Apparently, Jergal and Shar had a thing going on way back in the Netherese days. Enough that somehow Jergal seems to have obtained the domain of Murder from her... A romantic gift? A dowry? A sly trick? A gamble from the deity that bestowed his domains through bar games? An interesting plot thread there.
No wonder he's waxing nostalgic about "bosom companions" in the Shadowlands. 😘
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Let's say I was writing a part of my Tav's story with Wyll directly connected to the dialogue he has during the tiefling party, and while struggling with this bit, I've realized there's quite a few misconceptions floating around. I felt compelled to add information to the table that might clear them, so here we go.
First, what exactly happens to Wyll when he disobeys Mizora in act one? Well, he doesn't get turned into a devil, he certainly doesn't get turned into a tiefling, he's not a half fiend, not a demon, none of that. Wyll stays human, but he has horns and red eyes (and other features we can't see on his model as of now).
(Everyone has their race listed, Wyll's remains "Human")
This is because when a warlock fails to uphold some part of their contract they can suffer a certain number of consequences, Wylls is “The character grows horns, a tail, or some other devilish features that can't be removed by any means short of divine intervention. As long as these marks persist the character detects as a fiend when subjected to Detect Evil and Good spells or similar magic.” ( from Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, page 214)
And I’ve come across some people that think it wasn’t so bad of a punishment, that he was being racist towards the tieflings, or just not being justified in being upset after having his body forcibly changed against his will. I think they are missunderstanding just how insidious Mizora’s actions were, and here I just want to give some context to maybe bring a better understanding to the situation. Your conclusions are up to you.
Gonna start by using a not exact analogy, but I think it’s going to make the explanation easier. Stick with me for a minute.
Remember Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean? He had a branded “P” on his arm that marked him as a pirate. A murderer, robber, criminal, etc. in the eyes of the society he was a part of. What did Jack do to earn the branding? (if you don’t know this I suggest you look up the “people aren’t cargo mate” scene) He refused to transport slaves and later freed them, and Beckett had him marked as punishment.
Then, in the first movie, he saves Elizabeth, a woman he didn’t know, from drowning. Right after however, when Norrington sees he has a branded “P”, he’s like “alright, off to jail with you, and then hanging”, no other option crosses his mind. Again, Jack doesn’t know Elizabeth, isn’t indicated to think he is going to be rewarded for helping her, he just sees a drowning person, sees that no one else is going to help, and chooses to save them. That is a pretty selfless/good aligned thing to do, for no other reason that he was the one able to do it, yet the branding in his arm overrides any good action he could ever do, marking him as a criminal for execution and no further thought.
In a way, that’s what Mizora did to Wyll; she forever visibly branded him as someone that has made deals with devils, and that in the world of DnD is a VERY BAD THING. Personally I really like the mod that gives him more devilish features, but at the same time I think there was something clever about choosing to leave him looking more human. He can’t be confused with a tiefling, he doesn’t have the ears, the claws, the tail, all those features that characterize them. He looks kind of uncanny, and that would be like a red flag for anyone in that world. (Beyond the already existing hate for tieflings that I’m not gonna tackle on here because it’s a complicated thing that deserves its own post). And Wyll wants to do good, he wants to help people, to be a positive force in the world so, so badly. This dude got abducted by a nautiloid, got tadpole’d, and the first thing he did right after that was come across the Tiefling refugees and be like “Oh you need help? No worries let me teach you self defense. Oh you being attacked by goblins? Let me blast them real quick”. His way of saying fuck you to all the awful things that have happened to him is being aggressively good and kind. Mizora knows this very well, wants to see him suffer for her amusement, wants to remind him he can't escape her claws, so her choice of punishment was to forever taint his future interactions with mistrust and suspicion. Some people can go real fast from “oh thank God they saved me” to “oh no, are they gonna rob me, are they trying to trick me, are they in cahoots with the ones that attacked me first?” just because of outward appearances. Especially in DnD world. And that deserves its own conversation, but we're focusing on Wyll here.
(Mizora, when I catch you Mizora)
“Well, maybe he shouldn’t have made a deal in the first plac- - “ He was seventeen, alone, preyed upon by Mizora and put in an impossible situation. Please PAY ATTENTION to the story you’re witnesing.
Anyway.
About the tieflings. I know it’s easy to think his words can be derisive towards them, but it’s less about the horns and more about his body being changed against his will. Imagine instead that he got half his face burned, or something that disfigured him. I think his feelings at the moment were closer to that, and yeah they are pretty insensitive words to say to someone with a similar condition (horns or disfiguration), but when feelings are fresh and raw like that it’s easy to say insensitive things. Not saying it was ok for him to say them, but there was no malice in his words. I’ve also seen some people share that they think Mizora wanted to change him more to make him unrecognizable to his original self, the Wyll Ravenguard kid, and I think there is some truth to that too. She wants to make sure that Wyll remembers that he belongs to her, there's no question to that.
(MIZORA, WHEN I CATCH YOU MIZORA)
Whether the Tieflings refugees would feel unsettled by Wyll or not? Yes. In a way, they would. From reasons aside from the ones I explained above, remember that these specific tieflings come from Elturel. If you didn’t pass the History check or don’t remember, Elturel is a city that was literally ripped from the land and dragged to Avernus, First layer of hell (it left a hole on the ground and everything) because their mayor made a deal with the Archdevil Zariel some decades back in the timeline. He sold the souls of all its citizens and the city itself.
This was probably one of the worst times of their lives. Some even got captured and forced to participate in the blood War, like Dammon as a mechanic. And after Elturel got returned to the surface, the tieflings lost their homes because they reminded the other citizens of the literal Hell they’d just gone through, and they kicked them out. And remember, they met and saw Wyll as a human, and then saw him with horns. It’s not unreasonable to think that by looking at him they would be reminded of all the events that led them to the awful situation they’re in. Because of someone that was making deals with devils, just like Wyll. Even if his situation is completely different. And Wyll knows that, that’s why he tells you the tieflings are unsettled by him and chooses to stay away during the party.
It was never just about the horns.
And I know Wyll calls himself a devil but I think it’s because it’s the closest thing he looks as; devils are a whole different race with their own intricacies, although humans can be turned into devils ONCE their souls go to Avernus and they start climbing the power hierarchy there (Mizora and Raphael are cambions/ half-devils btw, which is a different thing, there are plenty of videos exploring those details more in depth).
Do I think Larian should have made some of this information clearer/easier to access? Maybe? but to be fair, it's a game focused and dedicated to a crowd that was already somewhat familiar with the source material, that blew up waay out of what they originally expected to reach. Hopefully they’ll add some clarifications like they did to other quests.
Anyway these are my two cents to the conversation, have a nice day, and don't hesitate to add your two cents if you feel like it!
I'm just saying, if you're going to worldbuild magic being a "raw, primal force, akin to and interweaving with nature itself" you gotta explain to me why animals don't use it
I know the normal answer is "they just aren't smart enough for it" but idk I've seen enough media where a character uses a spell in a moment of brain-off panic ilI feel like animals could probably stumble into a spell or two like, accidentally
Fantasy setting where every species of animal has One Fucked Up Trick exactly like in medieval bestiaries (e.g., panthers hypnotising their prey with sweet breath, pelicans reviving the dead with their willingly shed blood, etc.), except these are actually learned magic spells passed down from parent to offspring, so different populations of the same animal in different regions might have a different spell.
(If a species is domesticated you can teach it any spell you want, as long as you start 'em young enough; every breed of dog has a different "standard" spell, and knowing the "wrong" one is considered both a grave departure from breed standards and a potential violation of animal husbandry ethics.)
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I just love how much in a timeline with any other player character than the Dark Urge, the Dark Urge is just haunting the narrative of BG3. Because if you play a non-Durge (be it origin or Tav) you will hear some hints of the Dark Urge, and can find the in-game documents. But you will barely learn anything about them. But they are still there in the background. Haunting it all. Their specter is basically floating there. And there is this beautiful tragedy in it, in how if you play the Dark Urge they have a chance of redemption. But if you play as anyone else, they never got the chance.
My only contribution to the "Is Gale rich?" question is this:
I've been telling all of you since forever that wizards are bourgeoisie!!! THEY HOARD POWER AND CAPITAL, SITTING IN THEIR TOWERS LIKE DRAGONS WITH GOLD. They could use their magic and knowledge to alleviate so many societal ills, and yet what do they do??? ALL THEY DO IS BE BISEXUAL, PONDER ORB, AND LIE.
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Posting my contribution to the @shadowheartzine.bsky.social !
This was my second zine I was able to work and contribute to and was very fun to bring Sharran Shadowheart to life.
it is so funny when you realize that by drow standards, especially drow noble house and ESPECIALLY Baenre standards, Minthara is the woke liberal
She is willing to work with men in leadership positions even post-mind control and she will actually compliment and admire their tyrannical prowess
She will argue that the refugees in Baldur’s Gate should be enslaved because it’s practical and better for them that way, not because they’re weak lesser races that deserve to be subjugated
Like she probably gets called a libtard at Spider Thanksgiving every year while all her relatives are trying to poison each other
Do you love Orin the Red? Then join us from the 9th - 15th November for Orin Week, a celebration of all things Orin! (And if you don't love Orin, get on that right now!)
Orin Week will run on both tumblr and bluesky and is an opportunity to make and share all kinds of Orin creations, be that fic, art, virtual photography, meta, headcanons or anything else. I'll be sharing a list of daily prompts in the weeks before the event, but don't feel you have to follow them - we want to celebrate any work focused on Orin!
Any kind of content is allowed - no dove is too dead for Orin the Red, (though please try to include warnings, use the cut, etc, if you think you're making particularly sensitive content). And conversely, if you want to make some tooth-rotting fluff of Orin abandoning murder to pet puppies, that's okay too! OCs are welcome - whether custom Dark Urges, Tavs, or anyone else you want Orin to interact with.
Please tag your creations with #OrinWeek so we're able to reblog them, here or on BlueSky (and please make allowances for the fact that your mod is only slowly learning how BlueSky actually works!) Many thanks to @meadowbone for making me an Orin Week feed over there, which you can find here:
Orin Week
I'll also be making a collection on AO3 that people are welcome to put their creations into there too!
Let us know if you have any questions/suggestions, and otherwise, see you in November!
One thing I've been thinking about recently with regards to the pseudo-medieval stasis of most DnD settings is that it actually makes a lot of sense when you consider that it is in the best interest of the Gods and other divine beings to have large scale mortal societies, but it's not in their interest to let those societies get too advanced.
Think about it. Gods are fueled in part by mortal belief and prayer so Gods need to cultivate widespread mortal civilizations to maximize their following and thus their power. But the longer a mortal civilization goes on and the more advanced it gets the greater the possibility that one or more mortals will catch a case of the Old Hubris Shudders and take a swing at usurping the Gods, dethroning the Gods, banishing the Gods and cutting off their access to the Prime Material, or otherwise table flipping the divine balance of power.
If you're a divine being that's bad, so what do you do? You employ the good old Tower of Babble strat. Frequently.
Mortal societies getting the magic-tech version industrialized and starting to question the infallibility of their agricultural pastroalist deities? Wide spread famine will fix that right up. Elves building a continent spanning empire and the Emperor starting to crave immortality and worship like a god? Smiting the Emperor is a Standard Action and toppling his Empire with a rain of jaguars is a Bonus Action. A particularly rowdy group of wizards start planning to raise their city into the heavens where they might potentially be a threat? Turning all the wizards into undead and punting the tower into the Underdark for good measure nips that problem right in the bud AND creates a fun dungeon location for some mid level adventurers in a few centuries.
The way most DnD settings structure their cosmology the Gods are incentivized to wreck civilization on the regular for their own safety, but too always make sure it comes back. The layers upon layers of lost ancient civilizations are just what piles up as a side effect of that process, as is the fact that DnD constantly seems to peak out around roughly the medieval era in terms of tech and society. From a divine perspective medieval realms are probably nice and manageable to keep track of, but anything past that gets unwieldy and dangerous. It's like tending an ant farm that you don't want to become to big both because it gets harder to take care of, and because there is a small but never zero chance one of the ants might find a magic sword that will let them murder you.
I won't lie: Volo as the NPC who's died the most feels so validating, to me, in this moment. I will never question the value of Larian's statistics posts ever again.
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