Hello

OK SO I HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS

I actually had the notion a while back that it would be interesting if cold constructed bots were to feel some sort of dysphoria due to a disconnect between their given frames and the frames they were naturally inclined to develop. The fact that a cold constructed bot like Starscream changes frames so often could be interpreted as an expression of that discomfort. However I ultimately didn’t think that would work because we’ve seen forged bots change frames/alt-modes without expressing any resulting disconnect (I think we’ve seen that anyway), which wouldn’t make sense if a bot needed their forged frame in order to be comfortable. That being said, it could be that sparks have coding that urges them to mould a frame, but nothing that tells them they need to be attached to the frame they moulded. So forged bots satisfied this coding when they were first forged, which then allowed them to be comfortable in other frames, whereas the sparks of cold constructed bots never got to satisfy this coding so it continues to gnaw away at them with the feeling they have a natural form that needs to be realised. 

Alternatively, or additionally, it may very well be that some sort of physical discomfort results from psychological hang-ups that come from being a cold constructed bot in a society that labels them as knocks-offs/imitations/etc. To a cold constructed bot the idea of their “natural” frame may represent the idea of a life where they’re regarded as “genuine” as opposed to imitations. By contrast the frames they’re originally built with were given to them by people who commissioned their creation for the sake of serving some instrumental purpose, so possibly serve as a reminder that they were brought into existence to be tools rather than people. I could thus imagine a cold constructed bot developing a neurosis around their frame over the idea that they will never know their “genuine self”.

While I think that it would make a lot of sense for some cold constructed bots to think that way, I hope that we as readers aren’t meant to agree that a bot’s originally forged frame is their “true”, “good” self, since that’s ultimately what functionalism was all about. Thus while I do find the idea that Starscream has psychological and/or physiological body issues intriguing, this whole plot line sits WAY better with me if we’re also meant to interpret it in part as a metaphor for how Starscream’s overall identity/personality was to an extent “formed to the specifications of another’s greed”. After all, the people who commissioned his creation probably would have tried to force the rest of him to fit the role his frame was built for, and then after he joined the Decepticons he had Megatron keeping him in “his place”. I therefore want to think that we’re meant to interpret Starscream being reforged as not just a picture of what he’d look like if he’d been forged rather than cold constructed, but also a metaphor for how he could have been a different person overall if outside factors allowed it. That would certainly fit better with the ongoing plot line of Starscream’s struggles to change his behaviour as well. 

Not only does he compare himself constantly to Optimus and to the general concept of being a Prime and what that “should be” and how Primes are “supposed to be”, everyone else compares him to Optimus, too. They were both Primes, and nobody ever thinks beyond that one, dazzling, blinding point of similarity.

Rodimus is constantly dismissed, ignored, called out for doing questionable or overly-flashy or loud things, for making mistakes-- For distorting the popular image of what a Prime, or ex-Prime, is supposed to be like. 

So he’s up against actual legend and folklore, social expectations, and direct comparison to someone who has centuries more experience and is a completely different type of person, who has lived under completely different circumstances, who has had actual formal mentors and guidance...

But nobody cares that the comparison between Rodimus and Optimus is totally fundamentally impossible and unfair to make, because again, the Prime title means so many things to so many people, the idea of a Prime and what that should be and how that should work, is so legendary that it’s impossible to reconcile. 

And Optimus is a living Prime, fresh in the minds of everyone, so much the image of wartime leader and a near religious figure to their entire faction. When it got handed off to Rodimus, there was no way he could possibly live up to that.

He was more valued as Hot Rod than as a Prime by most if not everyone he regularly interacts with.  

When he was Hot Rod, it was fine for him to be playful and goofy and touch-focused and loud and make brash decisions. It’s just how he is, he’s high energy as a person all around to the point that his actual frame is designed for motion and speed, and for the most part he never actually messes something up beyond saving even when the decision wasn’t really the best one to make. He makes mistakes, and he goes and tries his best to fix them. He’s not perfect the way Optimus seems to be, to Rodimus himself or to anyone else.

So when he suddenly becomes a Prime, he tries to fix the situation. By picking up the pieces, trying to be the best leader he can be, when he never received any of the preparation or training, had zero notice, had zero actual support from anyone-- He still tried. 

Rodimus has excellent traits for leadership, foremost being perseverance. 

He doesn’t give up, even when he screws up monumentally, or when shit has really gone wrong, or when odds look insurmountable, or when hard decisions have to be made, or when he wants to give up. He doesn’t. 

And when we see him as Captain of the Lost Light, it’s almost as if he’s willingly being a half-assed Captain, because he’s surrounded his command with notoriously experienced and competent people (Ultra Magnus and Drift), and experience and competence were the two things he was always raked over the coals by everyone else about. He was questioned so much that he questions himself, but actually, instead of questioning himself, he seems to just try to Rodimus-proof his own mission.

Which of course, leads to mistakes anyway. 

When he takes the advice of others because he doubts himself too much? It’s bad advice. Listening to Prowl was a mistake.

He’s hurt when he finds out there was a mutiny plot against him, but he wasn’t surprised. 

He hates being called Hot Rod, likely because it reminds him of all the friendliness that disappeared from his casual interactions with others once he became a Prime, and he is a friendly person. It hurts when your friends who used to mess with you are now genuinely questioning and grilling you and above anything else, doubting you... And then afterwards? Everyone just ignores him. It never went back to friendliness, those relationships were nearly all lost.

Rodimus doesn’t like himself, and the way others treat him feeds into that constantly. He is always dismissed, ignored, pushed aside, or sometimes even outright belittled. His experience, comments, and ideas are, generally, not respected even when he is in a significant role of involvement. 

He hates himself so much that he’s almost obsessed with himself; The Rod Pod and the Rodimus Stars in MTMTE are great examples. Other people just see it as being self-absorbed for the sake of being self-absorbed, but I feel like Rodimus does that kind of stuff because he wants to reassure others and pretend like he’s fine, like he’s confident in a way that he’s not, and it works. It works way too well. 

Nobody values him for his strengths and they overly focus on his flaws or errors; Even in MTMTE, I think he’s complimented maybe twice on his people skills/friendliness and his desire to genuinely do good for other people. One of those times, it is a begrudgingly given compliment. 

And that’s it. 

People look at him and think he’s just a loud dumbass who acts before he thinks and makes for an incompetent Prime. 

Optimus got people through a war, sure. And that’s not insignificant. 

Optimus is a great at managing wartime. Strategy, tactics, battle plans, the classic beloved romanticised leader. A cult of personality, a figure to his bots. 

And Rodimus isn’t the kind of bot who does that particular type of leadership very well.

But Rodimus is better for dealing with the actual effect of that war on people; He saw people hurting while he himself was hurting, and made the rash decision to say fuck it and follow a legendary story into deep space with a bunch of fellow disillusioned, messed up people, and by the end of it, those people felt better.

Rodimus is a good leader, he’s just been expected to be a kind of leader that he’s not. But when he goes off and does his own thing? The road is long and winding, but he will get to the finish line one way or another, even if it’s not the way he was expected to do it, even if nobody else would have done it that way. 

Wartime leaders and peacetime leaders require very different approaches and personalities. 

Some people say Roddy didn’t deserve the Matrix. I think he just got the Matrix a little too early in the timeline of events.  

So I have a sparkling character. But my question is: ‘Til what age are they a sparkling ? Very few canon informations exist about Sparklings and the term itself seems to comes from the fandom (source: tfwiki). However it has been use in the comic since - I can’t remember witch issue but - something about a tf trying to insult an other in a very childish way and immediatly being glassed by his friend like “are you a sparkling or what?”

So I went on a little adventure in the two Transformers comic issue talking about baby Cybertronian (on the top of  my head - there might be other but I don’t remember/read them) :  - ROM Vs Transformers #1 - the Holiday Special - especially the second story

We’ll only talk about forged Sparklings in here. Constructed cold Sparklings are obviously differents.

First I’d like to signal that I do a difference between the words Sparkling and protoform. In my own headcanon (and ‘til proven wrong) protoform is the stage where the Cybertronian is forming his shape (baby) ; while sparkling is the fully formed Cybertronian but in their very youth (child).

Let’s go !

Following this page of the Holiday Special we gather: - Protoform are usually referred as “she”. - Protoforms can be of any shapes and size. - They’re warm til their true shape is found - Minutes are needed for a face. - Hours are needed for alt-mode/fonction clues - They look like mashmallows.

Now from these pages of ROM vs Transformer #1 we learn: - Protoform seems to look the same-ish in their starting form NOTE: I don’t think those are constructed cold bodies - Stardrive talk about “solidifying” meaning her metal wasn’t and so from my very limited knowledge in metal physic: not-hard-metal = warm metal - Any shape and size again: she’s bigger than ROM (whom is regular-size human ? I think ?) - Able to create sound/words but seems to take a lot of effort/energy - probably because they didn’t developped a voicebox yet and so are stuck like movie/TFP Bumblebee and his beeping. - Sparking have to learn to talk and social interactions - Five solar cycle (5 years) are needed to finish the development (I suppose cause it’s a date they took the time to stop at in the narration) and being able to transform. - On the next pages (not saved) the story continue and Stardrive is 10 years old during the comic.

We also have the very small fact that Cybertronian are put to work their function after 2 weeks of age. For those who don’t read MTMTE, Tailgate - the white one- was working on the Ark and after an accident fall in a deep sleep at the take-off. During the comic he comes out as a curious and young-minded bot.

So those are the fact I could gather from those pages. Now to the speculations ! - Again I feel the need to say that those are my personnal interpretation, you are welcome to disagree/agree/fight me! -

- Protoforms are warm marshmallows that needs hours to be able to function (aka walk/see/talk…) - they are probably to be protected by then because of their metal fragility. - They may start small (cybertronian baby size) to grow up their final size withing these hours of forming. - They look the same when forming the basic shape (1 torso, 2 leg,2 arms, a face, two eyes ect..) and develope their own identity once the basic are covered. - After five years their development is over and their shape is final - however they are still considered a child :

- They can work right fter the Sentio-Metallico cool off - I suppose they can learn to fight as well (in ROM vs Transformers, Stardrive become a knight at age 10 after 5 years of training).

“So How old a Cybertronian must be to not be a sparkling anymore ?” I still don’t know. Cybetronians can live millions of years while still acting young (source: Rodimus made before the war, aka 4 millions years ago and still act like a godhecking teen !) so: -  I suppose that their “young” phase are longer than ours, human. - BUT, knowing that they are machine that can walk and talk within hours of their creation, I kinda also want that phase to be shorter - cause machine can learn faster blahblah.

note: The sources are uncertain because, aside of “MTMTE/LL” I can’t follow a comic serie to save my life. But the images that follow are all from “Optimus Prime”

note2 : we are, once again, talking exclusively about “forged” transformers. 

note3: Most of it are headcanons. So don’t take it as the Truth.

PHASE 1 : THE MELTED MESS ! (no I wasn’t really inspired for a name here… sorry)

Age: Right when the hot spot is activating. They’re… not really a thing. Mainly it’s the phase were the sentio metallico clamps around the spark and forms the main squeletton. The spark also gather enough metallico to form…

PHASE 2: THE BEANS !

Age: from hot spot time to let’s say 5 hours. You know them! You love them: it’s the cute marshmallows! This is when the deep coding is doing his works and the bean will slowly devellops it’s face and limbs to become…

PHASE 3 : THE SCRAPPY LITTLE GUYS! (to quote Arcee)

Age: from 5 to 24 hours. Less simplified than the beans those cybertronians are still called protoforms for they are not complete yet - I mean… no offense to no mouth transformers babes out there but the faces of the three example above REALLY feels not finished. However, unlike precedent phases, they are independant enough -even fighting-good-enough to surprise-attack an experienced warrior like Arcee- to move around and do basic stuff like -I suppose - learning.  It is during this phase that the Cybertronian devellops their alt-mode. Then comes the

PHASE 4 AND FINAL: THE SPARKLINGS!

Edited to add the tags on the post since I was told not to hide them :3

So Megatron (after dark cybertron) he told Ratchet that he wanted to be a medic.

And I think it's because of Terminus. He was "sick" and needed help. But because he was a miner nobody gave a damn. Only Megatron. He always helped him but he couldn't give him proper help becuse he wasn't a medic. And he know that nobody will help his friend. So he wanted to became a medic so he could finaly help him.

And in the functionalist universe he became a medic. So now he can finaly take care of his friends.

One comment I've heard among people comparing IDW1 MegOP to other continuities of MegOP is (paraphrased) that since they weren't friends before the war, there isn't as much material to ship them with/they don't have an established dynamic/they don't have ~*history*~ that makes them be the bitter exes we all know and love them to be.

In this meta post, I'm going to contend that the IDW1 MegOP lack of friendship before the war is actually a benefit to their dynamic in this continuity, not a negative. Although they didn't get a lot of time together before the war in terms of quantity, the quality of their interactions and the weight it gave their future rivalry is due to the tragic nature of their relationship: They saw a glimpse of each other at their best in their youth, but like a tragic myth of old, circumstances conspired to keep them apart, traumatize them, and turn them into people who couldn't trust or reconcile with each other.

Okay! Without further ado, here's my IDW Transformers (main continuity) reading order that I said I was putting together, complete with a lot of commentary to try and help new readers understand what's what and where to start.

The DC Universes soulmates are ones that feel each other's pain. Damian's soulmate is clumsy, as he sometimes gets the occasional bruises and scratches out of nowhere. He strives to be the best at combat as to not hurt his soulmate, but being raised by assassin's proves to be difficult.

The DP Universes soulmates can write words on their skin that'll appear on their soulmate. Danny has written and written to his soulmate many times, and has only gotten a little over a handful of responses back. He knows his soulmate is a boy, his name is Damian and that he likes art and animals.

But it never failed to blindside him when one of his children got hurt.

They were at a watchtower gathering, a party to celebrate to welcome new members, and remember the old.

His children should be safe here, amongst Family and various vigilantes and heros.

Then why from across the room did he watch his youngest grip his chest and fall to his knees.

Bruce was halfway across the room already when Damian curled around himself and let out an absolutely agonizing scream.

Damian didn't scream, not like that.

That was a scream of someone dying, a wail many recognized, a sound that haunted all heros.

Worse than the scream was the dead silence that followed as Robin stopped screaming and fell over into Superboys arms.

Bruce, nearly body checking green arrow out of the way, pulled his son out of Superboys hold as the boy stuttered out.

"H-his heart its- " cutting off into tears.

Damian wasn't breathing and with a shaking hand Bruce checked for a pulse.

Nothing.

He could feel distantly his other children behind him, Dicks choked sobs a background tempo to the sounds of his own ragged breathing and broken heart.

CPR, he had to start CPR.

But before he could start compressions, his youngest gasped in a deep breath and shot forward.

Danny's powers are...too much. They're beginning to contradict each other, and starting to hurt. If he doesn't offload half of his powers to someone, they're gonna eat him, according to Frostbite.

And it can't be someone from his dimension, or the powers will kill whoever their in, body and soul, in a desperate attempt to reunite with him.

It has to be someone with at least fifteen years of life left in them from a different dimension, to give the powers time to acclimate and settle in that persons soul.

He searches across dimensions from the Ghost Zone, trying to find someone who wouldn't ever abuse his powers. Like, for villainy. A little abuse to fuck around is fine and expected, Danny does it himself, but he doesn't want a villain to have his powers.

After months of searching, he finally does it.

He finds someone.

Damian Wayne.

A kid massively misunderstood by many, many people; but one who would never go bad.

Danny couldn't find a reality where Damian fell into Villainy.

If his father did, he would tag along until it became obvious what was happening. If vampires started cropping up, he wouldn't join them or their villainous ranks. If the zombie apocalypse started, he'd sacrifice himself to end it.

He was pedantic, definitely had violent tendencies, and had the perfect attitude required to tame some of the powers he would be getting.

Damian, struck unconscious in the battlefield and oblivious to the family that thinks he's dead, accepts a strange offer in his injury-induced feverdream.

Robin wakes up, eyes glowing, as he floats above the battlefield-and the debris he was covered in rise with him.

(I have no idea what "nerf someone" means.)

I can see Jason being sooo jealous because Dami is living like one of his fantasy protagonists.

And the rest of the family? When they find out the reason Damian was chosen? angsty and hilarious.

Everyone has a mark somewhere on their skin that represents the place where they'll first have their fated touch them.

Danny has an unusual one, a dark green imprint of hands has taken up the majority of his throat for his entire life.

Damian isn't upset by his lack of soulmark, or he didn't use to be,over the years that changed. But as it turns out, he did have a soulmark! Just not one that was visible from the outside.

Damian didn't have a mark. Other than the scars he had earned over the course of this life, his skin was bare.

He used to believe himself above others for it. Was prideful that he was among the small handful of people throughout history to not have a mark.

Even GrandFather had one.

A mark wasn't inherently romantic. There were platonic marks as well, someone who would make a significant impact on your life. You weren't even guaranteed to meet them, but the mark was there regardless.

They at least had the reassurance that the other half of their soul was out there.

Damian didn't even have a bleached mark of a passed soulmate.

He wasn't proud of that anymore.

Not after seeing the stupid blue dot on Drakes nose, and the way the Clone looked at him.

Nor the orange fingerprints that cradled Richard's jaw, or his Father's lips that looked stained with ink, always stretched in a smile when Kyle was around, her own lips stained as well.

Not all marks were as obvious as some of his family's ,most being a light outline of the eventual place you first come into contact with your half, not yet having gained the colour of touch. But not one inch of Damians Skin held a mark.

After coming to live with his Father, he realized the world looked upon the Markless as a curse. An affliction. Having not realized upon his introduction to Gotham, he wasn't shy in announcing it.

Now people at galas and in public treat him like he's dying, or even worse, like a small child!

Even his family at times.

Every documented case of someone markless ended tragically.

Not that plenty of those with marks didn't also end horribly. Soulmates meeting in the heat of battle on opposing sides. Shaking hands leaving a mark covered in blood as they try to undo what can't be undone.

But no mark at all.

Putting it curtly, 1 of only 3 markless known to be alive at this moment was the Joker.

His mother told him this meant he would conquer the world. Her Great Alexander.

It figures that Alexander was Markless too. What was once a dream was now a nightmare. He had certainly started to feel cursed.

As Damian looked down at the photos, laid in front of him, he was sure he was.

His own chest cut open, pictures of surgery he had yesterday from a GSW that had come an inch to close to the heart.

Upon said heart was a lighted yet to be touched mark. The imprint of a hand gripping his heart with full force. Every finger and complete palm wrapped as if to tear it out or crush it completely.

He did have a Mark. His soul had another half.

Closing the file that contained the photos he ignored the slightly sad look on Richard's face and turned his head away, he pressed the morphine button he was always given but until now never willingly used and he drifted off.

Either way, he always knew he'd be a tragedy.

One second he was in Gotham on a pre-college vacation, next thing he knew it was like the entire sky was torn open and some alien force was deciding to claim it again.

It was messy and Danny was sure he had at least one gash in his side, but he wasn't gonna complain since the big wig heros, looked like superman, batman, the flash, some of the local anti heros like red hood and his crew, as well as killer croc, and even some of the villains that weren't entirely on the dark side like ivy, Harley, riddler, and two-face, all taking down the main crew of the alien ships.

At some point, Danny ended up in the park District, fighting there with locals as well as the vigilantes in the area, Signal somewhere a couple hundred yards from him, and nearby was Robin. Everything was going well, until it wasn't.

One of the aliens had yanked didn't power lines, normally not an issue but a different one had broken a hydrant, and while he and the local heros were edging the fight away from the risky area, Robin got thrown by an alien, which was the final move it did since the sword user cut the being's head clean off just as he was being thrown.

Right into a puddle that was in part connected to a still live wire.

"No!"

Signal rushed over, the fight being taken over by the locals who were easily finishing off the stragglers, Danny flying but far behind him.

"Shit shit, little bird if you die on me I'm gonna kill you myself, you still owe me game night!" It was a half strangled plea Danny wasn't sure he was supposed to hear as Signal tried to find a way to get the other teen out safely.

"Here, I'm immune, stay back." Danny didn't wait for a response, darting in and scoping the had-been-spasming-but-now-to-still-for-their-liking teen out of the water with careful hands, glad the gloves in his ghost form kept the electricity out now, he didn't need triggering himself.

Signal barely waited for the other to be laid down, rushing to him and starting CPR.

"Fuck, fuck, I... Wait, if you're immune, can you channel it? If we can give him a small shock we can restart his heart!" Signal misunderstood him, but in theory Danny could still do that, though without electricity and only because of Frostbite teaching him basic field medicine and emergency moves.

"I... Alright but it's not going to be the way you think it will. Stand back." Danny cautioned, taking off his one glove, it was easier to minimise the ecto he creates-thus not using to much-without the glove.

Signal clearly knew it would be fine somehow, stepping back as Danny stepped close, kneeling down and taking a deep breath, turning his hand partially intangible and plunging it through the skin of the other teen, turning his hand back to tangible when he found the heat, wrist still intangible as he carefully wrapped his hand around the organ and made sure to carefully, by feel, find the right nodes and carefully pulsed ectoplasm into them, the organ shuddering back to action within seconds.

Clearly Robin was a quick revival, as he was soon coughing and darting upright seconds after, Danny barely getting his hand out of Robin's chest in time to avoid damage.

"Woah careful the-agh!" The sudden hands around his throat, and the flood is warmth from them fitting right into the outlines wrapped around his neck, startling him into silence, even as he didn't need to breath currently, he still panicked.

"Robin! No! He saved you!"

"His hand was in my chest!"

"Which isn't injured if you look!"

"How..."

Damian was grown in an artificial womb, in Lazarus water, and later exposed to a chaos shard.

Then he was tossed in Lazarus Water to see if he would drown.

Damian is super fucking liminal.

But his liminal quirks are firmly buried under a lifetime of being raised by Ra's and Talia, in an effort to make it seem like Damian was 100% stable. All so Ra's would not have an excuse to be rid of him.

But away from that, as he is finally toning down, it starts up again.

He has no idea he's doing it.

When he's content and sleepy, he'll fucking purr.

Instead of "Good Morning" he lets out a small chirp.

Sometimes he forgets to verbalize "what" or "why" and make trills instead.

In his sleep he'll sometimes speak in a language no one understands, that hurts their ears.

No one brings it up; he didn't do it when he arrived, and the more relaxed he gets the more it happens. Ergo, he's probably a meta of somesort, via exposure or otherwise, and if they question him about it he'll get embarrassed.

Tucker Foley, newly hired onto the Development team at Wayne Enterprises, overhears one of these chirps as Damian tails after his father during one of his visits.

Tucker, out of instinct from dealing with Ellie, let's out an answering chirp of his own.

This.

Genius.

@lunarflare64 you have rewritten my brain and watered my crops

No one taught Dami the difference between play fighting and serious assassination fighting in the League he was deadass encouraged to kill training partners he cannot tell when he is playing or serious

And yeah it causes Tucker a lil trouble too early on cuz he’s immediately Damian’s new favourite person since he understands the chirp (post careful explanation)

And Tucker tries a lil gentle play fighting on a work break one day, like throws a paper plane at Dami for him to throw back (rawr very serious attacks) and Damian just

Stares at him

“Why are you attacking me”

And Tucker has to very gently try to explain to his boss’s boss’s boss’s kid that play fighting is how he bonds and is good for him

Dami goes home to consider this and decides Tucker is too weak to play fight with but maybe his siblings are not and he and Cass nearly fucking kill each other on the mats until Dick breaks it up and reminds them to play nice

Dami protests he needs to play fight with someone, Tucker says it is important for his wellbeing, and Dick is back to trying to gently explain the difference between play and real fighting

1) no edged weapons

2) only agreed upon levels of injury

It’s still more serious than anything Tucker’s ever seen and Tim declares he needs a third rule ( 3) you have to warn people first and schedule a time and place)

This is when it degrades to a prank war, because Damian is chafing a lil under the rules of play fighting and Tucker casually suggests he can also bond by playing tricks on people

And demonstrates on a coworker by rigging the printer to squirt ink

Let’s add that here.

HOLY SHIT

EVEN BETTER

Poor wee lad has reverse-Fenton!

Bruce will CRY Dick will DIE it will be wonderful!

One day, Talia shows up at the door of Fentonworks, hoping to talk to the adult ghost that brought a new light to her beloved baby boy's eyes, and helped him find his own passions, free from expectations or influences from the Bat or the Assassins.

She's wary, but curious about Damian's eye color change after his mood improved so much.

So Danny (and I'm thinking in terms of High King Phantom, because that's my favorite trope in the Phandom, and I think he deserves the Fenton Growth Spurt as an adult) sits her down to discuss the Lazarus Waters while his parents try their best to reign in their excitement at a possible new form of ectoplasm, and lead Talia through the tests and measurements.

I imagine her own ghostliness isn't enough to make her a full halfa, but she would become one if she dies again, with all the ecto in her veins, or visits the Infinite Realms frequently enough. But is IS enough to give her an Obsession, and she was very close to being Vlad 2.0, with Batman as her Obsession.

Maddie drags her off to spar, as proper ghostly introduction, since they're both fighters. While Jack and Danny work on fixing her up a personal ecto filtration device so Talia gets to have her own pure ecto supply to fight off the corrupted ecto of the Lazarus Pits. Made to look unassuming and harmless, so Ra's won't notice it.

Half an hour later and the two mothers come back bruised, limping, and Talia's eyes have become the brightest, clearest shade of golden tourmaline Danny's ever seen. He thinks they don't quite match Sam's ametrine gemstone eyes, or Tucker's own shade of aquamarine, but he thinks he knows why Batman would fall for this woman.

Talia's first order of business while clear-headed for the first time in ages? Why, destroy her Father's influence and then the man himself, and then use the League of Shadows to help her Beloved (and she can finally truly let herself express her feelings for the man under the cowl of the Bat) heal Gotham as was always his dream. All while doting on Damian like she never had the chance to before, what with the influence of the Pits, and Ra's "training".

And what of Jason? It's been a while since the little angry Robin has left the safety of her nest. He could do with mom coming by to visit!

Talia leaves Amity Park with her new gift, her mind fully returned, and a standing invitation to come duel Phantom and Maddie Fenton, along with many other Ghosts who appreciate a good fight, whenever she feels the itch to fight well up under her skin. Plus a Fenton Phone and a direct line to Phantom, and subsequently Frostbite, if she ever feels any inkling of Ghost powers appearing.

Damian “teaching” Talia to chirp because yeah Danny and the Fentons explained it all and she knows enough to work it out, but he’s been learning for longer

Just

The pride in his lil heart, teaching his Mother something new about herself as she always had for him

His human mind wants to resent what she put him through, what he’s learned was so wrong, but without the tainted ecto she literally feels so different to his liminal side it’s hard to recognise her as the same person…

But she is his Mother in an ectobonded way that got smothered under all the contamination

Dami’s liminal half recognises her instantly as his mother, but it’s genuinely difficult for him to connect her to the woman who raised him so harshly, who (to his baby eyes) condoned all he was put through

The less liminal are confused as hell cuz why the fuck is anyone trusting Talia?? They know who she is she’s an expert manipulator wtf??? Clearly this is a trick????

But for the more liminal, for Damian and Jason and Cass and Bruce, it’s like arguing that the sky isn’t blue

They can’t all explain it, but half the time Bruce forgets the woman he knows Talia is and sees the woman he first met, when she was less contaminated

He fights it as hard as he can, is paranoid as hell until he gets a Fenton rundown himself, and still makes a point to remind himself of the rest of who she is (Talia helps, like FUCK is she getting off the hook for all the fucked up shit she did)

Selina is indispensable as an outside opinion, helping him stay balanced in her views of what Talia is vs what she was because honestly?

She’s not threatened by Talia any more than Talia is by her, and she’s never been scared of reading Bruce for filth

Bruce is Talia’s Obsession but oh she very quickly gets a crush on Catwoman, a clear equal, and she has always had to share her interest in Bruce

He was never only hers, everything hers was her father’s, so she’s well primed to share Bruce with someone she actually likes

And maybe there’s a part of Talia that wants to free her father too. To give him clarity like she now has

(People aren’t losing anything to the pits with over exposure, the contamination just wipes out all emotional control and hypes bad feelings)

But Ra’s… well, there’s not enough of Ra’s left. The contamination is so soul deep after so long that to remove it will End him

Talia may never even have met the man her father was; he’s been the living extension of the rot for so long

That makes it easier to mourn him once they’ve finished with the corruption using his name, and the League? Well, they’re so very used to unquestionable orders

They don’t ask why Talia sends them in groups to be “trained” in Amity Park

Most are only sick from proximity, which is easy to clear and leaves them more emotionally aware and in control of themselves, vs the League’s old Heavy Repression Or Death

The healed descend upon Gotham, and while Bruce gets Real Pissy about his no killing rule… well, people disappear all the time

It’s just the rich ones, the leaders, the court of owls vanishing into the shadows now

League Vs Talons the fight gets FUCKED the second Talia realises the damn Talons are ecto contaminated and can be treated too

Every healed Talon joins the League

Bruce throws The Biggest hissy fit, but… Gotham is healing

The chokehold of corruption, of the rich and powerful, has finally broken and the city can breathe

Whatever there that lures people to madness suddenly has fewer desperate, starving ears to whisper into

New rogues stop cropping up

Old rogues calm, even the ones still making their schemes have less manic energy forcing them onwards

A DeadSerious Prompt where a young Damian follows his mother's advice about finding his future 'Beloved' and is smitten with a TimeTraveling Ghost King (Prince) Danny when his grandfather summoned the eldritch being.

Damian, despite being young, will want no other to be by his side once he takes over the League. Especially since the King was able to strike fear in his grandfather for even just for a moment.

Danny, whose just started taking up his soon to be Kingly title and duties, at first freaked out when a kid who just got out of toddlerhood is offering marriage. Who wouldn't. And well while he didn't fully encourage it, he found it a little adorable and tried to nudge the kid away from said... err crush feelings?

He was a little sad to have to say goodbye to the kid when his month long stay with the al Ghul's (mostly to see if they're worthy to keep the Pits) he was pretty for sure he'd never run into the kid again and if he did who knows how old they'd actually be because again.. time travel.

So Danny now at the age of 16 really wasn't expecting to be basically be cornered on his first day at his new school at Gotham Academy by a 17 year old Damian Wayne who is leaning over him and says "Hello Beloved. Time has been kind to you it seems."

Danny's poor half-alive heart is currently dying from being cornered by an older Damian.

So have this DpxDc idea.

So, the Justice League and the Light (OR villains in general) have two newish members, they've both been around for about a year and they're from the same plane of existence (a place called the Infinite Realms according to those who dabble in the occult)

And the two seem to have some serious beef with each other.

Wisp and Wrath are basicly feral cats hissing and hekles raised when they spot the other and their fights normally ends in draws. They're evenly matched and sometimes the two even fight to the point they are out of steam and just fist fight.

Needless to say everyone believes they totally hate each other and might one day kill (or end?) One of them.

So everything gets turned upside down when suddenly both factions of heros and villains are suddenly summoned to the Infinite Realms.

In a throne room.

In front of the Infinite King (or most commonly known as the Ghost King)

A King who looks very, very much like Wisp and Wrath (like yeah the two do sometimes look alike, like when they grin with sharp teeth and their hair color, but one has blue skin and red eyes for crying out loud!)

He's staring at them, glowing green eyes that seemed to just... know.

"Welcome to the Infinite Realms. I am King Phantom." His voice echoing in the throne room and seemed to rattle them deeply, like a sudden chill in the early morning.

"I have summoned you all here for a single reason." He continued to say "Tell me..."

Here he paused, closed his eyes before leaning back on the chair then he smiled big and cheerfully asked.

So: you’re new to the DC Comics fandom and are interested in Batman and his family. Maybe you already know a bit about them and are just looking to figure out where to start reading actual comics. Maybe you know nothing. Maybe you know a whole lot about one character but want to start reading more about another one.

Whichever it is, I’m here to help! There’s a wide range of Batman/Batfamily comics (for all ages, moods, and types of people), and I’m happy to meet people where they are and help people dive into comics. On that note, brace yourselves, because this is going to be a long post. Recs start under the cut.

——IMPORTANT NOTES ABOUT READING COMICS——

Superhero comics are traditionally written in what’s known as runs; an author gets to have an extended period on an ongoing (or limited) title where they (traditionally) write in 4-8 issue story arcs; think of these arcs as chapters in a potentially never-ending book. These individual issues are colloquially known as floppies. So when I talk about “Tom Taylor’s run” on the Nightwing title, for example, I’m talking about the (as of now) current writer, who’s been the main author on the Nightwing title since March 2021 and whose story arcs begin with Nightwing #78. Every so often, titles end, the principal author on the titles switch up, or they’ll have “guest/interim authors” come in to do single issues or a single story arc.

These story arcs are then collected in hardcovers or ‘trade paperbacks’ (generally referred to as trades, occasionally TPBs); both collect the entire story arc (plus bonus/behind the scenes material, in some cases) in a single paperback/hardback book. Trades are super useful if you want to read an entire story at one time, want to be economical about your comics spending, and/or want to read things in order. Occasionally, if a writer has a particularly long run on a title or a big company event happens, you get published omnibuses that collect an entire event or run (or part of it, if the event is big enough); omnis are very expensive up-front, but ultimately they tend to be good deals and are often curated well. These collections are all generally also released digitally. Frankly, unless you’re into comics collecting, want individual issues for their pretty covers, or are supporting a currently ongoing run, I would default to buying trades/omnibuses where possible. It’s simply cheaper and easier for reading.

List Notes: Each character list is sorted vaguely chronologically according to a combination of IRL publication dates and the character’s personal timeline. Big caveat that these are not all-inclusive reading lists; I’m just trying to hit major character highlights. You should also note that many comics contain multiple Batfam members due to the ridiculous number of crossover events and the solid integration of the Batfamily as a whole into each others’ books in the post-90s era. Comic rec tl;drs are given at the end of each character’s list. Most of the links will take you to Amazon/Comixology, but I also talk about various ways to access and read comics at the bottom of this post.

Secondary Note: DC Comics works in three universes: the pre-Crisis universe (everything published from the beginning of DC Comics until the Crisis on Infinite Earths event in 1986), the post-Crisis universe (everything published between 1986 and 2011), and the post-Flashpoint universe (2011-now). 

In 2011, DC completely rebooted their universe following the ‘Flashpoint’ event. This new universe (interchangably called the New 52 universe, post-Flashpoint universe, or Prime Earth) drastically changed many characters’ histories, personalities, and relationships with each other (sometimes for the better, most of the time for the worse). The early years of the post-Flashpoint universe are an absolute incoherent mess continuity-wise; DC’s been trying to sort it all out over the past few years with the Rebirth and Infinite Frontier events (with varying degrees of success), and there are definitely some bright bits and pieces, but it is not my favored universe (though I will certainly recommend it where needed or when it’s good). 

Now: let’s get started, shall we? Lists below the cut (please view on blog instead of on dashboard for easy readability and formatting purposes):