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Shane Hollander routinely uses sunscreen(for safety against skin cancer) and washes his face with a sensitive skin friendly soap in the shower. He uses the same bar for his entire body.

Beyond that his smooth skin is entirely coincidental. Ilya is very jealous of this. Ilya wears hair products, styles himself meticulously and has tried multiple skincare routines. None of which are giving him the supple skin he desires.

The first time Ilya goes to Shane's real apartment and not the sex condo he is outraged by the number of unused samples of skincare products, mostly because these brands are choosing to work with Shane when he knows for a fact that Shane does nothing to properly take care of his skin.

Shane's bathroom sink is barren.

Shane *enters Ilya's bathroom*: why do you have so much clutter in here

Ilya *outraged*: is not clutter Hollander we did not all climb out of womb and become world's prettiest man by accident

Shane *having no filter*: why do you bother with it if it doesn't work?

ai is everywhere anyway, from search engines to grammar checkers. like other writing tools, it's just a tool after all? it helps with the little stuff so the bigger vision, which took a lot of effort to come up with. fanfic writers usually don't have a big team to proofread or edit, so it's only natural they use whatever tools are available to them. why should a beautifully written fic that used little ai be seen as inferior to one that had multiple betas and too many people brainstorming? the fic made with ai like claude often comes from a single mind, which i think actually makes it more special in its own way.

ai is only going to get more and more advanced, so i don't really understand these morally superior opinions among f1 writers here, lestappen ones especially. ao3 allows ai fics. nowhere does it say they must be tagged. also why a fic that used little ai must be tagged as ai-generated? which is false. this selective outrage just feels targeted, because some writers couldn't come up with those fic ideas themselves and are jealous of the success of the ones they look down on.

and aren't the readers the real court of public opinion? if they're okay with reading ai fics, why are other writers so bothered? also no one is stopping others from using ai for fics. lot of big writers are open to ai now, so i think you must update yourself.

giving ideas to ai to help write is still different from generating the whole fic with ai.

oh boy. anon I feel like you started this ask with good intentions, however it very quickly devolved into passive aggression and so I will matching that energy tenfold. based on what you've said, I don't think what I'm about to say will change your mind, but that's fine. maybe it will help someone else.

so, firstly, I want to establish a couple things.

there is a difference between AI and generative AI. I understand that there are other forms of AI that can be very useful and have far less environmental impact. I want to be clear that what I'M talking about is gen AI.

you claim later on that there is "selective outrage" because writers are "jealous" so before you can claim the same for me, let me state some facts. across my 24 works in f1 rpf, I have more than 70,000 kudos, close to 30,000 bookmarks, and more than 6,000 comments. there are more than 2000 accounts subscribed to ME as an author, 7000 additional subscriptions spread across my 24 stories. my fic, Where You Go, I Go, is the fourth most kudosed in the ENTIRE f1 rpf tag. it's beaten by three fics that were ALSO not written with AI. I have a server dedicated to wygig with more than 400 people in it. I have more than 2000 followers here on Tumblr, for a blog that is basically just entirely me answering questions about my lestappen fics. no, I am not "jealous". there is nothing for me to be jealous OF.

I also want to be clear that there are multiples reasons why I hate AI: It's plagiarised to create it's database; data centres have a massive carbon footprint, and have HUGE water consumption and are literally diverting potable water that you and I need to LIVE just to cool down their servers; data centres also directly impact the communities around which they're built, making YOUR electrical bills more expensive, creating noise pollution that's near unliveable, and, as mentioned earlier, diverting water from DROUGHT STRICKEN AREAS ALREADY ON WATER RESTRCITIONS. in fact, this study says that a massive 17% of all AI prompts are to generate fan fiction. there is not one single argument anyone can make to me that justifies why you get to accelerate the climate crisis because you want to read another version of your faves kiss. oh but hey!! guess what!! at least your AI usage is making you dumber :)

now, to address what you've said.

"what if the author's first language isn't english? it feels like a privileged take that native speakers often don't consider."

your argument presupposes that a writer is entitled to people reading what they publish, which they aren't. not even I'm entitled to that, with the many kind subscriptions I have, and I would never be egotistical enough to say so.

a writer does not have to publish in English, and the reason they do is because they want a wider audience. fine, whatever. what the fuck do you think people have been doing for DECADES before now? if they wanted to publish in English, they learnt English. maybe they used google translate. maybe they were lucky enough to have someone translate it for them! maybe they just wrote it with their bad English because they felt passionate enough about it to just write something.

maybe they just published in their own language, on websites catered to that language with many readers who read that language! I know for a fact there are Chinese-specific platforms, and Russian specific platforms. I have to assume that there are others for other languages. sometimes English-readers miss out on a fic that's beautiful, and you know what? that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

in fact, I remember being 13 and painstakingly copying and pasting each paragraph of Spanish fics into google translate so I could read them. readers and writers have always found a way, and being lazy hasn't been one of them.

like other writing tools, it's just a tool after all?

no, it's not. not just because of the huge environmental cost that I outlined above, but also because it was trained on OTHER people's hard work. comparing someone either AI generating or assisting their fic with someone who uses spellcheck or grammarly (pre-integration of gen ai) or a writing specific platform that lets someone organise their ideas is just an argument made in bad faith.

and at what point does the AI user even LEARN? if I use spell check to help me figure out where to put my comma, at least I learnt something in the process. someone who has a response spit out from AI didn't learn - they will still just use AI next time to do the exact same thing.

it helps with the little stuff so the bigger vision, which took a lot of effort to come up with.

the idea is not the story. the WRITING is the story. as my original screenshot said, anyone in the entire world can come up with an idea or even plot one out!! only a WRITER can write it. that's a skill, and one you have to learn and develop.

fanfic writers usually don't have a big team to proofread or edit, so it's only natural they use whatever tools are available to them. why should a beautifully written fic that used little ai be seen as inferior to one that had multiple betas and too many people brainstorming? the fic made with ai like claude often comes from a single mind, which i think actually makes it more special in its own way.

which is it anon?? do fanfic writers have a big team helping them or not??

I do not know a single person who is writing fic that has more than two betas at MOST. even IF they do have multiple people, it's still coming straight from heart and soul. AND, published books always have HUGE teams to help smooth them out. are you really going to stand on all ten toes and tell me that some slop (AI assisted OR generated) is worth more than Pride and Prejudice or The Lord of the Rings or the Great Gatsby or literally any other book that's ever been published, just because they had other people help? if you are, then you're unreasonable.

you say that a fic made with AI comes from a single mind, but it doesn't. it fucking doesn't. it came from the 20 million fanfics it scraped that were written by a person, it came from the billions of books written before it. the only reason AI can even get remotely close to writing something is because it stole the work that other people put effort into.

so, yeah. I do think someone who used AI is inferior. I think anyone who says "I'm totally fine with consuming up to five gallons of water so that ChatGPT can tell me if my comma is in the right place, instead of going to 5 minutes of effort to google something" is inferior. In fact I think they're morally reprehensible.

ao3 allows ai fics. nowhere does it say they must be tagged.

for now, sure. maybe it always will allow it. again, if someone decides that they're totally fine with the water consumption that comes with that, I can't stop them. I can be damn sure I'm not going to fucking read it, though.

also why a fic that used little ai must be tagged as ai-generated?

it should be tagged as AI assisted.

and aren't the readers the real court of public opinion? if they're okay with reading ai fics, why are other writers so bothered?

I'm a reader. I'm not okay with it. I don't want to read that shit, I don't want to be tricked into reading it, I don't want someone who decided it was okay to do all of the above to get any level of feeling accomplishment for doing fuck all.

AND. you say you don't think AI fics should be tagged, and that's because you know that if they were, a lot of people wouldn't read them. they'll probably also be called out for it. that's because readers DON'T want to read it.

but if readers are so happy to read AI fics, like you claim, then if its tagged I'm sure people can seek it out. just like there are tags for things being betaed or unbetaed, including kinks and tropes or what not. you tag it so people can decide.

lot of big writers are open to ai now, so i think you must update yourself.

no.

and guess what??? I do in fact think that I'm superior in every way to someone who used AI. you think I sometimes don't know what I'm doing? you think I don't spend hours researching details so I get them right? you think I don't use spellcheck, or search up correct grammar? I do. I put the time and effort in to better myself and my writing, and that only makes me better at my craft.

giving ideas to ai to help write is still different from generating the whole fic with ai.

I don't even know what you think the difference is here. in the second instance, you think that the person is also getting concept from the AI? not really sure how that person is anything but a copy and paster lol.

ai is everywhere anyway, from search engines to grammar checkers. like other writing tools, it's just a tool after all? it helps with the little stuff so the bigger vision, which took a lot of effort to come up with. fanfic writers usually don't have a big team to proofread or edit, so it's only natural they use whatever tools are available to them. why should a beautifully written fic that used little ai be seen as inferior to one that had multiple betas and too many people brainstorming? the fic made with ai like claude often comes from a single mind, which i think actually makes it more special in its own way.

ai is only going to get more and more advanced, so i don't really understand these morally superior opinions among f1 writers here, lestappen ones especially. ao3 allows ai fics. nowhere does it say they must be tagged. also why a fic that used little ai must be tagged as ai-generated? which is false. this selective outrage just feels targeted, because some writers couldn't come up with those fic ideas themselves and are jealous of the success of the ones they look down on.

and aren't the readers the real court of public opinion? if they're okay with reading ai fics, why are other writers so bothered? also no one is stopping others from using ai for fics. lot of big writers are open to ai now, so i think you must update yourself.

giving ideas to ai to help write is still different from generating the whole fic with ai.

oh boy. anon I feel like you started this ask with good intentions, however it very quickly devolved into passive aggression and so I will matching that energy tenfold. based on what you've said, I don't think what I'm about to say will change your mind, but that's fine. maybe it will help someone else.

so, firstly, I want to establish a couple things.

there is a difference between AI and generative AI. I understand that there are other forms of AI that can be very useful and have far less environmental impact. I want to be clear that what I'M talking about is gen AI.

you claim later on that there is "selective outrage" because writers are "jealous" so before you can claim the same for me, let me state some facts. across my 24 works in f1 rpf, I have more than 70,000 kudos, close to 30,000 bookmarks, and more than 6,000 comments. there are more than 2000 accounts subscribed to ME as an author, 7000 additional subscriptions spread across my 24 stories. my fic, Where You Go, I Go, is the fourth most kudosed in the ENTIRE f1 rpf tag. it's beaten by three fics that were ALSO not written with AI. I have a server dedicated to wygig with more than 400 people in it. I have more than 2000 followers here on Tumblr, for a blog that is basically just entirely me answering questions about my lestappen fics. no, I am not "jealous". there is nothing for me to be jealous OF.

I also want to be clear that there are multiples reasons why I hate AI: It's plagiarised to create it's database; data centres have a massive carbon footprint, and have HUGE water consumption and are literally diverting potable water that you and I need to LIVE just to cool down their servers; data centres also directly impact the communities around which they're built, making YOUR electrical bills more expensive, creating noise pollution that's near unliveable, and, as mentioned earlier, diverting water from DROUGHT STRICKEN AREAS ALREADY ON WATER RESTRCITIONS. in fact, this study says that a massive 17% of all AI prompts are to generate fan fiction. there is not one single argument anyone can make to me that justifies why you get to accelerate the climate crisis because you want to read another version of your faves kiss. oh but hey!! guess what!! at least your AI usage is making you dumber :)

now, to address what you've said.

"what if the author's first language isn't english? it feels like a privileged take that native speakers often don't consider."

your argument presupposes that a writer is entitled to people reading what they publish, which they aren't. not even I'm entitled to that, with the many kind subscriptions I have, and I would never be egotistical enough to say so.

a writer does not have to publish in English, and the reason they do is because they want a wider audience. fine, whatever. what the fuck do you think people have been doing for DECADES before now? if they wanted to publish in English, they learnt English. maybe they used google translate. maybe they were lucky enough to have someone translate it for them! maybe they just wrote it with their bad English because they felt passionate enough about it to just write something.

maybe they just published in their own language, on websites catered to that language with many readers who read that language! I know for a fact there are Chinese-specific platforms, and Russian specific platforms. I have to assume that there are others for other languages. sometimes English-readers miss out on a fic that's beautiful, and you know what? that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

in fact, I remember being 13 and painstakingly copying and pasting each paragraph of Spanish fics into google translate so I could read them. readers and writers have always found a way, and being lazy hasn't been one of them.

like other writing tools, it's just a tool after all?

no, it's not. not just because of the huge environmental cost that I outlined above, but also because it was trained on OTHER people's hard work. comparing someone either AI generating or assisting their fic with someone who uses spellcheck or grammarly (pre-integration of gen ai) or a writing specific platform that lets someone organise their ideas is just an argument made in bad faith.

and at what point does the AI user even LEARN? if I use spell check to help me figure out where to put my comma, at least I learnt something in the process. someone who has a response spit out from AI didn't learn - they will still just use AI next time to do the exact same thing.

it helps with the little stuff so the bigger vision, which took a lot of effort to come up with.

the idea is not the story. the WRITING is the story. as my original screenshot said, anyone in the entire world can come up with an idea or even plot one out!! only a WRITER can write it. that's a skill, and one you have to learn and develop.

fanfic writers usually don't have a big team to proofread or edit, so it's only natural they use whatever tools are available to them. why should a beautifully written fic that used little ai be seen as inferior to one that had multiple betas and too many people brainstorming? the fic made with ai like claude often comes from a single mind, which i think actually makes it more special in its own way.

which is it anon?? do fanfic writers have a big team helping them or not??

I do not know a single person who is writing fic that has more than two betas at MOST. even IF they do have multiple people, it's still coming straight from heart and soul. AND, published books always have HUGE teams to help smooth them out. are you really going to stand on all ten toes and tell me that some slop (AI assisted OR generated) is worth more than Pride and Prejudice or The Lord of the Rings or the Great Gatsby or literally any other book that's ever been published, just because they had other people help? if you are, then you're unreasonable.

you say that a fic made with AI comes from a single mind, but it doesn't. it fucking doesn't. it came from the 20 million fanfics it scrapped that were written by a person, it came from the billions of books written before it. the only reason AI can even get remotely close to writing something is because it stole the work that other people put effort into.

so, yeah. I do think someone who used AI is inferior. I think anyone who says "I'm totally fine with consuming up to five gallons of water so that ChatGPT can tell me if my comma is in the right place, instead of going to 5 minutes of effort to google something" is inferior. In fact I think they're morally reprehensible.

ao3 allows ai fics. nowhere does it say they must be tagged.

for now, sure. maybe it always will allow it. again, if someone decides that they're totally fine with the water consumption that comes with that, I can't stop them. I can be damn sure I'm not going to fucking read it, though.

also why a fic that used little ai must be tagged as ai-generated?

it should be tagged as AI assisted.

and aren't the readers the real court of public opinion? if they're okay with reading ai fics, why are other writers so bothered?

I'm a reader. I'm not okay with it. I don't want to read that shit, I don't want to be tricked into reading it, I don't want someone who decided it was okay to do all of the above to get any level of feeling accomplishment for doing fuck all.

AND. you say you don't think AI fics should be tagged, and that's because you know that if they were, a lot of people wouldn't read them. they'll probably also be called out for it. that's because readers DON'T want to read it.

but if readers are so happy to read AI fics, like you claim, then if its tagged I'm sure people can seek it out. just like there are tags for things being betaed or unbetaed, including kinks and tropes or what not. you tag it so people can decide.

lot of big writers are open to ai now, so i think you must update yourself.

no.

and guess what??? I do in fact think that I'm superior in every way to someone who used AI. you think I sometimes don't know what I'm doing? you think I don't spend hours researching details so I get them right? you think I don't use spellcheck, or search up correct grammar? I do. I put the time and effort in to better myself and my writing, and that only makes me better at my craft.

giving ideas to ai to help write is still different from generating the whole fic with ai.

I don't even know what you think the difference is here. in the second instance, you think that the person is also getting concept from the AI? not really sure how that person is anything but a copy and paster lol.

people don't trust new authors anymore. they get scared that anyone who is new to lestappen must be using AI. you know how many new authors and stories I see posted in the tag who are writing it themselves and only get a couple hundred views or kudos?