't know (just like Grace at the time) that they'll eventually synthesise food he can eat.
As far as she knows, he got to Erid and died shortly after.
So to see MANY years later as she's a very old woman on her death bed, a lone newly built beetle arrive, made of the same xenonite her Grace figurine is made of that has sat on her bedside table ever since it arrived in the original beetles. To see a video file inside of Grace, scarred, stick thin, hunched through the heavy gravity, missing teeth from his scurvy...and with the biggest, happiest grin on his face as he tells her about his life on Erid.
She thought she'd found peace before when she watched those original video files, Grace smiling that she was right, and that all her emotional sacrifice to get the job done to get him out there was worth it because the Earth was saved...yeah, no. It was peace now. That toothy, excitable grin, that worn and threadbare fox cardigan, those stupid glasses still hanging off his face...alive.
Out there, living his best life, and alive.
Now she could die at peace.
Spin the wheel. That's who's trying to kill you.
Spin the wheel again. Thatâs whoâs trying to protect you.
(If you have zero idea about a name you got, spin until you see someone you recognize.)
Are you safe?
Absolutely not. I'm dead. 100% dead.
I might stay alive, but it'll be a really close thing.
I'll take some hits, for certain, but I should be okay in the end.
A few attacks might get through, but nothing concerning.
The attacker might be able to get in one lucky hit. If that.
I am the opposite of worried. I'm 100% safe.
âŚLook. I've tried picturing this. But I honestly don't know how to answer.
(I've run this poll twice before, expanding it significantly for the second run. With about a year passed since that second run, I thought it was time to add another couple hundred names to the list and have another go.)
do you ever think in the back of their minds elain and feyre kinda pathologize nesta as this abnormal low empathy unfeeling person because some of their earliest memories of her are her not mourning their dearly beloved Grandmamma
I'm not a subject matter expert, but where is Nesta verbally abusive?
Yes, she called Feyre stinky and a half-wild beast, but that's tame compared to how siblings talk to each other, especially those living in dysfunctional families. My brother and I have said far worse to each other than that, and we get along far better than Nesta and Feyre. If that's verbal abuse, then all siblings are abusers.
And yes, Nesta called Cassian a low-born bastard two times in the Wings and Embers bonus chapter, but Cassian has called himself a low-born bastard far more often than Nesta has. Cassian calls other people a bastard all the time, but it's not verbal abuse when he does it? Amren has called Cassian far worse things than Nesta has.
Cassian, Amren, and Grandmamma Archeron have said far worse things to Nesta than she's said to anyone else. They are the verbal abusers of the series, not Nesta. How do Cassian and Amren deserve love, kindness, and respect despite being abusers, but Nesta doesn't?
Haven't you heard? In this fandom, Nesta's actions are her own. But the IC's actions are either on Amarantha, Tamlin, Hybern or Nesta. Sometimes Eris. Oh, and Feyre's actions (that are just as bad as Nesta's by her own admission) are also on Nesta.
You see, the IC can abuse whoever they want, but anybody so much as glances at them in a sorta weird face, then they 'just don't get it', and if they even mildly criticise the IC, enforce personal boundaries, ask questions or offer ideas that don't align entirely with their ideology, in any capacity, they're abusive monsters who destroy everything they touch, live to spread misery and want to make the world a worse place đ

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Nestaâs grandmother: âWorthless , clumsy girl. You're a waste of my time.â- Acosf page 276
Amren: âYou have become a pathetic waste of lifeâ- Acosf page 339
Nesta who only felt relief when her abusive grandmother died and being free of her training. Years later having to deal with another older woman trying to train her and constantly verbally degrading her.
Also thereâs the fact that Nesta repeatedly refers to herself as a âwasteâ throughout Acosf.
People have the nerve to act like Lucien is some random side character / throwaway love interest when he is literally the OG BOY ?!?
Like⌠Lucien had a personality and backstory before half the cast entered the chat. Before RHYS even made his first appearance on page.
Put some respect on his name.
what really gets me is that the IC literally state they're using Elain to manipulate Nesta into doing what they want her to do and then feyre patronizes Nesta and says they had no choice and then ELAIN takes her frustration out on NESTA like Nesta isn't the victim of the whole situation??? like what
Pendant
c. 1860
Enamelled gold, set with almandine garnet
England
Victoria and Albert Museum
Not to be all "the children have forgotten the sacred texts!" but I just saw someone refer to a ship between two people who are good friends in canon as a crackship.
Hon. No. Crackship doesn't just mean "not canon". It's difficult to imagine two people who spend significant canon time together as a crackship. Crackship is when you write Galactus getting fucked by Tony the Tiger.
Gotta say, my absolute favourite notes on this so far have been the number of people congratulating Tony on his rebound from the Grinch.

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ladies⌠has anyone ever told you itâs okay to be feminine 𩷠iâm sure no one has ever ever ever reinforced this deeply held secret, thatâs itâs okay for you to be feminine. 𩷠i know the world totally tries to tell you that you have to be manly and masculine and grow your body hair and eat as much as you want and get strong and stand up for yourself and make waves and take up space and show your bare face and show your anger. but itâs okay to do the exact opposite actually. 𩷠itâs okay to shrink yourself down to the exact same mold every other woman is expected to conform to. 𩷠did you know that itâs okay to be feminine. 𩷠did you know itâs okay to be feminine. 𩷠did you know itâs okay to be feminine. 𩷠has anyone ever told you itâs okay to be feminine. 𩷠will you be feminine. 𩷠will you be feminine. 𩷠will you be feminine. 𩷠will you just be feminine already. đЎđЎđЎ
âEverything in her life, from the moment she was born, had been controlled by other people. Things happened to her; anytime she tried to exert control, sheâd been thwarted at every turnâand she hated that even more than the King of Hybern.â
so sjm is gonna write this paragraph. and then have nesta end up in an environment where her life is under constant control. end up around people who do nothing but control her. end up with a man who feels more than comfortable controlling her.
she doesnât have a job. she doesnât get paid. sjm never gave her financial independence even though i (personally) believe itâs one of the MOST important things nesta needed in her life. sheâs been controlled through finances her entire life. sheâs depended on others for finances her entire life. youâre telling me sheâs just okay with depending on c*ssian for it now? i just donât understand how silver flames was a book dedicated to healing and nesta finding herself. i really donât.
she canât even leave her house easily? she needs to either ask someone to get her out or TAKE 10,000 STEPS! how does nesta not despise living there. how does she not despise having her weapons taken from her and controlled by others. how does she not despise waking up every morning to train just because c*ssian told her to! when she was literally threatened into it!
how are you supposed to take nestaâs âhealing arcâ seriously when sheâs ended up in a position that old her wouldâve despised. every time i reread this nightmare i find more quotes that make no sense even being in the book when you know how it ends and it makes me just as mad as i was when this book was released.
The 10,000 stairs was symbolic though. When the intervention happens, Nesta is in a bad placeâsheâs depressed, alcoholic, and pushing away all of her friends and family. She loses control of her life because sheâs unable to provide for herself, financially or emotionally. Feyre and Elain gave her space to process and heal emotionally, but they realized that she didnât need spaceâNesta had always pushed others away and locked them out, with disastrous results. Hereâs my analysis of Nestaâs development in Silver Flame that no one asked forâŚ
Feyre says earlier in the series that Nesta seems uncaring but she thinks itâs a mask to hide the fact that Nesta cares more deeply than most. SF is where we see that idea play out. When Feyre confronts her about her behavior earlier in the series, Nesta points out that thereâs no reason for her to change because sheâs always been able to manipulate others into doing what she needs them to do.
Thereâs some romantic tension between Nesta and Cassian from the moment they meet, but Nesta doesnât know how to handle genuinely liking someone. She was raised by her mother to look at relationships as a business transaction, and she was SA in the human world when she attempted to marry for safety. After sheâs in Velaris, she starts taking people home for casual sexâbecause sheâs terrified. Sheâs terrified of being assaulted, sheâs terrified of falling in love and finding pleasure, sheâs terrified of changing. Her random hookups are a coping mechanism for her unresolved romantic trauma. If she chooses her partners and throws them away, it means she has power over them. It also helps her feel less terrified of intimacyâwhich she craves, given her favorite genre for reading. Her âhealing arcâ with Cassian is about Nesta allowing herself to choose her partner. Her mother raised her to make an advantageous political match, so sheâs been brainwashed not to fall in love. We know that she truly took this duty to heart because she was prepared to marry an abusive human in ACOTAR for a little protection. Nesta has the opportunity to carry out her warped views of marriage with Eris, but she chooses Cassian for herself. Thereâs no moment where the mating bond âsnapsâ in place like it did for other characters. It doesnât happen until Nesta permits it to happen. She doesnât lose her autonomy, she gains the power to choose. The fact that she ends up choosing the person she was fated to be with is poetic, confirming for Nesta that she made the right choice.
In ACOTAR, Nesta is introduced by demanding that Feyre spend some of the money from her hunt to buy her new boots. Elain also asks for a new cloak. At that time, itâs supposed to make them seem selfish. When Feyre confronts her about it later in the series, Nesta says that she knew Feyre could always go hunting again and find more money. She never admits or considers that she was valuing herself and her needs over the life of her youngest sister. Feyre is literally risking her life to go hunting, and Nesta admits that she expected Feyre to do it constantly to keep the family fed and clothed. She was very bitter when their father stopped providing for themâso bitter that she was willing to let the whole family starve to prove a point about his faults. Her gambling at the beginning of SF is a continuation of that flawed line of thought. Thatâs why Feyre breaks down and criesâit has nothing to do with the actual money (and we know from FS that Feyre is still anxious about spending, even though she and Rhys are very wealthy). Feyre sees the bar tab as proof that Nesta still isnât able to see how her actions effect othersâor clearly doesnât care.
Sheâs still struggling with that mentality at the beginning of SF. Nesta is very hurt by their fatherâs deathâbecause the moment that he returned to help them in their war again Hybern, it proved that heâd finally done what she wanted him to do all along. Heâd gone out of his way to protect his daughtersâŚand it got him killed. Thatâs why sheâs so traumatized by the fire crackling. Sheâs not directly responsible for his actions, of course, but she feels responsible because she wanted him to step up for so long. Nestaâs expectations of others have always been too high. She knows Feyre will keep risking her life for their family because itâs what Nesta would have done (theyâre âtwo sides of the same coin,â and thatâs why Nesta goes after Feyre when Tamlin takes her to Prythian). She expects the priestesses to sign up for training because she knows Cassian can help them recover some of their strength. Thatâs the moment that she realizes sheâs expecting too much of othersâshe becomes aware that the priestesses donât trust Cassian like she does, so she stages the demonstration. Itâs a personal breakthrough on so many levels, because she realizes that she has to help people reach the potential she expects of them. Thatâs something she never did for their father. What if Nesta, Elain, and Feyre had all come together to protect their father when thugs broke his knees? One child crying wasnât going to do anything, but potentially three? And especially when Nestaâs death point even rattled the King of Hybern⌠she has always had the capacity to help others, but sheâs chosen not to. Her mother raised her to remain aloof. Cassian continually reaching out to her helped her to make the important realization that sheâs able to intervene and improve things for other people. He becomes an example of the positive effect that intervention can have, as Nesta sees herself growing and recognizes that he might be able to help some of the priestesses too.
The intervention of placing her in the House and ordering it not to provide her with wine is exactly what it sounds likeâŚan intervention. Anyone struggling with unresolved trauma or depression knows how tempting it is to reach for some substances that will take your mind off things for a while. Nestaâs drinking reaches a new level in SF, as her apartment reeks and she doesnât remember details about the person she just hooked up with. Cassian, Feyre, and Amren see that she is self-destructing. Amren tries some tough love and tells Nesta off, withholding her friendship, which has a profound impact on Nesta but doesnât spur her into changing. When she hits some low points in the House, her mind turns to drinking. Being unable to get down the stairs is a symbol of her depressionâsheâs unable to literally get herself out of the house. Ultimately this issue is resolved when Nesta invites her friends over for a sleepover. Instead of trying to leave and get some wine, she has fun with her friends and makes homing beacon bracelets. AND, the one time that she does get herself out of the house, she immediately runs to her sister and emotionally wounds her. Nesta realizes then that sheâs gone too far, and she runs back to the House. Itâs all metaphorical for her social life. Alone, sheâs self-destructive and causes pain to the people around her. With friends, sheâs able to find fulfillment and doesnât need alcohol to do it.
Her loss of autonomy when she went into the cauldron explains the whole Valkyrie storyline. Nesta says several times in SF that sheâs weak. She learned how weak she was when Elain was kidnapped by Hybern, and that truly traumatized her. As they hunt for the Dread Trove items, she realizes that she wants to be stronger. To protect Elain, to protect Cassian, and to protect herself. She offers to scry for the Dread Trove to protect Elain, who snaps that she doesnât need protection. Nestaâs issues with Elain are still unresolved by the end of SF, but I think thatâs a setup for the next book. Cassian is supposed to be this super warrior, but Nesta has seen him practically defeated twice now (when she went into the cauldron and when they faced off with Hybern). Nesta decides that she wants to be stronger for herself. After seeing what her expectations of others did to her father, sheâs realizing that she needs to take action. She pushes that very far on Ramiel during the Blood Rite, resolving her trauma at being unable to protect her loved ones. Nesta immediately goes to help Emerie and Gwyn, rather than assuming that they will be able to protect themselves. The old Nesta, who pushed Feyre to take extra risks, is gone. Nesta even sacrifices herself by remaining at the pass as Emerie and Gwyn finish the Rite. Itâs an act of selflessness and demonstrates everything sheâs realized about teamwork.
As far as the money goes, Rhys and Feyre offer Nesta jobs. They say at the beginning of SF that she refuses all of them. She doesnât have financial independence because she hasnât earned it. As a member of their family, Nesta is given access to the High Lord/Ladyâs credit around town and sheâs able to bill things to their accounts. Nesta says at the beginning of SF that she does this because thereâs no reason for her to work. She ultimately does a lot of things in SF that prove her valueâfinding the Dread Trove, saving Feyre, etc. But Feyre always found Nesta valuable, which is why she was recognized as part of their family and provided for initially. Nestaâs âjobâ after the intervention is shelving library books. In a magical house. That moves books all the time. Clearly, sheâs given this task so that she has something to do. Her job in the library leads to her forming some important relationships and friendships. Itâs another metaphor for overcoming depressionâjust forming a routine and getting âoutâ helps Nesta begin her process of recovery.
Now, if Nesta fulfilled a role in the court where she was leading the Valkyries, she would be carrying out a more lucrative job. If she got named as an advisor, like Amren or Mor, sheâd be carrying out a more lucrative job. There are many ways that Nesta can have financial independence by the conclusion of SF, and all it would take is a sentence or two. I donât think this was intentionally left out. The ending suggests that Nesta has adjusted and sheâs looking for ways to help others. She rejected working initially because she felt like there was no point, and she had nothing to give to others. By the end of SF, sheâs got a new perspective of herself and sheâs able to make more meaningful connections. Also, before leaving the topic of financial independence, Nesta likely wonât achieve that for a long time. Feyre and Rhysand are essentially royalty. Cassian, Amren, Azriel, and Morrigan all receive a paycheck for their roles in the court. Theyâre all several hundred years old at least, so theyâve had plenty of time to save. Even once Nesta starts receiving a salary after SF, it will take her time to gain enough wealth to be financially independent of her sister. Rhysand paid Feyre a salary when she arrived in the Night Court and agreed to work with them against Hybern. The implication is that Nesta never got paid because she spent everything she would have been paid in taverns. When heâs showering her with gifts at the end of the novel, it seems likely that he would re-establish a salary and account for her. I strongly doubt that Nesta is expected to start spending Cassianâs money, when Feyre and Rhys have been financing her all along.
Hell, even the dancing is a resolution of Nestaâs trauma. Her grandmother physically abused her when she was little, and her mother emotionally abused her by training her to use others for her benefit (and likewise using Nesta for herself). Dancing was the one thing that she enjoyed, and in SF she regains the ability to enjoy dancing for herself. Feyre and Rhys ask her to dance with Eris because of a political maneuver. Cassian had just noted that Nesta was making progress, but she needed to find something that brought her joy. Beyond the whole mate thing, he sees her dancing and he realizes that itâs a passion sheâs never shared. Itâs her thing, like Feyreâs painting or Elainâs gardening. Cassianâs solstice gift helps her resolve this issue because she can now dance any time she wants. Yet again, itâs another big tip on recovering from depression. Finding a hobby that brings joy can help to relieve some of those negative thoughts, especially when one is avoiding substance abuse.
Every trauma and unresolved issue that Nesta had is addressed by the end of the book. Her issues with her parents are issues that Elain and Feyre struggle with too, and now that both parents are dead they wonât get any further closure. But thatâs life, and perhaps they can now find some support in each other.
Nesta at the end of the book would look back at the way she was previously and cringe. Nesta was:
Traumatized emotionally and sexually, unable to find fulfillment in intimate relationships
Using people for her benefit regardless of their cost or risk
Only willing to help Elain
An alcoholic who refused to participate in family gatherings and lashed out to hurt others emotionally
Unable to protect herself or anyone she cared about
Alone, feeling like she failed her father, failed Elain, and failed herself
Unwilling to do any sort of work or contribute to the goals of the Night Court, while benefiting from their protection and funding
Unhappy
Sheâs still a powerful woman who doesnât take any shit. But Nesta now:
Has allowed herself to fall in love and enjoy it
Values others and supports them
Helps people when they need her
Has recovered from alcoholism and depression
Is no longer âweakâ in any way
Values herself
Is able to do meaningful work
Finds joy in life
The ending scene where she visits her fatherâs grave takes it full circle. Nesta finally allows herself to admit the truth and stops punishing herself for his death.
Whatâs the message here? People are social. Weâre pack animalsâthatâs why solitary confinement is so inhumane, and has such terrible effects on people. Nesta is independent and allowed to live her own life, but her friends and family can see that sheâs hurting. Instead of turning their backs on her and letting her continue to self-destruct, they stage an intervention. Itâs important that Nesta finds healing by reforming the Valkyries. She doesnât suddenly become best friends with Feyre, or recover her relationship with Elain. Things are still rocky with Amren. Nesta chooses her own people on her journey. This doesnât necessarily mean that sheâs forgiven the Night Court, but it does mean that sheâs better able to coexist with them. Since theyâre all immortal now, it makes sense that the Night Court tries so hard to help her. They canât just let Nesta wander off like a loose cannon, not when her powers could potentially threaten them. This isnât just about the relationship between Nesta and her sisters, itâs also a matter of keeping Velaris safe. If anything, itâs more realistic that it takes a lot of time for Nesta to find a reason to connect with Velaris and keep it safe. Feyre takes a walk for 10 minutes and decides that she wants to live there forever. Nesta takes several months to make friends with a few people and find some value in staying in the city.
When weâre depressed and traumatized, we tend to pull away from others. Nestaâs journey in this book follows some pretty standard recommendations for recovery: establishing a routine, avoiding substance abuse, resolving financial issues, addressing emotional trauma, forming meaningful relationships, etc. Even her motto âI am the rockâ is pretty standard meditation/recovery fare. The nature hike with Cassian is another big cheesy nod to recovery in real lifeâfresh air, exercise, and a connection with nature. Nestaâs healing arc is believable for her character and necessary for the progress of the series. If anything, itâs a little cliche. Donât forget that by the end of the book, Nesta is in control of three items in the Dread Trove. Despite the wards, she summons them to save Feyre. She knows that she could summon them at any time. The Mother allows her to keep some of the power she stole, so Nesta certainly isnât powerless. Individually, sheâs powerfulâand with the harp, mask, and crown sheâs almost a god. Nesta ends the book more powerful than she was before.
Thereâs also strong implications that sheâs going to become even more powerful as she explores the idea of being a âwitch.â Witches exist in other SJM books, but theyâre hardly explored in ACOTAR. Since itâs all part of the same big universe, I anticipate that we can expect this to come into play in some way for Nesta. Cryptically, the only thing anyone has to say about witches in ACOTAR is that they live in the Middle and feast on innocents to fill the void that magic left within them. Metaphorically, thatâs exactly what Nesta was doing at the start of SF. So perhaps sheâs a witch after all.
i donât know where to even start replying to you, honestly.
the 10,000 steps were symbolic to nestaâs journey. they were not symbolic enough that she needs to remain living there. sheâs locked away from society, itâs extremely difficult for her to leave the house. you said that all her traumas were addressed and resolved. i completely disagree. this is a quote from nesta around 85% through the book.
âHaving him kiss her and realizing that soon sheâd have to return to this world humming around them, and leave the House, and she didnât know what she would do then. What it would mean for them. If she would plunge back into that dark place sheâd occupied before. Drag him down with her.â
her fears are never addressed and resolved. nesta remaining in that house isnât having her trauma resolved. nesta staying in that house isnât a positive thing, sheâs afraid to leave her house and rejoin actual society. in her current mental state sheâd rather lock herself away than actually go face the world again. i canât say where sheâll be in the next book, but imo it doesnât matter because we wonât know her thoughts and feelings. this is how her book ends, and as far as we know itâs the only book sheâs getting. i know it takes a while to overcome such fears, but itâs also a fantasy book and it shouldâve been resolved by the end. especially if the main theme of this book is healing.
and about the financial independence, itâs not a satisfying ending to hear that rhys will probably continue to finance her. financial dependence on others has controlled her life, itâs the reason why people were even able to lock her up in a house in the first place. sheâs not going to be training or running the valkyries any time soon as she has just began training herself, sheâs clearly not going to go into any type of political job either as sjm has made it quite clear she wants nesta to be a warrior. so i disagree that itâs something that can be addressed in the next book in a sentence or two. and i completely disagree that her financial issues have been in any way resolved.
ďżźi donât have much to say on nesta finding her strength because i donât agree w the approach sjm took, or better the direction sjm took. nesta lost her autonomy in the cauldron, and then throughout the next few books realised that she was completely helpless to help or save anyone. itâs great that sheâs now physically stronger thanks to her training but imo it was the wrong way for nesta to find her strength. it doesnât really make any sense to me. nesta is smart, sheâs seen cassian (who is widely thought to be one of the strongest warriors ever) be taken down to almost death MULTIPLE times. so i canât understand why sjm would write that nesta would feel comforted knowing she can fight. itâs great that she can now, every woman should be able to defend themselves, but it doesnât make sense when she has seen that fighting isnât all that effective. and it makes no sense to me when she had all that power at her fingertips. every single instance in the books where nesta is doing something positive, or saving herselfâsheâs using her powers. she saved cassian in acowar thanks to her powers, she uses her powers to distract the king, uses her powers to save herself in the bog, uses her powers fo save herself and cassian from lanthys, uses her powers to kill briallyn and then uses her powers to save feyre. majority of the positive things sheâs done has been because of her powers. and i know she hates them because theyâre cauldron given, and the cauldron is a source of serious trauma to her. but she eventually came around to accept the mating bond, which is cauldron given. and if you remember she initially hated the idea of training too, and she came around to that. itâs amazing she can fight now, but to me personally it wasnât the most satisfying way for nesta to be able to defend herself and those she loves.
in regards to the bullet points showing the differences in old nesta and new nesta, i agree with some. sheâs definitely addressed her emotional trauma. and her sexual trauma, to an extent. sheâs allowed herself to love cassian now. but i disagree that she was only willing to help elain, and i disagree that she wasnât willing to do work for the inner circle. in book 1, she goes to try save feyre from prythian. in book 2, she helps feyre with the human queens. in book 3, she accepts a job as emissary, trains w amren to help rebuild the wall, helps by telling her story to the high lords, helps hurt soldiers in the war and eventually is ready to sacrifice herself to by feysand time to rebuild the cauldron. so imo sheâs always been willing to help others, she might not have always been enthusiastic about it but she helped when was asked.
you also said she values herself now. which i agree with, again to an extent. her self worth has definitely improved but she still has a lot of unhealthy feelings. a lot of nestaâs healing arc falls extremely flat. and nestaâs self worth is another thing that just falls flat to me. this is one of the very last paragraphs in the book
âHer father had died for her, with love in his heart, and though she might not have deserved it then ⌠She would do all she could now to earn it. To deserve not just his love, but that of those around her. Of Cassian.â
her self worth and value is still pretty low. nesta never becomes objective with herself. she never actually understands that sometimes sheâs just too hard on herself, and her failings arenât actually completely her fault. she doesnât realise that her father showing up for once doesnât excuse how neglectful and borderline abusive he was in her life. nesta thinking that she wasnât deserving of her neglectful fathers love but being determined to do all she can to be worthy of it now is honestly just disturbing to me. why is nesta still carrying his failings on her shoulders. and i also donât agree with the message that you need to work to be worthy of anyoneâs love, especially when those around nesta are not perfect saints by any means. she still feels unworthy, still has cassian on a pedestal where she canât see any of HIS mistakes and just blames herself for everything. which leads into a whole other topic of whether or not nesta even should be in a relationship right now.
also i donât agree that there are a lot of implications that nesta will be even more powerful the next book or explore being a witch. i feel like the only thing clear is that sheâs going to be a general like cassian.
maybe my expectations were too high for this book, maybe iâm applying too much reality to a fantasy book but i think if sjm wants to write books about mental health then i think itâs reasonable to be discussing whether or not nestaâs healing fell flat, which to me it did. some of the approaches to situations and messages sjm wants to send just donât sit right w me.
not everything about acosf was bad. the friendships nesta found were honestly so beautiful and meaningful, some of nestaâs inner thoughts on her trauma were so beautifully written too. but since plot was basically non existent, all the loose threads and very very rushed writing falls flat. because there isnât much else to the book. ie the sisters relationship being rushed towards the end, no meaningful conversations between the three of them, nesta and rhysands relationship being rushed at the end, nesta and mor being undeveloped and then rushed, nesta and amrens relationship not being touched upon much as well. if there was some intricate plot, it would be ok. but since there isnât, and all these relationships were not well written, a lot of nestaâs own issues not being properly resolved and even nessian not having proper development, nestaâs healing arc, again, just falls flat to me. obviously you clearly have a completely different opinion which i respect, but this is just my take on it.
thereâs a lot of other points you made but if i responded to each one iâd be writing for days. anyways i love hearing other peopleâs opinions on this stuff so i really appreciate the analysis on nesta!
Elain "Standing Up to Nesta"
Elain getting so much applause for how she "stood up to Nesta" at last in ACOSF, when Elain never did when Nesta and Feyre were going at each other in the cabin, never "stood up to Nesta" when Nesta was being unkind to anyone who wasn't Elain, never "stood up to Nesta" for "coddling" her the times Nesta stood between Elain and actual physical threats. Elain only conveniently "stood up to Nesta" once Elain was in a room full of people she could be assured would applaud her for doing do. All the medals to Elain at last, who "stood up to Nesta" once Nesta was alone and powerless and had everyone else in that room pitted against her.
Elain telling Nesta âAll you can think about is what my trauma has done to youâ was incredibly ignorant and no one can convince me otherwise.
For some reason, Elain thinks the trauma that had resulted from that night belongs solely to her and Nesta is being selfish for trying to take any ownership of it.
Everything in Nestaâs life, has always been about Elain. She came first and she never stopped to think about how it could impact Nesta. Very rarely does Nesta have the time to face her own trauma and learn to heal from it because she was always in environments/situations that put her on guard to protect her sister. And Elain has always been comfortable allowing her to do so while she retreats to the background where it was safe. She has never thought twice about putting Nesta in these positions all her life.Â
When the sisters first come to Pythian, Elain completely checks out from the weight of the loss and trauma she has experienced. Which is completely understandable. But she isnât the only one to have lost so much. So had Nesta. But at a time where Nesta may have needed her support, she wasnât there.Â
All Elain could think about was what their shared trauma has done to her. But Nesta never cared.
Those first few weeks in Pythian? Nesta was there to check on her. To make sure she is eating. To ensure her wellbeing. To see to her needs. To make sure she is comfortable.
In ACOSF, for the first time in Nestaâs life, she isnât capable of putting Elain first. But Elain is unwilling to confront the possibility that the trauma they both experienced that night may have affected her sister differently than it did her. As a result, she avoids putting herself in a position where she might have to face the full extent of that truth.
Iâm not saying that Elain doesnât have a right to feel greatly impacted by what had happened to her. She went through alot. But she doesnât get to pick and choose whose trauma that night was greater and warrants more concern.
But I think that Elain has a very valid point. The entire series, Feyre observed that Nesta would do anything to protect Elain. By the time SF rolls around, and Nesta is describing Elain as a dog, itâs because Nesta has never viewed her as anything more valuable than a pet.
When the Night Court visits the human world in ACOMAF, Nesta has been given everything she felt that she lost. But sheâs still angry, because she knows that her father didnât take care of them and return their fortune. Once again, Feyreâs sacrifice is what kept their family going. Elain has to remind them âAnd as for Feyreâs hunting during those years, it was not Nestaâs neglect alone that is to blame. We were scared, and had received no training, and everything had been taken, and we failed her. Both of us.â Everyone, even Feyre, thought of Elain as part of Nesta until that point. Even Feyre directs all of her anger and frustration toward their oldest sister, never blaming Elain for anything.
Then. Nesta fails at protecting Elain. Everyone fails at protecting them as theyâre Made, and Nesta is rightfully pissed about that as well. But watching Elainâs reaction to the event is all about Nestaâshe knows that she failed, sheâs unable to bully Elain into eating or living, and she resents that Feyreâs the one who saved her. She hovers over Elain in the House of Wind and hardly lets Feyre or anyone else near her. Nesta thinks that she failed again when Elain is kidnapped by Hybern, and she still doesnât get the opportunity to rescue her. Then when Elain starts to recover at the River HouseâŚItâs like Feyre stole Elain away from her.
Iâd also like to point out that Elain and Nesta kill Hybern together. âBut as a black blade broke through the kingâs throat, spraying blood, I realized someone else had. Elain stepped out of a shadow behind him, and rammed Truth-Teller to the hilt through the back of the kingâs neck as she snarled in his ear, âDonât you touch my sister.â Until that point in the series, theyâre a unit. This is the first time that Elain has any sort of agency, and itâs simply to lash out at the person threatening Nesta. As a dog would defend its master.
So in SF when Nesta is self-destructing, itâs because sheâs lost her purpose. She doesnât need to take care of Elain any more. Because of the Cauldron, she canât take care of Elain even when she wants to.
Elainâs comment just tells Nesta that she knows about the way Nesta thinks of her as a pet. Instead of being happy that Elain is somewhat adjusting, it just makes Nesta destruct even more. Because for Nesta, Elainâs trauma IS something that happened to her as well. SHE failed her sister, many times, and then Feyre stole her away.
For the first time in the series, Nesta acknowledges that Elain is capable of taking care of herself. And that is killing her. âElain could make her own choices. And had chosen to thoroughly shut the door on Nesta. Even as she fully embraced Feyre and her world. Nestaâs chest tightened, but she refused to think of it, acknowledge it. Elain was like a dog, loyal to whatever master kept her fed and in comfort.â
Elainâs comment that Nestaâs fixated on Elainâs trauma too personally is perfectly validâbecause Nesta doesnât see her as a capable individual most of the series and resents her once she becomes one. Her Making was something that happened to Nestaâs pet, until the pet pointed out that she was traumatized personally as well. Itâs the first time Elain stands up to Nesta, and it changes their relationship in a huge way.
And perhaps Elainâs new relationship with Feyre says more about her acknowledging the way her trauma effected others than anything else. Sheâs supportive, does things to take care of Feyre and her family for once, and blossoms as an independent person. At last, someone in the family is taking care of Feyre.
I am so confused about the point you are trying to make, since you are talking about events that donât even correlate to what I referenced in my original post. But Iâll try to break down what I think youâre saying.
But watching Elainâs reaction to the event is all about Nestaâshe knows that she failed, sheâs unable to bully Elain into eating or living, and she resents that Feyreâs the one who saved her. She hovers over Elain in the House of Wind and hardly lets Feyre or anyone else near her.Â
First and foremost. Nesta never failed Elain.Â
Secondly, throughout the series, Nesta puts Elain first. Whether it be her safety, her wants and needs. Elain always had Nesta looking out for her and helping her. You referenced briefly the initial meeting between the sisters and a newly-turned Feyre with her court. Remember that it was Elainâs decision not only to help Feyre with her war, but also stay back in the human lands instead of seeking safety in Pythian. And Nesta? She goes along with what Elain wants then and throughout the series:
âIt is your choice, ladies, whether you wish to remain here, or come with us. Elain thumbed the iron ring on her finger. âIt is your choice,â Nesta said with unusual gentleness. For her, Nesta would go to Prythian.
So to claim that Nesta would even think of âbullying Elain into doing anythingâ is a blatant lie. She never even swears at her. And at the same time, you purposefully misread Nestaâs concern for her sister as Nesta âmaking the event all about herself.â Itâs as if you have read an entirely different book than everyone else because how can you draw such conclusions? And to say that she resents that Feyre is the one who saved Elain when this exists in canon:
âShe let out a sob at the sight of Elain, still in Azrielâs arms. Iâd never heard a sound like that from her. Not once. [âŚ] I swallowed my shout of pain as Nestaâs arms went around my neck and she embraced me so hard it snatched my breath away. Her body shookâshook as she sobbed and said over and over and over, âThank you.â
But yeahâŚif you want to misunderstand what is clearly black and white, thatâs on you. The obvious gratefulness and joy at her sisters being alive seems to escape you. But what really makes me laugh is your comment about not letting Feyre or anyone near her:
âNesta only shook her head, turning toward the chair and her book. âI donât care. Do what you want.â A stinging dismissal, if not admission that she still trusted me enough to consider Elainâs needs firstâ
Nesta is furious that Feyre and her court failed to protect them from Hybern and is raging at the loss she and Elain suffered. She doesnât fully trust them (which is fair because she doesnât know them) but she doesnât prevent Elain from interacting with them either. And Nesta never stopped Feyre from being around Elain.Â
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Elain telling Nesta âAll you can think about is what my trauma has done to youâ was incredibly ignorant and no one can convince me otherwise.
For some reason, Elain thinks the trauma that had resulted from that night belongs solely to her and Nesta is being selfish for trying to take any ownership of it.
Everything in Nestaâs life, has always been about Elain. She came first and she never stopped to think about how it could impact Nesta. Very rarely does Nesta have the time to face her own trauma and learn to heal from it because she was always in environments/situations that put her on guard to protect her sister. And Elain has always been comfortable allowing her to do so while she retreats to the background where it was safe. She has never thought twice about putting Nesta in these positions all her life.Â
When the sisters first come to Pythian, Elain completely checks out from the weight of the loss and trauma she has experienced. Which is completely understandable. But she isnât the only one to have lost so much. So had Nesta. But at a time where Nesta may have needed her support, she wasnât there.Â
All Elain could think about was what their shared trauma has done to her. But Nesta never cared.
Those first few weeks in Pythian? Nesta was there to check on her. To make sure she is eating. To ensure her wellbeing. To see to her needs. To make sure she is comfortable.
In ACOSF, for the first time in Nestaâs life, she isnât capable of putting Elain first. But Elain is unwilling to confront the possibility that the trauma they both experienced that night may have affected her sister differently than it did her. As a result, she avoids putting herself in a position where she might have to face the full extent of that truth.
Iâm not saying that Elain doesnât have a right to feel greatly impacted by what had happened to her. She went through alot. But she doesnât get to pick and choose whose trauma that night was greater and warrants more concern.
But I think that Elain has a very valid point. The entire series, Feyre observed that Nesta would do anything to protect Elain. By the time SF rolls around, and Nesta is describing Elain as a dog, itâs because Nesta has never viewed her as anything more valuable than a pet.
When the Night Court visits the human world in ACOMAF, Nesta has been given everything she felt that she lost. But sheâs still angry, because she knows that her father didnât take care of them and return their fortune. Once again, Feyreâs sacrifice is what kept their family going. Elain has to remind them âAnd as for Feyreâs hunting during those years, it was not Nestaâs neglect alone that is to blame. We were scared, and had received no training, and everything had been taken, and we failed her. Both of us.â Everyone, even Feyre, thought of Elain as part of Nesta until that point. Even Feyre directs all of her anger and frustration toward their oldest sister, never blaming Elain for anything.
Then. Nesta fails at protecting Elain. Everyone fails at protecting them as theyâre Made, and Nesta is rightfully pissed about that as well. But watching Elainâs reaction to the event is all about Nestaâshe knows that she failed, sheâs unable to bully Elain into eating or living, and she resents that Feyreâs the one who saved her. She hovers over Elain in the House of Wind and hardly lets Feyre or anyone else near her. Nesta thinks that she failed again when Elain is kidnapped by Hybern, and she still doesnât get the opportunity to rescue her. Then when Elain starts to recover at the River HouseâŚItâs like Feyre stole Elain away from her.
Iâd also like to point out that Elain and Nesta kill Hybern together. âBut as a black blade broke through the kingâs throat, spraying blood, I realized someone else had. Elain stepped out of a shadow behind him, and rammed Truth-Teller to the hilt through the back of the kingâs neck as she snarled in his ear, âDonât you touch my sister.â Until that point in the series, theyâre a unit. This is the first time that Elain has any sort of agency, and itâs simply to lash out at the person threatening Nesta. As a dog would defend its master.
So in SF when Nesta is self-destructing, itâs because sheâs lost her purpose. She doesnât need to take care of Elain any more. Because of the Cauldron, she canât take care of Elain even when she wants to.
Elainâs comment just tells Nesta that she knows about the way Nesta thinks of her as a pet. Instead of being happy that Elain is somewhat adjusting, it just makes Nesta destruct even more. Because for Nesta, Elainâs trauma IS something that happened to her as well. SHE failed her sister, many times, and then Feyre stole her away.
For the first time in the series, Nesta acknowledges that Elain is capable of taking care of herself. And that is killing her. âElain could make her own choices. And had chosen to thoroughly shut the door on Nesta. Even as she fully embraced Feyre and her world. Nestaâs chest tightened, but she refused to think of it, acknowledge it. Elain was like a dog, loyal to whatever master kept her fed and in comfort.â
Elainâs comment that Nestaâs fixated on Elainâs trauma too personally is perfectly validâbecause Nesta doesnât see her as a capable individual most of the series and resents her once she becomes one. Her Making was something that happened to Nestaâs pet, until the pet pointed out that she was traumatized personally as well. Itâs the first time Elain stands up to Nesta, and it changes their relationship in a huge way.
And perhaps Elainâs new relationship with Feyre says more about her acknowledging the way her trauma effected others than anything else. Sheâs supportive, does things to take care of Feyre and her family for once, and blossoms as an independent person. At last, someone in the family is taking care of Feyre.
The argument that Elain wasnât there for Nesta is incredibly frustrating:
The only reason Nesta was able to sit by Elainâs side was because Elain allowed her to be there. Nesta didnât reach out a hand which Elain slapped and then told her to leave, that she didnât want her there. Elain never said anything cruel to Nesta during her recovery like, âyou told me youâd protect me!â No, she just sat there quietly, saying little and asking nothing from anyone. Iâm sure it was difficult to see Elain so depressed but Elain gave no personal attack on Nestaâs person during that time, she never actively went out of her way to hurt Nesta.
I respect Nesta needing space after everything that happened but letâs not pretend that she wasnât the reason Elain wasnât around for her trauma. Elain did reach out to her and Nesta refused her multiple times. You can not repeatedly push people away and expect them to keep taking it, thatâs not how most are built. Nesta said âNoâ a few times and Elain respected that by giving her the distance Nesta asked for. I know a Nesta and I know that there is no use pushing past their ânoâ and doing something anyway. There is no convincing until they themselves decide theyâre ready.
And of course Nesta was effected by what happened to Elain but the point Elain was making is that Nesta does not get to use her fear over what happened to Elain as a guilt trip to prevent Elain from moving forward, to stand in the way of her offering to help out. Yes, it scared Nesta but it still isnât reason enough for her to tell Elain what she can and canât do.
And yes, Elain has grown closer to Feyre but thatâs a very vulnerable narcissistic characteristic of Nesta, to assume Elain can only be close to one of her sisters. That by growing closer to Feyre it means she chose her over Nesta. Elain wants to be close to them both, Nesta was the one who put a stop to that.
It is a sign of Nestaâs emotional immaturity to feel threatened by Elain developing a better relationship with Feyre. Rather than looking it at it as a positive thing for all the sisters, sheâs only able to view it in the terms of how it affects her.
The way I see it, tbh I think it was a writing mistake from sjm imo, the sisters werenât trying to help Nesta more so just trying not to abandon her. The way I see Feyre and Elain insist on Nesta joining them and invite her to their gatherings etc. but why not visit Nesta or as Nesta said âElain can come hereâ as in go to one of her tavern visits? Cassian gets shocked when he realizes maybe perhaps Nesta wasnât joining their gatherings to get away from those that see her as Cauldron made or Feyreâs sisterâ and also for the music. To say Elain was there for here simply because she would invite Nesta to places doesnât equate her being there for her. I mean the sisters donât have to try harder obv what Iâm saying is that it was incredibly insensitive of Elain to claim the trauma of the moment as her own to the only person that has stood by her side since pre poverty years and not because Nesta saw her as a pet but because she loves her I mean time and time again Nesta has shown sheâll support Elain regardless if she stands up for herself or not and when Nesta is in her trenches Elain tries to encourage Nesta to go to these social gatherings Nesta is clearly not happy at. And then proceeds to tell depressed Nesta during her healing journey (HoW imprisonment) that sheâs not even trying. This is just from my observations but even in canon we get from Feyre âitâs not fair for Elain to have directed that only to youâ and Cassians âhe knows what it feels like firsthand what itâs like to watch those you love get takenâ like it was super insensitive imo but because Nesta reacts by lashing out when people hurt her thereâs this sort of idea that Nesta was the wrong one when I can see how Elain was wrong as well.
Again, Nesta was only able to remain by Elainâs side because Elain allowed it. Had Elain ever pushed Nesta away the way Nesta did Elain than we wouldnât be sitting here having this conversation.
And had Nesta said, âIâd like to see you, can you visit me away from Feyre?â then thereâs a good chance Elain would have done so. What she did instead was tell Elain she wasnât going to have anything to do with her and ignored her when she saw her out.
The problem with Nesta is she apparently wanted all these things and had these expectations of what others were supposed to do for her yet she never asked for them. And instead of asking for the things she actually needed, she pushed people away. Nesta was struggling and Iâm not blaming her for actions but you canât then blame the other characters for not being mind readers.
And you canât throw âNesta did this for Elain!â back on Elain. Itâs not a âwell I did this for you so you need to do this for me!â situation. Thatâs not why youâre supposed to do things for others, as if youâre banking favors so later you can cash them in. Nesta was there for Elain because she wanted to be, Elain never asked it of her. And when Elain tried to do the same for Nesta, Nesta told her she didnât want her around, that she wanted to be alone. Would you have expected Elain to ignore Nestaâs request? To claim she knew what Nesta needed more than Nesta herself? Isnât that why everyone was so mad at the IC for putting Nesta in the HOW? Because they decided they knew better than her?
Really, it comes down to the fact that Nesta had no idea what she wanted or needed and the only person who was responsible to figure that out was Nesta herself. And when she chose words she knew would hurt and drive Elain away, you canât blame Elain for it working. Elain NEVER pushed Nesta away so you canât act like their situations are the same.
The only reason Nesta was able to sit by Elainâs side was because Elain allowed her to be there
Elain didnât allow Nesta to be around her during those initial weeks in Velaris. Elain was barely in a position to allow anything, let alone push anyone way. Elain had retreated so far into herself that she didnât care about her own wellbeing.
âNestaâs rage was better than this ⌠shell. This void.â
âNothing. Not even a flicker of emotion.â
She doesnât eat, doesnât sleep and continues to mourn the life she had lost. But it is a testament of Nestaâs love for her sister to act without being asked.
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I have a hard time believing that the IC would have actually used Elain when they asked her about searching for the dread trove. If only for the fact that if Elain had already agreed why did they have to ask Nesta at all? Nesta didnât even have to know about it, really, and if they did ask and she wasnât following through then they could have asked Elain then and just went on their merry way and Iâm sure Nesta would have been pissed, but Elain would have done it... probably. They didnât have to involve Nesta at all really, because Elain would have been the most convenient if they also didnât feel she wasnât incapable. Elain, Iâd argue, would have been the better option if only for the fact that they think sheâs fine, and Nesta for sure was not. So I donât see how that whole scene was not a manipulation on Nestaâs part for this very reason. Especially because we get that scene separate from Amren being like there are many ways to convince her.
But we also get these small instances where Elain is brought up to be an option and then quickly shut down but not just by Nesta. Which I think is very interesting thing, because Nestaâs overprotectiveness is her being deeply afraid of the cauldron and what the cauldron did the last time which for some reason, is misunderstood. But also itâs her personality as weâve seen from her lying her body on Cassian, her sacrificing her power for Feyre, her âcoddlingâ Elain, her âI donât care about meâ speech. Her sticking up for Gwyn. Sheâs very protective. Thatâs her love.
But, why do the IC do it? This is the question... that haunts me. And makes me often wonder if more problems are caused just by the dynamic of this group of people, not necessarily individually themselves. Because individually they all need healing arcs. But as a group they need group therapy and less moral responsibility, because there is no reason they need to be involved in so many things outside of the Night Court and Prythrian now and again.
Mor asking to train with The Valkyries is her way of trying to bond with Nesta and no one can convince me otherwise
She did take some steps in the right direction. Once she got to know Nesta as Nesta and not as Nesta pictured through other peopleâs perspective. I think spending one-on-one time with each other helped them both realize the hate between them was uncalled for
Iâm not as generous about this but I can concede itâs a step in the right direction, only coz Mor imo was doing it for Cassian and/or Feyre.
Mor and Rhys were, if not the first, the biggest hater of Nesta from the start and their opinion of her never really changed from the very first time they met her unlike the way the rest of the IC did, and only got worse over time.
They were only restrained coz of Feyre mostly, since they werenât immediately aware of Cassianâs feelings for Nesta.
The crap Mor said about and to Nesta at the beginning of acosf were uncalled for and sheâs the last person to say anything against Nesta, even if she was defensive against Nestaâs animosity towards Cassian when Mor herself is guilty of 500 years worth of things when it comes to Cassian.
Sheâs gone most of the time, the most encounter she has with Nesta is to winnow her to places and even that got rare later on, so I donât think her opinion of Nesta suddenly changed coz Nesta was in the eyes of IC was getting better.
More likely she got wind of conversions that happened between Rhys and Cassian when it came to Nesta and was ordered to be less antagonizing. And Cassian also has stopped hiding how he feels about Nesta, so Mor probably thought he owe it to him to try.
And to me, her inviting herself to Valkyrie training has the same energy as when she âcomplimentedâ Nestaâs dress, it feels not fully sincere.
Theyâll never be best friends, they donât need to be, and not that I want them to stay antagonistic towards each other, but one of the biggest disappointments in acosf was them not getting a proper resolution, like they skipped several steps from where they were at the beginning to where they were suddenly at the end.