Nusi2004

the op linked the study in the replies & i’ve been skimming it & it’s actually rlly rlly interesting to think abt

in the appendix (which you can find by scrolling down) CA:TWS is listed as having one torture scene, which immediately made me wonder because there are two that I can think of.

further on in the appendix when the authors are discussing the criteria for including torture, they give the vault scene in CA:TWS as an example of a scene that isn't torture, with the justification that Bucky seems to comply with his captors, and given the information shown on screen we can't conclude whether or not Bucky is a willing participant in the "wipe." Willing participants cannot be tortured, therefore the vault scene is not counted as torture

That is a WILD take on that scene. "doesn't fight back" does not equal "not being tortured" come on now

now, I could see disqualifying the vault scene as being a torture scene on the basis that the purpose of the "wipe" is not to inflict pain, it just happens to be an extremely painful process.

That's an interesting take. Is doing something incredibly painful or distressing to a person torture when there is ostensibly a secondary purpose to the painful thing, even though it also clearly doubles as a way of inflicting suffering and asserting power? This is a really important question to answer, since a lot of instances of torture and mistreatment in prisons and military situations etc. seem to fall under this. e.g. a strip search is nominally for "security" purposes, but it is also forced nudity which is a common form of sexual violence inflicted as part of torture.

But disqualifying the scene because there is not enough evidence that Bucky is being coerced to do it is nuts, since immediately prior Bucky gets slapped in the face for not answering a question and doesn't retaliate, and immediately before that Bucky gets a bunch of guns pointed at him when he acts up

That's another important question. Does being forced to comply with or participate in your own torture disqualify it from being torture?

The answer is, to me, obviously no, and in fact this seems like a relatively common feature of torture: e.g. forcing prisoners to dig their own graves requires a good amount of compliance from the victim and that's a major reason why it's so distressing

This is part of why Eve!Lilith!Alastor went after the old Overlords, because Lilith!Eve had been using them to actively make Hell worse. He took the deal with Rosie as they had been friends at one point, only to realize after he died that Rosie was now working with Lilith!Eve.

I like to think this gets found out because Emily, thinking that she's being nice (and in a way she is lmao), arranges for Lilith!Eve to visit with the Hotel without either side knowing exactly what was going on (surprises are so fun! Nothing could go wrong with this!), but the second that Lilith!Eve steps through, Alastor's shadow freaks out, and Lucifer goes full King of Hell™ grabbing her as she freezes in panic and demands to know where his wife is! Charlie gets angry with him, but the safety of his wife, the woman who Fell with him, who supported him, who *loved* him, that matters more right now.

Not sure how Alastor's status would be revealed, but it comes out that Alastor was getting really damn (lol) close to being able to defeat Lilith!Eve and take back his power and status to be able to Fix Things about, oh, 8 years ago? And while Lilith!Eve didn't know that the time that Alastor was Eve!Lilith, she knew he was messing with her plans. So she tricks Heaven into thinking Hell is planning an upraising (Resist concerts), and is able to negotiate the Extermination treaty and get back into Heaven. And while she ordered Rosie to 'get Alastor out of the equation', Alastor was useful enough that Rosie pretended too, making him hide for 7 years until the next phase of whatever plan she has came about!

Ooh you know what would be fun?

Lucifer is NOT 'just a little' depressed, he's very depressed, and scornful of sinners, and neglectful of the Kingdom, and the Sins are the Sins, and the Sinners are the Sinners, and the Goetia are the Goetia, and Lilith!Eve ends up REGRETTING THIS and wanting to switch back - but her sister forced herself to reincarnate to expose her so she has no option but to do the uprising thing and use that to bargain a way into heaven. She's very selfish and self-centered and saw her sisters life as good and was jealous and didn't realise it was good in LITERAL HELL because she MADE IT THAT WAY. The issue is Lilith!Eve, not her circumstances. It's quite possible she even realises that the reason her sister was so happy and everything seemed great is because of her and her actions, and so she wants to find her reincarnation and force her to fix things, make them better so she can enjoy it. It's only fair right? Lilith is the one who convinced Lucifer to give Eve the apple She owes her!!

(Also, I prefer Charlie be a bit older because I want her raised, at least in her childhood, by her real mom, so she has those memories of her mom with Eve's hairstyle taking her to bed when she's up too late, she has that solid foundation of unconditional love and love for the kingdom she lives in.)

Eve!Lilith dies and gets to hell and finds it a shitshow. Her sister is letting the old overlords run wild, the Sins aren't ruling properly, Lucifer isn't ruling at all...so she takes steps. The old Overlords fall, Lilith!Eve does her thing and goes to relax on a beach, Eve!Lilith!Alastor starts helping her daughter with her plan (she doesn't think it will work because she doesn't think heaven will allow redemption, but a place to build community, and provide safety, to help her people become better and not hurt each other so much? She is all for it! She's also happy to know Rosie is still loyal to Charlie and Lucifer and wants her helped and protected, even if she is working for her sister now and didn't realise they were different people. (No one did. Her family, her subjects, her HUSBAND - no one realised when she changed SO COMPLETELY that she wasn't her. Alastor pretends it doesn't hurt.)

And then the whole thing gets revealed when Emily makes a portal and brings Lilith!Eve in as a surprise - and Lucifer is like 'who are you. Where is my wife.'

Or rather - not the whole thing. Just the swapping, both times. The impersonation. The reincarnation Lucifer's wife and Charlie's mother flung herself into to stop her sister from being able to impersonate her. Which means she's out there. They just need to find her.

What would his reaction be to seeing such a different version of Samael, because the personality difference is huge.

And what would his opinion be about M!Lilith.

Alastor is the same, but what would Father's reaction be to the differences between the relationship between these first humans and what's in his universe.

Oh! What would his reaction and opinion be about the relationship between Mother!Lilith, Alastor and Mother!Samael/Lucifer.

I can't help but think that he would want Mother!Samael/Lucifer and maybe M!Lilith too, I mean they weren't created by him so they could love him, right? Like Alastor!

Ooh boy! Okay so the answer to this varies depending on a) what time period Father is from and b) what time period the mother verse he drops into is from.

If he goes in now, he gets to see this Samael who is so very different from Magne and is even a different colour, how much softer Lily is, and even how Alastor is a bit softer (because he's in a softer world) and assume it is because of the differences between him and Mother. He also sees that the garden has high walls and also no predators.

I like the idea of him as a ghost and Mother noticing him cause they are both very lonely.

Lucifer: Look, darling, he grew thorns in my throat!

Lilith: Is it painful, my love?

Lucifer: *sighs happily, blood pouring out of his mouth* It's pure agony.

Lilith: Oh, you look so gorgeous covered in your own blood like that, dear. Alastor made you into a masterpiece. Come, let us get the royal painter to immortalize this image.

(Cue this painting somehow making it onto earth, titled something like "the agony of Lucifer" that explicitly tells the story of The First Man defending himself against being dragged to Hell.)

I can ABSOLUTELY see them that way, and that painting will join all the others of when Alastor got the better of them, lured them into traps or outsmarted them or escaped them.

Lucifer removes the thorns and discovers they were edited with magic to explode when exposed to the air and both he and Lilith sigh besottedly.

I know it's been 2 days since that request, but I was trying to figure out how to write it.

Ooh I'd be happy to!

Okay, first things first, I haven't decided whether this version of Fatherverse still has an awful Adam and therefore Alastor-Lilith has to deal with two awful Adam's and also Lucifer Magne, or whether its that rather then Pilot Verse being awful, its just sort of reversed from canon verse, so First Woman!Fatherverse has good!Adam and bad!Lucifer, and Motherverse has Good!Lucifer and Bad!Adam. Both could be good and I'm honestly probably gonna write both versions!

But anyway, things go pretty similarly at first, with Alastor waking up - but while he reacts BADLY to being named Adam he's alright with Lilith, but he does like Alastor, so he becomes knows as Alastor-Lilith, a name like Mary-Jane or Meryt-Re or other portmanteaus.

He also wants nothing to do with either Adam if they are both bad, or just mother!Adam if they aren't - if its good!Father!Adam he's be like 'clearly this person isn't like the asshole who hurt me so I will treat him as his unfortunately identical twin' but either way he's not gonna be sticking around...because Father will still command Man to be in Charge and Woman to follow, and Alastor will laugh and say 'absolutely not' and leave even sooner then OG Lilith - ESPECIALLY if its bad!Adam who would absolutely try to command and dominate and...how to put this...take his rights from his wife. (Alastor, when Adam can't rape him - I can't believe I'm saying this but thank fuck for the lack of free will)

Father will end up coming to regret this, because Alastor-Lilith is still his favorite, still the one he considers his child rather then his creation - but while Alalith says they should be equal, he just thinks he might have erred in putting Man over Woman and not Woman over Man.

Mother!Lucifer still falls for the First Woman, and stuff still goes down that I don't want to spoil involving the apple and Eve and how Hell is created there and what Alastor does, but you can message me if you want details.

Father!Lucifer still ALSO falls for Alastith, because Alith still gets curious and finds him in hell, but he wants nothing to do with the brutish first man and is determined to have the First Woman as his Queen.

Lucifer after waking up in heaven panics and tries to find Lilith because surely he's dreaming, right?

Meanwhile Adam wakes a few seconds first and wants to grab Al, who barely conscious, rejects him with every molecule of his body and soul and just bolts.

All the Angels (minus Lu bc he wandered off) begin panicking because the first woman just disappeared.

Alastor hides in Eden and just tries to figure out (lowkey having a breakdown) what the fuck is going on when Lucifer stumbles upon Al.

Luci recognises Al immediately and both are relieved to find someone else from their world/time and end up working together to figure out what the fuck to do.

Meanwhile God who was kinda sad that Al would never accept Adam sees Al not just talking but trusting his little joybringer and decides to ship them. After all, they will just try with Adam again and make him a new wife (and have a few words beforehand so he doesn't scare of another one before they even talked, jeez)

God really hopes their ship becomes canon. They want grandbabies!

I...actually have an AU version of Double Entry where rather then becoming the new First Man Alastor becomes the New First Woman, and he respects Lilith so he'll agree to adding her name to his and becomes known as Alastor-Lilith, or 'Avenger of the night', and he has to deal with two Adam's and also Lucifer Magne, and it's a lot of fun, so I like this idea alot!

I like both Alastor and Lucifer running into each other and realising their from the same timeline - especially if their still enemies and Lucifer is like 'ugh I wish the REAL Lilith was here she'd know what to do' and Alastor is like 'she'd also be like one day old. You cradle robber.'

So they decide that since Alastor ran, surely God will do what he did before with Lilith and make him a new wife, and that will be actual Lilith - but no it's Eve. Alastor is Lilith, and God is making it so that romantic scenes keep happening to them - and here's the thing. Lucifer regrets the apple. He hates sinners. Alastor-Lilith punches him in the face and goes and brings Eve over to the tree and explains everything to her, what the apple will do, the consequences of ti, and that offers it to her and she bites it.

So as punishment - ALASTOR is the one who can't hurt sinners. Lucifer can.

If Niffty was conceived after the Vox friendship breakup, that means she’s about 70 years old.

How about she’s the equivalent of 17 and that’s why she’s so interested in “bad boys”?

She’ll listen to Alastor if he disapproves of the boys she picks but I want Lucifer to suffer handling a teenage daughter who wants to date boys he wildly disapproves of.

Would Lucifer disapprove of Baxter?

Well, first Lucifer needs to find out he slept with Alastor.

And got him pregnant.

And the baby was Niffty.

Niffty is his daughter.

And then after he processes THAT - he suddenly realises wait, shit, considering her age - she's only 70!!! She's a baby!!! To young to date BAXTER COME HERE HE CAN'T SMITE YOU BUT HE CAN CALL THE SINS AND THE GOETIA TO DO IT!!!!!!

Ooh, this is fun! I'm assuming Lucifer is Light and Alastor Dark, and that will be hilarious because then Lucifer gets to live as God, as the one who traumatised him - would he do things differently? Not have an apple maybe? And then new!Lucifer just MAKES one, and Alastor is laughing at him...

(go ahead!)

Lol yes! Lucifer is trying to fix what he sees as his greatest mistake only to run into fate/inevitability/his younger-new-old self and his own stubbornness and pride and belief he knows better, and goes to hide in his room and make ducks until he feels better.

He comes back and finds Heaven made them Fall, panics - and finds Alastor is caring for them (which is very different form what HE and HIS Lilith experienced when they fell.

This Lucifer won't be King of Hell, because the position is already taken.)

This version of Roo isn't bound or sealed or hiding or behind the moon, he's just casually walking around making Hell to his liking.

reason 1 million why i love zukka: how extra insane it makes hakoda's family tree

No one owes artists anything.

comments on my work for the

bad depressive dips.