@bitchylobster​ 

No one said it was ugly, just commented on the fact that the French *unapologetically* colonized half of Africa, sapped it of it’s resources (human and natural), and to this day claim you “made it better” (because of course everything they touch turns to gold, I mean France is basically the cradle of civilization right?)

And the fact that all you had to comment is “bUt ToUristS?? we make CHEESE and cRoissanTS??” only confirms everything the original post implies. 

the venus symbol on the left only intersects with the other venus symbol (= lesbians); the venus symbol in the middle intersects with the other venus symbol and the mars symbol (= bisexual women); the mars symbol in the middle intersects with the other mars symbol and the venus symbol (= bisexual men); the mars symbol on the right only intersects with the other mars symbol (= gay men).

i want to see this logo more often to represent lgb solidarity!!

First, let’s evaluate how attraction works. People are not attracted to gender. If someone I perceive as male asks me out, I will say no. If they say they identify as a woman, I will still say no. Identity has no bearing on sexuality whatsoever.

HOWEVER.

Nobody is attracted to just genitals either. Lesbians don’t date trans men, and if someone I was dating came out to me as a trans man, I would quickly but politely break up with them. So if it isn’t identity and it isn’t sex, then what determines physical attraction?

Secondary sex characteristics. Things like fat distribution, breasts or lack thereof, Adam’s apple or lack thereof. Pretty much things that aren’t inherently sexual but still let our brain know “this is a man/this is a woman.”

So, knowing this, is it possible for a lesbian to be attracted to/date a trans woman? Absolutely.

Trans women are women and can be lesbians. There, thays my opinion.

However, knowing the genital preference debate, there’s a lot more nuance to be had. While trans women are women, their experiences and medical needs will be greatly different from “biological” women. In a census, wouldn’t it be much more concise to make the distinction? (Ex. trans women are at risk for ____ makes a lot more sense than “women are at risk for____”)

Also, lesbians inherently do not like dick, as it is a male sex organ. Is it possible for a lesbian to be in a sexual relationship with a trans women despite the penis? Yeah, of course. But is a penis something lesbians will inherently desire and should accept? No.

Ma’am are you trying to tell me that when you look at someone you see their chromosomes?

how are y’all literally misinterpreting everything I’m saying. your brain reads someone as male or female not based on their genitals or how fem/masc they look but based on things you can see. believe it or not, you can’t always tell someone is trans.

Therefore being attracted to someone like an intersex woman who has certain male sex characteristics (like a beard, flat chest, etc.) would be “less gay”, or straight entirely since some can pass as male. Or does that only work with transmen? You’re the one claiming it’s based on what you see, not me. 

Lmao you can’t see chromosomes but you can certainly see a dick. If I go on a date with a “woman” and find out he’s a man then I’m going to immediately drop him because I’m a lesbian and not attracted to men and dick. Thats how sexuality works, you’re never going to pretend away that genitals are a fundamental part of sexuality. No lesbians are attracted to or “neutral” about dick, that’s called a bisexual.

I mean..we do kind of agree. If I go on a date with a trans woman and find out she’s trans, that relationship definitely isn’t going to continue. I also agree with you when you say that no lesbian is attracted to dick.

if I look at someone with a beard I’m probably going to register them as male. It’s the way my brain is wired to perceive gender. Flat chests add more nuanced, because they’re not an inherently fem or masc characteristic. A woman with a flat chest still looks like a woman. and since you brought up intersex people, what about the few whose genitalia isn’t strictly male or female? Chromosomally, they’d be of the male sex no matter what due to the Y chromosome being present, so would that make all intersex people male by your definition?

Breasts are a secondary sex characteristic, like facial hair, hips, Adam’s apples, voices, etc. so yes a flat chest would be a male characteristic. The whole point was to illustrate that many (or even most) people don’t cover all of those, and some are more obvious or pronounced than others. Which is why secondary sex characteristics are a useless definition of sexuality unless you’re claiming that everyone is bi to some degree, since they can be attracted to many of those characteristics. An according to that definition, dating a woman with ambiguous secondary sex characteristics would be “less gay”. An on that topic, changes in reproductive system/genitalia is also part of the secondary sex characteristics so….

Intersex people are still either male or female, and either way that’s .018% of the human population that non-disordered TIMs/TIFs have nothing to do with.

It doesn’t matter what lengths a woman goes to to imitate a man, she’s female and therefore at least some lesbian women will be attracted to her. Hairy women are still female, women who had mastectomies/flat chests are still female, women with deep voices are female, women with high testosterone are female, etc. and lesbians still have the capability to be sexually attracted to them. Straight women don’t. Trans men have historically been a part of the lesbian community and some still call themselves lesbians (because they’re female and attracted to females, so, you know, lesbians), I don’t know where the denial is coming from.

I really wouldn’t bring up TIFs’ bottom surgery in your case because almost nobody is attracted to that straight or gay lmao. It’s an extreme body modification (mutilation you could say), not functional genitalia. You’d be hard pressed to find women of any orientation that see a picture of those surgeries and go “yeah that’s hot”.

Trans people are in relationships though? Like obviously people are attracted to them. And lesbians have been in relationships with trans women? I don’t want to be the person that cites stone butch blues but I am. Lesbians have different experiences and it’s not fair to disqualify some.

And you were the one who brought up intersex people. My point was that, on a base level, not factoring in genitalia, personality, life, or anything that could be a dealbreaker, it is possible to pass a trans woman on the street and find her attractive. Because your brain would perceive her as female. You can’t whip out a textbook and measure the length of her scapula or clavicle, you can’t x-ray into her pants or get a karyotype of her chromosomes.

I’m not 100% sure on the argument you’re making about “if everyone was attracted to various secondary sex characteristics then we would all be bi”?

Trans people are in relationships with people that are actually attracted to them. Lesbians don’t date males, every “lesbian” that's been in a happy relationship with a male is bi. Lesbians have different experiences, and none of those include being attracted to men (which TIMs are).

yes, If I see something that looks female and vaguely attractive across a bar while I’m drunk then I might say “that girl is hot”. And that's where it ends, because the second I find out he’s not a woman all of my attraction will be gone. Because I’m a lesbian and lesbians aren’t sexually/romantically attracted to men. I went over this 20 paragraphs back. I’m not going to eat chicken because it’s shaped like a block of tofu and dyed white, it’s still fucking meat. 

Sex is black and white (99.99% of the time). Same with sexuality, you like one or the other or both (and that is how sexuality works whether you redefine it or not, females attracted to only females will still exist). Trying to define sexuality with secondary sex characteristics is a failure because there are dozens of them, many people probably don’t fit into all in their respective sex. “idk whatever sex you interpret them as” isn’t a definition.

You’re vastly overstating trans peoples ability to pass lmao. Kalvin Garrah doesn’t look much different from any butch lesbian, and she’s shorter than me ffs. I do think it’s much easier for TIFs like Buck to pass though, even if you’re 5′5″ and have a feminine face as long as you have a beard most people will instinctually refer to you as male. TIMs are a different story though, I think the only two TIMs I’ve seen that genuinely pass are Kim Petras and Nikkietutorials (because they were transed as young boys before puberty.) The successful and famous ones end up looking like a surgical attempt at a Bratz Doll (like Gigi Gorgeous), and the ones that can’t afford things like FFS generally just... don’t pass. Hiding male characteristics is harder than hiding female ones. Any trip to r/transpassing or really any trans tag will tell you the same (and those are their best pictures with the best angles lmao).

A 5’0 woman will require vastly fewer calories than a 6’0 man.

It doesn’t even approach 2400 calories, and the only time you see 2000 appear is in the 19-25 range, when young women finish their physical and brain development, and become physically active as a result of environmental factors (college/first job).