In over a decade, I have never been known as a blog that posts original content. This is more a personal space to reblog and like works that match whichever special interest I have at the time. But, Scarlet Pimpernel is a media very dear to me and so much of the fan content for it is lost. So there's just a few tidbits I'd like to save for my own records and maybe other people would stumble upon this and enjoy them too. So this is a master post of all that so it's easy for me (and others) to find in future.
Fun Things
All the Scarlet Pimpernel Books
Which Scarlet Pimpernel Character are You Quiz
Scarlet Pimpernel Madlibs
The Scarlet Pimpernel Musical Quiz
Musical Interviews
SP2 (Minskoff):
Douglas Sills #1 (1998) - Percy
Douglas Sills #2 (1999)
Rachel York (1999) - Marguerite
Rex Smith (1999) - Chauvelin
SP3 (Neil Simon):
Ron Bohmer Part 1 (1999) - Percy
Ron Bohmer Part 2 (1999)
Carolee Carmello (1999) - Marguerite
Marc Kudisch (1999) - Chauvelin
SP4 (National Tour):
Robert Patteri (2000) - Percy
Amy Bodnar (2000) - Marguerite
William Paul Michals (2000) - Chauvelin
The Forces Behind the Show:
Frank Wildhorn (1999) - Composer
Nan Knighton Part 1 (1999) - Writer
Nan Knighton Part 2 (1999)
Nan Knighton (Late 1999)
The League Roundtable Discussion Part 1 (1999)
The League Roundtable Discussion Part 2 (1999)
Photos
Fan Website Photos
The Scarlet Pimpernel (SP1) Misc Photos (1998)
The Scarlet Pimpernel Closing Night Photos (October 1st, 1998)
The Scarlet Pimpernel (SP2) Marquee Reveal Photos (October 9th, 1998)
The Scarlet Pimpernel (SP2) Last Curtain Call (May 30th, 1999)
Musical Souvenir Program Photos
SP1 Program (1997/1998)
SP2 Program (1998/1999)
SP3 Program (1999)
SP4 Program (2000/2001)
Talkin' Broadway 1998 Article credited to Nancy Rosati
Articles
1997 Playbill Article by Mervyn Rothstein
They Sailed "Into the Fire" and Came Out Winners (1998) by Nancy Rosati
Souvenir Program Articles
All credited to Peter Royston
Seduced by the Scarlet Pimpernel - A Letter from the Producers
The Hidden Hero
Baroness Orczy - The Creator of The Scarlet Pimpernel
More to come, more to come...
And to all the people who created wonderful fan websites the Wayback Machine does not do justice to or has lost completely, who supported The Scarlet Pimpernel in all its forms and kept it alive, thank you. I've read the same names over and over across the websites, references to the League of fans and its Bounders, and all of you seem amazing.
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Baroness Orczy - The Creator of The Scarlet Pimpernel
The Scarlet Pimpernel Masterlist
A little biography of Baroness Orczy in the 3rd and 4th versions of The Scarlet Pimpernel souvenir programs. As with the other 2 articles, it is credited to Peter Royston.
SP3's souvenir program is here
SP4's souvenir program is here
In her autobiography Baroness Emmuska Orczy (pronounced Ort-zee) writes “I have so often been asked the question ‘But how did you come to think of the Scarlet Pimpernel?’ And my answer has always been: ‘It was God’s will that I should.’ And to you moderns, who perhaps do not believe as I do, I will say, ‘In the chain of my life, there were so many links, all of which tended towards bringing me to the fulfillment of my destiny.’”
Born in 1865 in Hungary, she spent her first years in a time of “splendid feudal lords ensconced in their opulent chateaux, medieval still in their magnificence.” Her father was a nobleman in the court of Franz Joseph, and the lord of a great farm along the river Tarna. From the start, she was romantic. When she and her sister played, Emmuska would always be the dashing prince come to save the damsel in distress. “In a childish, obscure way, my imagination was already then at work on doughty deeds of valour, on noble heroes, dare-devil adventures and on hapless victims of cruel persecutions.”
This dreamlike childhood came to a fiery end when she was three years old. Caught in the anxieties of the Industrial Revolution, the peasant workers on the Orczy estate set fire to the barn and stables rather than use new harvesting machinery. The fire quickly spread to the crops. The image of her home destroyed by an irrational mob stayed with Emmuska her entire life.
After the disaster, the Baron moved his family throughout Europe, trying to recoup his losses. He finally brought them to London in 1880, where they settled on Wimple Street. Emmuska was 15 years old. Although she spoke not a word of English, she felt a strong connection with her new home, which she later called her “spiritual birthplace.”
Youthful dreams of artistic glory and fame moved her from music to painting, and finally, after her marriage to a young illustrator named Montague Barstow, to writing. Her first successes came in the genre of detective fiction, creating several eccentric detective heroes to conquer the crime of London. But Orczy felt that something bigger was coming: “I felt inside my heart a kind of stirring that the writing of sensational stuff for magazines would not, and should not, be the end and aim of my ambition. I wanted to do something more than that. Something big.”
Something big came to her on a trip to Paris, as her and her husband wandered “along the pavements which to my ears still echoed with the clatter of the tumbrels and the shouts of the revolutionary mob thirsting for freedom at the price of the tyrant’s blood.” In her mind, she saw the bloody world of the French Revolution. Now she needed a hero to fight its terror.
Upon their return to England, he came to her in a vision at an Underground station: “I saw–yes, I saw Sir Percy Blakeney, just as you know him now. I saw him in his exquisite clothes, his slender hands holding up his spy-glass; I heard his lazy, drawling speech, his quaint laugh. It was the whole life story of the Scarlet Pimpernel that was there and then revealed to me.” In a fit of inspiration, she wrote The Scarlet Pimpernel in five weeks.
Her book was rejected by most of the publishing houses in London, who were looking for modern, true-to-life novels, not her heroic adventure story. A friend put her in contact with the husband and wife acting team of Fred Terry and Julia Neilson, who were looking for a new romantic drama. Working with her husband, Emmuska quickly adapted her book for the stage.
They play opened at the New Theatre in London in 1904. The standing ovation of the first night audience was “hot and strong,” but not so the reaction of the jaded critics the next morning. But Orczy’s story struck a nerve and world of mouth made The Scarlet Pimpernel one of the most popular plays ever produced on a London stage.
The novel was published soon after the play’s opening and was an immediate success. The original novel was translated into 16 languages, and Orczy eventually wrote 11 sequels over the years. Sir Percy has been played by Leslie Howard, David Niven, James Mason, Anthony Andrews and Daffy Duck (in the classic Scarlet Pumpernkickel).
In 1947, several years after the death of her husband, Emmuska published her autobiography, Links in the Chain of Life. She died several weeks later at the age of 82.
Baroness Orczy fulfilled her dreams of fame and glory. Her beloved Pimpernel was ‘elusive’ to his enemies, but not to the rest of us: he has lived on in books, movies, cartoons, and now as an exciting Broadway musical. The Baroness would have been well pleased.
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This article shows up in every single one of The Scarlet Pimpernel's souvenir programs. It is a little history into masked heroes from the Pimpernel to Zorro to Superman and Batman. Just a little love letter to the genre.
Credited to Peter Royston.
Souvenir program photos:
SP1, SP2, SP3, SP4
The Scarlet Pimpernel, Mademoiselle, is the name of a humble English wayside flower; but it is also the name chosen to hide the identity of the best and bravest man in the world, so that he may better succeed in accomplishing the noble task he has set himself to do.” – from the novel The Scarlet Pimpernel by Baroness Orczy
To create her hero, Baroness Orczy took elements from Sherlock Holmes, the legends of Robin Hood and the novels of Alexandre Dumas, but then added a final ingredient of her own: the secret identity. The notion of unlikely heroes finding hidden reserves of courage is as old as The Frog Prince, Beauty and the Beast, or David and Goliath. But Orczy introduced a new idea into the collective consciousness: a heroic figure who creates a lounging, foppish alter ego to hide his (or her) true, heroic nature. It was as if Orczy saw that the Age of Heroism was over, and that the 20th century would be controlled by bureaucrats and small men. For the hero to survive, he would have to hide behind a mild-mannered mask.
Orczy always stated that her main purpose in inventing the Scarlet Pimpernel was the create the image of the proper English gentleman. Like the pimpernel itself, the humble way-side flower that could nevertheless withstand the harsh English weather, Sir Percy’s frail, garish exterior hid an inner strength and resolve.
Although The Scarlet Pimpernel was originally written for an English audience, it was really in America that the idea of the secret identity touched a nerve. As the 20th century moved on and the average man or woman felt more and more overwhelmed by the roar of history, America became a land of hidden heroes. Jerry Siegel, who created Superman with Joe Shuster in 1934, said it best when he spoke of being a high school student, trying to impress his fellow students “who either didn’t know I existed or didn’t care I existed. It occurred to me: What if I had something special going for me, like jumping over buildings or throwing cars around or something like that?”
While the Scarlet Pimpernel didn’t leap over tall buildings in a single bound, Orczy seemed to tap into a deep need in us all to break out of everyday existence into the life of a hero. Superman was only the most famous of the many modern warriors who came after the Scarlet Pimpernel.
In 1919, Johnson McCulley created the secret identity of the rich idler Don Diego, who put on the black mask of Zorro, saying, “The moment I donned cloak and mask, the Don Diego part of me fell away. My body straightened, new blood seemed to course through my veins, my voice grew strong and firm, fire came into me! And the moment I removed the cloak and mask I was the languid Don Diego again. Is it not a peculiar thing?” Not so peculiar to a world just learning about the rules of secret identities with such pulp heroes as the Grey Seal, the Spider and the Black Bat.
1931, the Shadow, hiding behind the face of the lounging playboy Lamont Cranston first put fear into the hearts of evildoers, thanks to writer Walter Gibson. And from there, it wasn’t a long jump to 1939, when Bob Kane and Bill Finger created that “weird figure of the dark,” the Batman.
In his book The Night Master, Robert Sampson writes that such heroes are “glorious dreams. Myself as I should be, if only. These heroes live above customary consequences. Not really of society, they occupy a privileged position outside. They are guardians, not subjects. It is their self-imposed responsibility to protect society from those terrible forces that gnaw at it.”
With the popularity of Superman and Batman, not to mention Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne, the secret identity quickly became a part of 20th century iconography. Everyone wants to rip open their shirt to reveal the hero underneath; the true nature, or so they hope. In the end, the Baroness Orczy succeeds because this idea is so optimistic. She gives us hope that someone strong, charismatic, audacious, heroic, lies just underneath the face we look at in the mirror. While Robert Louis Stevenson discovered the monster in us all with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Baroness Orczy looked for the hidden hero.
Seduced by the Scarlet Pimpernel - A Letter from the Producers
The Scarlet Pimpernel Masterlist
One of the articles that appears in the first souvenir program for The Scarlet Pimpernel in 1997 & 1998. Credited to Peter Royston. It's basically a timeline of how the producers all signed onto the project originally and hyping up the show that was new on the scene at the time.
SP1's souvenir program photos are here.
Welcome to adventure, to romance, to heroism! Welcome to the bloody streets of Paris, to the charming gardens of England, to the windswept English Channel. Welcome to breathtaking duels, narrow escapes and true love. Welcome to the League of The Scarlet Pimpernel!
As the producers of the Broadway production, we have joined the League one by one over a period of 10 years, attracted by the Baroness Orczy’s inspiring and eminently theatrical story, the unforgettable characters and, especially, Frank Wildhorn’s music, later blended with Nan Knighton’s lyrics and book. It’s been a long road, fraught with enough obstacles and cliffhangers to defy even the most reckless adventurer. And yet, here we are, happy to share our production with you.
To begin in the time honored fashion, Once Upon a Time (in 1987 to be exact), James M. Nederlander, chairman of the Nederlander theatrical empire, decided to produce a musical version of The Scarlet Pimpernel. The famous story had been adapted into plays, movies, mini-series and cartoons, but never successfully a musical. Yet. With executive producer Kathleen Raitt, Nederlander began looking for a composer and lyricist to bring the Pimpernel to life.
Over the next several years, they auditioned a series of bookwriters, composers, lyricists and directors. All were creative, brilliant, inventive, but none were “right” – that elusive, instinctive quality that immediately bonds an artists to a project. It wasn’t until Nederlander brought Frank Wildhorn from L.A., sat him down in Raitt’s office and said, “Take care of the kid. See that he writes Pimpernel,” that the sails of our musical really took the wind.
With roots in the popular music industry (he wrote songs for such artists as Whitney Houston, Kenny Rogers, The Mood Blues and Trisha Yearwood), Wildhorn dreamed of reconnecting popular music with musical theatre, as it was in the days of the Tin Pan Alley poets. Being something of a trailblazer himself, he identified immediately with the romantic adventurous emotions of The Scarlet Pimpernel.
After working with several lyricists, Frank brought in an unknown lyricist and poet, Nan Knighton, who put some of her words to Frank’s melodies on spec. Once her lyrics were heard, those who had asked “Who is she?” now demanded “Hire her!” Wildhorn’s lush melodies now became full-fledged songs, and the story at last became clear.
In 1991 a concept album was produced with a hit, You Are My Home, sung by Linda Eder and Peabo Bryson. It was a rare thing: a top-40 song expressing love, but not between lovers, but between a brother and sister, the characters Armand and Marguerite from The Scarlet Pimpernel. This was the essence of Wildhorn’s dream: to write songs that told a story within a show, but also transcended the musical to work as popular music. Like his other Broadway hit, Jekyll & Hyde, The Scarlet Pimpernel was a real collaboration between the music industry and the theater business.
It was this album that helped bring the rest of us on board. Nederlander had to drop the project, so Kathleen Raitt took up the baton. Kathleen shanghaied the notoriously busy Pierre Cosette, the producer of the Grammy Awards and The Will Rogers Follies, asking him over for cocktails and telling him, “We’re not going to dinner until you read the script and listen to the score.” Whether out of hunger or curiosity, Pierre did as he told and fell in love with the Pimpernel.
Pierre and Kathleen produced two stage readings and began to talk with potential directors. Simultaneously, Pierre sent a script and tape to his friend, Bill Haber, former head of talent at William Morris and co-founder of Creative Artists Agency, as well as special advisor to the President for Save the Children. Bill and his wife are dyed-in-the-wool Francophiles, and Bill gladly made the Pimpernel his Broadway producing debut. With additional support from Ted Forstmann and Hallmark Entertainment, our producing cast was complete.
Now can the hard part – hiring the right creative staff and company. A producer’s job is the gather the best artists for the job and support them in their work. We feel we’ve gathered the finest artists Broadway has to offer. From director Peter Hunt to costume designer Jane Greenwood, from lighting designer Natasha Katz to fight coordinator Richard Sordelet, from set designer Andrew Jackness to our wonderful company of actors, we have all come together to tell you a story – a story of an audacious adventurer, a reckless daredevil who risks his life and love to right a terrible wrong.
The national tour version of the program is a mix of pictures from different versions of the show. Some pages show Douglas Sills with SP4's leading lady Amy Bodnar, some show new leading man Robert Patteri, and a handful have the 4th iteration of Chauvelin William Paul Michals. The rest show stills from SP1, 2 and 3. A wonderful mix, but a confusing one for me to label so forgive me any inaccuracies.
Also, the cover is the same as 2 + 3 and the back is the same as 3 so I didn't add them.
Articles
The Hidden Hero
Baroness Orczy - The Creator of The Scarlet Pimpernel
I had never seen any pictures for the 3rd version of the musical with Ron Bohmer, Carolee Carmello, and Marc Kudisch so this was so fun to flip through! (The cover is the same as the previous, so I left it off to keep to tumblr's 30 picture rule)
Articles
The Hidden Hero
Baroness Orczy - The Creator of The Scarlet Pimpernel
The pictures in this one make me swoon haha, here we have the program book for Douglas Sills, Rachel York, and Rex Smith in the 2nd version of the musical.
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I have managed to get my hands on all 4 versions of the musical's souvenir program and went through and took pictures of each and every page to compare them! All the articles I'll write up and link to in separate posts.
Articles
Seduced by the Scarlet Pimpernel - A Letter from the Producers
The Hidden Hero
Other Programs!
SP2 Program
SP3 Program
SP4 Program
Amy Bodnar Scarlet Pimpernel (2000) Interview by Nancy Rosati
The Scarlet Pimpernel Masterlist
Amy played Marguerite during the National Tour of The Scarlet Pimpernel.
Wayback Machine link is here, but full interview is below the cut!
I interviewed Amy very early in her run as Marguerite at the Shubert Theatre in New Haven, Connecticut. By the time I met her, she had only played the role four times.
NR: I read in your bio that you grew up in Pittsburgh?
AB: I did! Yes. My family's still there. My dad and my mom are still there. I love Pittsburgh. I can't wait to play there.
NR: Is the tour going to Pittsburgh? I can't remember.
AB: The tour's going there in October. I'm sure my mother and dad have already booked buses full of people. (laughs)
NR: Oh, that will be so much fun! What a wonderful thing.
AB: It is. It's really great because they've always been so incredibly supportive of me and come out to see me wherever I've been. So now I get to come to them and they don't have to worry. My sister's coming tonight. She's not coming to the show till tomorrow, but she's going to be here tonight and through Tuesday, so that's also good.
NR: That's great. I understand you have ballet training?
AB: I do. I was a professional ballet dancer for ten years.
NR: Ten years!
AB: Yeah, that was my first lifetime. (laughs)
NR: Oh, I see. So you didn't originally want to go into acting? You just wanted to be a dancer?
AB: Well, from the time I was eleven years old, I thought this is what I want to do. I want to be a professional ballet dancer, and put my life around that. And that's what I did. But that world is really, really something. It's unlike any other world.
NR: In what way? I don't know much about it.
AB: It's just very difficult. Of all the art forms, I think it's probably the most demanding from a young age, it really is. It's not just about what talent you have or what ability you have - it's what you look like and dedication to the nth degree. But even with all of that...I'm sure you've heard other people who dance talk about it. It's an incredible thing because it puts focus into your life like no other art form could do. So it makes it easier when you do decide to do something else, you're really ready for it.
NR: That's great. Did you sing during that time as well?
AB: Well I grew up... my dad's a United Methodist minister and I grew up singing in church all the time. That's where I started.
NR: I see. I believe Ragtime was your Broadway debut?
AB: That's right.
NR: That must have been incredible.
AB: It was amazing! And I got to do that during the Tony time which was absolutely fantastic. I was there with the original cast.
NR: What a great experience.
AB: Actually, I think I got the best of all possible worlds with that production because I was in the original L.A. company and then two days after the L.A. company closed, they brought me to New York to be part of the original Broadway company. A month or so after that, we were at the Tony's.
NR: What a great experience! A lifetime of education in one show.
AB: Oh my gosh, I can't even tell you. I mean, just to be around those people and to see those performers every night. To watch Marin (Mazzie) and Brian (Stokes Mitchell) and Audra (McDonald) every single night and see them just turning it out every night - that was incredible.
NR: And you got to play Evelyn sometimes?
AB: Yeah, that was great.
NR: That's really good. So what's your favorite role you've played so far? Do you have one?
AB: Gosh...you know this sounds so corny, but it's Marguerite because I've never done anything like this and I think any actress that would play this role would say that it's fantastic! It has everything in it from getting married to having a sword fight, so how could it not be?
NR: That's true. Is there a role you haven't done yet, that you would love to do?
AB: To be honest, I've been so blessed and fortunate to get this part. I'm so into this right now that I can't even think about the future. This is my present and my future and I'm really excited about just being a part of this. It just consumes me right now. Maybe a year down the road I'll be able to think about that, but it's just such a discovery at this moment. Every performance I learn something new about myself and I learn something new about the character, about the other people in the play. I intend to just explore this for awhile.
NR: I can understand that. It's a very rich character.
NR: Can you tell me about the Canadian tour you did?
AB: Yes. I did Sunset Boulevard.
NR: How did you like life on the road?
AB: I have to say that this is going to be my first true taste of life on the road. What I just did - Martin Guerre - was probably more of a tour than anything that I've done. Sunset was planted in Toronto for a year and then it took three months off because that set was so massive that it took three months to move the set from Toronto to Vancouver. We had three months off, we were in Vancouver for five months, and then it closed. I call it a "Canadian tour," because (laughing) it went to two Canadian cities, but really we were sitting down. That production was too big to move. In fact, I think part of the problem with the national tour that went out in the US was that it cost them so much to move the set from place to place.
I loved Canada, and I loved that show. I made a lot of friendships that I think will last for a lifetime, and that's the most important thing I think about being on the road.
NR: How do you think you're going to do on this tour? Did you bring something from home to make yourself feel more comfortable?
AB: Well, already I feel good. Everybody in this cast is so tremendous. I went over to the laundromat today and it just so happened that four other people were at the laundromat. We were just talking about what the dynamic of the group is, and how incredible it is. It's a very great group of people, very generous, very mature. It's not a cast that's going to go out and be crazy, but we do like to have fun. We're all sort of at similar places in our lives and this means a lot to us for a lot of different reasons.
NR: How about when you go to a different house, as you did with Martin Guerre? Is it hard to adjust? Are the sets pretty much the same even though they're on a different stage?
AB: I guess we'll see with this. I don't want to say we're concerned, but one thing we're all thinking about right now is that this house is wonderful. It's big enough but it's also intimate. The shows plays so beautifully here and the response we've gotten has been wonderful. I just came from the Kennedy Center doing Martin Guerre. It's fantastic, the energy is great like this...the people who have been on that stage and what you feel, the same way that you do here...except it's HUGE. It's gigantic, so I think there's probably a bit of a thought about how those big houses are going to receive this show.
NR: Not only that, but I know Douglas (Sills) has very tightly timed entrances.
AB: Absolutely. I'm sure that will all change.
NR: If he, or whoever is playing Percy at the time, has a much larger distance to travel there will be a problem.
AB: Right. That will all have to adapt to each space.
NR: But you don't get a lot of time in the house before you start, do you?
AB: No. Even the Ordway, our next theater...I've seen a show there and that's a larger theater than this so I'm sure it will change at the Ordway.
NR: How about the audiences? Do different cities react differently?
AB: Oh, absolutely. That's something that I've noticed with all the different shows that I've been with. They're just so generous here in New Haven. It's been incredible. I think some of the cities where we'll find a different kind of response are probably cities like DC and L.A. and cities that are maybe a little bit larger. Also, when the venue is larger it seems like there's less of a response because they're more separated from us. The distance is a little greater. But, I have to say that of any show that I've done, I think this show will play so incredibly well regionally. I really, really do. I wouldn't say that if I didn't feel it was true.
NR: I agree, but then I'm very prejudiced. (laughs)
AB: I know for a fact in Minneapolis/St. Paul, those audiences are incredibly generous. They loved Martin Guerre. They were on their feet every night. I fully expect them to be on their feet every night for Pimpernel. Something else it seems that The Pimpernel inspires and other shows that I've been with have not, is just an incredible fan base. They're so loyal.
NR: I was going to ask you if you knew anything about that before you came here. First of all, how much did you know about the show before you came?
AB: Well, I've seen all three versions and yes, I know that there are very, very generous fans. It seems that it's the (Frank) Wildhorn shows that just inspire such a following. They really find an audience.
NR: That's true, but what's interesting is that each show brings in very different groups of fans. The shows are very different and they each seem to attract their own group of fans. So, you had heard about them in advance?
AB: Oh, yes, and I think it's inspiring. It's wonderful to have people that really love to see the show and cheer for us. They're like family.
NR: What has your reaction been to them so far? What have your experiences been like?
AB: I haven't had any yet! I don't think they know who I am. I think I look quite different without the "gear."
NR: Have you gone out the back door?
AB: I have.
NR: You're right then. They don't know who you are. A few people told me that they didn't see you so they assumed you went out the front door. Stop for a few minutes tonight.
AB: (laughing) Oh, no, it's OK. It's all right.
NR: Seriously, people were hoping to meet you, if that's OK with you.
AB: Of course it's OK with me. That's so sweet.
NR: I'll stop you tonight and point you out. I'm surprised Douglas hasn't done that yet. He loves doing that.
AB: No he hasn't. I think I snuck by him too. So, you're a big fan of the show?
NR: Yes, I love this show.
AB: What do you think of our new ending?
NR: I haven't seen it yet! I live pretty far from here and I haven't been able to see it yet. I'm going to see it tonight for the first time. You and William (Paul Michals) are the first two people I've ever interviewed without seeing you perform first.
AB: Well, good. (big smile) So I'll know that somebody's out there. Excellent.
NR: Tell me about your version of Marguerite. How do you describe her?
AB: As I said, it's a wonderful character. It's so well written. I can't say enough about Nan Knighton. So many characters, (I can't even just say female characters,) but characters in musicals are not thoroughly explored. You don't see a journey from beginning to end with those characters, but I think with Marguerite you really do. You see every element of her. You see her when she's at her most joyous and happiest at her wedding, and a very emotional sad moment in the beginning when she's actually leaving La Comedie Francaise and leaving her home, leaving France. That's emotional. Then, when she's completely distraught at the end when she truly believes that her husband's dead and that she was the cause of it. We see her very frightened and nervous by everything that Chauvelin has done to her and is doing to her with the blackmail, but then we also see her very strong and grounded. It's incredible. I have such an incredible role to play. I guess if I were to describe what I'm trying to do with Marguerite (and I'm sure it will take me awhile to do it all), it is to bring out all of those aspects of her. She's a very, very complex character.
NR: Yes, she is. What have rehearsals been like?
AB: Fantastic. Absolutely amazing. Bobby (Longbottom) is amazing to work with. I really relate to his sensibility because he also comes from a dance background. The way that he discusses things is so particular and he knows exactly what he wants for everything. I relate to that and I love that. I love the detail. So many directors are very lax about detail. They leave it to you to fill in all the blanks. He allows us room. I'm not saying he's not open for suggestions, but he knows exactly what he wants to see and I enjoy that. I like working with somebody like that.
NR: I hear that Douglas is allowed to ad lib again. Does that make you nervous?
AB: Oh, it's fantastic! Are you kidding? The show is different eight times a week. What could be duller than...a question you get in interviews all the time is "How can you do this eight times a week without getting bored?" Well, I'll tell you how - right next door. (indicating Douglas' dressing room.) It's never the same twice.
NR: Well, you probably won't be the target, so I guess you'll be all right. Do you break up?
AB: There are certain things that he does that I have told him, "If you do that, I will laugh."
NR: (laughing) Oh, that was a mistake! I'm sure you've now given him ideas.
AB: (laughing) There is no question about it. There are certain things that he does that will tear me apart and he knows that they make me laugh. But he's just so fantastic to work with. And William too. The fact that William and I started out in the same place and that we're discovering this together is also amazing. I think it's a big step for both of us to be playing these roles.
NR: That's wonderful. Let's see, we've talked about the League, and we've also talked about what you want to do next, which is this.
AB: I know it sounds so silly, but I'm so involved in this right now that there's absolutely no way I can think about what is next. We just started. This is our first venue. I'll tell you, what I'm looking forward to most is getting out to Los Angeles. It is such an important city in the entertainment business and it's never seen this production before, so it's sort of like a re-opening for The Scarlet Pimpernel and it could give it a whole new energy and bring a whole new life to it.
NR: It's a wonderful thing, and I'm very happy about that, especially since it closed in New York. At least this way a lot of people are going to see what we took for granted in New York.
AB: You know, it's so amazing that the show just continued on through three versions. I think it's a complete testimony to the fans who love the show so much. Even though I know everybody was so upset that it closed, they should think about how much they had to do with it staying open.
NR: Absolutely. In reality, it should have closed in late '97 or early '98.
AB: So, it was really you guys that made it...
NR: ...and the producers. And Nan.
AB: And Douglas, who was such a blessing to this production.
NR: Well...welcome to the show!
AB: Thank you.
NR: I hope you have a wonderful stay. It's a great group - on stage and off.
AB: Oh, great. I hope you enjoy it tonight.
NR: Yes, I'm looking forward to it. It seems that I bought these tickets so long ago. Thank you.
AB: You're welcome.
As you can tell, Amy is very excited to be a part of this first national tour of The Scarlet Pimpernel and her enthusiasm is very contagious. I loved the way she described the complexities of Marguerite to me and it will be fascinating to see how her character develops over the next several months. SP4 is once again very different from the former versions, which will give Amy an opportunity to create something all her own, without feeling as if former Marguerites are looking over her shoulder. I wish her the very best during this exciting chapter in her life.
Robert Patteri Scarlet Pimpernel (2000) Interview by Nancy Rosati
The Scarlet Pimpernel Masterlist
Robert played Percy during the second part of the national tour of the show, taking over from Douglas who had returned to the role only briefly.
Link to it on the Wayback Machine here, but full interview is below the cut!
I'm so glad I was given a chance to meet Robert. He was announced as the replacement Percy for the National Tour a very short time before my scheduled trip to Los Angeles but he graciously agreed to be interviewed by me. At the time I met him he had barely settled in with rehearsals so he was only beginning his journey with the character. However, it didn't take long for Robert and me to get to know each other. He is definitely not shy and within minutes of being introduced to me, he was joking and teasing and having a great time. We spent a lot of time laughing during this interview!
NR: OK - really dumb question to start off with. Do you prefer to be called Robert or Bob?
RP: Robert is fine. Growing up it was Rob. Dad's Bob. It's just one of those dumb things. If you called me Robert in my home town in Michigan, all of my friends would say, "Robert? Who's that? You mean Rob."
NR: You grew up in Michigan? Did you grow up near Douglas (Sills)?
RP: Yeah. Not too far away.
NR: Did you know each other?
RP: No, we didn't. He grew up in Franklin Village and I grew up in West Bloomfield, so it's actually not too far away. It's probably about five or ten miles away. Doug went to the University of Michigan and I went to Michigan State. He went to ACT and I went to the Asolo which are very similar programs and they're both MFA (Master of Fine Arts) programs that are attached to professional training.
NR: Does that mean you just met now?
RP: We actually did - yeah. We have several friends in common but we had never met until he came up to me a week and a half ago when I first came to see the show and he gave me a big hug. He's a sweetheart - a very nice man.
NR: That's great. So, when did you decide you wanted to be a performer?
RP: (old man voice) Ah - way back in 1770. (normal voice) My dad wanted to be a theater major and he did it in college. His parents told him he was crazy. My sister likes it and my dad has the bug in him, so it's sort of in the family. When I was in high school, Mom and Dad encouraged me to sing with my sister in the choir, but I was a football/baseball/basketball player so of course I laughed that in the face - for about nine months until I ended up singing in the choir! Then the teacher plucked me out and gave me the lead in South Pacific. (laughing) So, I did Emile deBeque at seventeen years old, throwing the gray in the hair. I did that in high school and then when I went to college, I went to play baseball and football.
NR: That's what you went there for?
RP: Yeah. On a fluke I auditioned for West Side Story and it was quite comical because athletes think, "I'm agile. I can dance" and it's just the most humiliating thing in the world when they ask you to put two feet in front of each other. (laughs) You all of sudden start walking like Monty Python's funny walks, just trying to figure out how to do this. I thought, "No way are they going to cast me in this show" because I was in a major university and these guys were kicking their legs and I certainly wasn't going to get a lead with all of these seniors and grad students. Three weeks later, by a fluke, I walked past the theater department and found that I was the only one who hadn't signed in. They had cast me as Snowboy in West Side Story. I just freaked out. I fell in love with it and changed to a Musical Theater major. I was the first Musical Theater major for Michigan State University. They had a Music and a Theater department, but they hadn't put it together for Musical Theater. I was the first one who started that program. It was just a strange course of events.
NR: You didn't grow up watching theater?
RP: No.
NR: You never had an interest at all?
RP: I thought it was fascinating but I was an athlete. I was going to be a professional baseball player. My sister was the performer so I did watch my sister's plays, and my dad is very much a ham, and he's definitely a great spokesperson. He does a lot of public speaking for business. I think I had it in me. I was a clown myself and when I was younger I always wanted to be the first one to stand up and read in front of the class. I just got the bug when I started doing it.
NR: Hmm. I was going to ask you if a specific actor inspired you, but I guess not.
RP: Well, I think we all have our personal favorites, and people who are just inspiring role models. Those are always things that sort of stick out in your head. My father was always a great one for me because I always had the utmost respect for him and his work ethic. I was very fortunate to have parents who were always wonderfully "advice oriented" without pushing. They would always give me the choices. They would say, "This didn't work out, so you have this, this or this." They never said, "You should do this." I think that's really great as a parent. I think it's nice if they guide you and say, "Your strengths are here." They always presented the options which I think was really very nice.
NR: Now, you played Gaston in Beauty and the Beast?
RP: I did.
NR: That seems so different from Percy.
RP: Totally.
NR: Even vocally.
RP: It's completely different.
NR: You must have a very big range.
RP: (big laugh) Well, yes. I'm going to become a tenor with this role. When I was doing Gaston, my voice was (in bass voice) "a little bit lower." It was closer to William's (Paul Michals) voice - a much deeper voice. Just having rehearsed this for a couple of weeks, my voice has gotten up a little bit. Just from doing the (high pitched voice) "Lud, love me. So stunning" You know when you sort of do all that lovely stuff (gives a Percy laugh), you can't help but bring it up a bit.
NR: Are they going to change the keys at all?
RP: "She Was There" will probably come down. We're not sure yet. Maybe in the end, we just might not do the key change, and then in "Into the Fire" we won't do the key change. It's just a half step at the end. Those will be the only two changes.
NR: When I saw that credit, I was surprised because they were two completely different styles of performing.
RP: They are. They're completely different. I'm fortunate lookwise because I can do a variety of different things, and I was also twenty pounds heavier when I did Gaston. I was very big and sort of in my "athletic, football mode," but I've dropped weight since then. Now I'm sort of a thinner me - you know, getting into the "Percy thing."
NR: Did you work with William in Beauty and the Beast?
RP: No. Actually we just missed each other because he was standing by in Toronto and I came in to do Gaston in Toronto just after he left. But he knows my wife. They worked together. I met my wife in Beauty and the Beast in Toronto. I plucked her out of Canada.
NR: Where is she while you're on this tour?
RP: She's going to come with me until October and then she's going to go live with my folks because she's three months pregnant right now so we're going to have a little bambino in December.
NR: How long are you committed for this?
RP: Until April.
NR: Wow. Do you get time off to see the baby?
RP: Yeah. They're going to let me off when it's born. But, it's part of the thing that you never know what's going to happen in this business. It's the irony of trying to prepare for these things. As we said, "OK, we're ready to have kids" we weren't sure if we were going to be in Los Angeles or New York. My place was out here (L.A.) but I had just finished doing a show in Florida that was going to run for a year and it closed early.
NR: The show was Ben-Hur, right? I heard about that.
RP: Yeah, it closed early and so we went to New York and we weren't sure what we were doing and we just said "Well maybe we should wait on this" and then thought "You know what? God always takes care of you when you have kids." He just does - He provides. So you've just got to have faith and say there's never a right time. In life today there's never a right time. But taking a step further, in this business, there's just never a right time. Because even when you're working it's not the right time or when you're not working you're thinking, "I'm unemployed" So you just have to go ahead and live life.
NR: Did you know anything about this show and the history of it?
RP: Uh-huh
NR: You did? Have you seen any other versions?
RP: I saw 2.0 in 1998. And you know what? I went in with low expectations just because of what everybody said. I loved it! I had the time of my life. I get so tired of the theatrical critics - you know - everything has to be Arthur Miller or The Crucible or whatever. Mamet or Shaw or Les Miz. It's gotta be dark. Certain things are just meant for entertaining. And this show... you just watch the audience. It's the same sort of thing that happened with Beauty and the Beast. The critics will trash it but the audiences will walk away and they'll love it. It's a "feel good show." It's a ton of fun. The audience just rolls over themselves watching Doug have a blast up there. He's so fantastic with breaking that fourth wall.
NR: That's an interesting thing because he's historic in this role.
RP: Oh, totally.
NR: Now you're about to replace him.
RP: Yeah, and I'll never be able to fill those shoes. You can't even compare. Doug's known for doing it so I just have to go in and do what I do best. The essence of me is completely different than Doug. But he has created such a brilliant model that I'd be silly to fight what he's created.
NR: That's a good point.
RP: I don't want to do that. I have to sort of fill in where he's left off. Once I get in the show and I'm in it for awhile, I'm sure I will create my own things and things will grow. But I can't do that right now because I don't have the other cast with me. I don't have Amy (Bodnar) and William working with me every single day for eight hours a day for six weeks of rehearsals where you create those. I'm walking into a show where there are all of those beats and all of those moments, and they are inherently going to be a little different because of the essence of me and how I do things. I've got to stick pretty close to what's there right now.
NR: How are they working that with you? Do they work with you when they can?
RP: This is the first day I worked with William and Amy, but I've worked with understudies up to this point.
NR: Are you understudying at all, or is your first appearance going to be in Nashville?
RP: Nashville is the first time.
NR: Did you read any of the books?
RP: I haven't had time to yet. I definitely will. I definitely want to and it's one of those things that I would love to have done, but getting thrown into this role is just monumental. It's a monumental role if you're doing something like this that's dramatic, but if you throw in the comedy aspect of it too, and there's just so much time that you have to work with playing around with all of that.
NR: Yeah, it's huge. And you just found out about this recently, didn't you?
RP: A week and a half ago.
NR: It just so happens that this is the weekend I was planning to be here in L.A. I feel badly doing this to you so early!
RP: Oh, no, it's fine.
NR: Had you done any fencing before?
RP: Oh yeah, I've done a lot of stage combat. I've done a lot of Shakespeare, so whenever you're doing Shakespeare you know there's going to be some swordplay.
NR: That's right. You're sure there will be fencing and tights!
RP: (laughs) That's right - fencing or broadswords, and tights.
NR: Again, I know it's early, but can you give me some early glimpses into the character from your point of view?
RP: Early glimpses?
NR: Yeah. Can you describe your idea of Percy? (And I know it's early.)
RP: Well, it's a dream because it's that childhood hero that you always want to play, and the joy of getting to play a character who is literally like the fly on the wall. You're assuming another personality which allows you a wall and a distance from everyone else around you. You're not actually letting them into your thought process. It's a dual edge because it's very painful, but it's also a wonderful thing to be able to play with that. It's a character who has so many facets, and can manipulate so much, and can do it all in the name of injustice, which is the one thing that the audience identifies with. Everybody wants to be that super-hero who is able to go out and fight for a cause. In today's day and age, or any day and age, everybody's got their cause that they believe in and that's one thing that is a great core for me, because I just can't stand injustice in the world. I'm talking about Robert Patteri - race, creed, all the way down to disrespect of elderly people, to people littering or throwing a cigarette butt on the street. It just tortures me and I get into confrontations. I do it very nicely. I'll just walk up to someone and say, "Would you please not do that?"
NR: Really?
RP: (seeing my incredulous look and laughing) Watch - you're probably one of those people that throws a butt on the street!
NR: (laughing) No, not at all! I totally agree with you! I want to go up to people and say, "Excuse me, but who do you think is going to pick that up?" But I DON'T! I may think it but I don't say anything. (laughs)
RP: So, to be able to play someone who gets to fulfill that part of all of us that wants to go out and be able to live out their dream. Most of us in life are just not pushed into a corner far enough to be able to do that. And the people who are pushed into a corner far enough are the people who do wind up doing that - the people who start cancer research, a new foundation or who do something extraordinary. Their circumstances in life push them into a corner so far that they have two choices - to let it consume them or to take it to the next step and fight for that. That's what makes theater so great. You have two and a half hours to tell the most interesting thing, and what can be more interesting than someone who's had their whole world pulled out from underneath them?
NR: What do you think is going to be the most fun to do? I know you've only seen it, but haven't really had a chance to do it yet. What are you looking forward to?
RP: (laughs) I don't know. I'm sure that when I step onto the stage it's going to all surprise me. I'm sure the things that I think will be fun just might throw me. I don't know. The fop obviously is a joy, so that would be the obvious thing to go to - the drawing room, "The Creation of Man." It's one of those rare times when you're allowed to go as far as you want to, which doesn't really happen that often.
NR: (laughing) That's for sure!
RP: Usually you tell the director, "I'm going to give you everything and you pull me in." (laughing) I'm sure Bobby (Longbottom) still will.
NR: Hmmm, interesting. Are we going to see any ad libs from you at some point?
RP: Well, you know.... (leaning into the tape recorder) "I have no comment."
NR: (laughing) Is that because you're not allowed to have a comment?
RP: Yeah. I think I have to stick pretty close to what's written there right now.
NR: Ah, I see. That was a "special dispensation" for Douglas?
RP: Yeah, I have to stick pretty close to what's written there. It's a tough thing, boy, because watching Doug...it is hard. We did the drawing room scene today and my rhythms get thrown because there are places when he'll just throw things in and I just have to go with what's written in the book, but it's strange because I'm used to hearing what he's doing.
NR: Are you just used to hearing him do it, or are you tempted because that's what you want to do?
RP: It would be both because there is so much room to have fun, but you have to stick to what an author has written on the page.
NR: (laughing) ...or help rewrite it as Douglas did in the first version!
RP: Exactly.... um .... "to be continued."
NR: Is there any part that's making you nervous?
RP: (long pause) "To be continued."
NR: (laughs) Oh, come on.
RP: No, nothing makes me nervous performance-wise. The only thing is just learning the pacing of the show.
NR: And the silly things like changing on the boat.
RP: Yeah, and vocally. I've done huge vocal demanding shows like the Yeston-Kopit Phantom. There are seven huge laments and big songs. Ben-Hur is like living the life of Job and there are ten songs, but this one is different because of the vocality I have to use. It's one thing if I'm using my own voice and singing in my own timbre but because you're playing one character here and (using Grappin voice) another there, it's going to be getting used to pacing that.
NR: That's a good point doing eight shows a week.
RP: This show definitely would cry for an alternate.
NR: Douglas did something like that in SP2. It started with Nat Chandler and then Bryan Batt took over. Douglas only had to do six shows a week. Sometimes he did more, but many weeks he only did six. Bryan did a lot of matinees, because that was exactly it. It's very demanding vocally.
What do you know about the League? Are you ready for the fans?
RP: I've heard. That's part of the price you pay when you're in this business.
NR: (laughing) Well, they're not a bad thing!
RP: No, no. But that's part of what comes with doing this stuff. I am not one of those "put-off people." I'm always willing to embrace people who are very supportive. I think it's wonderful, as long as people...and that happens. There are people who do go a little overboard.
NR: Have you done a lot of traveling with tours?
RP: Not with tours. I've been all over the world the last three years so I'm used to traveling a lot, but doing the week or two week thing...I haven't done that long term. I've done ten week tours but most of my stuff has been sort of "leave to go to London," "leave to go to Toronto," "leave to go to South Africa," "leave to go to Florida." I've had to transplant a lot.
NR: That's going to help but a lot of these are one week.
RP: Yeah, and you're traveling on your day off.
NR: That's going to be somewhat draining. I was going to ask you if you're bringing anything with you, but I guess you're bringing your wife.
RP: Yeah. I've got a wife and a tummy.
NR: I guess that answers my question! It's ridiculously early to ask this since you're committed to this for a year, but is there any role you're dying to play down the road?
RP: Well, you know, every actor dies to play Hamlet. I would love to play Hamlet. I really, really would. I've done bits and pieces of it. I did a thing called The Readiness is All in New York and it was a director who put together a piece which was introspective. The audience was participating in the various ways to look at Hamlet, which was very interesting. Three different actors did large portions of the play in different ways so that you could see the different ways to play it. It was great.
I'd love to play Cyrano. I really would love to play Cyrano because of the poetry. It's such a great role. Musically, a role I've always wanted to play but haven't done yet is Billy Bigelow. I love the show and I think it needs such tender care. Because of the abuse issue, it's a really tough, fine line to be able to like the guy and to make him sympathetic. A lot of times you see it and you just hate him, so it's a challenge.
NR: It has gorgeous music.
RP: It does. The music is beautiful. To be able to sing that "Soliloquy" is great.
NR: Well, good luck.
RP: Thank you.
NR: You have a lot of work ahead of you.
RP: Yes I do!
NR: You have a decent amount of time at least. You have about a month.
RP: Yeah, at least it's all under my belt now and now it's a matter of playing.
NR: And what a wonderful opportunity for you.
RP: It's great.
NR: There are not a lot of roles like this.
RP: This is a role of a lifetime. It's a dream. It's a tour de force. You get to play a character who gets to play all these characters on stage. You kind of get to take your "acting suitcase" out and have fun and play. I know the playing will begin for me once I get to perform because the rehearsals are going to be just falling on my can left and right, making a fool of myself, trying to find what works, which is what you have to do. It will be fun once I find the pacing, catch my breath and get past moments when I think, "This is just landing south. When Doug did it, it really got a big laugh!"
NR: Well, you don't want to do that, because it's not going to work.
RP: No I don't, and I won't do that. And you couldn't have a nicer person to replace. He's just so giving and he's so wonderful and so supportive and that's really nice, because I've stepped into shoes before that weren't quite as embracing.
NR: I think in this case he's very happy to see someone else pick it up.
RP: (laughs) Yeah, he did give me a huge hug and he said, "Thank God you're here."
NR: Robert, Thank you so much.
RP: You're welcome.
Robert certainly has his work cut out for him. He's about to begin ten months of touring around the country playing a very demanding role. He will no doubt be compared constantly to his predecessor. He will be away from his family for six months at a most precious time in their lives. He has all of these responsibilities looming over him, but you know what? He couldn't be happier! I think he'll embrace the challenge with abandon and make Percy his own. I wish him wonderful success in his run and I hope that he will receive tremendous support on the road.
William Paul Michals Scarlet Pimpernel (2000) Interview by Nancy Rosati
The Scarlet Pimpernel Masterlist
William played Chauvelin during the national tour of The Scarlet Pimpernel from February of 2000 through April 2001.
Link to the interview on the Wayback Machine is here, but full interview is below the cut!
I interviewed William in New Haven, Connecticut shortly before his fifth performance as Chauvelin. I had not yet seen him perform, so I didn't know what to expect, but I found him to be absolutely charming and delightful. His speaking voice alone has such a rich tone that I knew I was in for a treat the first time he opened his mouth on stage, and I was not disappointed.
NR: Tell me a bit about where you grew up.
WPM: I grew up in New Jersey, in Cranford and in Spring Lake. In Spring Lake, I was a lifeguard on the beach. That was fun. I did community theater down there in the evenings and sat in the lifeguard stand and rowed big wooden row boats and worked out all day long.
NR: Did you go into the city a lot to see theater?
WPM: I did. It's in my family.
NR: Really. How?
WPM: All on my father's side. My grandfather was a semi-professional singer and my father's brother was a leading bass at the Met. Through my uncle's family, I was exposed to a lot of music.
NR: Did you grow up backstage at all?
WPM: No, I didn't really grow up backstage, but all of our holidays were really "singing-oriented." We'd get around the piano and sing Christmas carols, traditional Polish songs (my father's side of the family is Polish), and old concert songs that you don't hear very much now, songs that were sung in the middle of the century.
NR: And you grew up on those?
WPM: Yeah, I did. It wasn't the typical pop music that people would listen to.
NR: You have an opera background also, don't you?
WPM: I do.
NR: Did you have to make a choice at some point and decide what you wanted to do? You seem to do both now.
WPM: I did have to make a choice. I went to Boston University and I studied International Relations, which is basically Political Science. I decided on that because I didn't really know what else I wanted to concentrate in. I thought about going to go into Physics. I didn't really know what I wanted to do.
NR: Did you know that Marc Kudisch was a Poli-Sci major?
WPM: Was he? I'm not surprised. I probably did know that because we worked together for a long time in Beauty and the Beast.
I also did the opera program part time. I studied with the best teachers there. I was pursuing opera after college for awhile, but I found that a singer in his twenties just can't make a living in opera. The work is too sporadic and the voice just hasn't matured and developed, and it was a little frustrating for me. So, at the urging of my then-girlfriend Lisa, who's now my wife, I auditioned for the Paper Mill Playhouse which was right near my home. I started off in their production of Oklahoma! and I've been working ever since.
NR: Do you miss opera at all?
WPM: I do. I definitely do. That kind of discipline, the sound, and the different musical demands...they are higher. They're greater demands than musical theater or pop. I miss the discipline and that artistic aspiration. But it isn't ruled out.
NR: Was Beauty and the Beast your Broadway debut?
WPM: It was.
NR: And you were the Beast?
WPM: My first performance on Broadway was as the Beast. That morning I did The Rosie O'Donnell Show. I had to get up at the crack of dawn and put on the make-up and the costume. All I did was jump on the show and give her a big kiss. I think it was the Listerine charity donation - for every kiss that Rosie got they gave her a thousand dollars for charity. Then I did the matinee and the evening, so it was a long day.
NR: Wow, what a great debut. What was that like?
WPM: It was exciting. The day started out with limousines and being dropped off at Rockefeller Center, then back to the Palace Theatre for the two shows.
NR: How long did that make-up take to put on?
WPM: An hour. It's actually a half hour for the make-up, about ten or fifteen minutes for the facial hair and the wig, and then another fifteen minutes to put on the costume and the body hair.
NR: That must have been tough to act in.
WPM: It was fun. It's a different brand of acting. I consider that I got my "BFA" degree in acting - that's "BFA" for "Big Face Acting." (laughs)
NR: (laughing) I guess subtle didn't cut it.
WPM: There were five latex prosthetics on my face and the fur on top of each of those, not to mention the heavy make-up, the big hump on the back, and the capes and the boots, etc.
NR: So I guess a fencing scene is nothing in comparison.
WPM: It's not much, no. I sweat in the last scene of this show and that's it, whereas as soon as I put on that Beast costume, I'd have the fans on me and the air conditioning blasting.
NR: Did you know anything about this show's history before you auditioned for it?
WPM: I knew some of it. I'd been following it. I'd been in New York for a couple of years after coming back from the Toronto company of Beauty and the Beast. I followed it and I've seen the show grow and shrink and just change. It's been very interesting. I did have a chance to see each incarnation of the show. Chauvelin's music hasn't changed that much.
NR: That's true, and he hasn't changed much, but three very different people have played him in very different ways. Is that challenging to try and find your niche?
WPM: Yeah, it is. I try not to think about the other actors' portrayals too much, but I know each of the actors who have played the role and they're each very strong. If you're an attentive student of acting you can't help but absorb what they do. If I've absorbed good things that I can use to my advantage, that's good, but I've got my own take on the role.
NR: How do you describe your approach to Chauvelin?
WPM: He's a very strong minded man. He's idealistic but misguided. He's fanatical. He believes in the humanist, the enlightened development of man in society. Unfortunately it was coming at a time in France when there was a lot of bitterness and hatred towards the blue bloods and he found that the catharsis for him came from beheading all the royalty. He is a very visceral man. For him, blood and battle and combat and love and passion are very physical, very palpable experiences. He absorbed Rousseau and the other writers at that time in a very literal way - a very physical, as opposed to metaphysical way. He just got involved in that and he was never able to give himself over to the love for Marguerite with his soul and with his heart, as he was able to with his body. In fact, the way I play Chauvelin, it's just about the time of the beginning of the show when Marguerite has a very interested, very eligible lover calling upon her and Chauvelin is aware that Percival Blakeney is interested. Chauvelin is indeed getting up the courage and the wherewithal to make a more lasting commitment to Marguerite, and for me, that starting point serves me very well. The first scene of the show is a very bitter slap in the face to Chauvelin and it really helps to feed his actions throughout the show.
NR: I haven't seen this version yet, but I've heard rumors that Douglas (Sills) has been allowed to ad lib again.
WPM: (rolling eyes) Oh, yes. Oh, yes, to my dismay.
NR: Are you ready for anything?
WPM: I have learned all sorts of techniques, (hopefully they're invisible to the audience) to keep myself from laughing, because he is so funny.
NR: (laughing) Terry (Mann) used to bite the inside of his mouth, probably till it bled.
WPM: I am doing isometrics and thinking about horrible thoughts...whatever I have to do.
NR: Well, he's not going to stop until you laugh.
WPM: You're right. He's going to go and he's going to go...all I can say is, "L.A. look out!" because Douglas is just priming himself now. He's got an even bigger assignment in the show than he did in previous incarnations...
NR: ...which is completely amazing to me.
WPM: He is a magnificent actor and a magnificent singer and just a magnificent soul to have as part of the company. And I have to talk about Amy Bodnar as well because she's so beautifully talented and committed, and she does her own take on the role. She's taken the script and the music and developed a very completely fleshed out wonderful character. The rehearsal period for the show has been very enlightening for all of us.
NR: When did you begin rehearsals?
WPM: We started out in the beginning of January - Douglas, Amy and I.
NR: Douglas had to learn some new things, but he was way ahead of both of you obviously.
WPM: Yeah, but again, he's got a lot of words and a lot of business, so it was a privilege for all of us to have that time together and develop the show.
NR: Is he serious in rehearsal?
WPM: Oh, he is. He's a very serious actor. Don't confuse a comedian with not being serious about his trade, because he really is in all ways. He's so generous on stage and off. It gives a lot to the show.
NR: Had you heard anything about the League before?
WPM: Oh, yeah. I was warned and told to enjoy them and to make the most of it.
NR: So far your experience has been good?
WPM: Very good. It's wonderful to have my family be able to bring up the website and know the latest.
NR: That's great. Of course this interview will be up there, and then we even have an Alumni page now, so at some point when you leave the show and you do anything else, let me know and I'll post the information. Many of us have gone to see other people perform in different shows after they've left the cast. It's a very supportive group.
WPM: That's great and sometimes I'm so hair-brained when I'm on the road that my family is better off getting information from the computer than from me.
NR: You've traveled before, right?
WPM: I have, yes.
NR: You have a wife and kids. That must be so hard on all of you.
WPM: Having a wife and kids at home makes traveling pretty bittersweet. It's exciting to be doing a new show and to be getting the kind of feedback that this show gets, but my son is three and a half and my daughter is one and a half, and not to belittle the fact that I miss my wife, but every day and every week brings so many new developments in my children that just a word from them, just an inflection that changes in their voice....
NR: Are they going to be able to see you on this tour?
WPM: Yeah. They've been able to visit me here in New Haven and I'll be going home on every day off. They'll be coming to San Francisco and then out to L.A.
NR: How do you prepare yourself mentally for such a long trip?
WPM: Take it day by day. I bring some projects that I want to work on, some songs that I want to polish. We have a very talented orchestra traveling with us so maybe I can put together a cabaret show or benefit. I bring things to read. There's plenty to do. You know, being a professional and being a father and a husband doesn't end just because I'm not in Manhattan with my family.
NR: Wherever you do your cabaret, let us know, because there are fans all over the country and they will be interested.
WPM: Really? There are fans for The Scarlet Pimpernel all over the country?
NR: Absolutely.
WPM: Even though we haven't played all over the country?
NR: Absolutely. Every city you go to, there will be people at the stage door who know cast members. That's what the Internet has done.
How long are you going to be with the show? Do you know yet?
WPM: Right now I expect to be here at least through Chicago, which is the end of August, possibly further. It will depend on how long I can be away from my family and other opportunities.
NR: If you could pick a dream job, what would it be?
WPM: Hmm, a dream job would give me twelve hours a day with my family, three hours a day in acting and singing coaching, maybe an hour or an hour and a half every couple days to perform songs and that's enough for me.
NR: That sounds good to me. Is there any role you're dying to play?
WPM: I'd love to play a Sweeney. I have to say that. I would just love the chance to play Sweeney Todd sometime down the road. I've got time, but that's definitely one role that comes to the top of my mind when I think of what I'd like to play. But there are new roles being written. Frank Wildhorn is in the midst of writing new pieces and there's no telling what's going to pop up on the horizon. I just want to work on things that are a challenge and that allow me to use my tools to the best and make a comfortable life for me and my family. If you can put all that together with what you love to do, then you're very lucky.
NR: That's for sure. Thank you so much.
WPM: Thank you.
I was very impressed with William's interpretation as Chauvelin and feel he is a wonderful asset to the company. He seems very much at home with the League members and is enjoying his time at the stage door. He enjoys his stage time too, although I think he will be able to relax even more once he gets over the "terror" of being the primary target of Douglas' ad libs!
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Marc Kudisch Scarlet Pimpernel (1999) Interview by Nancy Rosati
The Scarlet Pimpernel Masterlist
Chauvelin! Oh, to get all 4 (musical) Chauvelins in one room and ask them about the character, I think that would be fun. They all interpret him so differently, and Marc (Chauvelin during the 3rd run of the show in late 1999) seems to have a very intense and reluctantly romantic vibe to him.
Wayback Machine link is here, but full interview is below the cut!
The first time I saw Marc play Chauvelin, I thought the best word that described his interpretation was intense. Now that I've met him, I think it accurately describes Marc himself, as well as his character. He put a lot of thought into his answers, as you will very quickly realize.
NR: Tell me first about where you grew up.
MK: Fort Lauderdale.
NR: That's quite a ways from here. I notice you're wearing a Yankees hat.
MK: Well, I've lived in New York now for over ten years.
NR: What inspired you to become a performer?
MK: Honestly, I don't know if anything specifically did. I just got into it. I did a play in high school my senior year, so I can say, "I did a play in high school my senior year." In college I was a Poli-Sci major and I took theater as relaxation from doing Poli-Sci. I found that I was spending more and more time in the theater department, and less time in the Political Science department, partly because Poli-Sci was very depressing. I was saying to someone the other night that political theory is based on failure. It's all based on failure. Everything is designed based on when they think it's going to fail. How long will this run until it eventually falls apart? And, will we be out of office by then?
NR: OK, that's an interesting theory.
MK: But it is. Look at all of the programs, whether it be The New Deal, whether it be The Great Society, whether it be Reaganomics, because those were the three last major economic functions that we had in this century. The New Deal worked as long as we were in a depression because it was about rebuilding. Once things were rebuilt, it really didn't work anymore. That's when The Great Society came in. The Great Society was trying to be a check and balance between those that had money and those that didn't. It mostly backfired. Then in the mid-70's, that completely backfired on us. We went into a huge inflation with the gas crisis and the whole deal. That's when The Great Society caught up. Reaganomics came in. Reaganomics was a short term economics that lasted for ten or twelve years. It made everything look really good till Reagan was out of office and then of course we had to deal with the huge deficit that we had from what supply-side economics did to us. I think now we're in a completely different frame of mind due to the "regular schmo." I'm personally a fan of Clinton. I think the economy has done a great deal and I think it's largely due to his efforts. You can say what you think about the man but we don't have a deficit. We are back to manufacturing product. We are a nation of product and we are a nation of paper, and we are a nation of a strong economic backbone that is keeping itself surprisingly in balance.
But it was the failure thing that just made me laugh. I enjoyed that, but that was my favorite part of politics. Theater was something I could really believe in. At three in the morning I was building a set when I should have been studying. At the end of my sophomore year I finally decided to change my major, so that's when I got into theater.
I went to a real small school, which most people went to because it's three blocks off the beach. I was invited because I was in the top ten percentile in the state of Florida and it was the first four-year freshman program so my first semester was basically free. We were invited into it. It was a graduate school before I went there. While I was working for my degree in the Bachelor of Fine Arts, they were trying to figure out what their four-year program was, so my first year and a half, I was doing graduate work. I did graduate work to start with because those were the classes that they already had, and then I had to go back and fill in.
NR: That must have been a little strange.
MK: It was a little strange but they gave me a lot of independent study work because it was a small theater department. I did about twenty productions when I was in school and I directed three. It was that kind of thing where the experience paid off when I moved to New York. I worked for a year professionally in South Florida. I got into the union and I moved to New York, but I had under my belt way more experience than I think most people do when they get out of college, because it was really "hands on." I was very fortunate that I had worked in that atmosphere. So, good colleges, bad colleges, "name" colleges, it's more the experience.
NR: What's your favorite role that you've done so far?
MK: I don't know that I'd say I have a favorite.
NR: Are there some you liked more than others?
MK: I like this. I like this a lot. It's fun. It's a cool character. I think he's interesting. And also I don't have to jump and leap and dive off of everything known to man. Gaston was a great character but he was physically very tough. Bye, Bye Birdie - Conrad's another great character but also difficult physically. This is a great character but vocally demanding. I've been fortunate that the characters that I generally play are very tour de force kind of characters. They have big personalities and when they come on - Boom - they're there! And then they're gone. And then they're there again. Birdie was very much that and Gaston was very much that. George Kittredge in High Society, being more "real" and less heightened than the other characters, was still that kind of personality - very strong. I don't know that I have a particular favorite. I like them all. I've had the good fortune of being able to play a wide variety of very strong personalities.
NR: A lot of them seem to be villains. Is that by design or did it just work out that way?
MK: I think I'm good at understanding what makes those types of characters tick. I think I understand how to make them human, which is generally why I end up doing them. One - because I have a sense of humor and I'm good at comedy. But I understand comedy in the situation of it and not necessarily a "bag of trick" thing. Do you understand what I'm saying?
NR: Not exactly.
MK: There are a lot of people who are "personality" performers less than real actors. They have their "bag of tricks" that they will pull out pretty much in any show and they work. For every different character that I've played, every one of those characters has had humor to it, but the humor has been completely different given the context of the character and the situation in which the character finds itself. Gaston is humorous for different reasons than Chauvelin. Chauvelin is humorous for different reasons than Conrad, or George Kittredge for that matter. Each one of them is a particular kind of person that you can look at and recognize. You wouldn't necessarily empathize...I always end up playing the characters that people recognize, not empathize. Beauty and the Beast - it's the Beast you empathize with. Birdie is a character you recognize. Chauvelin is a character you recognize. It's more Percy or Marguerite that you empathize with.
NR: So, people probably aren't cheering for your character?
MK: Yeah. That's why I generally end up playing villains. Besides, I'm a dark baritone. There are a few people that still write for voices. The baritone used to be the leading man, but it's really become the tenor's role. When you're a baritone, you don't have to work hard for darkness. It's already innate. It's there. You can actually try to be, especially with Chauvelin, as romantic as possible. "Where's The Girl?" to me, is a very romantic song. It's not seductive, it's romantic. It's his version of pain, love, loss. That's what the song is about. "Falcon" to me is very poetic...very poetic.
NR: Poetic?
MK: Oh, absolutely. Read the lyrics. Don't listen to the song. The song is very "hard" because of the drive of the character, but what he says is so intelligent. It's so intelligently written. My favorite lyrics in the whole show are "I wasn't born to walk on water, I wasn't born to sack and slaughter, But on my soul, I wasn't born to stoop to scorn and knuckle under." That's not an idiot. "There was a dream - a dying ember" - all of that. "But I will resurrect that dream, though rivers stream and hills grow steeper." He's the only character in the show that really looks in. He's introspective. He's the only character in the show that you ever really get in his head. No one else really observes their situation and comments on it - not like that. I find "Falcon" to be very poetic.
NR: Hmm, maybe that's the answer to my next question. I was going to ask, "How did you make it your own?" considering that you had Terry (Mann) and Rex (Smith) before you, with two very different interpretations.
MK: It doesn't matter. It never matters who's done it before - NEVER. People will look and they will say, "He took a little bit of what this one did, he took a little bit of that one." Well, you'll recognize a little something similar, but it doesn't matter if they've done it ten thousand times or if I'm the first guy to do it. The way I approach a character is the same in any given situation. Plus, we had a full rehearsal process with this. I had very strong opinions about the character. I originally auditioned for it.
NR: Really? I didn't know that. For the first version or the second?
MK: The first one. I was requested in for the audition, and I went in the same day that Terry went in. I think I was in right before or after Terry. They had a different idea of the role at the time - obviously. Terry and I are incredibly different people. They did Terry and then they did Rex, and I think they just wanted to rethink the approach to the character of Chauvelin. I always approach a character from here (indicating his head.) To me, it's always about "why?" It's always the "why." Chauvelin's the villain - why? Chauvelin's evil - why? (If you want to call it evil. I don't call it evil.) It's always the "why." That's the important thing, because the minute that you get the "why," you now are getting that person's individual personality.
NR: Why is Chauvelin the way he is?
MK: Oh, come on. Look at him.
NR: I want to hear your version.
MK: He's lower class. There's no way ever he would ever be able to be in the position that he's in in any other situation than military. Consider it. Even Bobby (Longbottom) said the same thing. Always we draw a comparison to Hitler. Not to say that he's a Hitler, but here's a very bright man that's very lower class, that given a very unique situation, is able to use his charisma and his wit - his particular wit - and his driving ambition to raise himself to a status that he would not usually get to. Chauvelin is not a creature of society. Chauvelin is a creature of action. He's a creature of ambition. He's a Richard the Third. He was not built for times of peace. He believes in the French Revolution because he rationalizes that it gives him a great stature in that society.
At the same time, he's not one who likes to lose things because he never really had them to begin with. Marguerite is the closest thing he's ever had to love, so it's a very obsessive, visceral kind of thing. She's a real partner for him. She's got as much guts and fire as he does and he likes that. He doesn't want a woman that's just going to be "there." He wants someone that is going to fight. He likes the challenge. He's always up for the challenge. That's what makes him interesting to me. He's very desperate. He's very ripped by her. The fact that she would actually leave France...he felt the whole time that she was fighting next to him, that she was into it, that she was with it, that she understood it. Now she's going off with this...It's what makes it easy for me to understand why he misses Percy all the time because that's not the way they fought, not in this time period. Guys walked out in the middle of a field. They looked at each other head on and the better of the fighters was the one that was still standing - period. You didn't hide in the bushes. You didn't hide in a costume, or behind a different personality. You didn't. That was not a hero. Not according to Chauvelin, not according to the period. It was a very avant garde idea to disguise in another personality. Not such an old idea - Hamlet does it, then later, into the 30's and 40's, Batman, Superman. The idea of disguising oneself, but really the idea of Percy was a very original idea, which is why at the end of the show when we're fighting, and I say, "So, a hero" - there he is - finally. He's not disguised. In all his glory, there's the man I've been looking for. That's why there's humor in the situation because you see the frustration of him trying to find something that's right under his nose. It's there the whole time. It doesn't make him stupid though. That was very important to me. Chauvelin is not an idiot. He's just so aggressively trying to find...like you know, "Where the hell are my keys?" when they're in your hand. But you're so intent on finding them that you're not stopping to observe for a minute that they're in your hand. That's the kind of character he is...to me. He's driven and his humongous flaw is Marguerite.
NR: Let's talk about Marc now. You've got all these other projects going on at the same time. You have all these other shows, the Toyota commercial, all this stuff. Can you tell me a little bit about them? Let's start with Thoroughly Modern Millie.
MK: We just finished doing the workshop. It's supposed to go into production this coming fall. Millie starts in the summer and then it comes in in the fall.
NR: Do you think you're going to be doing that?
MK: Yeah. I have The Wild Party first.
NR: When is that?
MK: January. It starts in January and opens in the spring. I don't know how commercial it's going to be. It doesn't matter. I want to do it because it is what it is.
NR: You're just doing that for a short time and then you're going to jump into Millie?
MK: Yeah, as it stands now. They've already offered me Millie. It's that thing of, "Hey, I've got two jobs." Once again I'm playing...well, in The Wild Party the guy I'm playing is not very nice at all - extremely different than any of this. Very different. I'm playing a bisexual hedonist. I play a good guy in Thoroughly Modern Millie but I don't get the girl. I NEVER get the girl!
NR: Are you doing anything else?
MK: I did the Christmas CD for Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS.
NR: Is that the one with Jim Hindman or the other one?
MK: Actually I'm doing both. Also, my fiancee and I and Carolee (Carmello) were rehearsing for the thing for Hillary Clinton at Ford's Center. The three of us sang and I sang "Soliloquy" with rewritten lyrics so instead of "My Boy, Bill" it was "My Girl, Hill." It was great, but it was a lot. It was wonderful stuff.
NR: That's a tough song.
MK: It wasn't the song as much as it was just remembering lyrics. Every baritone with his "badge" knows "Soliloquy." So, just remembering these lyrics, and then the fact that it is "Soliloquy," it was tough. Actually while I was doing that I came to the show and I had this little frog in my throat at the end. I can always tell if there's something wrong when I'm really tired because the "Where's The Girl?" reprise is the place to tell me. It's the hardest song in the show for me to sing. It's how it sits - it sits really high. I'm a baritone. I'm not a tenor. I'm not like Rex Smith. I'm a baritone. I'm more like Terry. I can sing it but it's very high in my range. I had a little frog in my throat on Thursday night and when I came back in I had the same frog. Everything else was great but it was right there. Then I started wondering, "What's this now?" I was praying that it wasn't a chronic thing. Saturday morning I woke up and as I was warming up, everything was fine until I got into the upper part of my voice. It just wasn't happening, so I thought, "OK, I know there's swelling, but why? Oh no, is this from me being tired, or misusing my voice?" I looked at my throat in the mirror, and sure enough, it was an infection, which made me so happy because it wasn't me doing something vocally wrong.
(While Marc and I were talking, there was a TV on in the background. Just at this point, Marc's Toyota commercial came on.)
NR: Look, there you are.
MK: Yeah.
NR: (laughs) Do you get abuse for that commercial? It's such a strange effect.
MK: Well, they stretch my face, which I love. I love the fact that I'm not all that recognizable. It's a great character. It's a lot of fun to do these things.
NR: Does that take a lot of time?
MK: Yes, and no.
NR: There's a lot of them.
MK: There's 35 of them. Then there's all the radio work too which is GREAT. It's the greatest job in the world. They can work around my schedule. We can shoot it anywhere. The voiceover stuff we can basically do anytime so we can work around rehearsals. It's the greatest job in the world for a theater performer. All of the Toyota radio commercials are me - all the TV voiceovers. Anything with a voice is me. Once or twice a week I go into the studio and every month when the numbers change I've got to do them. It's a job. I'm on a year contract with them and I'm renewing for a year. Next year I'm working with them again. It's a great campaign and it affords me flexibility in the theater. I can do anything I want - Thank You, God!
NR: How did you and Kristin (Chenoweth) meet?
MK: Blind date.
NR: Wow. Was it awhile ago?
MK: Yeah. Five and a half years. We were setup on a blind date.
NR: Does it make it harder or easier that you're both actors?
MK: I don't know. I think in the end it's easier because we're both performers so we both understand the kind of business that we're in. I've found it difficult in the past to date outside the business because it's a whole different mentality. It just is. The way that we look at things, our perception of things, the things that we find valuable are different. Performers can understand performers.
NR: Is it hard if one of you has a job and the other's looking?
MK: No. I don't think so. No. We both have our careers. She's obviously doing brilliantly, but there was a time when I was on Broadway, I was in a big show, I was doing really well and she was trying to get in. But that was because she was newer to town and she's so unique, and so uniquely talented. She wasn't going to just fit a slot. I always said to her, "Babe, you're just so unique, you're going to stick out wherever you are, and you're not going to just fill a slot. They're going to need to write for you." There's nothing better than that in the world and that's exactly what happened. All of a sudden people are saying, "Isn't this exciting? Isn't this exciting?" and it's something I've always known. Of course it's exciting but I always knew this. It took them long enough to figure it out.
NR: You've worked together a little bit here and there, right?
MK: We've worked together. Early on in our relationship we were cast together at North Shore Music Theater doing Phantom. We did Musicals in Mufti for the York Theater Company. We did Billion Dollar Baby for them. That was fun. That was the first time Billion Dollar Baby was done since its original inception on a New York stage, something like 53 years later. There's a recording coming out soon and it's the first time the show's ever been recorded. It's a good show. We did that together, Millie together. So we've done a couple of things together. I'd like to do more. She's good. It's very easy to work with her on a stage. She's one of those naturally funny, instinctively talented people, so it lets you be your best. You're out there with somebody that's completely there and is taking whatever energy you've got and giving it back to you. You can be very spontaneous.
NR: What do you wish you had more time for in your life?
MK: I wish I had more time for the two of us to just have time. That's all. I wish I had more time for weekend vacations. I wish I had the time so we could go and get married.
NR: Is there a date at some point?
MK: We're looking at May, June...we say that. I don't know if it's going to happen. I'm in a new show and she's working a pilot. I just wish there was more time.
NR: She's working a pilot? Can you tell me more about it?
MK: Paramount. She has a development deal with Paramount. She's got a pilot. Who knows? Maybe that time will come up.
NR: Well if that works and she's in California and you're here, what happens next?
MK: We'll be bi-coastal. I don't like L.A. She likes L.A. but she's only been out there when she's been working on great jobs. I was actually out there for a year working, but to live there and to be out there for a month are two different ball games. I'm not an L.A. fan. I don't like the west coast mentality at all. I would love to get on a series that films in New York and be doing the stage at the same time. Wouldn't that be the sweet thing? I'm not worried about that though. Obviously if she has a series and she's in California she can certainly afford to fly whenever she wants. Either of us can fly when we want to. My hope is we'll see what happens with The Wild Party. We'll see what happens with this when we close. Maybe we'll get a little bit of time so we can go and do something stupid.
NR: Do you have any dream roles you'd like to play?
MK: Yeah - it's not been written yet but it's my dream to do the musical version of The Count of Monte Cristo. I really want to play that. I would like to be on the creative end of that too. I just think it's a great story that has yet to be musicalized. It's intense.
NR: Maybe you should talk to Frank (Wildhorn).
MK: You know, Frank is the right kind of person to write it. It's such a wonderful story. Once again, it's about people in given situations. It's a much darker story. How awesome is it that there's a guy who's put in jail for fourteen years? Fourteen years! Wrongly put into prison - an absolutely innocent man, who goes from being this warm, wonderful sweet guy over the course of fourteen years to a hardened, ambitious, driven person who wants to just wreak revenge. He learns and studies and educates himself to the point that he has all the tools that he can have for when he gets out. It's the greatest prison escape ever written. He's thrown out, he becomes a pirate, finds the world's greatest treasure on the Isle of Monte Cristo. You would think anybody would live "happily ever after" after that, and all he can do when he looks at all this gold and treasure that would last him for the rest of his life is think about, "How can I use this to hurt and destroy everyone?" That's really what it is.
NR: I can see why an actor would want to do that.
MK: The theater is about people, relationships, situations, and it's about heightened emotion. In the end it's a happy story. It's a wonderful journey. The arc is huge. It's the course of thirty years in everybody's lives. It's epic proportions of real people, given some fantastical situations, but I think it has all the best qualities of shows.
NR: I hope you get to do it.
Marc's sorry that The Scarlet Pimpernel is closing in January, but it seems that he's about to move on to many more chapters in his life immediately afterwards. His Chauvelin is very different from any others that I've seen and it's an awesome interpretation. Now that I know how much thought is behind it, I understand why.
Carolee Carmello Scarlet Pimpernel Interview (1999) by Nancy Rosati
The Scarlet Pimpernel Masterlist
Carolee played Marguerite in all the pre-Broadway presentations and returned to play her on Broadway when the third version of the show launched at the Neil Simon in the summer of 1999.
Link to it on the Wayback Machine is here, but full interview is below the cut!
This was the first time I had a chance to really talk with Carolee and it was such a thrill for me. She's an amazingly talented actress and I had heard so many wonderful things about her. We spoke late one night after a performance while she was waiting for her husband, Gregg Edelman, to finish up for the night as Javert in Les Miz. We were both tired so we ended up sitting on the floor while she signed posters for Broadway Cares.
NR: Can you tell me a little bit about where you grew up?
CC: I grew up in Albany, New York, not too far from you guys. I even stayed there for college. I went to State University of New York in Albany and got my degree in Business Administration.
NR: Really? What were you planning to do with your life?
CC: I think I was planning to be some sort of corporate personnel manager. I always thought I'd work for some large corporation and do some sort of "people-related" thing. I never wanted to be a computer engineer, although I had to take stuff like that in school. I thought I'd be in the corporate world somewhere or go to law school.
NR: So what happened?
CC: I was a senior in college and someone offered me a job in a local dinner theater. Do you know where Lake George is?
NR: Sure. (Lake George is a resort community outside of Albany.)
CC: There was a dinner theater and a guy offered me a job, having seen me do a community theater thing in Albany. It was an Equity theater and I said, "What's Equity?" I didn't even know what it was and he explained it to me. I had been doing community theater while I was in college, and he said, "If you want to ever do this professionally, then you need to join this union. If you don't want to be a professional actor, then you shouldn't, because it will prevent you from doing other things." So, I kind of stood there and said, "Oh. Let me think about this." I thought I would try it for the summer and see how I felt. I decided that it would be the kind of thing that I would always regret if I didn't try it and get it out of my system for a year. I really never thought I'd be doing it this long. I just thought I'd move to New York, find out it was too hard, and then go home and go to law school.
NR: (laughing) And you didn't.
CC: No, I didn't. I just kept being fortunate enough to get jobs, and work with really good people. One thing would lead to another. I was just sort of waiting for that time when I would say, "This isn't working out." I always told myself that if I made a living I would keep doing it and so I kept making a living.
NR: Do you know Bob Cuccioli?
CC: Just socially.
NR: I went to college with him and he was a business major also.
CC: Was he? I didn't know that.
NR: He was a finance major who worked on Wall Street for three years.
CC: Really? I didn't know that about him.
NR: He did community theater and the same thing happened to him. It's a very similar story to yours. Someone kind of talked him into it and he said the same thing, that he would regret it if he didn't try.
CC: I always envisioned myself at 55 thinking, "If I had moved to New York that summer, I would have been a big star!"
NR: You did Marguerite in the early readings.
CC: I did, yes. I did all of the pre-Broadway presentations.
NR: How has Marguerite changed since then?
CC: Not a whole lot actually. Not too much. The character itself has remained pretty much the same. It's just the arrangement of material that has been different - what's sung where. When I did it, it was the older version - the first version with "Guillotine" and "Vivez" and all the material that was in there before. I never sang "I'll Forget You." There were things that were different about the show but the character was pretty much the same.
NR: What attracted you to come back to it?
CC: I think some sense of completion. I was just coming off of Parade and I was offered this job. It was really good timing and I thought, "This would be a nice way to complete my experience with the show" because I had always felt that I had been a part of the early stages and the creation of it, and yet had never been able to do it in production. I thought it would be fun. I always loved the music. I loved singing those songs. I'm glad I did it. It's really been a fun experience.
NR: You're actually the third Marguerite I've interviewed, after Jessica (Phillips) and Rachel (York.) How do you describe your Marguerite?
CC: Oh....old.
NR: (laughing) Nobody ever said that before!
CC: (laughing) I'm feeling very old tonight. I have a four year old daughter and she wore me out today and I'm trying to be glamourous and a "French actress/star" and I'm thinking, "I'm too old for this." (seriously) Let's see - how would I describe her? I guess I would hope she's smart and feisty and gritty. That's the only thing that I really feel like...if it's at all different from the other two women who I thought were wonderful. (I never saw Jessica do it but I bet she was great too). I did see Christine (Andreas) and Rachel do it and they were both wonderful. People have their own attacks on things. I've always felt like Marguerite's a little more from the gutter. She clawed her way up and then she was this big star. She married this aristocrat, but really underneath she was this middle to lower class girl who's got a lot of grit.
NR: What I noticed you do differently, which is very interesting, is in the "Storybook" reprise. It's a very different take when you're joining in the dance. You look a little more scared and nervous. Rachel did that number very angry and I've noticed that you approach it differently. I like it. It's very interesting.
CC: Everyone has their own take.
NR: That's right and I love seeing that. I love seeing someone take something and turn it around so you think, "Oh, that works too."
CC: It's interesting because you can take the same material and the same costumes and yet it somehow tells the story differently. I always find that fascinating too. That's why I love when understudies go on. They're in the same clothes and they're saying the same lines, but it's completely different, which is fun.
NR: Marguerite doesn't have a lot of light moments, but this is a much lighter show than Parade was.
CC: True.
NR: Do you enjoy one type of a show more than the other?
CC: I think I like the opportunity to go back and forth. I think if you do too much of the sort of light entertainment, you start to feel like, "What does it all mean?" And, if you do too much of the really heavy, "artsy" stuff... (laughing) you never make enough money.
NR: (laughing) Well, that's a good point.
CC: And, you also don't reach the same numbers of people, because the audience for a show like that is that kind of "inside-theater people, New York, that artsy-fartsy kind of show" that some people really love, and the people that come to this show couldn't care less about. It's really lucky if you can go back and forth so you can appeal to the masses and appeal to the elite theater crowd. I like to go back and forth if I can between mediums too, if people will let me.
NR: Scarlet Pimpernel has just announced that they're closing, and you had to deal with Parade closing. How do you get through things like that? That must be hard.
CC: It is hard. It's devastating. When I went through that whole thing with Parade, I think that was the hardest that I've ever been through, because I had been involved since the very early stages. I had so much invested in it and I felt so much a part of the whole process of making the show happen. This will be hard because I really enjoy the show and I really enjoy the people, but because I wasn't involved all the way along, I don't think it will wreck me emotionally as much as that did. But you just hope that something else will come along to distract you, and it usually does. Sometimes you have to wait awhile. Usually some project comes and you think, "Oh, that will be fun." It's like a new boyfriend. (laughs) It takes awhile, you mourn for a little while, and then you say, "Oh, he's cute."
NR: Tell me a little more about Parade. What about all those awards and the Tony nomination?
CC: Oh, it was so exciting and heartbreaking at the same time because we weren't running anymore. Every time the show was recognized in some sort of award or nomination I was just so sad that we weren't still doing the show. I think all that attention would have brought more audience in and maybe it would have been running a little longer. But it was so exciting. The night of the Drama Desk Awards when...and it's still unbelievable to me that I tied with Bernadette Peters because I was SURE that she was going to win. My husband was telling me on the way in, "You'd better write something just in case. I have a feeling." I kept saying, "No. Honey, will you stop? I'm NOT going to win." He kept saying, "I don't know. I have a feeling." I was totally shocked. It was so exciting. There's nothing like that when you're sitting in an audience and they call your name out. You wait for that all your life. It was really cool and it was fun to be at the Tony awards and to perform because we were reunited - the cast members that did perform on the show that night. It was bittersweet.
NR: Are you interested in doing the Parade tour?
CC: You know, we're talking about it now. As I mentioned I have a four year old so it would be very hard. It's hard to tour. I used to do a lot of touring when I was younger and not married. Now that I have a family, it just disrupts everything. Gregg will probably stay with Les Miz for a little while and my daughter Zoe's in pre-school and she'll be starting kindergarten in the fall. I would love to do the show again but I have a feeling it's going to have logistical problems.
NR: I'm just wondering when she starts to get older, it's going to be hard for both of you, because when she gets home from school you're leaving for work.
CC: Yeah, that's true. There are a lot of actors that have kids but usually what happens is one of them decides to stay home for awhile. We haven't come to that point yet. I don't know what's going to happen.
NR: Would you like to do some TV shows? You're not doing Remember WENN anymore, are you?
CC: No, they didn't pick it up for that last season. They did four seasons altogether and I did three of them. Then they did this big cliff hanger which was Pearl Harbor at the end and AMC decided not to do it anymore. We were all so mad because it was such a good show.
NR: Would you like to do some TV?
CC: Yeah, totally.
NR: Would it have to be locally?
CC: No, even if it was out in L.A. My husband and I have been out there twice now for pilot season work - you know, all the actors flock out to try to get the TV jobs. It's such a nice job if you can get a sitcom. It's an easy schedule and very high paying. If one of us got one we'd probably just move out there.
NR: Is it tough without the audience?
CC: You do have an audience with a sitcom. We didn't with Remember WENN. That was sort of shot like a movie. It was one camera and it was a lot more strenuous, but a sitcom is quick. They rehearse it for three days and then the last day they shoot it in front of an audience so you get that sense of laughter and response. That's the gig. That's what I'm looking for.
NR: Do you think it's easier or harder that both you and Gregg are actors?
CC: Oh...it's both. It's easier because we understand what each of us is going through and if there are jobs that he doesn't get, I know exactly how devastated he is. Right now, we're on the same schedule. I know other couples where one of them is an actor and one of them is an accountant or something like that, and they don't have as much trouble with childcare but they never see each other. One is working all day and then they switch off. They get to say, "Good-bye. I'll see you tomorrow." It's easier for us because we get to spend time together, but it's also harder because this business is so precarious and you can never plan anything. You can never say, "OK, I've reached a certain level and now I'm sure I'll have a job in the next few months and we won't have to worry about where the next paycheck is coming from" because you always do. My husband's been nominated for three Tony awards and he's pretty well established as far as theater goes, and yet he went a good nine or ten months last year not working.
NR: Would you encourage your daughter to be an actress?
CC: I would not encourage her, but I know how it is to want to do something, so I'd let her do it. Hopefully she'll want to do something else.
NR: What do you think? Do you think she may be interested? I know it's hard to tell if she's that young.
CC: She's very theatrical but it may also be because she sees us do it all the time. She's never done anything on her own yet. She's never performed, but she's backstage all the time. She's traveled with us and she sits in rehearsals sometimes.
NR: How about the two of you? Have you performed together often?
CC: Yeah, actually we've had quite a few opportunities, before and after we were married. We met doing a show. We met at City of Angels but we didn't really know each other because he was the lead and I was in the chorus. Then we did a show together up at Goodspeed - a musical of the movie Arthur, the Dudley Moore movie.
NR: (incredulous) That was a musical?
CC: (laughing) Yeah. It was really good actually. It never made it into town but it was a really good show. We did that show together. We did Falsettos together on the road. We did 1776 on Broadway last year.
NR: Do you like working together, or is it a little too much time together?
CC: I like it, but I think there is something to be said for having your separate time. It's great because whenever we're working together we know we're on the same schedule, which doesn't always happen. We also know that we both have a paycheck so it's always nice when we're both working. (laughs) Yeah, I do like working with him. He's really fun to be with.
NR: You have a huge fan base that follows you.
CC: Really?
NR: I don't know if you're ever reading on the Internet...
CC: Never.
NR: Parade has a tremendous fan base on the Internet. A lot of them came to this show to see you. You didn't know that?
CC: No. I have so little time when I get home. Sometimes my husband will go and check his stocks or something on the Internet, but I so rarely go on the computer unless I'm playing a Disney game with my daughter. I never have time to do it. I've had a couple people tell me that they've done websites of me and I haven't even had a chance to look at them all.
NR: I was wondering if that prepared you for the League.
CC: Not at all. I have to say that the fans for this show are unlike anything that I've ever experienced in any other show. Of course, I wasn't in Jekyll & Hyde, and the first I experienced it was in Texas because I had never performed the show in front of an audience before. People were coming from all over the country to Dallas and Houston, saying things like, "We came from Ohio. We had to see the show." I would look at them and say (disbelieving), "You flew all the way from Ohio - to see the show?" There were a lot of people who did that. Some said they had flown down from Boston, and I said, "The show's going to be in New York in a month!" They said, "We couldn't wait. We had to see it." It was amazing. They were so enthusiastic and so passionate about the show, so crazy about it. It's great because when you're on stage you can really feel that. It's so nice to be in a show that people really respond to.
NR: What do you do when you're not working?
CC: Chase my daughter around. Let me see, what else do I do? It's mostly about my daughter because these are kind of long hours, especially on a two show day. When I'm home I try to spend time with her when I can. She's a great kid so I don't like to do too many other things. But I did get to sing for the First Lady on Monday. That was exciting. It was really cool. That's the perk of being in a business like this.
NR: What roles would you still like to play?
CC: The one that I finally did get to play right before I came here, (which I would love to do again) is Ella in Bells Are Ringing. (Note: Carolee won the L.A. Ovation Award for Best Actress in this role.) It was so much fun and I would love to do it again. Those things are short and it was only three weeks. I would do anything to do that show again. The other one that I always, always wanted to do, but I'm probably too old for it now, is My Fair Lady. I just feel like it's kind of passed me now unless I do it in some out of the way theater somewhere where they figure that they would give me the chance. It's just one of those parts when you're growing up you just say, "Oh, I want to play that part."
NR: Well, maybe there's someone out there who would love to offer it to you. Thank you so much.
CC: You're welcome.
Underneath it all, I suppose Carolee is just a "working mom" like many of the rest of us. OK, she's a working mom who gets standing ovations, but a working mom nonetheless. I thoroughly enjoyed speaking with her and I love to see her perform. I wish her the best of luck in the future, and I think the business world's loss was most definitely our gain.
