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When I first finished the game I felt like the characters didn't have enough meat on their bone (hah) but I think ultimately why I feel drawn to this game regardless is because the game is clearly confident in it's identity that it doesn't fear you coming away from the game feeling unsatisfied
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@critical-quit I am responding here because this is my dedicated Mina sideblog.
The more and more I think about that letter to more I'm starting to confuse myself, so I'll cut all my potential side tangents to just say: I think you have a point.
All the main three characters have a color associated with them. Lionel is blue, Thorne is purple, and Mina is red. This is reflected in their wax seals:
In Thorne's residence, we get this:
This is very obviously Thorne's color:
The simpler the explanation the better it is, so it's most likely that Thorne, as you say, sent it under a different stamp.
On the matter of Mina's arrival to the island, something I'm very much confused about, spoilers incoming:
The thing that I'm still very much confused about is this: Did Lionel know Mina was on her way or not?
On one hand, we have this dialogue from Lionel himself:
The wordage of 'fortunate' to me implies that it was an unexpected thing that worked out in Lionel's favor.
But then from the very beginning of the game, we have this:
If Lionel prepared this for her, then that would mean he knew she was on her way.
To me this feels like it seems contradictory, unless what Cappy is saying isn't meant to be specifically for Mina, but rather any newcomer to Tenebrous. But we never get an implication that that is the case, so I'm just left shrugging since I don't really understand the chronology of events here.
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Y'know, that's one to really chew on. That's the most mixed I've seen recently. I mean, insofar as these sorts of games. There are plenty that center their narrative and Mina is not one of them. And yet I couldn't help but be swept along anyway. Mina feels like she has a lot of character beyond just Player Mousegirl. You see her go from sleeping soundly after each job well done to staying up all night tired and fretting over the truth of Spark.
It's not a happy ending. The town is in ruins and things have changed that can never be re-obtained. Mina is branded a traitor like Thorne, the townspeople are rioting, it's all-out chaos in the streets but like... What else is supposed to happen? Their entire way of life changed in one night and not enough of them knew or cared they were slowly getting turned into monsters. I think it's a brave enough point to make. Tat sometimes doing the right thing, taking the action to save as many people as you can, wins you no favour when the people you're trying to help will never know the truth.
But with it we see the Bayou healing. The rails on Coltrane Peak are getting rebuilt. The Great Worm is finally at peace, the mining boom is over. The Friendly Crow faction is reclaiming their land and working together with the people about Septemburg. The Astral Orrery has a way to GTFO if that's what people really want, but everywhere you look there are signs of healing. Even though the people of Ossex are now in tumult and witch trials, they are the people who proverbially fattened themselves on the suffering of the surrounding lands.
And Mina loses it all to try and combat that, and their unseen doom. All of her friends, the Hollowers, Cappy, Lionel was lost long ago even though she didn't realize it yet. I find it poignant that her only remaining friend is the beaten, battered Thorne. The two people who saved he land and all they have left is each other.
I think what I don't like about the ending is not really about the ending at all.
Disclamer I absolutely love this game and will recommend it to everyone, no hate here. This is only meant as a discussion and is my opinion and not meant to convince anyone.
Narratively, in her dialogue I felt that Mina was trying to do the right thing but the game forces you to do "bad" things throughout to progress or have items. But Mina herself doesn't comment on those. I think I would have liked for Mina to actully be gray, to try to justify herself? Now she feels as if she's not completely in tune with what is happening, her dialogue is sparce but there are some body language, especially after towers, that I interpreted as her having second thought about Lionel. But what is her goal and thoughts? What does she think about the moth turning when it gets close to the light, how about thorne's letter begging her to see the light? What did she thought when she stole that ladder to get bones in tough to reach places or stole from that tomb or even worse, when she entomb that guy alive?
All these actions would not be unwelcomed if I knew I was playing a mouse that would not care about the individuals because the end justifies the means. it's like the game cannot decides if it wants to tell a specific story or let us be the main character with her being mostly silent. I love her characters but she also feels off? A missmatch of actions vs what the character seems to be thinking.
The people are often unkind towards her in the city. She is looked down upon and very quickly the journal paints her in a bad light. Even the kids that challenge you to kick the can far enough, reacts badly when you do it, as if you were ill-intentioned. The woman that will give you bones as if she thinks you are asking for it when you speak to her. Or that you cannot enter the music hall. Is Mina resentful or is it water on a duck's back? I think I don't understand her motivations. And I don't understand what warrants those reactions toward her . Is it only racism/classism? The hollower is a job or a "race". Do you chose to be one?
As for the ending itself, ok fine everything is in dissaray but why does it feels like she doesn't care when the last person who would vouch for her is murdered in from of her as she flees? She is probably devastated. This one felt like a fuck you from the devs really... it adds nothing in my opinion to the story. What did the dev wanted to tell with that? And even when Lionel's guard turn on Mina, the ones that were with Thorne are still against her. She is alone in this world and even her friends, there is not one dialogue (that I've seen) when someone comments on Mina being attacked by guards or Mina herself telling them about Lionel.
And what about Lionel, was he a victim too? What was His motivation? Maybe just getting notoriety?
Since the game's focus is not the narrative, I feel like it's an odd choice to make as a story. I would have loved exactly that story and ending, but with a little more care I think. Or a traditional story if they didn't care enough about it? The elements that they tell us invites you caring about the universe. I won't ask about the political intricacies of the mushroom kingdom or the moral implication of mario stomping goompas. The devs make it clear, this is to have fun don't think about it. In Mina I don't feel like the devs are asking me not to think about it.
When I play games, I try to think about what the character is feeling and thinking as I play. But I had a tough time knowing who Mina is and wants.
Probably a lot of those complaints are a problem with games that can be tackled in any order. You cannot easily weave a tale when people will trigger events at different times in their playthrough. So they peobably struggle with this narratively.
As I said earlier I absolutely love that game even with my opinions about the story. I think about the story a lot Because I love the game to death. Also there might be updates that changes certain things down the line (we remember the first ending of hades 2 that they later changed). I don't wish that they change it completely but more that they tweak certain factors. A lot would be fixed if they themselves understand Mina the character and add a couples of lines.
And I think you are right with saying that there was not much else that could happen except chaos. When things change fast in a society, things are messy, lots of people die. (See revolutions around the world for example). But yeah I think it was maybe a little more that they could chew?
It is my only criticism of the game. I backed it on kickstarter a few years back and I am absolutely not disapointed. The art, the music, the god tier game design and level design, not having a map(yes I hope more games are brave enough to do this when it makes sens), even the difficulty that has a weird curve to it, I love it all.
I cannot wait to see what this studio does next. I'll be replaying Mina multiple times as I did with Shovel Knight.
Uh yeah this is longer that I though, thank you for reading!
I personally think the key to a lot of Mina's morality falls to one key scene. It was the one that kind of drew me into thinking about her as a character and what it means, and I feel it solves over most of the question of who she is as a character.
Its Poppit's Dance. Mina and Poppit do a very convincing rendition of a marionetteer's dance together. It's a classic hallmark of the art, and will often have moves like you see, the marionette attempting to run, stumbling, arguing with the strings, then eventually falling in line with the puppeteer and dancing together. I think the way Poppit talks about how well Mina performed, how he talks about taking the strings for awhile, well it strikes me that Mina is a character who wants to be directed. He knows, and Mina knows, someone has the strings.
That's us. A part of Mina's characterization, in my opinion, is that she's taking direction. Look at how she looks at us from time to time, acknowledging her player's presence.
Maybe we're the Isle's latent Spark. The thing threatening to turn her into a monster, guiding her.
But either way, I think it invites us to consider that Mina might be a character that has difficulty acting definitively. She's faced with a massive choice, and it takes her most of the game to decide. And when she does? When she finally takes a stand (only after any chance to back away is taken from her)? She's discarded.
Mina constantly does as asked, quietly, as if to say "whatever you want, I guess". If everything else lands, the idea of her deferring her judgement of any particular action makes sense. She does as requested, with few comments, and it constantly gets her in trouble. Like foreshadowing what's to come. As if to say that this particular trait of hers will eventually damn her. And it won't be especially fair.
At least that was my read. Mina as indecisive and unsure, prone to taking up orders and not often bucking them. Always punished whether or not she does. And it's the setup for tragedy. At the very least, her final actions are wholly her own. Dealing with Spark and Lionel was entirely under her power.
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Mina the hollower spoilers, regarding the letters.
The first letter Mina gets is interesting, because if you pay attention to the wax seals you may be led to believe that the first letter was written by Lionel, not Thorne.
After all, the wax seal doesn't match Thorne's:
And the game does try say this about the letter too:
So the letter being written by Lionel was the conclusion I came to when I finished my first playthrough.
However, this is muddied by Thorne himself admitting he wrote a letter to Mina:
Since he specifies that he wrote to Mina AS the Marshall, I am inclined to think that the letter Mina received WAS from Thorne:
So I think what happened is this: Thorne, at the point he penned this letter, had already sent Lionel multiple letters, and gotten ignored by Lionel.
So he goes behind Lionel's back and attempts to send Mina this letter, claiming that Lionel asked for her presence.
However, this letter is intercepted by Lionel, who breaks Thorne's wax seal to read the letter. Seizing this opportunity to have Mina brought back, Lionel seals this very letter letter back with his own seal and then the letter is sent. This would explain both how this letter could be from Thorne and bear Lionel's wax seal.
Now, there is also the possibility that Thorne's original letter was destroyed and Lionel forged a completely new one pretending its from Thorne, but considering Lionel's penchant for twisting people's actions/words to suit his own agenda, I'm inclined to think that the letter Mina receives is the genuine one.
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