Kosegruppie

(skip to 11:00)

TR: For Henrik Holm, this was a dimension of his character that meant more work. 

HH: I had to do loads of research to understand what living with bipolar disorder is like. And because of that I had to dig deep into my range of feelings, both highs and lows. The most important part for me was that the character was believable, that you were part of the journey. Because if I had delivered the lines to clearly, they might not have hit home. So it was a very fine line to thread, that was difficult for me to understand because I don’t have any previous experiences of that. So you had to understand that those who struggle with bipolar disorder have a bigger range of emotions and have the abit to go both lower and higher. So I had to push those limits as much as possible. But I remember that I didn’t have the tools to get out of it. 

TR: And what does that say?

HH: That’s the problematic thing in the beggining of an acting career, when you have the tools to get into a feeling. Acting is largely about tricking yourself. And here I had to trick myself that I was depressed, the tempo was down here. So I put a lot of time to get into it. But to get out of it was the challenge, because I didn’t have those tools. 

TR: Did you get scared that you were getting depressed for reals? 

HH: yeah, yeah. 

TR: That was your experience? 

HH: To a high degree. The filming was a rollercoaster. Because we had such little time, so you had to throw yourself from one thing to the other.

TR: It’s understandable this was a tough role for a young actor. Skam’s producer, now Head of Drama at NRK, Marianne Furuvold, says that this was something they were aware of. 

MF: It was something we focused on a lot during production. Everyone in the cast was offered help from a therapist. And we worked closely with the actors and their families, we were always available to them. And they also got help from the communications and PR department at NRK. Because we wanted to take care of them in such a demanding and special situation that we were all thrown into. 

TR: It might have been tough to play Even. But to Julie Andem it was important that Isak got someone to challenge him in his love story. 

JA: When I was creating a love interest to Isak, I thought what is it- Isak is a character that’s too cool for school. He’s cooler than everyone. What will shake him? It has to be a character he doesn’t understand, that moves in many directions, preferably a bit irrational, that you can’t quite catch. And with that in mind I was like what characters are like that? Is it drug issues? Or what issues make a character behave irrational? I did research and ended up with mental illness. And it wasn’t because it was a gay story, it was because the Isak character, to lose his footing, needed someone irrational to challenge him to fall in love.

(skip to 21:55) 

TR: This is the scene (Isak meeting Even after running from church) that Julie has built the season around. And she of course knew from the start that Even would survive. 

JA: I remember refusing to answer that. There were lots of questions about it but I didn’t have to answer to keep it open. Romeo and Juliet is an arch love story and when I set it up, with Isak watching Romeo and Juliet and the longing, the feeling that that he can never have that kind of love because he’s different. And I wanted to see if it was possible to make the audience envious of Isak and Even’s love story, like he was of Romeo and Juliet. Can you make a gay love story strong enough that the audience wants to be 16 and gay. Both because of Romeo and Juliet’s set up but also there’s always that fear that it can’t happen and that it will end and that makes the power of the love story stronger. And you’re making an irrational character with a mental illness and you see that  here’s a match, it makes the picture whole. You have an important role as a story teller to not just give people hope, you must find a way to make the hope stay. But telling the truth is also important. And sometimes that balance is harder than other times. Maybe there isn’t a lot of hope in the truth. But the most important part with Isak and Even was to show that epic love doesn’t belong to man and woman. So there has to be an epic love story there and it maybe could have ended with death, but I don’t think the hope.. it wouldn’t have been great.  

TR: But with all the references to death, especially the references to Romeo and Juliet, the audience got worried. Especially after Even disappear naked in the night. It even made the crew suffer. 

Mari Magnus: When the engagement is that big, as it was in all seasons but particularly season 3, there’s serious topics in all the season, but especially in that season, there are a lot of feelings in the comment section. And it’s very challenging for the audience to tolarate the time it takes for Isak to lock himself in his room until he contacts Even. And we might be wondering “Is Even even alive?”. It wasn’t.. but that’s how the audience was reading it. And people write “I can’t sleep until I know Even’s well” and I know it will take 48h until you get confirmation. I found it difficult to deal with those things that at the time felt like life or death. And we couldn’t ruin it. But you get affected and you want to just say “it’ll be alright”. But you can’t. And the audience doesn’t want that really either, they want the experience. But at one point the comment section got so intense that Julie put a small hint on her personal instagram account. A picture of Isak and Even in Even’s room where he has a small paper clipping that says Alt er love. And the audience picked up on that and Alt er love became a thing. And that was like a “it’ll be alright” thing. 

(skip to 30:22)

TR: When the season ends, something begins for Henrik Holm. Skam has gotten world famous with this season and that has affected his life ever since. 

HH: The response was huge, largely because there haven't been roles like that on tv. It’s been ten years of a massive response I never imagined when we were filming, because I didn’t know the width of it. It became a responsibility I wasn’t entirely prepared for. I didn’t know there were that many people that felt so alone in their illness. And to them became a light in the dark, or Even was a light in the dark and to them I was Even. I’ve met a lot of people on this journey afterwards that have shared their stories with me and have gotten to experience being part in creating a character that has meant a lot to people. And seeing what it can mean to people has completely changed my view on acting and creating characters. That the role would be so important to people I didn’t understand when I began, but that’s what I’ve spent most time on afterwards, to talk to people who've been affected by this and see how important it has been for them. And in a way I can never understand that, but to be that person in someone’s life has been big as an actor. 

TR: You went to an open casting, got a role and suddenly a few months later you have what you could call a responsibility. As you describe it you’ve become a person people tie to something that means a lot to them. And you haven’t asked for that. That wasn’t in the contract you signed. 

HH: Absolutely not. 

TR: You could imagine it has some negative sides to it as well? 

HH: Oh yes

TR: Let’s hear 

HH: It’s also a huge responsibility to carry, because these people usually don't have anyone else to turn to. And I noticed when some of us went to conventions abroad and met fans, we got fans all over the world, that really related to these characters and got tons of letters and messages. And some of them were so dark it broke my heart what a person can possibly have to go through. 

TR: They write about their own experiences to you?

HH: Yes. In their world I was the only person they could open up to, because my character understood what it was like for them. I don’t want to mention the kind of terrible things I’ve had to read during these ten years, but it has been heartbreaking to see how lonely that existence can be, to put it succinctly. Because a lot of people out there don't have anyone to talk about feelings with. And when you get a character on tv that understands you, that might be the only light in the tunnel. 

TR: At this point you’ve yet to turn 20. 

HH: Mmm, yeah. But that’s the paradox of acting. The better you act the more they believe you really are your character. People have truly believed we were Isak and Even for a long time. And they can’t understand that I’m an actor that has stepped into character. They just want to believe in the universe so badly that that’s what they project onto me. And that’s the biggest downside with becoming famous as an actor. It was a insight I wasn’t really prepared for and a responsibility I took because I didn’t have the heart to turn my back on it. And we didn’t really have the opportunity to do that because we- if we made this show in Hollywood and it because a big success and we made lots of money of it, we would have had the possibility to lock ourselves inisde big houses and not really have any relationship with the response you get, which was extreme at that point. But we all worked on a youth salary at NRK, we didn’t make a lot of money of this so we had to work on the side. I worked at Kaffebrenneriet and we even filmed some scenes at Kaffebrenneriet, which made it “Skam Kaffebrenneriet”. So it didn’t even take two days until it was full of fans with their phones, wanting autographs and wanting a piece or another of the cake. I just had to deal with that reality and it was a lot of conflict inside of me on how I was gonna deal with the attention. Because people think actors love that attention, that we’re very extroverted and do it with a smile but it was a lot harder than that for me. I had to quit Kaffebrenneriet because of it, I had to quit the restaur- I quit so many jobs because it’s been too many hats to wear at once. But over time I’ve also learnt to appreciate it, because people greet me with love. Even if they’ve put me in a box and want me to be Even, they have a lot of love for Even and Even has meant a lot to them. Most of the ones who find me these days are Chinese. They travel from all over Europe and China, it’s often people studying in Europe that come to Norway to find me at work. I work in service now too. You would think it has calmed down after ten years, but it hasn’t. There’s so many Skam remakes in different languages. 

TR: What’s it like if you check “I wonder what Even looks like in Croatian Sram”?

HH: *laughs*

TR: I imagine you do sneak a look?

Torkil Risan (host): In this episode we’ll discuss Skam season 3, episode 5-7. 

skip to 05:55

TR: Previously on the podcast we’ve heard Carl Martin Eggesbø, who played Eskild, talk about how at the same time Eskild became an important character for those watching Skam, he went through a process himself. A process that was put on double speed because of the attention he and the show got, which ended with him coming out as gay. And this scene (the pride speech) with Isak was of extra importance to Carl Martin. 

CME: I knew this scene was happening, and I didn’t have the script. And Julie really wanted to hear my thoughts on the topic, if I had anything I wanted to say. She sent me a draft of what Eskild was going to say in the scene. And I found it very difficult, because I really recognised myself in what Isak is saying here. I thought Eskild was so strict with Isak. I tried to tell Julie that, that I didn’t understand why he had to be so harsh. But she thought it was important. I think some of Isak’s arguments here are very problematic, but at the same time I really understand him, because what Isak really needs is someone like him to look up to, to compare himself with. That’s what he’s missing. So he starts to attack something else, because he can’t find someone like him. 

TR: You’re saying you can see yourself in Isak here? You know where he’s coming from? 

CME: I’ve wondered, it’s a simple question: Why didn’t I fall in love with boys when I was a kid? Why did it feel like that wasn’t normal? That’s horrible. I feel, personally, that a part of my adolescence and teenage years has been taken from me, because I didn’t get to feel safe to love and develop the ability to love. Because I’ve been scared, felt that it was wrong and haven’t had role models. I’ve watched Disney movies and other stories that have shaped me. And what Isak needs is some “straight acting gays” that he can look up to, that can allow him to be who he is. That’s why it’s so important to have different kinds of role models. We can say we’ve come a long, long way and gotten a lot of legalisations and rights. But at the same time, to this day I think it’s very difficult to think about the fact that there’s kids growing up that don't get to learn to love, to recognize their own intuition because it’s not acknowledged that it exists. You see stories about straight love and you think that’s how it is, that’s what love is. And if you then feel some kind of feelings towards the same sex, you almost can’t tell those are feelings of love. 

TR: Isak says what he says kinda because of what you’re saying here. Eskild is a bit more black and white and is quite lecturing. 

Snippet from the show. Eskild: I’ll tell you one thing about the people you don’t want to be associated with, Isak. Those who have put on tights, mascara and went out and fought for their right to be who they are. Those are people who have chosen to withstand heckling, hate, that’s been assaulted and killed. And that’s not because they want to be different that badly but because they’d rather die than pretend to be someone they’re not. And that Isak, that takes courage on a level most people can’t phantom. Before you’ve taken that fight yourself, before you’ve dared to stand up for who you are, you should be very careful with putting yourself above gay pride. 

CME: It makes me emotional 

TR: What hits you? 

CME: It’s the thought of the pain in the fight that they have had to fight, those who got us to where we are today. Who has shared their stories and taken to the streets. But also all those who haven't dared to do that. That might never in their lives have gotten the chance to truly love someone. It’s almost worse. But it’s very moving. And the graveness that comes upon Eskild in that moment is moving. Because it’s usually so much fun to play Eskild and in this scene we suddenly get to the core of who he is - to live in his own freedom. And that can be taken as a threat to many, that someone simply lives in their own freedom. 

TR: Julie Andem understood that this was a scene that Carl Martin Eggesbø had to prepare a little extra for. 

JA: I remember writing that speech and sending it to Carl Martin on Messenger, asking him to take a look at it. I wanted him with me in the writing process. He didn’t respond, and he usually did. So I immediately thought “oh no, I missed the mark, that it didn’t work, he didn’t like it”, like a self indulgent writer. But as I recall it I called him and he said “I like it a lot, but it had to sink in”. And I remember it was very important for him to get it right on set, that he wanted it to have force. 

TR: And Carl Martin was very nervous about how the scene would be received 

CME: I think I was at school, I went to The academy of theatre in Oslo, and turned phone off before class. The clip was dropped during the day if I remember correctly and I remember turning flight mode off and got a message from someone called Kaja who wrote about this scene that she was very moved by it. And I had been very worried, it was so scary to film that scene.

TR: Why?

CME: Because it felt so important. It was important to me to show, after all jokes and fun with Eskild, who the character really was deep down. And it was a relief, I really trusted her when I got that message and understood that I had struck a chord. It was important for me that the acting hit right, that’s one thing, but it was also important to me. That I worried was a sign of that. And it was also scary because I felt like Isak and I had to, or needed to, hear those words myself. 

TR: It’s a scene that has been with Carl Martin since it dropped. 

CME: It’s reposted a lot on social media in different contexts. But most common is when I’m out and people have gotten some Dutch courage, they come over and tell me that the scene has given them a kind of base from where they have gotten to a place where they dare to be themselves. They say they’ve come out and things like that. I get that it has meant a lot to many people. So it’s bigger than I can grasp. And I feel really grateful to Julie Andem who let me take that spot but it’s her words. I admire how wise she is and her care. 

TR: This scene is a result of a method Julie swears by in her work - thorough research with the people who the themes are about. 

JA: In connection to season 3 I did several in-depth interviews with different young people and discussed those themes with them.  

TR: So it’s stories from people who have been stereotyped in the same way Eskild feels like he is by Isak? 

JA: Yes. 

TR: That’s saying something about the strength of your method, that in some cases you can just take something and refine or rewrite, but it has such power when it’s shown. So why hasn’t this been done before Skam? 

JA: I’m sure it’s a combination of things. I’m not sure you had any stories of young gay love before. But also, Isak has a very strong voice, he does not want to live by the stereotype of what it means to be gay. When I did those in dept interview several young men talked about the distance they had to gays that were more over the top, fitted the stereotype. And it was important to talk about what fight lay ahead of them. That was important to have in the season. When season 2 started and we were putting together flatmates for Noora, I already knew Isak was season 3 and it was important to cast an Eskild character that later would help Isak and make him face the parts that were the most difficult, that scared him the most. 

TR: So you knew already then that he would slam Isak? Because for many it would’ve been enough that a mainstream show has a queer storyline. But that you, in addition to that, put that extra twist, I think is very beautiful. 

Torkil Risan (host): In this episode we’ll talk about episode 1-4 of Skam season 3, Even and Isak. The show has a new main character and the trailer hints at the themes we are getting into.

(skip to 27:45)

TR: And actor Carl Martin Eggesbø, who plays gay character Eskild, got a fair share of the attention regarding these themes.

CME: When the season came out, a lot of people asked if I was gay in real life. When I met people in the streets they would say “You’re Eskild? I like the show a lot”. And usually the second or third question was if I was gay for real. My friends and parents got the same questions. At that point, I thought I was gay, but I found it difficult to say with 100% certainty. I wasn’t totally sure. So to publicly play a character that was that sure of his own sexuality, and was very insistent in revealing others sexuality, it was an interesting contrast. And I remember a friend sent me a message, or maybe she called me, and she said “You’ve been outed”. Because she had listened to the podcast Harm & Hegseth, where they had discussed who in the show was actually gay or not. And Morten Hegseth says “Isak is not gay, but he who plays Eskild is”. And Harm asked how he knows, and he just knows. And I remember that felt like the end of the exploration of my own sexuality. And it was a principle for me, a political thing, that I wanted to spend time figuring this out. And I felt some shame that I wasn’t as publicly out as Eskild was. But when I hear Eskild talk about these things, about others that are gay, maybe Morten Hegseth was inspired by Eskild. But then and there it became very clear to me that- It suddenly got very personal. 

TR: Have you talked to Harm & Hegseth about this? 

CME: Nah, I went on Kompani Lauritzen (Norwegian version of reality show Celebrity task force) with them, and my revenge was that I won that whole thing. Jokes aside. I haven’t talked to them about it directly, but I forgive that. You can also criticize Eskild for lots of things that he says. At the same time, I think to be a good queer role model, you give others time and the space to figure their own sexuality out and you don’t publicly speculate about others sexuality. That is, in my opinion, a misunderstanding of what the gay fight should be. 

TR: The podcast episode of Harm & Hegseth Carl Martin was talking about, we’ve found, so let’s listen to a snippet. 

Morten Hegseth (on his podcast, way back): I get very curious about things, so I did some research yesterday. I wanted to check if the person who plays Isak is gay in real life. 

Vegard Harm: And he’s not. 

MH: No. But he who plays Eskild is. 

Vegard Harm: He is, yeah? That I wouldn’t-I thought he was acting.

MH: Nope.

TR: Morten Hegseth is a participant on this podcast as well, as he is a big Skam fan. But anyway, it’s relevant to hear from him what he thinks of Carl Martin’s criticism. 

MH: When me and Vegard discuss who is queer or not queer, the basis is that we don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Because the moment you start to think “we can’t talk about that”, you’re saying that’s something to be ashamed of. But of course, for an actor that young that’s trying to figure himself out, that’s of course not very nice. Looking back at it. But it was a different time. It's almost 10 years ago. Not to say that you were allowed to be an idiot then, but it’s one thing that you shouldn’t speculate about others identity or who they’re together with, I get now that that was stupid. At the same time I’m thankful for the younger generation today that has taught us so much in regards to gender roles, sexuality and all that. You joke about it a lot, adults say “you think you’re so unique, but you’re just recycling the 1900s”. But the younger generation, that came after Skam, has been pretty groundbreaking when it comes to what you should or shouldn’t say about gender and sexuality. And to make assumptions about others' identity, they might change their mind tomorrow, you shouldn’t do that. But you get so obsessed. And is something about, as a queer person, you automatically start to wonder “are they queer in real life too?”. But you shouldn’t draw conclusions. 

TR: At the same time Carl Martin is figuring himself out, he’s also about to become a role model for others by playing Eskild in Skam. So there were many thoughts and feelings to deal with. 

CME: It was a confusing period. A lot of things happened at the same time. There was a discrepancy between who I was and how others saw me. 

TR: At the same time you felt you had to bridge that gap and take a responsibility you just felt like Eskild demanded of you?

CME: I remember my older brother, we were in the kitchen, while I was filming Skam and he asked “but are you gay?”. And I said “I guess I am” and put it out there. And he said “mum and dad would appreciate it if you told them, because they get a lot of questions about it in regards to the show”. I don’t know if it was right or wrong of him to say that, but I understood that it was important to my parents, because they got questions and were unsure and I had to deal with that. I understood there was a momentum there, where I just had to figure stuff out. I didn’t find it difficult to say, but it was a principle to me that- I mean I get that people wonder, because I do too when I watch tv and other contexts too. And I want to be visible and proud, I’ve said in lots of interviews. But at the same time, life’s long and there’s so much to figure out, you can go one way or the other. And I think the most important part is that you’re not lying to yourself and force yourself to explore when you just want to be out there and say that you like guys. But many people like different things and there has to be an openness for that. Eskild became a role model of someone who’s so sure of his gayness. And I felt like many projected that image of Eskild onto me. So I felt that I just had to take that responsibility and quickly be done with my own exploration. Because it was important to me to show that that wasn’t a problem. I get the impression that there’s a lot of actors that, or at least there has been historically, hasn’t been open about their own sexuality because they are scared of not getting any more roles. But I’m not going to let that dictate me. I haven’t thought of that as an actual problem. But I was 20 years old, so I was a little young to get that responsibility. I wish I had gotten time to figure stuff out on my own. At the same time I thought I was important to be a visible role model and I understood that that was important to a lot of people. But Eskild led the way for me too, he was a guru to me. And I didn’t know that’s what he would become. Maybe it was Julie that could see what was inside of me, and put guidning words in my mouth.

TR: Can you place the “blame” that you got this responsibility, you’re 20 and have to put your own process on double or triple speed because you feel like you’ve gotten a responsibility that you haven’t really asked for. Who started that for you? 

CME: There’s many ways to see it. In a way it’s me, who said yes to being part of this. And it’s NRK and all those who have dragged me into this. But really, the problem that this show tries to explore is that it’s difficult for many to grow up with a sexuality outside of the norm. And that’s the real problem. I think terms like “coming out of the closet” are very problematic. I wish it was possible to grow up and feel like there’s room for you to happily explore your sexuality, instead of having to figure stuff out fast, people saying he didn’t come out of the closet until he was so or so many years old. Some people might be helped by defining themself and saying out loud who they are. But for many, I’m thinking of that podcast with Morten Hegseth and Vegard Harm, it’s one thing that I was outed as gay, but I’m also thinking of Tarjei. If he had been gay and the whole world got to hear that he wasn’t. That puts a lock on people. To allow people to explore is very important. But there’s the (clinch?), I thought it was very important that I was clear and said I was gay, because it meant a lot for a lot of people that I was happy about that and didn’t have issues with it. At the same time I wish there was time and space for me to explore and figure stuff out. Because part of the joy of life is to figure stuff like that out. Why does that have to be such a traumatising, stressful thing that you have to decide who you love? There’s wine tastings, coffee tastings and all kinds of things. Why can’t you taste other stuff too? It takes time to find out what you like. I wish I had put that into words earlier, as Eskild. But at that time, in 2015-2016 when season 3 aired, it was important to have a character like Eskild that’s very sure of himself in contrast to Isak wasn’t ashamed of his own sexuality. 

(skip to 44:48) 

TR: I’ve mentioned there’s a lot of symbolism in these episodes. Let’s mention some of it. The music playing during the pool scene, I’m Kissing You by Des’ree, is also on the Baz Luhrmann Romeo + Juliet soundtrack and used in a kissing scene between Leonardo Dicaprio and Clare Danes in a swimming pool. This clip is posted at 21:21. The number 21 shows up in many places in Skam. Those who really know their angel numbers stuff can get something from that which I don’t know if it’s done on purpose, but there’s other things here that are on purpose. Isak is a biblical name. He’s Abraham’s son. And Isak’s birth is in Genesis 1 verse 21. And our Isak is in a way born here. *sound bite from the pool scene* He has at least found out a bit more about who he is, he’s had a second birth. And it happened in the water, that’s also associated with that kind of stuff. And Even is dressed up like God during all of this. And people find these references and hidden symbolism. Mari Magnus was responsible for the digital lives of the Skam characters. In the season 3 banner on the Skam website there was lots to dig into for the fans. 

MM: Many hours of work are behind those. And with Isak, the idea is that it’s Even’s doodles. But there’s also easter eggs put in there. And to get the gay theme across there’s gps coordinates to a public urinal in Bislet (area in Oslo), that’s an old classic gay spot. 

TR: Glory hole?

MM: With a glory hole. 

(skip to 48:00) 

Torkil Risan (host): In this episode we’ll talk about episode 1-4 of Skam season 3, Even and Isak. The show has a new main character and the trailer hints at the themes we are getting into. 

Morten Hegseth: It was very homoerotic. There was milk and a locker room and it created a bit of an outrage, some complained about sexualising homos in that way and why allude to the body and sex. Some were mad, as it always is. But that made me very excited for season 3. 

TR: Were you sceptical? 

MH: Absolutely not *laughs*

TR: At the same time an, at that point, unemployed actor called Henrik Holm has followed the Skam hype during the first two seasons with scepticism. 

HH: I grew up in Oslo, as close to Hartvig Nissen as you possibly could, right across the street on the first floor. I remember thinking “oh my god, that’s not what it’s like to go to high school in Oslo”. I don’t know, I think it hit too close to home for it to feel believable. So to be honest, I was pretty critical. And I remember I saw the famous milk teaser for season 3 and thought “oh my god, are they making a season that’ll sexualise homosexuality? what are they doing?”. 

TR: So you had those thoughts, but yet you went to an open casting call? 

HH: An open casting call. And this was really groundbreaking when it came out, so to get to act in that, was at that point almost like getting cast in Game of Thrones. By Norwegian standards. 

TR: And Henrik is the type of person to prepare thoroughly before an audition. It was important that the character he was reading for, Even, could smoke weed believable. Luckily Henrik knew a place in Stensparken in Oslo where they practiced those kinds of things, so he went to the so-called “Spliff mountain” right before his audition. 

HH: I picked up a stick to make it look like I had a joint. Spliff mountain is a smoking spot. It’s almost, I can’t compare it to Christiania (neighbourhood in Copenhagen), but it’s a sanctuary and it has been for many years. It took some time before someone arrived to smoke an actual joint. They sat down beside us and asked “Hi guys, is it alright if we light up?” and we just “yeah, yeah, no worries, we’re just practicing a scene”. In the middle of the scene I notice some suspicious looking people in hiking gear, who’s not supposed to be up on the hill. And in the middle of that scene where we’re pretending to smoke I just hear “undercover (police), put down what you’re holding”. And the buddy beside me throws his stuff behind him and we’re like hands up, throwing away our sticks *laughs*. They are convinced that now we’ve captured some illegal weed users, so they want our personal details and say “we saw what you were doing. We don’t have evidence, but we saw you smoke”. And I was just thinking “what is happening? how will I get out of this? will this stop me from getting to the audition?” Because from their point of view, we were a group smoking together and every excuse we put forward was just to get away. But fortunately the buddy who was actually smoking said “just let those guys be, I don’t know them, they weren’t with me”. So he took one for the team and we got away that day. 

TR: Henrik aced the audition and got the role. Something that Morten Hegseth was thankful for. 

MH: I would say it’s the closest we’ve gotten to James Dean in Norway. 

(skip to 07:44)

TR: Even is a bit strange in that bathroom scene, he uses an extreme amount of paper towels. This was also a scene that Henrik Holm practiced extra for. 

HH: He had to have the ability to take someone by storm. The character had to capture his (Isak’s) attention like no one had before. So I remember finding it difficult to have that playfulness and indulge in his type of humor. Like in that bathroom scene where he takes all the paper towels and asks “you needed some too?” I had to take that scene out on the town, just to check where the realness was. How do you actually deliver a line like that? Because it was so far away from what I would say. 

TR: It sounds like a scary thing to do, to do Even’s paper towel trick out on the town in Oslo. 

HH: It was a bit scary. 

TR: Even succeeds in getting Isak’s attention. And I want to bring forward a scene that’s a good example of something that Skam is unusually good at, the use of music. Maybe I’m extra sensitive to this one because it takes me right back to being hopelessly in love in high school, just play these few notes. *plays Talk Show Host by Radiohead*. And it’s not necessarily a good feeling. Often being in love is portrayed as something easy and light, but sometimes it’s heavy and difficult, even tragic. This song evokes those feelings. Isak is in the school yard and zooing out while Vilde talks as he sees Evan. And the music is not the only reason for picking this Radiohead song. In Baz Luhrmann’s Romeo + Juliet there’s an iconic scene where we see Leonardo Dicaprio’s Romeo the first time, a reference Julie Andem did on purpose

JA: It came as a result of me deciding to make a parallel to Juliet and Romeo in season 3. And I just thought it would be fun to play with the references from Baz Luhrmann’s movie through the whole thing and it’s an amazing scene when he walks on the beach. 

(skip to 11:45)

TR: The references are not just something those of us who look for them can find, here it’s explicit. Even talks about both Baz Luhrmann and Romeo and Juliet, a story not exactly known for its happy ending. 

JA: Romeo and Juliet is an archetype love story, that I thought- when I put together the scene where Isak watches Romeo and Juliet and that longing for, a feeling that he could never have that love because he’s different. And I wanted to see if it was possible to get the audience to feel jealous of Isak and Even’s love story. Like he was jealous of Romeo and Juliet. Can you make a gay love story that is so powerful the audience wants to be a gay 16 year old? Both because that’s the set up of Romeo and Juliet and because if there's always a fear of it not happening and ending, the power of the love story is stronger. 

(skip to 14)

*Sound bite from the cheese toast scene*

HH: That was 100% improvisation. 

TR: It was?

HH: Yeah, I can tell. I think the only thing in the script were the messages and then it said “they make toast”. 

TR: What’s so beautiful with this is, it’s not about the cheese toast, from Isak’s pov, it’s something new and exciting for Isak. 

HH: It’s like kids playing. And love should be fun. 

(skip to 20:25)

TR: Isak is struggling with his locker, until Even turns up. 

Sound bite from the show, Even: Are you going to the Halloween thing? 

Isak: Nah. Or, maybe, idk. Are you?

Even: Join me.

Isak: Okay. 

Even: Great, then we’ll pre-game together. *slam*

TR: What’s happening there is you, bashing his locker into place, that Isak has struggled with the whole season. I think I missed that symbolism on my first watch. 

HH: There’s symbolism there. And that scene took quite a few takes to get right. I don’t know how many times I hit the locker without it opening 

TR: In Skam there’s a lot of symbolism and references to numbers, little things like the locker. How clear was that to you?

HH: They kept that to themselves. That wasn’t something we were supposed to think about, because the characters wouldn’t understand that context or have that perspective on those things. So those are things I didn’t understand until way later. 

(skip to 25:50)

TR: The themes we’re talking about here, queer love, we haven’t seen a lot of in Norway before this season of Skam. At least not in this way. Henrik Holm experienced people getting really into it, for better or worse. 

HH: It was a little absurd, because people thought we were really gay, to the degree where they thought we were in a relationship outside of the show. And many refused to let that fantasy go, to the degree where they were sending messages to friends, family, partners. 

TR: Like questions?

Torkil Risan (host): In this episode we’ll cover episode 9-12. This is where we find out what happens with Noora and William. 

Sound bite from Vilde: Eva talked to Penetrator-Chris and he said William has gone to London. 

TR: Friday the 27th of May at 16:59, Norway is trembling. And not because there’s interesting things happening on the news. It’s because of Skam. 

Mari Magnus: This was at a point when things had gotten kinda crazy. Skam had gotten lots and lots and lots of attention and we knew that now things will go bananas. 

TR: Leading up to this Friday someone showed the crew what were considered good traffic at the biggest websites in Norway. 

MM: Those were sick numbers. Only VG (newspaper) and NRK in Norway that can compete for those numbers. And we were like “okay, we can beat them, we’ll get as many as possible to the Skam website at 5pm this Friday.” And the same time the fans are creating the hashtag #williammåsvare. 

TR: And if you were one of those who followed Skam when it aired, you remember #williammåsvare. Journalist and influencer Morten Hegseth almost couldn’t take the waiting. 

MH: You were as invested in that as when the Norwegian government was going to recognise Palestina as a state. Like, it has to happen now. It was almost like we were standing at Youngstorget (a square in Oslo) waiting for a speech from Mads Gilbert (a politician known for his support of the Palestinians) saying that William has to reply now. 

TR: Researcher Vilde Schanke Sundet has spoken to many people about Skam. And this was a difficult week for many fans. 

VSS: People say they couldn’t concentrate on their school work because they were just refreshing the website, waiting for the next clip. 

(skip to 09:32)

TR: Let’s stop for a moment at the 17th of May opinion piece (that William wrote for Noora and got published in a major newspaper)

Julie Andem: It’s like writing lines. And I think working so closely with the cast and writing parallel to filming, made me hear their voices in my head. But I remember that article was a little difficult to write as Noora would have written it, with William helping her. And I’m not just trying to gather the essence of the season, I’m trying to say something important on the 17th of May. It’s so unbelievable- it’s supposed to be so many things. 

TR: And the national anthem is playing while it’s read. 

JA: Right. There’s no limit to what it’s supposed to accomplish. So I remember thinking, we discussed it in the crew, if there were any words-

TR: Should we “youthify” it in any way? 

JA: Yeah, that I would say that was a question. 

TR: Another thing is it should also be powerful enough that Noora can take those words on board herself. Now she can finally tell firstly that she’s dating William to her friends, who of course already know, but also tell about difficult experiences. 

JA: Yeah, that’s true. It’s trying to do a lot. 

(skip to 25:07)

TR: The season got its happy ending. But what about the gang sitting in a corner of NRK after the colleagues have left for the weekend? The Skam crew is watching the website traffic in real time this Friday in May at 5pm and is experiencing the dramatic climax together with the fans. 

MM: We are also Skam’s biggest fans. And it felt like we were in symbiosis with the audience regarding some things. And that feeling, that Friday at 5 pm, I think I have a picture of a group of us. We’re pressing play and we are watching the numbers in real time. We see the traffic rising and rising. It feels like one of those moments where you’re really gathering to watch something happening live. It might have been the most fun week at work. 

TR: I can see it in your eyes, they’re shining. You’re back in that week now? 

 MM: Yeah. And that traffic was rising and the NRK website crashed that night. And we crushed it.

TR: What feeling is there to this? Power? It must be a trip. Maybe power is just a component in a cocktail of feelings. But feeling like it’s happening now, and all eyes are watching this room here? 

MM: I’d rather say it felt the opposite. Like it’s something we’re doing together. Noora and William are meeting and it feels like we’re sitting together with the whole audience, experiencing it. And that feeling I’ve not gotten from any other production I’ve worked on. It’s something about that instant-ness that Skam gave, that the format gives. The audience is really with you. You could compare it to a theatre performance, or I could imagine, I haven’t worked in theatre. It’s magic happening there between the audience and what’s happening on stage. It’s something perishable. You had to be there. You can’t recreate that moment ever again. 

TR: It sounds electrifying. And that what they had worked towards succeeded, gave Julie Andem extra satisfaction. 

TR: And I understand everyone here. Those on set, who’s melting, because it is beautiful, but also Josefine. It’s kinda like someone saying “sing as beautifully as you can”. It’s not just the character that’s vulnerable at that moment, you are too. And then it’s almost too good, she does a great job. But I understand that it was hard to do. 

(skip to 11:23)

Sounds bite from Noora during her first date with William: What’s all this? Have you taken notes from a shitty high school movie?

TR: What about you Julie, have you taken notes from a shitty high school movie?

JA: Obviously. All of Skam is, in a way, a high school universe. 

TR: And this Skam universe has gotten a bit bigger at this point in the show. In the first episode we met a new character - Eskild. 

(sound bite from the scene where Noora walks in on Eskild and another guy) 

TR: Typical Eskild? 

*laughter* 

TR: That’s Carl Martin Eggesbø you’re hearing, who plays Eskild. 

CME: What’s happening here is that Noora opens the door and he stands with his ass towards her. A fun fact about that scene - that’s my friend Sebastian Warholm, known from Himmelblå and much more, who’s on his knees. We lived together at that point and Julie said “do you know anyone that can come and blow you?” He didn’t actually, but it was a very fun scene to have as your debut. That’s the first thing you see. You see my ass before you see my face in Skam. 

TR: And Carl Martin really wanted the character to have some nuance. 

CME: I thought about how in shows, often when there’s a gay character, he’s a stereotype - flamboyant and funny. And it stays there. My wish was that he would be more than that. I needed that for myself. But I didn’t really understand how that would play out. So it was more a wish that I spoke to Julie about. That character really grew with me and with Julie. I don’t think that I alone would’ve been able to- it’s Julie that has helped me to articulate what I wish to say with the Eskild character. But I also had a sense for the funny stuff and the type of comic relief that Eskil is. I grew up with Borettslaget (norwegian tv show) and Robert Stoltenberg’s characters, and I like to say that Eskild is a mix of Roy Narvestad (main character in the Borettslaget) and Linn Skåber in Hjerte til hjerte. That just happened, I was simply a product of that time. Eskild grew out of that. And he has a very dominating energy, but who’s also very caring. And maybe because I’m quite bad at following the script or have a hard time learning lines, I did a lot of improvisation and that turned out to be what worked with Eskild. Because I never said the same thing twice. I remember thinking that my role, intuitively, was to go into situations and crush them. 

TR. Crush the situation? 

CME: If someone has a project, I just dominate the room. He’s very dominating, it’s draining to be with him. He’s not someone who respects other people's space a lot. He feels very open himself and because of that he just assumes that others can be open too, instead of assuming they are closed off people. 

(skip to 24:00)

TR: From Vilde Noora often hear things like “you have such good morals”, so maybe Noora needs to meet some resistance to her opinions. At least Julie Andem thinks so. 

JA: Noora has very strong morals that can turn too strong and judgemental towards others. She’s a character with a conscience and she has to learn to lower her morals and listen to other views. All of season 2, from what I can remember thinking the premise was the question of what is good vs evil and what’s in between. You have Noora that’s explicitly good, and William that’s explicitly mean. And is it possible for them to meet in the middle? 

TR: And William is an interesting counterpart to Noora. He’s reminiscent of Mr. Darcy from Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice. Or Mark Darcy in Bridget Jones’ Diary if you’re more familiar with that reference. 

JA: He’s inspired by “the coolest guy at school”. The unreachable, mysterious guy. And he also had to have some questionable values to match Noora’s. And he was a character with a very firm mask. So you think “does he like me or not?”. Someone that’s difficult to read. And that was very important during the auditions when we were casting William. We had a lot of guys in who were great actors and who had the looks to be the hottest guy in school. But I remember thinking that Thomas Hayes has that unapproachable thing that’s almost impossible to play. A strong mask. 

TR: I’m sure that some Ibsen fans are listening as well. And when it comes to couples to liken Noora and William too, Julie Andem has made a clear reference. The similarities between Nora in A Doll’s House and Noora in Skam was too tempting to those creating the Norwegian exams. In 2017 one exam question was: “In the two attached texts you meet two women with the same name. Nora in A Doll’s House wants to leave her husband. Noora from the tv show Skam tries to convince her boyfriend William to not leave her. Compare the two texts and place them in a cultural historical context.” 

TR: At the start of season 2 the comments sections were really taking off. The show was updated daily and people were commenting on everything. 

Mari Magnus: This was a point where it was all crazy. It had gotten lots and lots and lots of attention.

TR: There was one thing the fans had had enough off. 

MM: They got tired of slow motion. They wrote “typical, now there’s slow motion again when a hot guy arrives”. This was alluded to in season 2 when William has been in a fight with the Yacuza boys and arrives at the school yard to a Kanye West song. The perfect song to the perfect clip. He says “I need a slow motion video right now”. The wind was perfect that day. We didn’t have a wind machine, but I’m sure someone commented “Wow, does Skam have a wind machine on set now”. But Noora’s hair just blows up perfectly when William walks by and such fitting lyrics. 

TR: The guys are pretty cool at that moment. And the song fits perfectly. 

MM: And the song is a nod to them, like “ok we know you don’t like slow motion”. 

TR: Maybe worth noting that this was before Kanye West, amongst other things, became a self declared Nazi and his music could be listened to to a much higher extent without also taking a stand on the views he’s more and more associated with.

(skip to 33:45)

TR: To Julie Andem, Vilde and Sana were easy characters to create gold with. 

JA: Always, if you placed Vilde and Sana in a scene together, something would happen. Because they have very different values, but also very different energies and ways they communicate. So they were always super fun to put into a scene together. 

(skip to 38:10) 

Sound bite from William: Why do you spell Noora with two o’s? Nobody else does. 

TR: Thank you, William. Julie Andem can tell us. 

LT: I’m like ugh and scroll past it. Or, I do find it nice to see the picture and that it says Skam but I would never press play on it. I watched the first season because it was so absurd to me to be in that position and get that opportunity. So I was very proud that I had made it. That I got that job and wondered how I would do and I could see it went well and people liked it. That was cool to see. And then there was so much attention and a lot of outside pressure so I had to distance myself from it. I hope that one day in the future I can sit down and enjoy it, but I’m not there yet.

(Skip to 22:55)

TR: This is the break up of Jonas and Eva, laid over a sex scene. A very well known scene, set to Take me to church by Hozier. A song that doesn’t only have good associations for Lisa Teige.

LT: That song is ruined- nah *laughs*.

TR: What’s your relationship to this song, because you’re the main character in a scene where this song is very important .

LT: The song is a emancipation song in a way. Really a very beautiful song. But it’s also this meeting between Jonas and Eva, where something is over, but you still like each other a lot and it’s not an easy thing to realize that it’s over here for us. But she stands quite strong in it and it seems like she’s thought a lot about it. But I do think she’s kinda mean at that moment.

TR: She is. But now she’s going to find herself, which I think is very mature of a 17 year old. Do you remember what the reaction was to this, outside of Skam? Because at this point in time, Skam is already big.

LT: I didn’t read comments, so I haven’t heard that much about it, besides those I’ve met that have talked to me.

TR: What do they say?

LT: Everyone wants them to be together. And you’re cheering them on if you’ve not been in a similar situation and can see that maybe I should've made that decision but I couldn’t do it. You look up to Eva for that. But you get very fond of them as a couple and wish for them to be together. So I think maybe it hurt for the viewers to see that they weren’t.

TR: Why did you keep away from the comment sections?

LT: In the beginning there weren’t that many comments but then it was so much. It’s been a platform to discuss and follow along in a different way to other shows and I never actively went there. But then you were contacted on social media and all kinds of places. And I remember Julie telling me that if you take to heart the nice comments, you’ll also listen to the mean ones. And that really stayed with me. So I listen to the nice comments from close ones and I’ve tried to keep a distance from the rest.

TR: What spaces does Skam have in your life today? And what has that process been like?

LT: It’s gone from being super intense, both with filming and being that small family on set, to it just ending. It was very quiet, very sudden afterwards. And that’s weird. Because it’s very intense working with film and tv. And you felt that you needed to take a step back from it and consider who you are and who you want to be, what’s your next step. And time has passed and I think it’s strange people come up to me and say “hey, I like Skam”, that they’ve watched it yesterday, because it feels so far away. And I'm struggling to remember what happened. It’s strange. But Skam sneaks its way into my everyday life. Constantly when I greet people they say “I think I know you, how?” and it could be that’ve met before but often it’s “Skam, yeah, I remember now”. So I can’t get away from it. It shapes my life in a lot of ways when meeting other people.

TR: It’s a lot of positive feelings of course. But do I hear right that there’s something you haven’t processed here, something difficult connected to it as well?

LT: Yes, of course. I constantly wonder what my life would have been like without Skam. At the same time you are so grateful for all the opportunities you’ve gotten. And I really didn’t know what I said yes to when I said yes to Skam. I remember they asked me during an interview “how would you manage being famous?”. And in that moment it’s just like “yeah whatever, that’s fine, it’ll be cool”. But then it’s difficult for most people. It’s not always easy. But there’s challenges with every job, so it’s part of life. But it’s a strange situation to be in.

TR: What’s the hardest part of having been part of Skam?

From 03:50 

Torkil Risan: It’s hard to measure that kind of thing, but Skam has to be Norway’s biggest tv show success. It was a small productio with low budget, had unknown actors and no traditional marketing. But the show would go on to break streaming records, set the agenda for public debate and take part in changing the language both in Norway and abroad. It would change the lives of many young people and entertain hordes of adults, and not only in Norway, no. There were people using their free time to translate the Norwegian episodes to a steadily growing international audience. Episodes were downloaded both illegally and, well only illegally really. But whatever. People all over the world were watching Skam. Skam has, up until this point, nine international adaptations, with Sram in Croatia as the latest one - it came out in October 2024. And all of this, that is the Norwegian original version, is created, written and directed by one person - Julie Andem. 

JA: It became very difficult after a while to film and keep the storylines secret, because we were recorded wherever we went. Especially the outdoor scenes. Like at Nissen there were suddenly hordes of fans from all over the world when we were supposed to film, so that made it a bit difficult.    

TR: And you can’t picture what it would become like when unknown 16 and 17 year olds get cast in a new show at NRK.

JA: Before these actors got their roles, at the last round of auditions, I had a talk with each one of them where I said: “I don’t know how big this show will become, it can become nothing, but it might become big. And if it becomes big and you become famous, you give away part of your freedom - the freedom to be anonymous to people. Today, when you’re on the bus, having a bad day, no one bothers you. But after you’ve become famous, people will walk up to you and want to talk to you and you can’t get away from that. When I call you next week and give you the role, if I do, I’ll ask if you’ve thought that over, and what you think of it - because you have to think that over now.” And I said that to each one of them before they got their parts. And then I think it was Josefine who said, we talked later about what I had said, that she thought “that lady is delusional. She’s making a small P3 show”. My talk went in one ear and out the other. 

JA: It’s hard to imagine things like this for people that haven’t experienced success like that, and what it demands of you afterwards. And the freedom you lose to be anonymous. It is a really difficult pressure and it can be challenging. We thought a lot about it throughout and one of the main reasons that we ended Skam when we did, was because of that pressure on the young actors.

TR: Is this an ongoing conversation with the cast? 

JA: I always think - there’s no one outside of it who understands what we experienced with Skam. So the best ones to talk to, always, about these things are the cast and the production team, who understand it and have the same feelings. 

TR: That Skam also changed the lives of those who created it, we’ve established. I am curious about how Julie Andem, who has no clue how big the show is going to become, created these characters?

JA: As I remember it, I did loads of research with the target group to understand what that group, girls in Norway aged 16, needed, what stories it needed. And I think my goal was to develop 10 characters who could fit into a universe about them. That’s where I started. And the plan was that all the characters would develop in a way that they could carry their own season. So all of them were developed as main characters. I created them before the seasons, before the storylines. 

TR: In September it’ll be ten years since Skam was released. It was released more like an event than a traditional tv show. Short clips could be dropped at any point during the week and people in the show posted on social media. It was Mari Magnus who was responsible for these digital updates. 

MM: All the characters, even if they don’t have open accounts on social media, have a bunch of email addresses. I have a box full of sim cards and burner phones. Everyone had a facebook account. They were private, but it was so that it would feel a little real if you searched “Isak Valtersen”.

TR: Someone else that became well known to the audience, was media professor Vilde Schanke Sundet. She saw the format as unique enough that she had to start doing research on Skam while it was still possible. 

VSS: I binged the entire first season one night. I remember laying in the cosy corner at home, watching on the ipad. I went to bed at 2:30 am and thought “now I understand what they are talking about”. I was interested in analysing it the same way researchers have been interested in analysing multimedia storytelling - how the story is built, how you make the different components, what it is NRK wants with this show, what it is trying to tell. And you become so drawn into the story that the ability to analyse goes a bit up and down through the different seasons. 

TR: What makes Skam different from other tv shows?

VSS: There’s both things that make it very different and things that are very similar. Because the dramatic curves are similar to other dramas we know of. It’s love triangles, good vs evil, the struggle to find yourself, all things similar to the high school/coming of age genre. And it’s well made, but that’s not what’s groundbreaking. The groundbreaking part is how the story is told. You're doing it real time, so if you’re following the blog it will appear very close. You never know when something is coming. It’s unpredictable, it drags people in. It’s based on the needs of the audience. They did loads of research when developing the show and it appears closer when the setting is a Norwegian high school than an American one. That makes it different and innovative. I think all the fans know they are fictional characters, but they feel much more real because we are not sitting down in front of the tv to watch, they are just there in your everyday life. It’s much more at the top of your mind than other things you watch and put behind you until the next episode is released. 

TR: The way Skam was created made it special. But that was not the most important part for Morten Hegseth. 

MH: The format has been given too much credit. It was a good format to post clips in that way, but the reason it was so good was that the content was amazing. It wasn’t the publishing strategy that made Skam an international phenomenon. 

(Skip to 13:26)

TR: Before they created Skam, the show creator Julie Andem and a few others made in depth interviews with young people in the target group. And the challenges Eva has in season 1, was pretty common with the group. 

JA: What is that life like? When you’re coming from secondary school, where you have a friend group and a familiar and safe environment and you’re thrown into a new universe. Everything is starting over and you have to find your place again. But she starts out as a girl who has become totally dependent on her boyfriend. She’s been thrown out of the friend group because of the choice she’s made to be together with her boyfriend, with Jonas, and that makes her dependent on him. 

TR: A successful way to independence is to become friends with a confident, stylish and cool new girl, like Noora. That, despite being good in Spanish, isn’t as crazy about russ as the other girls Eva start’s to hang out with - Jente-Chris, Vilde and Sana, who has concrete plans to fix a spot on a russebuss. And there you have our girl gang. Do you, the listener, think they are cool? Are they supposed to be cool?

JA: Socially, in school, they are not a cool group. That’s what the first storyline is about. The Pepsi Max gang are the cool, pretty girls and the other girls are not so cool. But I think they are very cool.

TR: What about the boys, aren’t they cooler?

JA: Yeah, they do at least have cooler references and masks. I’s more important to them to be cool. So they might be “cooler”.  

TR: To actress Lisa Teige, it was a bit like starting a new school - moving from Bergen and start working as an actor in Skam. How much of Eva is really in Lisa? 

LT: In the beginning I felt very different from Eva, because she went through very different things, I thought at that time. But things like finding friends in high school, I do identify with. I didn’t have that boyfriend drama, at least so early on. But looking back at it now, I would say I see myself in a lot of the things Skam talks about. I’ve also been in girl drama, had partner problems and the vulnerability in finding new friends. But back then, I felt the need to be like “No! I’m not going through the same things as Eva right now”. But really I did eventually go through those things. 

TR: And like Eva, Lisa did find some good friends on Nissens’s school yard. 

LT: I remember I noticed they were a few years older than me. I thought they were incredibly cool. That was my first thought “shit, these are cool people with experience”. It felt very cool to be part of that group. And I have so many good memories from the set with all the girls together. Especially because there’s a lot of humor surrounding the Vilde and Chris characters. They improvised many funny parts and we were laughing so hard on set. The dynamics of the group was really good. 

TR: But Bergen, where Lisa is from, and Oslo are two different cities and they have different accents. 

LT: Some things were difficult for me, as someone from Bergen. Like when I was supposed to say vors (pre-game) for the first time, which I had never said before and I don’t think I had ever been to one. And they said vors in the Oslo dialect and it was so difficult for me. I had to call mum and dad back home to ask how I was supposed to say the word. 

TR: Eva is also one of the characters who is making out the most in the show. And here both Lisa and actor Marlon Langeland, who plays Jonas, got thrown into the deep end from the start. 

LT: We had a workshop before filming, where we got to know each other and we played some games, as warm up. But to start kissing that person is something totally different. I remember dreading that quite a lot, because we were making out the first day of filming. 

LT: And that’s the kind of thing you dread a lot, but when you first get going it’s very mechanical in a way. You don’t think about what you’re really doing and it’s like “can you place your hand there”, “turn a bit that way” and “make the kiss a bit more intense, because it looks good on camera”. 

(skip to 27:19)

TR: Mari Magnus mentioned The penetrators, the coolest russebuss at Nissen. 

MM: Penetrators has a song, that’s on Spotify and I don’t know if it has been said before, it probably has, but *whispers* it’s Tarjei. 

TR: That’s rapping?

MM: Yes. 

TR: So they guy singing lines like “Penetrators cums on your face, the weather report says flooding, it’ll rain cum”, that Tarjei Sandvik Moe, who plays Isak. Tarjei went to Nissen himself during this time and managed to sneak in several references to actual things going on in the school. And to blur the lines between the fictional and reality was one of the show’s goals. To make the show as real as possible they had instagram accounts and could start chatting with each other on friday evenings. 

MM: It was a Friday evening and Julie was probably at work and we posted a photo on Jonas’ account, a Big Smalls reference, that he tagged Isak in. And we are logged into one account each, one on Isak’s, one on Jonas’. And we decided to have some fun in the comment section, hoping that maybe three people would see it, but that these three would have such a weird experience that they in school on Monday would say “You won’t believe what I say on instagram on Friday”. So Isak and Jonas drag Eva into it, but Eva is on a russebuss. And the audience is so cool, there are fans playing along and commenting things like “I saw you in the cafeteria today” “what did you get on your maths test?”. This is week two maybe, and those things we could do a bit more strategically at the start to get the engagement going.  

TR: It’s a bit slow in the beginning, but interest in Skam grows quite fast. So to chat as the characters on instagram becomes too difficult, there’s too many others taking part in the conversation. And some audience members were more engaged than others. One of them was Julian Dahl, who was very active in the comment section. Active enough to get mentioned in the show. 

TR: You’re living alongside these characters and sometimes that creates problems. Because Eva wants Jonas and Isak to go with her to the revy-party but they can’t. Why not?

Isak: We can’t

Jonas: Why not? 

Isak: The tickets to Kindred Fever. 

Jonas: I had totally forgotten that. 

TR: You’re excused if the name Kindred Fever doesn’t ring any bells. They had a mini hype right around the time when this was released and they happened to have a concert the same day as the revy-party. 

JA: The only reason we picked that concert was because it was Oslo that day. We just thought what band could they possibly be interested in that’s playing in Oslo that day?

TR: To make the right references is hard when you’re making a show. How do you know what 16 year old boys are saying, doing and would post? Sometimes Mari Magnus asked the actors to do it themselves. 

MM: In season one we sent Isak, Eva and Jonas out on the town with some phones and told them to make some content as if they were a friend group eating burgers in town. And they came home with loads of nice stuff we could post. 

(Skip to 33:40)

TR: I’m at your disposal - you can ask questions about the show and leave your thoughts and tips. There’s many easter eggs and symbolism in Skam that might be fun to dig deeper into if we come across it. There’s a messaging function on NRK radio. You could for example ask, like I asked Julie Andem, why is the show called Skam?

JA: We had loads of suggestions and we hung big sheets of paper at the auditions where they could write suggestions for the name of the show. And we got a lot of strange ones and Ingvild Marie Nyborg, who was on the team, came up with Skam and no one of us hated it, so that was the one. 

TR: Do you remember any of the ones you hated? 

JA: I remember “the 99:er gang”. 

TR: I’ve found some questions the fans are wondering by sneaking around in some of the many Skam online fan forums: Like, who in the Skam universe is Lisa Teige?