just little things that makes me think of AchillesxPatroclus | DNI if you kink shame | Not Epic friendly | pro-TSoA | | Collector of Nazi scalps | You cannot out-troll me
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TL;DR: "These were traveling stories told so that any listener can insert themselves inside. And a story meant to belong to so many people was never meant to be gatekept to just one look."
"Homer wasn't necessarily even a real person let alone there for the Trojan war making the idea of being "accurate" to the author's description... murky."
"There's been a centuries long effort to associate these stories with whiteness, but that does not line up with history and does a disservice to them."
"The basic reason why The Odyssey has been retold and should be retold is that it was never historically accurate to begin with. It was always a fantasy in the past. It was always the creation of a composite myth based on different local environments to serve the needs of its audience."
"When people want to own a particular story or only these people only have the authority to retell it, what they're missing is that myth and the Homeric poetry especially already developed in a pluralistic society."
"We project onto the past a monolithic culture [that did not exist]"
"The ancient Greeks did not separate the world into the races of Black and white like we do today."
"Cultural representation matters... Wanting more Greek and Mediterranean actors in these roles is a real and worthy goal. But it has to be argued honestly without dressing up racism and anti-Blackness as a concern for accuracy."
"Every culture that has loves The Odyssey and Homer has remade the story in their own image and ours is a world full of people from everywhere. And a version of The Odyssey that looks like that might just be the most faithful retelling..."
TL;DR: "These were traveling stories told so that any listener can insert themselves inside. And a story meant to belong to so many people was never meant to be gatekept to just one look."
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The racist and transphobic tears being shed over the casting in The Odyssey almost make me want to see it.... almost.
I mean just imagine looking at Lupita Nyong'o and not thinking, "Yeah, that's the most beautiful woman in the world, I'd go to war for that." You must be seriously estranged from beauty to think anything else.
Emily Wilsonâs 2017 translation of Homerâs epicâthe first by a womanâwas called a woke âabominationâ by online reactionaries. Christopher No
The confirmation of her casting in May kicked off another wave of conniption fits. One YouTuber seemed to seriously suggest that the nation of Greece should file a lawsuit against Nolan. (On what grounds, exactly?) âHelen of Troyâ rocketed up the trending topics on X, with the websiteâs trillionaire owner claiming that Nolan âhas lost his integrityâ and had âdesecrated the Odyssey so that he would be eligible for an Academy Award.â Such a feverish reaction to the idea of a fantastical ancient queen being played by a Black actress has become grimly predictable. History, literature, and even completely made-up myths have become fodder for reactionaries, cranks, and amateur historian content creators with names like @RomanHelmetGuy, all contesting vague ideas of âWestern culture.â
Such sympathies naturally offended the sensibilities of those who hold Homer (and Odysseus himself) as foundational to that amorphous notion of âWestern civilization,â which can seem like little more than myth sustaining white, patriarchal, Eurocentric supremacy.
For all their squealing about fealty, the assumptions that some fans, armchair historians, and trillionaire rocketeers bring to The Odyssey tend to betray their now narrow understanding of the works they claim to hold so dear. Likewise, describing Odysseus as âcomplicated,â or casting a Black actress as Helen of Troy, raise hackles not because it is ahistoricalâneither Homerâs hero nor Helen were actual historical figuresâbut because it disturbs modern, conservative assumptions about male heroism and female beauty. Undermine the presumptions of Western literature (and Western civilizationâs) foundational myth, and soon the whole project might seem totally forfeit.
âThe idea of âWestern civilizationâ is a historical invention of the 19th century, and developed to justify slavery, to justify racism, to justify European and American colonization and empire-building. Itâs not actually about any historical, absolute continuity to ancient Greece.â
We were literally just told you stole this from Italy.
Wait, is this a different carnival? And so why this carnival? What is the celebration for? What is is its importance? Does it relate to any the ancient festivals relating to Dio?????
Fucking Italy again. Usually the big fashion is Paris. Also, why not Greek?
I feel like this is not a normal hairstyle for a mid-1800s Regency England colony.
hmm
'she'd be delighted to meet you' and skip over the introductions right into dancing. hmm.
The hints he's dropping about being the one to rescue her and 'not like other men' is just so cringe.
'as they conversed' about what? What they hell are they talking about? What possibly could they be talking about?
She already asked him about Corfu twice now.
đđđđ
wasn't this supposed to be a big party? what happened to the party???
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I dont know why people are always weird when it comes to Dionysus. This author literally has Dionysus say an ableist slur
I would need more context, but it sounds like this Dionysus is being characterized as either a snobby prep or snobby jock. I don't personally think either character role fit him, but, again, I would need more context.
Yet another retelling that deviates so much from the mythology it shouldâve just been an original story lol
And such a generic Medusa design too, Iâve seen millions just like it, Iâve seen so many ppl design Medusa with alt fashion that itâs not really⌠alt anymore lol. And why do ppl always make Medusa green? The oldest colorful depictions of her were Roman mosaics and while they did depict her as beautiful they usually had a variety of earthy colors not just green.
Absolutely wild to make your whole blog persona about hating on other people's Medusa headcanons and designs when your own design is a red lizard monster covered in swastikas.
Why does pop culture continue to imagine that the statues of the classical world were all white? Can the digital addition of painted colors
As this history of painted statuary returns to view, it brings with it an unsettling question: if we know these statues were polychromatic, why do they remain lily white in our popular imagination?
How we color (or fail to color) classical antiquity is often a result of our own cultural values.
...color in sculpture came to mean barbarism, for they assumed that the lofty ancient Greeks were too sophisticated to color their art...
For their part, Romans had a great variety of skin tones within their Mediterranean world. Frescoes, mosaics and painted ceramics from both the Greek and Roman periods reveal a fascination with black Africans and particularly Ethiopians, but did not employ what W.E.B. Du Bois would call a "color prejudice." Although Romans generally differentiated people on their cultural and ethnic background rather than the color of their skin, ancient sources do occasionally mention skin tone and artists tried to convey the color of their flesh.
However, classical archaeology, science and new digital technologies now allow us the ability to go back and more accurately depict the ancient Mediterranean. In doing so, we can abandon the Eurocentric art history of the 18th century and its championing of whiteness as equal to beauty. In its place we can illustrate the diversity of the Mediterranean, its people and its history. And, perhaps, in this truer representation, we can come to better understand ourselves.
This is absolutely fanfiction. It's an attempt at historical romance, but it's beat by beat fanfiction.
Interesting. Borrowing from Catholics and Italians.
Is this the author narrating to us or what Ariadne is thinking? I just don't understand.
?????
Why does cheating have to be a mistake? What if the wife wanted to cheat and had no qualms about it? Side note, cheating is never an 'oops'.
I hope this means that Dio is going to help her learn to move on. Otherwise, there will be no character arc for her.
I can't get a sense of Ariadne's character. She's naive and quiet and nice and reserved, but full of a quick temper???? I feel like this is going to be one of those situations where the character will have a personality to match the narrative as needed.
Does anyone else feel like this is Maggie venting about a past relationship?
Really? This is the big intro? Scolding a couple looking for a place for a quick fuck? Isn't he the god of orgies? đđđ
So basically any MMC in a historical romance book with a half-naked woman/man on the cover. Got it.
đľMasquerade, paper faces on parade
Masquerade, hide your face so the world will never find you
Masquerade, every face, a different shade
Masquerade, look around, there's another mask behind youđľ
Oh so she falls in love all the time. This isn't anything special then. She's one of those women in love with being in love. Gotcha.
Actually, according to historical romance authors everywhere a library is a great place to fuck. Side note, Dio brings up trade. Do you think they're trading with African countries or are we still believing that Greece was isolated from the entirety of the African continent?
Wait, is she not wearing a mask???
I feel like greekaboos are always lecturing about how we're not supposed to be applying Christianity to Greek myths and yet here we are. Christian sin.
Sigh. I should really start cross-referencing with TV Tropes.
This trope with 'Olympos' as a last name has been used in so so so many books and fanfics. Seriously?
Isn't he wearing a mask? How can she see his lips?
Okay so we're switching between POVs I guess.
Should Ariadne (?) know this much about war, if that's her POV that is. And also, wouldn't everyone have switched to guns by now?
She's blushed twice in the span of 5 paragraphs.
Hey, why are we promoting Italian music? Maggie, aren't you all about making greece great again? Why are you erasing Greek music?
âThe idea of âWestern civilizationâ is a historical invention of the 19th century, and developed to justify slavery, to justify racism, to justify European and American colonization and empire-building. Itâs not actually about any historical, absolute continuity to ancient Greece.â
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Very obviously fanfiction. We're given names and a quick recap of everything to bring us up to date on the situation. This could have been so much more. Why wasn't time spent to develop the crucial backstory to the myth? Are we in a rush to get to the main romance? Lame.
I was expecting a lecture on British occupation. Oh well.
So change is inevitable. Unless its immigration. That is something one must fight back against.
Holy fucking commas batman.
You can tell this is fanfiction because Ariadne is dropped into the text apropos nothing. Who is she? What does she look like? On my own I have to guess her relationship to these other characters.
So I guess we're just skipping over important character-developing backstory???? And are just given a recap via a 'last week's episode' review? Okay.
Called it
I was under the impression we lost the recipe like 1000 years ago but sure.
A specter is haunting the Internet â the specter of the âalt-right.â The forces of white supremacy and toxic masculinity, fueled by a senseâŚ
"Last week, I gave two lectures about my research on Classics and the manosphere. Both times, people asked me afterwards, âBut what can we do?â I donât have an answer to that question that Iâm completely satisfied with. But I do have a few ideas, and I hope we can start a dialogue within the discipline to discuss the problems further.
When you hear someone âbe they a student, a colleague, or an amateur â say that they are interested in Classics because of âthe Greek miracleâ or because Classics is âthe foundation of Western civilization and culture,â challenge that viewpoint respectfully but forcefully. Engage them on their assumed definitions of âfoundation,â âWestern,â âcivilization,â and âculture.â Point out that such ideas are a slippery slope to white supremacy. Seek better reasons for studying Classics.
In your scholarship, focus on the parts of antiquity that arenât elite white men. Read and cite the work of scholars who write about race, gender, and class in the ancient world. Be open about the marginalization and bias that exists within our discipline. Model a kind of Classics that isnât quite so congenial to the neo-Nazis of the Alt-Right.
As the Alt-Right becomes more vocal and normalized, we may face pressure to frame our research and teaching in a way that will appeal to this new audience of Classics enthusiasts. Resist that pressure.
Do not write content for these men. Sometimes they publish articles such as âMate, Hate is Great! A Philosophical Defense of Misogynyâ; if you are approached to contribute to such a blog, refuse and write about the incident instead.
Consider coming out in support of progressive student and community movements. Classics has a long history of regressive politics, and if we are serious about social justice and activism, we must speak out.
Write to professional Classics organizations, including the Society for Classical Studies, and encourage them to take a stand against these groups. Samuel Huskey has written and shared a lovely example of such a letter.
If you are so inclined, engage with the classical reception that these men produce. There is a narrative blooming that you can see in that Breitbart Guide to the Alt-Right, where the writers claim, âSkinheads, by and large, are low-information, low-IQ thugs driven by the thrill of violence and tribal hatred. The alternative right are a much smarter group of people â which perhaps suggests why the Left hates them so much. Theyâre dangerously bright.â But the Alt-Right are not âdangerously bright.â They are young men â if youâll excuse the pun, the kids are alt-right â whose inane readings of classical texts often provide a window into their intellectual shortcomings."
A slightly dated but still wholely relevant article calling out the alt-right's love of The Classicsâ˘.
The alt-right is here in the Classics Tumblr space. Let them know they're not wanted. Push pack. Resist their propaganda.