Lily

The problem for Deltarune is that it can't just rehash those genre conventions raw to evoke the nostalgia it wants, because its presumptive (and actual!) audience consists overwhelmingly of a) people who have bought into Toby Fox's (unearned, imo) reputation as "Tricky Tony" who fucks with your head for no reason, and who are therefore on the lookout for metanarrative and DDLC-style haunted video games, and b) people whose nostalgic JRPG is Undertale, a fact that makes me feel so, so old.

This is why it puts in so much effort to first evoke, and then trouble, the familiarity of Undertale in Chapter 1 – reminding us of familiar characters, then running us through Card Kingdom as a sort of conscious pastiche of the Underground that deliberately doesn't give itself the time or effort to establish its emotional stakes (Ralsei pushing pacifism and the threat of a bad outcome if we neglect it, only to find that being violent doesn't really change anything; King as an image of Asgore with near-zero complexity; the utterly unearned Sentimental Victory Lap sequence at the end where we talk to all the Darkners). It's all almost cozy. It puts us in our comfort zone. Choose dialogue options; win through MERCY; do everything right and guarantee your happy ending.

Then the Light World walkaround sequence is what pushes you out of that established comfort zone: it's comforting and homey and peaceful, but none of these people are the same as they were. Stripped of their higher, dramatic circumstances, these adults are kind of... ordinary and unhelpful, teachers and cops who don't do anything for you and parents who don't really understand you, and the touchstones that reflected their efforts to be better than their worst selves (cf Alphyne, Mettaton, Asgore's acceptance of grief and culpability, etc.) are undone.

Many people, myself included, has thought that this person on the phone with Kris is Carol Holiday.

However, I no longer believe so.

Let's break down the reasons, one by one.

"But, she was home early! After Kris called about Susie getting the guitar!"

This is one of the most common arguments for Carol Caller. Indeed, it all seems to line up: Carol wasn't going to be home for hours, until the call from Kris sent her rushing back. And her first priority upon entering was to take the guitar away from Susie.

But, is it really that simple?

What if Carol came back for something else entirely, and it had nothing to do with Kris?

Exhibit A: the same segment in Weird Route

On Weird Route, Kris never made the call. And yet, Carol still came home early, asking everyone to leave. Why would she had come if Kris didn't call her?

"How do we know if Kris didn't call offscreen?"

Because on Weird Route, Kris didn't know Susie got to the guitar until later, when they were both outside.

And from Susie's account, we can gleam that Susie went from Dess' room—found guitar—went to living room with guitar, and was held up by Asgore until Carol's arrival.

Meanwhile, we see Kris went from Noelle's room—bathroom, and had a massive crashout upon entering. Said crashout was also interrupted soon after by the news that Carol came home.

If the call did somehow happen, it would leave an extremely small window of time for Carol to come home. She would probably need literal wings for that.

And that's without considering how dissonant and improbable it would be for Kris to notice Susie with the guitar and make a call for it in enormous emotional anguish and rage.

Therefore, I think it's unreasonable to assume that Kris still made the call on Weird Route.

"What if Carol was summoned by Kris on Normal Route, but by someone else on Weird Route?"

That's essentially acknowledging that someone else could have called Carol home. What stops them from also doing so on Normal Route?

So if Kris didn't call Carol home, who did?

Asgore did.

He was, after all, the one who revealed that Carol was coming home early.

We also know that he'd been working with Carol to find out what happened to Dess.

And, on that day, he also happened to have an reason to call Carol.

To show her his latest discovery. A black shard.

Exhibit B: the call from actual Carol at the end of Weird Route Ch.4

And as you can see, her speech was completely normal. Not like the Mysterious Caller's voice at all.

These calls happened at around the same hour in late night. Carol would be in the same place, calling with the same device. If the Caller were Carol, it makes no sense for her voice to be different.

"What if she changed her voice to sound dark and ominous?"

Okay, but why would Carol need to do that? Kris had her contact. They knew who she was either way.

"To obscure her identity from the SOUL? The Caller even knows about Kris' SOUL situation!"

The Caller never framed the SOUL as a threat, though. They even said that Kris cannot enter the dark world without it. And truthfully, the SOUL does not have the sentience to be dangerous on its own; the Player does. And nothing suggests that the Caller knows about the Player.

And, while we're on the topic...

The Caller knew about dark fountains and dark worlds. I highly doubt that Carol knew those things, because if she did, then she was already extremely close to finding her daughter (on the premise that Dess is the Knight). Asgore and her wouldn't need evidence boards like they were still crafting theories, they could just make their own fountains.

So no, I don't think Carol could be the Caller. Which, would also mean that she hadn't been manipulating Kris and holding them to a promise.

"Then, what's with her 'you are always welcome here' to Kris? Kris was even uncomfortable, too!"

I have speculated that Kris saw Dess last.

To Carol, this meant that Kris Dreemurr remained the only person who could provide reliable clues to finding Dess. She was hoping Kris would one day open up, and being nice to them means it'd be more likely to happen.

Kris wasn't comfortable, of course, because the Dessappearance was a deeply traumatizing event that they still feel guilty for. They weren't ready to disclose anything yet.

Kris.. don't forget... you promised..

Which sounds very similar to:

When the light is running low and the shadows start to grow

And the places that you know seem like fantasy

There's a light inside your soul

That's still shining in the cold with the truth

*The promise in our Hearts*

*don't forget, I'm with you in the dark*

We don't know who sung dont forget but the lyrics are very similar to a certain section in raise up your bat a song that was written by dess(Noelle even put it in her bog!)

COME FOLLOW ME INTO THE DARK (COME FOLLOW ME INTO THE DARK)

WITH YOUR HEART AS THE ARK (WITH YOUR HEART AS THE ARK)

WHICH SHALL SHINE YOU THE WAY (WHICH SHALL SHINE YOU THE WAY)

BECAUSE I'M WITH YOU IN THE DARK (BECAUSE I'M WITH YOU IN THE DARK)

WITH YOUR HEART AS MY MARK (WITH YOUR HEART AS MY MARK)

WHICH SHALL GUIDE YOU THE WAY, (WHICH SHALL GUIDE YOU THE WAY,)

THROUGH THE WAVES (THROUGH THE WAVES)

Many people, myself included, has thought that this person on the phone with Kris is Carol Holiday.

However, I no longer believe so.

Let's break down the reasons, one by one.

"But, she was home early! After Kris called about Susie getting the guitar!"

This is one of the most common arguments for Carol Caller. Indeed, it all seems to line up: Carol wasn't going to be home for hours, until the call from Kris sent her rushing back. And her first priority upon entering was to take the guitar away from Susie.

But, is it really that simple?

What if Carol came back for something else entirely, and it had nothing to do with Kris?

Exhibit A: the same segment in Weird Route

On Weird Route, Kris never made the call. And yet, Carol still came home early, asking everyone to leave. Why would she had come if Kris didn't call her?

"How do we know if Kris didn't call offscreen?"

Because on Weird Route, Kris didn't know Susie got to the guitar until later, when they were both outside.

And from Susie's account, we can gleam that Susie went from Dess' room—found guitar—went to living room with guitar, and was held up by Asgore until Carol's arrival.

Meanwhile, we see Kris went from Noelle's room—bathroom, and had a massive crashout upon entering. Said crashout was also interrupted soon after by the news that Carol came home.

If the call did somehow happen, it would leave an extremely small window of time for Carol to come home. She would probably need literal wings for that.

And that's without considering how dissonant and improbable it would be for Kris to notice Susie with the guitar and make a call for it in enormous emotional anguish and rage.

Therefore, I think it's unreasonable to assume that Kris still made the call on Weird Route.

"What if Carol was summoned by Kris on Normal Route, but by someone else on Weird Route?"

That's essentially acknowledging that someone else could have called Carol home. What stops them from also doing so on Normal Route?

So if Kris didn't call Carol home, who did?

Asgore did.

He was, after all, the one who revealed that Carol was coming home early.

We also know that he'd been working with Carol to find out what happened to Dess.

And, on that day, he also happened to have an reason to call Carol.

To show her his latest discovery. A black shard.

Exhibit B: the call from actual Carol at the end of Weird Route Ch.4

And as you can see, her speech was completely normal. Not like the Mysterious Caller's voice at all.

These calls happened at around the same hour in late night. Carol would be in the same place, calling with the same device. If the Caller were Carol, it makes no sense for her voice to be different.

"What if she changed her voice to sound dark and ominous?"

Okay, but why would Carol need to do that? Kris had her contact. They knew who she was either way.

"To obscure her identity from the SOUL? The Caller even knows about Kris' SOUL situation!"

The Caller never framed the SOUL as a threat, though. They even said that Kris cannot enter the dark world without it. And truthfully, the SOUL does not have the sentience to be dangerous on its own; the Player does. And nothing suggests that the Caller knows about the Player.

And, while we're on the topic...

The Caller knew about dark fountains and dark worlds. I highly doubt that Carol knew those things, because if she did, then she was already extremely close to finding her daughter (on the premise that Dess is the Knight). Asgore and her wouldn't need evidence boards like they were still crafting theories, they could just make their own fountains.

So no, I don't think Carol could be the Caller. Which, would also mean that she hadn't been manipulating Kris and holding them to a promise.

"Then, what's with her 'you are always welcome here' to Kris? Kris was even uncomfortable, too!"

I have speculated that Kris saw Dess last.

To Carol, this meant that Kris Dreemurr remained the only person who could provide reliable clues to finding Dess. She was hoping Kris would one day open up, and being nice to them means it'd be more likely to happen.

Kris wasn't comfortable, of course, because the Dessappearance was a deeply traumatizing event that they still feel guilty for. They weren't ready to disclose anything yet.

I do wonder what are your thoughts about the whole black dreemur like in the board game which Kris later attacks which at surface level doesn't have anything to do with dess but the interesting thing is that this sprite replaces the sprite of a black deer (which is fully functional)

Apparently in the code there is a variable called "Toriel" which its default value is true and disabling it allows you to see the deer

Also the ice mage thing in the board game its placeholder is a brown deer

Thank you :D

The creature that mirrors Kris' movements in sword route reminds me of a monster type from the Binding of Isaac called a Dople. It's basically a doppelganger of the player character that mimics your movement and fires bullets as you do, and certain rooms are designed so that you're meant to kill a Dople by steering it into a trap in the room. The segment in sword route is a lot like that. I'm not sure if it was directly inspired by Doples, but it's quite interesting to consider.

Also, the creature in sword route shows up as a black/gray goat monster by default. Y'know, the type of monsters the Dreemurrs are. Considering how Kris used to think they would grow horns just like one and fit in with the rest of their family, maybe you could interpret the goat creature as a dark twin of sorts? Which I think is a neat name. Dark Twin. Going with it now.

And then, you disable the default Toriel variable and the creature reveals itself to be a black deer. Since the White Cloak ice mage's placeholder is a brown deer and her reference to Noelle is indisputable, Dark Twin appears to be making a reference to Dess. And certainly we already see Kris mirroring DessKnight's poses in several places. Pointing forward when they act, crossing their arms and turning away to look cool...

So, my very unpolished theory is that Dark Twin might be what Kris aspired to be, and that image is heavily based off Dess. Alternatively Dark Twin is just Dess XD idk. feels like it's fair to call either without further knowledge of anything. the fact there's an unbridgeable gap between Kris and Dark Twin, and they could only wait until Dark Twin comes over to them to kill it and progress, is really cryptic. idk what to make of any of those yet.

After all, Kris has taken steps to obscure themself from our perspective. The objects that go into making a Dark World reveal the character of those they interact with; Kris cleared out their room prior to canon and so Ralsei’s ideal room for them is mostly half-baked guesses and imitations of Asriel, with a few personal touches like the moss and manual trash can. No scary pranks; no occultism. They’ve got a cage for us, too, and Ch. 2 closes with a premeditated plan for another Dark World — yet they never tell anyone we’re here!

At the risk of wild, unfounded speculation — I think the Dark Worlds are a kind of bait. Someone (sometimes Kris) opens them; lured by the prospect of adventure and valuable moral lessons, we venture in and close them. Notably, we appear to absorb or enter each Fountain to seal it, and the party levels after each one. If you’re like me, Kris’s deliberately-obscured nature and motives are a prime motivator here, too, and they certainly do their best to drip-feed that out. And, well, they do put us back after extracting us.

At first many thought that toriel isn't interested in Kris as much as asriel but Toby said on the stream that in this game your family loves you so it can't be that and besides it is ooc of toriel to not care about one of her children ( I swear it is real I just for some reason can't find it right now)

Another possibility is that they are depressed or unmotivated but that doesn't explain why their side of the room is empty since we know they have lots of interests (occult,gaming and knifes)So them removing everything from their room so they can obscure themselves is very refreshing view at it

Which reminds me about the weird mystery around kris's knife

The knife is not present in the inventory nor in the weapon but yet Kris somehow pulls the knife out of nowhere in both ch1&ch2

But if they are always carrying the knife wouldn't the knife have turned into a Darkener?But things like Noelle's watch didn't become a Darkener which make me wonder when an object becomes a sentinet Darkener

So the must plausible scenario(so far) is that they have hidden it in the bed somehow and used it at the end of chapter 1

But in ch2

We now know from toriel that Kris has a personal knife and they left it in the tin but despite us following Kris all the time they rip our soul and use their knife to cut toriel's tires AND create a fountain

My best guess is that they somehow picked up the knife after ripping their soul in the bathroom

But with all of those observations the more I think about it the more it seems that Kris is preventing us from using their knife Also about Kris may need us for sealing the fountain it reminds me of a segment from the oblivion theory (link:https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1_yogsDNce60OC8gyfSF8KHCy9bD6atWoXvXi_OgztxY/mobilebasic)

After all, Kris has taken steps to obscure themself from our perspective. The objects that go into making a Dark World reveal the character of those they interact with; Kris cleared out their room prior to canon and so Ralsei’s ideal room for them is mostly half-baked guesses and imitations of Asriel, with a few personal touches like the moss and manual trash can. No scary pranks; no occultism. They’ve got a cage for us, too, and Ch. 2 closes with a premeditated plan for another Dark World — yet they never tell anyone we’re here!

At the risk of wild, unfounded speculation — I think the Dark Worlds are a kind of bait. Someone (sometimes Kris) opens them; lured by the prospect of adventure and valuable moral lessons, we venture in and close them. Notably, we appear to absorb or enter each Fountain to seal it, and the party levels after each one. If you’re like me, Kris’s deliberately-obscured nature and motives are a prime motivator here, too, and they certainly do their best to drip-feed that out. And, well, they do put us back after extracting us.

it's not really you

Lolita isn’t the only novel written by Nabokov whose presence I can feel in Monster. Recently, I reread The Real Life of Sebastian Knight, Nabokov’s first novel written in English, and discovered that it’s a big playground of connections.

Sebastian Knight is a famous fictional writer who died, aged 36, of a fictional heart disease called Lehmann’s disease. V., his younger half-brother, attempts to understand all the nuances of his enigmatic life and write his biography.

Sebastian is depicted through fragmented memories, a narrative technique that finds its echo in Monster. In this note, I want to focus on Johan Liebert, whose image is also shaped by other’s recollections.