queats

Zia is TOO perfect/Zia est TROP parfaite

This is essentially a repost of a post from I made here/En gros, c'est un repost d'un post que j'ai fait ici: https://www.lescitesdor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3206

🇬🇧Hello, everyone! While watching Season 4, I wondered if Zia wasn't a shallow character.

First of all, I want to add I like Zia, she is still way more pleasant than her beloved…

But my issue with her is that I think she lacks flaws compared to Tao and Esteban. Esteban is impulsive while Tao is a bit overconfident. You could argue that her distrust of Mendoza can somewhat count but I'd say it's more of a change caused by Mendoza's own evolution. This lack of "faults" seems especially obvious to me in Season 4.

During Season 4, Tao and Esteban have their own developments: Tao must regain confidence in himself after the Lalibela incident while Esteban has to let go of his obsession over defeating Ambro-Zarès to stop driving his loved ones away.

Zia? She obtains telekinesis and is apparently chosen by the Bako. I wouldn't call it a development because, personality-wise, she has nothing to "overcome": no flaws or fears. Instead, she gets this gain of power without earning it, this gratuitous "deification". It mainly comes down to the fact that her arc is external, unlike Esteban and Tao's, which are internal. But if you ask me, this magicalish-mysticalish-mythic destiny is not satisfying, she has no evolution, nothing to "learn".

And there is one moment during which she showed a flaw: her departure from the Lenje village for the Bako quest (during Episode 10 of Season 4).

Reminder, she goes looking for the Bako after her fight with Esteban. We're not gonna talk about how he acted like an idiotic and arrogant douche… I want to focus on Zia's reaction. First, she puts Esteban in his place, which we needed since 10 episodes. Then, she takes the Condor and goes search for the Bako. And that's when it it turns into a problem for me.

Esteban suffers consequences for his chickpea-sized brain behavior? Ok. But Zia's departure doesn't only affect Esteban. Zia strands Esteban as well as Mendoza, Sancho and Pedro in the Lenje Village by taking the Condor. She acted selfishly and impulsively, she only thought about herself (even if she didn't mean to cause harm. Therefore, it’s a flaw!

But this moment of selfishness doesn't work for me because:

1) Zia isn't selfish usually. Therefore, this moment of selfishness isn't like her.

2) The selfishness of this action is NEVER called out. Instead, we have the Lenje Village's matriarch telling ys that Zia is "strong". Miss, please, can it… Having a flaw but never having it pointed out is useless. And above all, it adds to the feeling that Zia is flawless since when she is in the wrong, the series IGNORES it.

Here, it's the end of my post. I'd like to hear what you think. I'd like a little positivity for my opinion on this series. 🇬🇧

🇫🇷 Bonjour, tout le monde ! En regardant la Saison 4, je me suis demandé si Zia n'était pas un perso creux.

Avant toute chose, je précise que j'apprécie Zia; elle est quand même plus agréable que son cher et tendre …

Mais mon problème avec elle, c’est que je trouve qu'elle manque de défauts par rapport à Esteban et Tao. Esteban est impulsif et Tao a un peu trop confiance en lui … On pourrait se dire que sa méfiance de Mendoza peut à la limite compter mais je dirais plus que c'est un changement entraîné par la propre évolution de Mendoza. Ce manque de " failles " me saute surtout aux yeux dans les Saisons 2 à 4, particulièrement la 4.

En Saison 4, Tao et Esteban ont leur propres développements : Tao doit regagner confiance en lui après l'incident de Lalibela et Esteban doit arrêter son obsession de vaincre Ambro-Zarès pour ne plus éloigner ses proches.

Zia ? Elle … Obtient la télékinésie et est apparemment choisie par le Bako. Je trouve pas que ce soit un développement car, au niveau de son caractère, elle n'a rien à " dépasser " : pas de défauts ou de peurs. Au lieu de ça, elle a un gain de puissance sans rien faire, une " divinisation " gratuite. Ça tient surtout au fait que son arche est externe, contrairement à ceux d'Esteban et Tao qui sont internes. Mais pour moi, cette destinée magico-mystico-mythique est pas très satisfaisante, elle n'a pas d'évolution, n'a rien à " apprendre ".

Et il y a bien un moment où elle montre un défaut : son départ du village Lenje pour la quête du Bako (dans l'épisode 10 de la Saison 4).

Pour rappel, elle part à la recherche du Bako après sa dispute avec Esteban. On va pas parler du fait qu'Esteban ait agit en odieux et arrogant crétin … Je veux me pencher sur la réaction de Zia. D'abord, elle remet Esteban en place, ce d'on avait besoin depuis 10 épisodes. Ensuite, elle prend le Condor pour chercher le Bako. Et là, ça coince pour moi.

Qu'Esteban subisse des conséquences pour son comportement de cerveau de pois chiche ? OK. Mais y a pas qu'Esteban qui est affecté par le départ de Zia : Zia coince Esteban ainsi que Mendoza, Sancho et Pedro au village Lenje en prenant le Condor. Elle a agi de manière égoïste et impulsive, elle n'a pensé qu'à elle-même (même si elle ne voulait pas nuire). C'est donc un défaut !

Mais … Ce moment d'égoïsme ne marche pas pour moi car

1) Zia n'est PAS égoïste de base. Ce moment d'égoïsme ne lui ressemble donc pas.

2) L'égoïsme de cet acte n'est JAMAIS interpellé. Au lieu de ça, on a la matriarche du village Lenje qui nous dit que Zia est " forte ". Madame, taisez-vous, s’il vous plaît … Avoir un défaut sans qu'il ne soit jamais interpellé, c'est inutile. Et surtout, ça renforce cette impression que Zia n'a pas de défaut vu que quand elle agit mal, la série l'IGNORE.

Firstly, you correctly identified the kids’ flaws: Esteban is impulsive and Tao is overconfident. Both have to overcome these challenges at some point during the show. But for Zia, it’s less clear. In season 1, it seems like her biggest issue is distrust (not only towards Mendoza). She only sees things in black or white: people are either only good or only bad, no in between. In the same vein, for her, white people are only bad. However, she learns this isn’t the case as the episodes go on. I think it’s a personal belief she gets over and not something based on Mendoza’s evolution, because it stems from the trauma she faced as a child. It’s only once she sees more of the world that she (and the other kids) realize people are more complicated then they initially thought (and not just Europeans).

You seem to only talk about season 4 but I think that would be unfair for Zia, since it’s the season where she develops the least (that could still be seen as a problem though). But let’s look into season 4 anyway. I think Zia has to learn how to trust in herself. That might be why she gets powers. Remember how she was like in season 1. Although she was always brave, she often needed to be saved (by Mendoza or Esteban). It’s like she had the damsel in distress role and didn’t contribute much. Thanks to her relationship with the kids, she could feel more confident in the world (her existence is no longer a fight for survival in an alien culture). Her powers might symbolize that even better. She can use them to fight and protect her friends, who have been protecting her since this whole time. The scene with the invisible bridge is a perfect example where Zia says just that, almost word for word. It’s her time to look out for everyone, thanks to the love and sense of security they gave her. These might not be your typical “personal flaws” but I still think these events changed her in some ways (hard to tell exactly how cause she’s still very young) and still lead into her own personal arc.

More about her powers. I don’t think she just “gets them”. We know she can speak to animals, that has been hinted at way back since season 1. Like the scene where Esteban says that animals seem to understand what Zia is saying. Or when Zia reveals she has a connection with animals since she raised a condor. Furthermore, her powers aren’t just a clutch to get them out of situations. Sometimes they don’t work. The best example I can think of is the gorilla scene. Despite Zia talking to them, they still wanted to murder the team. Next, there’s her telekinesis powers, which again, didn’t appear out of the blue. She needed to use the sundagatt crowns first, then practice on her own for a while until she got the hang of it. Esteban never really needed to practice calling to the sun.

Next, you talked about her leaving the village for the Bako as a moment of selfishness or a flaw and I don’t think it’s right word for that at all.

First, the person in the wrong here is Esteban. We know this because the show makes it obvious. Mendoza gently discusses the issue with Esteban to make him realize he treated Zia badly. Next, we need to realize that Zia going for the Bako was not selfish, they NEEDED to do that! They needed the Bako! They were going to go for it anyway! The problem here is that no one in the team (not just Esteban, but the others too) were all caught up in the fight between Esteban and temba. The 5 of them ought to have gone together, but they weren’t in a rush. So Zia goes by herself, which is valid because of how angry she was. She felt ignored so of course she won’t wait for them to come.

The problem the gang has with this is that she went alone. And why are they upset she went alone? Because they’re afraid she’ll be in danger (Mendoza’s main concern is that she went to kilwa alone). But Zia successfully completed her mission, proving she is not that girl that needs to be protected all the time (like in season 1). It’s good to be reminded that she can do stuff on her own.

Zia was not thinking about herself in this scene. In fact she was the ONLY one thinking about the others! She didn’t get the Bako for herself to use. They needed to bring it to all the African villages (something Esteban didn’t really want to do).

You also said that by taking the condor, she stranded the others in the village (for like a day, by the way). But where else did they have to go??? What would they need the condor for??? They weren’t trapped in a harsh wasteland. They were among friends in a nice, kind village. They were chilling.

Finally, you say the selfishness of her action is never called out. I’ve already explained how her action was not selfish, but let’s assume for a moment it is. If it was, you would be right to say she never gets called out for it. But we need to remember that very often, most characters don’t get called out for their bad behaviour anyway.

The best example I have is Mendoza. He did horrible things in season 1. He robbed Esteban of his medallion, kidnapped Zia, flooded a village for money, betrayed the gang (many times), just to name a few. Not once does he apologize. Not once is he reminded of what he did. Not once does he seem to regret anything! It’s like everyone forgot what happened! So as long as Mendoza doesn’t have to pay retribution for all that stuff he did, I think we can ignore Zia attempting to drive the plot forward by herself for once.

I’ve said before that the two boys have come closer to each other, and that Tao has already become a close friend of Esteban by episodes 8/9, but I’d like to come back to that point.

(best accidental screenshot I've taken in a long time)

From episode 6, when they first meet, to episode 14, when they finally seem to reconcile and work things out, their relationship is complicated. Their first encounter was already quite tense: between Zia’s kidnapping and the moment Tao accidentally shot Esteban with Mendoza’s gun, it took some effort to bring the two boys together. As we can see in episode 6, it’s Esteban’s friendliness and bravery that manages to break Tao’s initial distrust towards him and the Spaniards. Even if they didn’t get along at the start, Esteban defended Tao against Mendoza and went to help him when he was stuck under the rock in the temple. Episode 7 shows how the voyage aboard the Solaris brought them closer together, with Esteban pranking Tao and chatting with him, but also helping him to discover the ship’s secrets.

Their relationship is kinda put to the test in episode 8, when Esteban drags Tao along to free Zia. They end up lost in the underground passage and this leads to a brief argument between them. They manage to escape and return to the ship in the end, but this first confrontation shows us how different they are and how it can impact their friendship. They are once again bickering in episode 9 when the Solaris is attacked by the San Miguel, but their opposition culminates with episode 11. Tao seems to already be in a bad mood at the start of the episode, complaining constantly about their trip. Once again, Esteban’s “idea” of hurtling down a hill leads to a quick argument, and they quarrel with each other when they get close to the river. Finally, when Zia seems to lose hope of finding her village again, Tao’s bad mood comes back up, and Esteban cuts him off to defend Zia. All this bickering underlines well that their friendship is still new and that they’re not used to each other yet.

Episodes 12, 13 and 14 are where their friendship truly solidifies. Episode 12 is the first one in which we can see the three kids cooperate together to put Tao’s plan into action and save the Incans. This feels like a big step forward, as their teamwork indeed helps the Incans to repel Gomez's attack. Episode 13 also highlights Esteban and Tao’s bond, with both boys bathing and playing in the water (one of the few times when they really get to act like kids in the first season). Tao and Zia also encourage and help Esteban to learn more about his past, going as far as climbing the mountain with him to meet Mayucca. Even though Tao is reluctant at first, he tags along and quickly becomes more invested in Esteban’s quest. This finally culminates in episode 14, where Esteban tries to leave the Machu Picchu without his friends and ends up stuck in the middle of the rope bridge. Tao is the first one to think about this obstacle, and even if he makes fun of him at the start, he comes to help him cross it. Tao tries to convince Esteban to come back, but as Esteban insists he gives up and accepts to help him retrieve the missing half of his medallion. This little quest really strengthens their friendship, and from here the two boys don't argue nearly as much as they did at the beginning (I think that they bicker once or twice in the second half of the show, but it’s more playful and anecdotal than it is in the episode 8 or 11).

The dynamic between Esteban and Tao is nice to follow because they don’t magically become friends right after their first meeting. As I’ve mentioned, they didn’t start well and they often argue with each other. However, they manage to gradually get along thanks to all the adventures they share, and their bond grows stronger with every trial they face.

Their dynamic was also explored in an interesting way in season 2: Esteban’s Atlantean origin was a nice addition to the original material and was enough to threaten his relationship with Tao. It was well executed and well resolved: in the same spirit as season one, it’s nice to see the two boys get along again through the challenges they face together (in that case, Zares’ attack against the three sailors, if I remember correctly).

One word about Tao and Zia: they obviously grow closer more quickly than Esteban and Tao do. Thanks to the prophecy, Tao trusts her from the beginning, and Zia quickly befriends him. Their near-death experience in episode 9, with the destruction of the Solaris, probably helped as well. It was also a good idea to give Zia a Muan heritage, which strengthened her bond with Tao (However, I’ve never really been fan of the semi-romantic subplot that they tried to introduce at the start of season 3, and I’m glad they didn’t try to push it for too long. Tao and Zia are very much like siblings, just like Esteban and Tao end up being over the course of their adventure).

And because I can't resist, some good moments between them:

Nouveau petit fanart de Mendoza et Bébésteban lors du voyage de Magellan, après le sauvetage du petit garçon et avant qu'il ne soit confié aux moines de la cathédrale de Barcelone. Un moment de tendresse et de complicité entre ces deux personnages, qui profitent d'une mer paisible dans le nid de pie du navire. Esteban n'était pas encore sujet au vertige ! ^^

« Aucun ennemi, aucune femme ne nous donne autant que lui la sensation du combat, ne nous force à tant de prévoyance, car il est le maître de la mer, celui qu’on peut éviter, utiliser ou fuir, mais qu’on ne dompte jamais. Et dans l’âme du marin règne, comme chez les croyants, l’idée d’un Dieu irascible et formidable, la crainte mystérieuse, religieuse, infinie du vent, et le respect de sa puissance.»

Guy de Maupassant Sur l’eau, Paul Ollendorff éditeur, 1888

Pizarro is the main antagonist of the first arc: he’s been mentioned since episode one and his soldiers remain the main threat for nearly 20 episodes (the Spaniards are then replaced by Marinche and the Doctor during the quest for the manuscripts, and then the show introduces the Olmecs, who are the last villains). Even if the Olmecs are pure evil and the duo Marinche/the Doctor is the most dangerous and cunning of the lot, Pizarro holds a special place in the journey of the children. He’s the one who attacked Puna and kidnapped Zia; he’s also the one who asked Gomez to kidnap her once more and to bring her back to Lima. He only appears physically in three episodes (8,10,19) but his presence is felt throughout the first arc of the show.

Pizarro is first mentioned by Gomez in episode 2, when he informs Gaspard of the orders of the governor and explains why Zia is important to him. In a few lines, we already know what kind of man Pizarro is: greedy, dangerous and short-tempered. Gomez, who appeared as a mysterious and menacing figure until then (he has a few interactions with Perez and Mendoza, which gives us a glimpse of his slyness), is afraid of the reaction of the governor if they don’t bring him Zia. And seeing a man like Gomez being “afraid” of someone else already establishes how threatening Pizarro is. We can already sense the conflict to come: Pizarro yearns for more gold and expects Zia to lead him to the fabulous cities of gold; while she has shown (and will say many times throughout the show) that she won’t tell her people’s secrets, won’t lead the Spaniards to anything, and would rather die than help a man like Pizarro.

Pizarro is mentioned once more in episode 7, when Gaspard and Gomez discuss the loss of Zia and of the Esperanza. Once again, they refer to his greediness and his bad temper, which are also the first things that appear when we meet him in episode 8.

The show does a really good job of introducing every villain, and Pizarro is no exception. We first meet his soldiers, then we discover his fortress and the treatment he reserves for the Incans under his rule. Then, we finally see him, after waiting 8 episodes: we still can’t see his face, but he’s just as menacing as we imagined.

He’s speaking to his gold, enjoying the prize of his conquest. He states once more that gold is everything for him: nothing else matters. When Alvarez interrupts Pizarro, he’s annoyed at first, but the mention of Gomez’s expedition and of a young Incan immediately catches his attention.

This leads to the first confrontation between Pizarro and the children. It’s interesting to see their reaction: Zia would easily be the most scared of the group (which, knowing her past with him, is understandable). Pizarro is terrifying: he's disproportionned, talks loudly and has this mad expression when he asks her to translate the quipu.

Mendoza’s reaction may be the best to observe: he’s the one who asked to meet Pizarro, and yet he’s oddly quiet for a long time. He’s the one who recognizes Pizarro, as he straightens up and formally addresses him by his full titles. You can sense the same “fear” or deference in his tone as in Gomez’s. You can almost tell that Mendoza is intimidated by Pizarro and that he knows he’d better play his cards right if he wants to escape and keep everyone alive. That’s why he’s acting strange, staying silent for once and only talking respectfully to Pizarro. The only other time we had seen him act like that was when he convinced Perez and Gomez to let him keep Esteban and Zia under his protection. Yet, he knew how to play with Perez and which buttons to push to get what he wanted. With Pizarro, he’s forced to "play dumb" and cautiously offer to interrogate Zia. Mendoza’s reaction gives the same impression as the discourse of Gomez from episode 2: it asserts Pizarro as a powerful authority figure which can be a formidable threat if crossed.

But your post is also making me think about a lot of different stuff as well.

For example, the first time Esteban meets Zia, it’s when she’s kidnapped. And I always thought that it must’ve been pretty traumatic for her to get kidnapped AGAIN when it happened to her already 4 years ago. But we can also think that, it must’ve been traumatic for her to see Pizarro AGAIN after he was the one that ruined her life in the first place. We know she was pretty afraid of Mendoza (who isn’t even trying to harm her) so imagine how terrifying Pizarro must be. The fact that Zia refused to comply to his orders right in his face shows us just how brave she is (it’s even more impressive cause she’s only ≈11 years old). Her and Katara from Atla would get along really well.

And you pointed out something that I didn’t realize. With superiors like Gomez or Perez, Mendoza had no problem acting out of line, going as far as subtly insulting them or straight out blackmailing them, but with Pizarro, it is pretty different. It makes sense though, Mendoza really can’t afford going against a governor and his army. Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter how careful, tactful or diplomatic Mendoza is. Pizarro is NOT having it (as we see in ep 19), while it takes a lot longer for other characters (like Gomez) to realize he’s not good news.

Final point that kinda relates to Pizarro but also not: remember when Zia refuses to tell them what the kipu says, they kinda imply that their next move is to torture her cause Pizarro says to one of his men “you know how to make people talk”. Which then causes Mendoza to immediately step in and offer to get the info out by himself, sparing Zia from unnecessary harm. I really like that scene cause we know Mendoza is a bad person but by comparing him to other Spaniards, he doesn’t actually seem that bad. And I think that’s really where his manipulation lies. Showing the kids how bad he could be, which makes all his selfish deeds almost trivial. Unfortunately that doesn’t work with Zia. She doesn’t see the evil in itself, she just sees the white man.

Summer is here, and that means stargazing season is upon us. And who better to guide you through nightime observation than an accomplished navigator? ⭐