ao3 creates a space of toxic positivity while also not giving the proper tools to avoid negative people. If you block our mute someone they could still see your fics, which is fucking insane. If we can't restrict anyone from seeing our fics, then we can't prevent harassment over our fics.
What's even more annoying is that the archive allows a blue lock, which means that you can only view the fic if you have an account. So it's complete bullshit that we can block people from seeing our fics because they don't have an account, but we CAN'T can't block specific people like pedophiles and incest lovers from seeing our vent fics about CSA and familial abuse, when we KNOW they're going to exploit it!
They don't support free speech and safety, they only support what benefits them and other abusers. Even at the detriment of other innocent people and victims.
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i was talking about how femboy erasure isn't a big issue and mfs response is to call me a slur.
Basically I was talking about how trans women and femboys intersect. There's a lot of flow trans women and femboys, mostly from femboys becoming trans women. The post itself was an anti meme that changed a femboy to a trans woman. I didnt get the original punchline either, don't worry.
Some people called this "FeMbOy ErAsUrE" when like. Dude femboys aren't being erased by the existence of trans women. Calling the transfer from a femboy to a trans woman "erasure" is like calling a straight trans masc man "erasure" of lesbians. I mean yeah I get it but it seems like you're trying to erase trans men as well.
Putting such a strict hard line between femboys and trans women restricts peoples gender identities into clear cut boxes. Yes, there is a difference between dressing feminine and identifying as a man, and identifying as a woman despite being born a man. But a lot of a trans people find out that they identify as a woman via dressing feminine or being a "femboy".
When the people who say that femboy erasure exists are just being transphobic and calling me slurs, I'm not going to take you seriously. The people calling out femboy erasure use terms like "trap" and fetishize femboys so often. It's like they only care about femboy erasure because trans women don't get their dicks hard enough.
It's like hearing about ppl talk about men's rights. Like yeah sure the patriarchy affects men and that's something we should care about, but holy hell it's JUST being used to opress cis and trans women.* Fighting the erasure of GNC men is not inherently transphobic, but a hell of a lot of people are transphobic because trans women aren't a part of their fetish.
Edit: I originally said "women and trans women" and I intended that to mean misogyny and transphobia/transmisogyny. Misogyny affects trans women too, but cis women and trans women experience misogyny and transphobia in somewhat different ways. I changed it to "cis and trans women" now.
Also yes this person is trans and transphobic. You don't just call people slurs.
Also as of writing this, this person has just blatently been transphobic to trans men. I swear they're trolling, there's no way a trans woman can say "you'll never be a man" and not see the blatent irony.
TL;DR: the erasure of GNC men is a real problem, but the people who I see fighting against it are incredibly rude and transphobic.
Here to say that proshippers also post gore and strobe light gifs on antiship tags to make the antiship community literally dangerous to be in. I've also seen several proshippers being outed as real life groomers.
If you wanna think all antis think this from a cherry picked strawman, then all proshippers are groomers who send gore to antis.
I want to make something and I hope none of you will take it as a joke because I'm very much not. I want to make a fanfic website for antishippers/pro censorship/anti fiction. I GENUINELY want to.
You know my hatred and hostility for them, mostly and especially because they invade proship spaces. But I thought, it's impossible for them to not do so when fandoms were built by and for proshippers. And I believe that everyone should have an alternative. Ao3 is for anti censorship proshippers, a place antis can't live peacefully in, so I want to make a website for them and give it to them.
Again, I am not ironic, I hope I don't come off as such. If anyone is willing to help, or take this idea to make it themselves, absolutely free to do it, I encourage you!!!
These years I've seen what antis claim to be problematic and not allowed, so this is the list of rules I've seen and want to add to the site for every antis' comfort:
You're a minor by default when you log in, so, in order to view and post NSFW fanfics and material, you need an ID verification.
Queer representation is allowed, but only in a positive light. No internalized homotransphobia or turbulent self discovery.
No queerphobia, racism, discrimination of any kind, unless done by the really explicit bad guys.
No incestuous ships, no ships with step or half-relatives, no childhood friends to lovers.
No toxic ships, no villain/hero, no abuser/victim, no power imbalence (teacher /student, boss/employee, etc).
No age gap ships, no minor/minor, no adult/minor, in some cases not adult/adult (i.e. 18 years old woman/60 years old man).
^ No big body differences (huge height difference, young-looking-person/older-looking-person, etc).
^ No 200+ years old lolis or anything similar to that.
No zoophilia, no animal/human, no animal/animal, no furries (unless SFW).
No interspieces ships, no monster/human, no non-human/human, no alien/human (alien/alien is fine).
No interethnic ships (i.e. black person/white person).
No noncon or dubcon, only enthusiastic and explicit consent, no drunk/drugged sex (things like sex pollen is also not allowed).
^ No bad habits or bad behavior promotion or representation (drinking too much alcohol or alcoholic characters, doing drugs, smoking as something "cool" and "edgy", catcalling, molesting, etc).
No gore, no violence, no self harm, no murder. Death can be portrayed as something natural or accidental (death by illness, old age, car crash and similar).
No RPF (Real-Person Fanfic), no characters inspired by real life people.
No fetishes and kinks, especially if unsafe (i.e. piss kink, scat, public sex, etc).
Nothing that could go against the law in your country.
x reader, self insert and original stories are allowed as long as they follow all the previous rules.
Medias you're not allowed to make fanfics of:
South park
Rick and morty
FNAF
Happy Sugar Life
Boyfriends
The coffin of Andrew and LeyLey
Lolita
Harry Potter
Heartstopper
Helluva Boss
Hazbin Hotel
Doki Doki Literature Club
Yarichin bitch club
Dragon Maid
Miss Nagatoro
Greek mythology
I'm sorry I don't know what else put. If anyone helps me with the website, we can work on that together!
Anything that would go against the rules, will be deleted and the author banned, of course.
If anyone wanna help, I'm more than happy to work with you! I'll step back the second the site is done, and give it in the hands of an actual antishipper. I want to make a site for all of you to live happily in!
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Anya is LIVE right now
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I want to make something and I hope none of you will take it as a joke because I'm very much not. I want to make a fanfic website for antishippers/pro censorship/anti fiction. I GENUINELY want to.
You know my hatred and hostility for them, mostly and especially because they invade proship spaces. But I thought, it's impossible for them to not do so when fandoms were built by and for proshippers. And I believe that everyone should have an alternative. Ao3 is for anti censorship proshippers, a place antis can't live peacefully in, so I want to make a website for them and give it to them.
Again, I am not ironic, I hope I don't come off as such. If anyone is willing to help, or take this idea to make it themselves, absolutely free to do it, I encourage you!!!
These years I've seen what antis claim to be problematic and not allowed, so this is the list of rules I've seen and want to add to the site for every antis' comfort:
You're a minor by default when you log in, so, in order to view and post NSFW fanfics and material, you need an ID verification.
Queer representation is allowed, but only in a positive light. No internalized homotransphobia or turbulent self discovery.
No queerphobia, racism, discrimination of any kind, unless done by the really explicit bad guys.
No incestuous ships, no ships with step or half-relatives, no childhood friends to lovers.
No toxic ships, no villain/hero, no abuser/victim, no power imbalence (teacher /student, boss/employee, etc).
No age gap ships, no minor/minor, no adult/minor, in some cases not adult/adult (i.e. 18 years old woman/60 years old man).
^ No big body differences (huge height difference, young-looking-person/older-looking-person, etc).
^ No 200+ years old lolis or anything similar to that.
No zoophilia, no animal/human, no animal/animal, no furries (unless SFW).
No interspieces ships, no monster/human, no non-human/human, no alien/human (alien/alien is fine).
No interethnic ships (i.e. black person/white person).
No noncon or dubcon, only enthusiastic and explicit consent, no drunk/drugged sex (things like sex pollen is also not allowed).
^ No bad habits or bad behavior promotion or representation (drinking too much alcohol or alcoholic characters, doing drugs, smoking as something "cool" and "edgy", catcalling, molesting, etc).
No gore, no violence, no self harm, no murder. Death can be portrayed as something natural or accidental (death by illness, old age, car crash and similar).
No RPF (Real-Person Fanfic), no characters inspired by real life people.
No fetishes and kinks, especially if unsafe (i.e. piss kink, scat, public sex, etc).
Nothing that could go against the law in your country.
x reader, self insert and original stories are allowed as long as they follow all the previous rules.
Medias you're not allowed to make fanfics of:
South park
Rick and morty
FNAF
Happy Sugar Life
Boyfriends
The coffin of Andrew and LeyLey
Lolita
Harry Potter
Heartstopper
Helluva Boss
Hazbin Hotel
Doki Doki Literature Club
Yarichin bitch club
Dragon Maid
Miss Nagatoro
Greek mythology
I'm sorry I don't know what else put. If anyone helps me with the website, we can work on that together!
Anything that would go against the rules, will be deleted and the author banned, of course.
If anyone wanna help, I'm more than happy to work with you! I'll step back the second the site is done, and give it in the hands of an actual antishipper. I want to make a site for all of you to live happily in!
(1.0) I apologize if I sound rude here at any point, but as a person who is knee deep in antiship culture, 90% of what you're listing here isn't what I see antis wanting. Also this is a long ass post so I'm adding dividers. I don't know if that's dumb or not. Note that a (x.0) means it's a introduction/transition paragraph.
(1.1) Firstly, having a definition of anti-shipping is important to note at the start. In my opinion antishipping is having moral boundaries in fiction, as in, certain things should not be romanticized, or sometimes even depicted in fiction. Mainly leaning towards the "shouldn't be romanticized" because I don't see a lot of antishippers complain about media that properly portrays abuse as bad. They mainly complain about the "uwu look at this kid and his 30 year old husband".
(1.2) A person could LOVE incest, but if they draw the line at lolicon/shotacon, they could qualify as an antishipper. They may get ostracized by the community, but they can still be considered an antishipper. They can also be considered a proshipper because they're fine with incest.
(1.3) This is why it's hard to make an antishipper site. Because not everyone agrees on the same moral values in fiction. So to making antiship site, you would need some level of compromise.
(2.0) I'm going to diverge this segment into talking about the specifics of your post because I don't think a majority of antis would enjoy this site.
(2.1) Giving your legal personal information is not a good idea for ANY site. I get that antis don't want kids to be sharing/reading smut, but I don't think they'd go THAT far.
(2.2) Good queer/minority representation doesn't seem to be a major issue for antiship spaces.
(2.3) "No discrimination against minorities unless done by this villains" is... Odd? They don't have to be villains, it's just that their discrimination shouldn't be seen as a good thing.
(2.4) While I do think that incest shouldn't be allowed on an antiship site, I don't think that childhood friends to lovers counts as incest, or even incest adjacent. Childhood friends to lovers isn't even a bad thing in real life, so it doesn't need to be discouraged in fiction.
(2.5) I've seen several antishippers justify toxic ships. While there is a power imbalance, they're both adults so a lot of people have less of a problem with it.
(2.6) Obviously no adult x minor, but age gaps are tricky.
(2.7) I don't... Get the body type differences. I'm mainly anti adults looking like children to justify being attracted to what looks like children. I haven't personally seen people complain about this so I don't know if it would be a big enough issue to not allow it on the site.
(2.8) Furries are a scale of good to bad. People have very differing opinions on what considers it to be zoophilia or not, but generally they seem to be fine with more anthro furry NSFW. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiship/comments/1hu6ocw/opinions_on_furry_nsfw/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/antiship/comments/1kz9ftd/wear_do_you_draw_the_line_between_anthromonster/
(2.9) This is a scale. An alien that's just a woman with blue skin is likely not going to be persecuted by antishippers. But at the same time there are people who would not like it if someone was attracted to a facehugger.
(2.10) (Yes I know the decimal is technically incorrect). This is just racism. I don't know what kind of antishipper told you that interracial/interethnic ships were bad, but they were certainly a racist one. I mean they're still an antishipper but also a racist antishipper.
(2.11) I understand the noncon/dubcon and drunk sex despite being a CNC tolerater (?), but I think heat and sex pollen is where this is complicated. Also a scale thing that'll be mentioned later.
(2.12) Depections themselves aren't morally wrong. I mainly see antis complaining about the romanticization.
(2.13) I haven't seen an antishipper argue this, and I've even seen several argue against the "violent video games are bad" while also saying that stuff like lolicon and incest is bad.
(2.14) No RFP in general is something many antis can agree on cuz it involves real life people but characters based off of real life people are a bit more dubious and probably fine depending on how detached they are. Also I've seen anri RPF people argue that people should make their OCS based off real people instead of writing fanfiction about real people. Link: https://www.tumblr.com/unholy-lover1985/806672113406787584/y(2.15) It depends for unsafe kinks but I don't think stuff like piss kinks is morally bad. I understand what someone wouldn't want to see it in their feed, but I don't know how many people would say that it shouldn't exist.
(2.16) No negative notes. This can get iffy because a website is typically based within a certain country and there are people all across the globe who access it, but this is an issue that could apply to most global websites.
(2.17) Not everyone has an issue with these fandoms in particular. I think this is something that should be tagged and blocked if they feel uncomfortable with it or feel that it is immoral, but not everyone thinks it is immoral.
Also I'm going to make the preposition for the site (paragraph 3.0+) in another reblog because this is really long.
I'm dropping the parenthesis because it's annoying to write.
3.0. Ok, so. Now about the first draft for the site. First of all, I want to say that I'm a very "chill" anti shipper. My personal boundary is that if it can be role-played in real life and it's okay to romanticize in fiction as long as people know what they're doing. For example, I'm a lot more lenient towards non-con because CNC exists, so people can enjoy non-con in a safe way. But I also acknowledged that not everyone feels that way.
3.1. Also something to note most antis are on the younger side. Possibly even minors. So getting funding and proper moderation for the site will be difficult. I also recommend going to the antishipper subreddit or antishipper tumblr tags in order to find more antishipper opinions and possible moderators for the site.
3.2. What's allowed on the site.So generally I think that most things should be allowed on the site. The main things that shouldn't be allowed are lolicon and shotacon, feral bestiality, necrophilia (zombies don't count if they can consent). More can be added. This is what I thought of at the time of writing this.
3.2a. We kind of have to allow a lot of things and then just have a really thorough tagging and blocking system because a lot of antis are very different preferences. A lot of antis just want "Ao3 but with no lolicon or RFP of real minors" and a lot of antis want "Ao3 with no ships containing (list, including stuff like childhood friends lovers.)"
3.2b. Since we're allowing a lot of things on the site, there should be a thorough tagging, filtering and blocking system because I know a lot of antis don't agree on what is good and what is bad. For starters, the warnings tag, similar to that on AO3, would be greatly expanded. It would include age gaps, discrimination, and varying sorts of kinks like non-con or scat.
3.2c. No tag should be hard-coded to be un-taggeable on the site. Yes, you can technically tag something with an age gap of 16 and 30, but if you tag a fic with that then a subject being recorded to changing the tag or moving the fact if it actually contains that 16 and 30 age gap.
Also I'm adding a line here because there's like 30 paragraphs. That's not an exaggeration. I counted.
3.3. Profile/blocking and filtering
3.3a. Description. I think the profiles should have descriptions and in those descriptions people should say what they're fine and not fine with. DNIs are allowed and encouraged, but people should know that DNIs are not magic and are mainly just a reason/warning for people within that category to not interact with you.
3.3b. No NSFW in your profile picture. Probably no profanity in your username or description. So no swear words or terms like "incest lover". Basically things that you would allow as a YouTube channel name
3.3c. people should be able to block a tag and then automatically block the creator with any fic with that tag. Basically, if an author has a fanfiction with an age gap of 20/30 and a reader does not want to read an age gap of 20/30, they can block that tag and then they will automatically block that creator. This will be optional or could be adjusted in settings of course.
3.3d. Users can permanently block a tag or a warning for all of your searches. You do not think anything special like a site skin or to filter it out every time I try to look up that tag.
3.3e. Users can block/mute other users, much like Ao3. They can mute them if they personally don't want them to see their fics, and they can block them if they don't want to see their fics and don't want that person to be able to see their fics or interact with them.
3.3f. No harassment/vulgar rudeness to other users. This includes saying things like "fuck proshitters" in your tags, fic, or anything really. It's just unnecessary. Also, you shouldn't be allowed to write a fanfiction that's just being violent against a real life person that you specifically hate. I don't know how that would be moderated though.
3.4. Tagging system with ages.
3.4a. Whenever you list a character in a fic, you should list an age or at least an age range. The way that this would work when tagging or filtering is that there is a parent tag of the character and a child tag of every age that they have been tagged as. So for example, Byron from Brawlstars would have the tag Byron (Brawlstars) that you could block or search up. It will also have smaller tags like Byron (Brawlstars)<16, Byron (Brawlstars)47, Byron (Brawlstars)>52 that you could also block or filter, but looking up Byron from Brawlstars by will come up with all three results by default.
3.4b. Age gaps. You see,"age gaps" also can be anything from 16/18, 18/20, 18/30, to 30/60. Because of how much diversity there is in age gaps, each age kept warning tag will have a parent warning tag for an age gap, and a child warning tag of how big that age gap is and how old the characters are. So the parent tag would be "Age Gap" and the child tag would be "Age Gap (20/25)".
3.4c. Fics will also be tagged with a warning if they age up or down a character. This will be mostly decide by the author. Byron does not have a canonical age but he's heavily implied to be old, at least 50s. But this matters a lot more with characters like Edgar who is canonically 16 or around teenager age. Many antis think that aging up a character like Edgar from 16-ish to 18 or 20 then making a smut them is problematic. Not every anti thinks that. I don't think it's bad enough to be banned, but I think that it should have a warning.
3.5. Furries and aliens
3.5a. So first of all, anything non-human has to pass the Harkness test if it's involved in NSFW. It is not have to pass the Harkness test if it is not sexualized and not involved in any graphic sexual acts or art/images. The Harkness test is: One, is it adult for its species? Two, can it consent? Three, can it verbally communicate the consent with the human?
3.5b. For furries specifically, there will be a chart of how humanoid or anthropomorphic they are. The level of anatomorphic they are will be listed on their character tag and can change from fic to fic. NSFW of ferals will not be allowed, but anthros will be. Discussion will be had on where exactly the line is drawn.
3.5c. Dragons, fantasy creatures, and Pokemon. Dragons will still need to pass the Harkness test, there may be more leeway when coming to the anthro/feral (NSFW) scale because dragons do not exist in real life. This part is REALLY underdeveloped because I'm not a big fantasy person. Because generally dragons are sentient and sapient enough to consent, but they're also technically feral because they're entirely dragon and barely human. But at the same time dragons don't really exist. Reptiles exist but they're not really like dragons.
3.5d. Pokemon. Pokemon are really tricky. Obviously, Gardevoir and Lopunny are not going to encourage beastiality, but I don't think that Rattata or Eevee smut should be allowed. For PokĂŠmon, it will be assumed that they ALL pass the Harkness test, so whether it's allowed on the site will be mainly based off of how anthropomorphic or feral they are.
3.5e. Aliens. Generally aliens, even "feral" aliens like the face hugger, will be allowed to make smut of because most aliens don't exist in a way that can be abused in real life. I don't even know what the attraction to a face hugger could even lead to. The closer I think of is people role-playing as aliens in real life, which isn't harmful. They should pass the Harkness test though.
3.6. Kink and BDSM.
3.6a. First of all, any kink would be allowed as long as people acknowledge the effects of that kink. If people have a water sports kink then they should know the dangers/the effects of water sports in real life. If people have a CNC kink, then they should know how to contributes to rape culture and how to properly express their CNC kink in a way that reduces the most amount of harm.
3.6b. Elephant in the room. I don't know if non-con should be allowed or not. It probably shouldn't be. I think that CNC should be allowed. Even though incest could probably be consensually role-played, it should only be allowed if it's explicitly an incest roleplay, but even then it should be properly warned and tagged explicit in the story that they aren't actually siblings. Once again, I am a VERY lenient anti, so many antis may not agree with this.3.7. Violence.
3.7a. look I don't know man. Just tag it and don't be racist or anything. Also no racial or homophobic slurs in just any fiction or description. Discussion will be had on whether or not reclaiming slurs/slurs used in a non-discriminatory manner can be allowed. But generally slurs shouldn't be allowed. This is because we don't know who is behind the screen and they usually shouldn't give out their personal information just to say stuff. If a black person gets to say the n word on the site, we don't really have a tests to see if they're black or not. So that essentially means that white people can to say the n word as well because we're not going to require people give the site their IDs or personal pictures to determine if they can say slurs or not.
4.0. Work in progress - Acid/base levels.I know the title doesn't make any sense. Just bear with me. As you know, I want to allow a lot of different things of varying levels of morality to accommodate for the very different antishippers that will be on the site. I plan to have a ranking system based off the ranking system of acid that displays how disturbing or problematic a subject/tag, fic, or author may be. Know that this specific ranking system is a VERY early draft and not reviewed by any antishipper.
A negative would be things that aren't even legal, like actual real life CSAM or beastiality pictures.
A zero would be things that aren't allowed on the site. Real person fiction, lolicon, bestiality and necrophilia. Generally, pictures of real life people shouldn't be allowed on the site. At all. Whether or not they're celebrities or people who didn't consent to their direct pictures being used in the fic.
Nothing above zero has been fully decided yet. The reason why zero is the worst is because there's a limit to how bad fiction can be, but there is a much bigger scale between what is good and what is bad.Users on the site will be able to add that acid number to their profile, their fics, and their specific warning tags on that fic. Obviously, users will be able to filter based on these numbers.
I want to make something and I hope none of you will take it as a joke because I'm very much not. I want to make a fanfic website for antishippers/pro censorship/anti fiction. I GENUINELY want to.
You know my hatred and hostility for them, mostly and especially because they invade proship spaces. But I thought, it's impossible for them to not do so when fandoms were built by and for proshippers. And I believe that everyone should have an alternative. Ao3 is for anti censorship proshippers, a place antis can't live peacefully in, so I want to make a website for them and give it to them.
Again, I am not ironic, I hope I don't come off as such. If anyone is willing to help, or take this idea to make it themselves, absolutely free to do it, I encourage you!!!
These years I've seen what antis claim to be problematic and not allowed, so this is the list of rules I've seen and want to add to the site for every antis' comfort:
You're a minor by default when you log in, so, in order to view and post NSFW fanfics and material, you need an ID verification.
Queer representation is allowed, but only in a positive light. No internalized homotransphobia or turbulent self discovery.
No queerphobia, racism, discrimination of any kind, unless done by the really explicit bad guys.
No incestuous ships, no ships with step or half-relatives, no childhood friends to lovers.
No toxic ships, no villain/hero, no abuser/victim, no power imbalence (teacher /student, boss/employee, etc).
No age gap ships, no minor/minor, no adult/minor, in some cases not adult/adult (i.e. 18 years old woman/60 years old man).
^ No big body differences (huge height difference, young-looking-person/older-looking-person, etc).
^ No 200+ years old lolis or anything similar to that.
No zoophilia, no animal/human, no animal/animal, no furries (unless SFW).
No interspieces ships, no monster/human, no non-human/human, no alien/human (alien/alien is fine).
No interethnic ships (i.e. black person/white person).
No noncon or dubcon, only enthusiastic and explicit consent, no drunk/drugged sex (things like sex pollen is also not allowed).
^ No bad habits or bad behavior promotion or representation (drinking too much alcohol or alcoholic characters, doing drugs, smoking as something "cool" and "edgy", catcalling, molesting, etc).
No gore, no violence, no self harm, no murder. Death can be portrayed as something natural or accidental (death by illness, old age, car crash and similar).
No RPF (Real-Person Fanfic), no characters inspired by real life people.
No fetishes and kinks, especially if unsafe (i.e. piss kink, scat, public sex, etc).
Nothing that could go against the law in your country.
x reader, self insert and original stories are allowed as long as they follow all the previous rules.
Medias you're not allowed to make fanfics of:
South park
Rick and morty
FNAF
Happy Sugar Life
Boyfriends
The coffin of Andrew and LeyLey
Lolita
Harry Potter
Heartstopper
Helluva Boss
Hazbin Hotel
Doki Doki Literature Club
Yarichin bitch club
Dragon Maid
Miss Nagatoro
Greek mythology
I'm sorry I don't know what else put. If anyone helps me with the website, we can work on that together!
Anything that would go against the rules, will be deleted and the author banned, of course.
If anyone wanna help, I'm more than happy to work with you! I'll step back the second the site is done, and give it in the hands of an actual antishipper. I want to make a site for all of you to live happily in!
(1.0) I apologize if I sound rude here at any point, but as a person who is knee deep in antiship culture, 90% of what you're listing here isn't what I see antis wanting. Also this is a long ass post so I'm adding dividers. I don't know if that's dumb or not. Note that a (x.0) means it's a introduction/transition paragraph.
(1.1) Firstly, having a definition of anti-shipping is important to note at the start. In my opinion antishipping is having moral boundaries in fiction, as in, certain things should not be romanticized, or sometimes even depicted in fiction. Mainly leaning towards the "shouldn't be romanticized" because I don't see a lot of antishippers complain about media that properly portrays abuse as bad. They mainly complain about the "uwu look at this kid and his 30 year old husband".
(1.2) A person could LOVE incest, but if they draw the line at lolicon/shotacon, they could qualify as an antishipper. They may get ostracized by the community, but they can still be considered an antishipper. They can also be considered a proshipper because they're fine with incest.
(1.3) This is why it's hard to make an antishipper site. Because not everyone agrees on the same moral values in fiction. So to making antiship site, you would need some level of compromise.
(2.0) I'm going to diverge this segment into talking about the specifics of your post because I don't think a majority of antis would enjoy this site.
(2.1) Giving your legal personal information is not a good idea for ANY site. I get that antis don't want kids to be sharing/reading smut, but I don't think they'd go THAT far.
(2.2) Good queer/minority representation doesn't seem to be a major issue for antiship spaces.
(2.3) "No discrimination against minorities unless done by this villains" is... Odd? They don't have to be villains, it's just that their discrimination shouldn't be seen as a good thing.
(2.4) While I do think that incest shouldn't be allowed on an antiship site, I don't think that childhood friends to lovers counts as incest, or even incest adjacent. Childhood friends to lovers isn't even a bad thing in real life, so it doesn't need to be discouraged in fiction.
(2.5) I've seen several antishippers justify toxic ships. While there is a power imbalance, they're both adults so a lot of people have less of a problem with it.
(2.6) Obviously no adult x minor, but age gaps are tricky.
(2.7) I don't... Get the body type differences. I'm mainly anti adults looking like children to justify being attracted to what looks like children. I haven't personally seen people complain about this so I don't know if it would be a big enough issue to not allow it on the site.
(2.8) Furries are a scale of good to bad. People have very differing opinions on what considers it to be zoophilia or not, but generally they seem to be fine with more anthro furry NSFW. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiship/comments/1hu6ocw/opinions_on_furry_nsfw/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/antiship/comments/1kz9ftd/wear_do_you_draw_the_line_between_anthromonster/
(2.9) This is a scale. An alien that's just a woman with blue skin is likely not going to be persecuted by antishippers. But at the same time there are people who would not like it if someone was attracted to a facehugger.
(2.10) (Yes I know the decimal is technically incorrect). This is just racism. I don't know what kind of antishipper told you that interracial/interethnic ships were bad, but they were certainly a racist one. I mean they're still an antishipper but also a racist antishipper.
(2.11) I understand the noncon/dubcon and drunk sex despite being a CNC tolerater (?), but I think heat and sex pollen is where this is complicated. Also a scale thing that'll be mentioned later.
(2.12) Depections themselves aren't morally wrong. I mainly see antis complaining about the romanticization.
(2.13) I haven't seen an antishipper argue this, and I've even seen several argue against the "violent video games are bad" while also saying that stuff like lolicon and incest is bad.
(2.14) No RFP in general is something many antis can agree on cuz it involves real life people but characters based off of real life people are a bit more dubious and probably fine depending on how detached they are. Also I've seen anri RPF people argue that people should make their OCS based off real people instead of writing fanfiction about real people. Link: https://www.tumblr.com/unholy-lover1985/806672113406787584/y(2.15) It depends for unsafe kinks but I don't think stuff like piss kinks is morally bad. I understand what someone wouldn't want to see it in their feed, but I don't know how many people would say that it shouldn't exist.
(2.16) No negative notes. This can get iffy because a website is typically based within a certain country and there are people all across the globe who access it, but this is an issue that could apply to most global websites.
(2.17) Not everyone has an issue with these fandoms in particular. I think this is something that should be tagged and blocked if they feel uncomfortable with it or feel that it is immoral, but not everyone thinks it is immoral.
Also I'm going to make the preposition for the site (paragraph 3.0+) in another reblog because this is really long.
I am so fucking pissed off right now oh my god I am about to pop a blood vessel
Normative vs positive in economics has such a bullshit distinction. Normative is the "ought to be" and positive is "what's objectively happening" which is such bullshit considering how positive mostly means good, happy, feeling, perspective; normative mostly means normal, norms, neutral, common, fitting a mold. NONE of those descriptions actually match what these godforsaken words are used for in economics.
Normative is not an opinion, normative is not a choice, it's just a pattern. It's just common. It's just existing. Y'know, like an objective description of an event.
Positive is happy. There. Free. Good. I've even heard several people say the only way they remembered positive statements as objective description was "I'm happy it happened" SEE?? Even THEY admit that positive is joyous, not objective.
I don't give a fuck what some 200 year old man made up in his head about words that got twisted to mean what they don't mean. In what fucking world is positive objective. Norms are not good, or better, or inspire change, in fact, they do the exact opposite. You can't just juxtapose normal and positive and expect people to go hurr durr normal is opinionnn, positive is objectiveeee that's now how it fucking works.
And you wanna know the most insane part about this? EVERYONE acts like I'm a madman for this, a fucking lunatic. Maybe I wouldn't be such an ass if people were willing to believe and listen to me, maybe I would be more convincing if people actually listened to what words I say and what they mean. But NoOoOo I get shut down and buried alive because I think positive is positive and normal means normal.
I'm doing this for the people who agree with my points and feel like they're insane because nobody has come to the same logical conclusion as them. If you're going to argue against literally anything I said here, then shut it. I've already heard you 500 times. I'm not listening to you for 501.
fandom hot take: fanfiction is the equivalent of junk food for media literacy
Most media has a bigger point to them, e.g. superhero media is often about protecting the vulnerable and how the power we have should be used for good. They tell these messages through stories, and in stories people need to, y'know, do actions, have relationships, have those little moments where they do some tiny think that reveals a lot about their character.
But a lot of the fanfiction I see focuses on those actions, relationships, and little moments and doesn't involve a deeper meaning besides "it seemed cool for them to cook together". This isn't a bad thing by itself, but it isn't good for media literacy to ONLY focus on those little details. Like junk food. You can eat junk food in moderation.
And this isn't specific to fanfiction entirely. Most fanfiction is junk food, but not all junk food is fanfiction. Doom games are often seen as not having a deeper point or life lesson, and either way the audience isn't looking into it to find a deeper point. Doom is media literacy junk food, but once again, junk food is still fine to consume and create. It just isn't the best think to ONLY consume and create junk food.
okay then no more toxic yaoi/yuri for you, no more gravity falls either because the creator supports proships so by definition is a proshipper (anti harassment) you cant ship and dc ship you cant ship v x eve from v for vendetta, dont have any rare pairs or cross ships cause those are comships no monster x human or any species x human so that means madoka x homura is a proship, you cant watch ouran host club cause of the twincest you cant use ao3 because its anti censorship age gaps are out of the question because that fits under comship which is a form of proshipping no mr boss x allan cause power dynamic no enemies to lovers cause thats abuse, no cannibal ships, you cant ship anybody who is disabled with someone who isnt cause thats a power imbalence and in some cases is seen as pedophilac no tsundere ships also priest x demon is a no no preist x anybody who isnt a preist you can selfship with an adult character if youre a minor cause thats pedophilia is horrible and dont even THINK of liking any form of selfcest cause thats incest
see how boring every ship is when you really put it into words
censorship is stupid so stop pushing it in fandom spaces
look I know it's "antis dni" but what I'm about to say could be said by either pro or anti. you shouldn't put fandom labels on people not involved in the fandom. Alex Hirsch chooses not to interact with shipping part of the fandom, that doesn't make him proship.
In fact I think calling him proship is contradictory and/or misleading to call him proship and it misses the entire point of his opinion and his tweets. He doesn't interact with shipping because media is more than romance, so you put a "pro-all romance options in fiction" label on him.
I could care less for the wars that the bugs have underneath my backyard. That doesn't put me on either side of the fights. If he's anything he's a "non-shipper" or something.
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Hearing that Ao3 had and AI data scrape is like hearing that the Epstein Island got bombed.
If anything that's transformative and legal is allowed to exist on Ao3, then anything transformative and legal is allowed to happen with Ao3's content. This is literally what you signed up for.
"But AI scraping is stealing" and smut RFP of underage actors is harassment. AI scraping is legal. The only possible justification someone could have for explicit RFP of minors is that it's technically legal. If people on Ao3 should tolerate the existence of underage smut RFP because it's legal, then people should tolerate AI scraping because it's legal.
The scraping itself isn't transformative, but it's also not really affecting the site itself. Nobody's fics are taken down because of scraping and I don't think the site its lagging because of AI scraping.
If you're allowed to block things because they're morally wrong, then remove the explicit child smut off your platform.
And did i really just compare bombing to ai scraping? Did i really just compare the destruction of land, innocent abused humans and natural life to ai scraping?
Pedophiles can choose to express their pedophilia through smut or abusing children, but they're both still pedophiles. Epstein in this context is a more exaggerated version of a person writing child smut. Still related, one is just more extreme.
It's hyperbole on both ends. Ai scraping, while not good, isn't killing anyone. If I'm watering down (C)SA, then I'm also watering down bombings but you conveniently didn't mention that. Don't play dumb.
Hearing that Ao3 had and AI data scrape is like hearing that the Epstein Island got bombed.
If anything that's transformative and legal is allowed to exist on Ao3, then anything transformative and legal is allowed to happen with Ao3's content. This is literally what you signed up for.
"But AI scraping is stealing" and smut RFP of underage actors is harassment. AI scraping is legal. The only possible justification someone could have for explicit RFP of minors is that it's technically legal. If people on Ao3 should tolerate the existence of underage smut RFP because it's legal, then people should tolerate AI scraping because it's legal.
The scraping itself isn't transformative, but it's also not really affecting the site itself. Nobody's fics are taken down because of scraping and I don't think the site its lagging because of AI scraping.
If you're allowed to block things because they're morally wrong, then remove the explicit child smut off your platform.
your incest toddlercon torture-rape fic is not "queer writing". it is wanabe baby rapist writing. stop calling it queer writing. it is not queer to wanna rape toddlers
honestly I donât even care why ao3 was created, if you defend their policy of not deleting horrible works, or are otherwise completely uncritical/forgiving of their mistakes because âbut theyâre by fans for fansâ, youâre a piece of shit
horrible tropes and abuse have always been a part of fandom and fanworks, but itâs super gross that a bunch of fandom elders (who are most likely at least in their thirties) continue the tradition of citing âdonât like donât readâ as a good enough excuse to write child porn, abuse, rape, sexual slavery, etc. AND they collect thousands of dollars each year to fund this through donations
like. they are literally putting money into abusive content being published on their site. where people of any age, even pre-teens, can access it. for example, I could never report people posting alec/women stuff despite it being homophobic, because it doesnât violate their terms. I canât report pretty much anything, because as long as youâre not plagiarizing, itâs all good
yeah, ao3 is great as a concept, but allowing abusive, homophobic, racist, etc. material to be published on your site because âfuck the pc police/moral crusadersâ is appalling and fuck ao3 tbh. not to mention theyâve had really disgusting people as members on their board, so itâs pretty obvious what kind of people are in charge of this site
Look, you can absolutely make the argument that ff.netâs content policies go too far, and Iâd probably agree with you. But Ao3â˛s content policies definitely go too far in the opposite direction. I like Ao3 as a platform, I like how itâs structured, and its tagging and filtering systems make it easy to find what youâre looking for. But when your fandom content-hosting site is giving things like pedophilia free access to an uncritical platform, you really need to take a step back and re-examine your policies.
Quick point. Nothing Iâve seen attacked or labeled as âpedophiliaâ on Ao3 has actually been anywhere near what reasonable people would consider pedophilia or child sexual abuse (sexual encounters/depictions involving prepubescent children) Too many people are using the term pedophilia to mean âship I donât like and because I donât it itâs dirtybadwrong/pedophiliaâ People have even used the term to attack a ship involving 2 middle-aged men because some people had the wrong man on top. Speaking as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse(starting when I was five) please stop throwing around the word pedophilia and devaluing its meaning.
No. Pedophilia fics exist on AO3. It's literally tagged as "underage" or "underage sex". The "lolicon" tag exists on AO3 and the fics using it don't get banned.
Stop spreading lies. It's bafflingly easy to disprove them.
You're a MAP. Unless you're actively working on fixing your issue, you deserve the shame. People who are open and proud about being pedophiles do not deserve kindness. Pedophilia only harms you and the kids active pedophiles abuse.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think saying you're attracted to someone while biting your lip implies that the attraction is sexual. And it doesn't make it better when you're complacent to the people who are blatantly making it sexual. So don't get so defensive when ppl call you out for biting your lip to a teenager???
All this attention giving to people saying "being attracted to a minor is wrong" but none of these people got called out by the poster or people defending them
There's a difference between calling a kid cute or pretty or beautiful and calling them attractive while biting your lip. The fact that he's older and looks more mature makes this less bad, but being openly attracted to teenagers is still disgusting.
