it's not gay if it's your brother!

Liam/Noel:

The Gallagher brothers have a very intense relationship that doesn't make any sense to the outside viewer unless one considers the possibility of incest. For 30 years now they have been utterly unhinged about one another in the public eye. Noel has often made incest jokes; Liam once said on-stage once "we had sex last night" referring to him and Noel. Even people writing in actual books and magazines have picked up on the vibes (some stuff that has been printed about them fully feels like it was written by tumblr incestinas except it's like. actual fucking journalists). Also there was this one time in 1996 where they kissed each other with tongue in front of 40 thousand people.

They have been described as “in love with each other” by both themselves and third parties. the lyrics “you’re my lover, i’m your brother.” they kissed with tongue at loch lomond in 1996 and have also been photographed/videoed kissing on the mouth other times. liam regularly groped noel onstage. liam’s entire twitter is just propaganda too. liam talked about impregnating noel once. noel frequently talks about how physically attractive liam is. liam claims that he’s noel’s muse

their song guess god thinks im abel has the lyrics "i could be your lover" while comparing themselves to you guessed it abel and cain. and like. a thousand more instances of them being weird about each other. also noel REALLY wanted a sister and he mentioned it quite a few times and said well liam IS basically a sister or something like that. normal behaviour

Liam literally called himself Noel's good boy on twitter, and called him god a few times after reunion. Noel said he loves make women cry and the only thing that's better is make Liam cry so he can laugh and call him a woman. They literally kissed with tongue and loch lomand is not their only kiss they have two more photos of different kissing to, they literally used the japan kiss video for reunion video. YES THEY DID THAT TF. Noel said they are head over heels in love and said it's illegal in many countries. Also Noel said Liam is like his ex-wife a few times or shit like those cunts are fucking crazy

Other people have described them as more like boyfriend/girlfriend than brothers and said they’re in love. someone on twitter asked liam “if you’re john lennon, who is noel?” and liam said “yoko ono.” another time someone said on twitter “you defo rimmed noel when you were younger” and liam replied “you jealous?"

Deeply weird about each other getting married (them not attending each other's wedding which occurred month apart and then getting divorce around the same time and they stayed at the same hotel for months), intense infamously love-hate relationship and is everyone's favorite soap opera, noel saying "on stage i just wanted him..there's only two of us that will ever get this", prominent theme of shame and crime and impossible dream in noel gallagher works, the elusive meaning of wonderwall which noel insisted is not about anyone but there's good amount of evidence that it referenced back to their childhood and their shared bedroom, liam having mental breakdown several times on twitter about noel, liam's my brother is getting a divorce playlist to which he shared with his 3 millions twitter followers, incest-baiting on main ever since the reunion, brother and lover being interchangeable for noel when writing lyrics, noel (allegedly) lying to liam that his girlfriend cheated on him in order to sabotage their relationship before oasis took off, liam hating noel's latest (ex) wife (sarah), noel writing "the owner of the star on stage" after liam's autograph and so many more insane shit

"[Liam] thinks all the songs are about him. He even thinks Wonderwall is about him." –Noel Gallagher (1997)

"It's all about me it always was and is" –Liam Gallagher (2023)

Japan kiss (kiss is at the end) loch lomand kiss

PLUS they’re back together after 14 years of estrangement! The narrative!

Cain/Abel:

the og brotherssss. invented murder.

Brothers inexorably tied together… brothers alone in a field, no witnesses but god… jealousy violence guilt sin… you get it.

A quick intro to the show - The three main characters are Dutch, Johnny and D'avin. They work as bounty hunters, known as Killjoys. 

D'avin and John were estranged for 8 years before reuniting at the beginning of the series. They were very close as children, only having each other to rely on growing up in an abusive household. Until D'avin ran away and joined the army when he was 17 and disappeared out of John’s life without a word, not to be seen or heard from again until the events of the pilot.

John harbours a lot of anger, resentment and distrust towards D'avin for abandoning him, but still doesn’t hesitate to risk his career, his friendship with Dutch and his life to save him when he hears there’s a kill warrant out on him. He steals Dutch’s ID to take D'avin’s warrant without official clearance and sneaks off to prevent him from being killed by another Killjoy. Dutch follows him and together they work to find out who put the kill warrant out on D'avin and get it lifted. Despite them going rogue, mysterious orders from high up clear John and Dutch and D'avin is recruited to their team. 

As the season goes on, the brothers work to slowly repair their relationship and rebuild trust as more is revealed about why D'avin left, why he didn’t contact Johnny and what he’s been involved in that made someone want him dead. 

On to why I ship them, headcanons etc. Aside from that I’m a simple bitch who’ll ship just about any two (or more) pretty boys (and/or girls) especially ones who have fun banter and a slightly crazy level of devotion for each other - if you look at things through a shippy lens, there’s a decent amount of fodder there to build off.

Firstly, sexuality is depicted as pretty fluid in the Killjoys verse. Though they’re both ostensibly straight, they both have occasional moments that could be read as interest in guys or at least openness to the possibility. Bisexuality seems pretty common and casually accepted in their culture, so it’s not too far-fetched to imagine that in the right circumstances either or both of them could develop an interest in a man, or at least be willing to seduce one for a mission if nothing else.

Their dynamic is complicated and layered - they have mutual feelings of admiration and almost hero worship, mixed with an oftentimes juvenile sibling rivalry. They each look up to and idolise the other in different ways. D'av envies that doing the moral thing seems to come naturally to John while he struggles with bad, impulsive choices. Johnny regards D'av as more like a father to him than their actual father.

I don’t really have any strong shippy headcanons about them; generally I’m the sort of person that likes my headcanons to be somewhat realistic and plausible, and obviously it would take a fair bit of tweaking from canon to get them to a place of developing romantic feelings for each other that isn’t totally OOC.

However, what else is fandom for? It’s mentioned that Johnny’s first kiss was with their cousin, and neither of them seem to have had many friends or been very close to anyone other than each other while growing up poor on a harsh and small, isolated planet with their abusive, alcoholic father. Perhaps in an AU where they never left Telen, it would be easier to imagine lines getting blurry.

Or perhaps pile some more trauma, loss, isolation (and booze) on them and a codependent, dysfunctional ‘turn to each other for comfort because no one else could understand’ situation could unfold. (my predicative text wanted unfold to be unfortunately, which is fair lmao) 

Then there’s the ‘not really canon but the Vibes are Vibing’ pseudo-poly thing they have with Dutch. She and John have a platonic soulmate thing where he considers her a sister, albeit with the occasional hint, particularly in a flashback to how they met, that he might harbour some romantic feelings for her deep down. John is not happy at first when Dutch and D'av become romantically interested in each other.

John: Dutch is family too. Meaning, don’t plow our sister. D'av: Remind me, was that on the Jaqobis family crest?

He claims he’s not jealous, it just feels awkward that “it’s like my brother is banging my sister” but it’s easy to interpret a bit of jealousy and possessiveness from John towards both of them.

While it never truly goes there in canon, no matter how many times they claim they’re not a throuple, they can’t shake the reputation, so there’s a lot of building blocks for shipping any combination of the three.

gif source: (99+) KILLJOYS 5.04 (2019) – @swallowedabug on Tumblr

The family dynamics only get more complicated in as the show progresses, when an enemy-turned-reluctant-ally, her girlfriend who Dutch was cloned from and D'avin find themselves the surprise parents of a rapidly aging child with enhanced abilities.

source: https://www.tumblr.com/booasaur/176364392675/killjoys-4x02?source=share

In 5x01 when their memories are altered and they believe they are strangers, they very quickly fall into their typical snarky bickering and roughhousing, with the addition of John commenting to Dutch after D'avin bests him in a fight with one stealth hit

John: Okay, yeah. I see what you see in him. That’s straight-up sexy.

Granted, he doesn’t remember D'av is his brother at this time but it’s very funny when contrasted with Dutch, who starts to remember their real lives the moment John kisses her and it feels wrong. Whereas John, for all he calls her his sister, didn’t have any problem believing the false memory that she was his wife, and immediately calls his brother 'sexy’ and 'handsome’ as soon as they meet.

There’s another scene in season 5 where Dutch and D'av are trading innuendo-laden banter while trying to escape from zipties, and despite protesting that he doesn’t want Dutch to talk about his brother while they’re pressed against each other in handcuffs, he also quips “'Johnny’ is my safeword.” Hmm, D'av, I think most people wouldn’t even joke about saying their brother’s name during sex, but you do you.

There’s probably at least a couple more examples of Totally Normal and Not At All Weird things to say to/about your brother that I’m forgetting since I’ve only watched the show once at the time it aired.

But now, on to the shippiest moment, the pièce de résistance, the holy grail of brocest ship fanservice, rivalling Supernatural for sheer 'wtf I can’t believe the writers went there’ energy.

I already low-key shipped them, both on their own and in an OT3 with Dutch, but mostly due to just being a huge slut for multi-shipping. Nothing had really inspired me to give them all that much thought as a ship, until an episode that I can only assume was the work of a dedicated incest shipper breaking into the writer’s room and replacing the script with fanfic.

In 4x02 John gets badly injured and to save his life D'av has no choice but to infect him with Green Plasma - an alien parasite that gives people enhanced healing, strength and reflexes, but also erases their emotions and turns them into sociopathic killers called Hullen. 

source: https://www.tumblr.com/librathefangirl/759257136932028416/whumpgifathon-day-19-relationships-what-is?source=share

I was already feeling spoiled by all the D'avin worried sick and tenderly cradling an injured Johnny, and then it turns out the whumpy goodness was only scratching the surface of the ship fodder.

When John wakes up we get this… interesting scene.

 A newly Hullenized Johnny first attacks D'av, throwing him against a wall and choking him, then laughs and thanks him for the 'upgrade of awesome’ with a kiss.

https://x.com/Killjoys/status/1023346674134147072

  On the lips.

Sure, closed mouth and like 1 second long, but there’s a weird intensity that doesn’t exactly give off wholesome familial vibes.

I have so many questions. 

Like, is Johnny still mostly himself and just acting a little manic with relief to be alive, exacerbated by the effect of the Green Plasma? Or is the real him already almost gone and he’s simply intentionally acting weird and creepy to unnerve D'avin?

Presumably it is meant to be one of those interpretations and not that he’s secretly always wanted to kiss his brother and the Green lowered his inhibitions enough to do it, but hey, the third option’s much more fun! ;)

But seriously, even one of the writers (or directors? someone involved with the show anyway) pretty much said in a tweet that (paraphrasing) the kiss wasn’t really necessary to the plot but they couldn’t resist throwing it in as a jokey shiptease. Unfortunately I cannot for the life of me find the damn thing because twitter’s search function is terrible, nor a screenshot anywhere because the fandom is pretty small. 

Oh, and that’s not even all. I genuinely completely forgot about this bit (I guess because I still can’t believe it actually happened) until I was trying to track down the half-remembered tweet and saw some comments reminding me that they continue the joke to an even more unhinged extreme in a later scene in the same episode.

D'avin says he’ll find a way to cure Johnny after they escape the planet, and John smirks and cocks an eyebrow in what can only be described as a lascivious manner and asks “Like you cured Sabine?”

So, important information to know - D'avin is immune to the Green and his system repels it. This ability can be temporarily passed on to others via transfer of bodily fluids, which he inadvertently discovered the previous season while having sex with Hullen spy Sabine. To put it plainly - when he came inside her it made the Green expel itself from her body.

D'avin hastily protests that’s not what he meant but Hullenized John continues to taunt him

…and despite his freakout, D'avin concedes he would fuck him to save him from being permanently Hullen if he had to.

And his choice of phrasing?

source: selecting a bagel (tumblr.com)

So. Many. Questions.

(Like were the writers on crack, for a start.)

Why, of all things Hullen Johnny could have done or said to mess with D'av and push his buttons, did he go with a kiss on the lips and sexually charged taunts, all the way up to pretty much straight-up propositioning him?

Now, he does knock him out and kidnap him a moment later, so the conversation did serve as a distraction technique, but again, there were surely less weird ways to distract him.

And D'av’s response that he would if he had to - how serious was he being? Now, John’s already drugged him at this point, which probably goes a long way towards explaining the flippant way he says it - but it’s intriguing to wonder, could he really bring himself to do it if it really was the only possible cure? And how would they deal with the aftermath?

From the extreme fanfic-y end of the scale - where Hullen Johnny is exposing real hidden desires, to the less exciting and presumably intended option - that he’s simply making the most shocking and abhorrent suggestion possible for the sadistic amusement of seeing D'av squirm - there’s so many fascinating angles to consider and explore.

Headcanon-wise, I think my interpretation lies somewhere in the middle of the scale - that there’s some genuine interest/curiosity/desire on John’s part in that moment, but it wouldn’t normally be there. With the Green rendering John unable to feel an emotional attachment to D'av as his brother and removing his capacity to have a moral objection to incest, all that’s left is the objective potential for purely physical attraction and no reason not to express it if it’s there. Given that he has commented on D'av’s objective attractiveness a few times, that explanation makes sense. And it’s hilarious to imagine them having to spend the rest of their lives in the quiet knowledge that he’d totally be down to bang if they weren’t brothers and they both know it lol.

I’ve reminded myself of why I’m sad they’re such a small/rare pairing, and already halfway convinced myself to start work on contributing the 9th fic to their pairing tag on Ao3, so I’ll end it here. What else could top a canon scene of brothers actually pondering the question of what they’d do in a Fuck or Die scenario (well, a Fuck or Stay an Alien Slime-Controlled Emotionless Killer Forever scenario) and coming down on the side of 'welp, ya gotta do what ya gotta do’.

Actually, I’ll chuck in one more gif that does a great job of summing them up - being the most stereotypical 'still have the mentality of 12 year olds when it comes to annoying each other’ brothers ever, with an added dash of the occasional bit of slightly weird, almost flirt-adjacent dialogue.

source: dailykilljoys

Thanks for reading my ramble about two of my fave dumb boys, hope you enjoyed!

  Ok, one last thought - I’m going c r a z y trying to figure out what exactly he was even supposed to have meant by the exact word choice of “I’d wreck you.” After seeing it again, I’m wondering if he was just saying with conviction that he’d do it without question (and do it thoroughly!) if he couldn’t find any other way.

Because my first reaction was to interpret it as him suggesting he wouldn’t do it, and was warning him to drop the subject, and he meant 'wreck’ in a dumb, macho, bragging way like 'Oh, you think you could handle me but there’s no way you could take it, so good thing this is only hypothetical because my dick’s so big and/or I’m such a wild animal in the sack, I’d hurt you.’

Or could it have even been a dumb, macho bragging thing in the other direction, like 'I’d fuck you so good it’d blow your mind how much you’d love it and I’d ruin you for sex with anyone else’?

Or was it just the knockout gas making him delirious? A bit of all of the above? 

Who knows.

Who. Knows.

and then there's an awkward moment / fake-out where Mishka may or may not have been aiming for a kiss. dad turns that down real fast though, uncomfortable. Mishka fears this may have just caused a permanent rift between them, that they can never be affectionate again, and begs him to forget the whole thing.

Gustav can tell that Mishka's gonna be agonizing over this (oh, Gus is too. but doesn't want to double the panic here*) and tells his son to not hurt himself. (Mishka tends to pull at his hair and scratch his skin up to release emotion)

*main things on Gustav's mind: since he's a teacher, he would not only get fired, but hunted for sport if he was actually in an illicit relationship with his son, so he really doesn't want to even entertain the idea. especially since he already feels like he's on thin ice at his workplace - he's good at his job, but it's an open secret that he's "gay" (he's not even gay, he's bi!!)

they retreat to their rooms to turn in for the night. Mishka writes to his bestie Kaito who's the only one he talks to about his feelings for his dad (strangers on the internet and people who took his incest vagueposting as a joke don't count haha).

Gus looks to the internet for any advice on this situation he never expected to be in as a father. "wtf do I do when my own flesh and blood, my own son, half my age, is in love with me, romantically? and maybe sexually?? how do I turn him down without hurting his feelings" he somehow phrases it in such a way that he mostly gets porn results, which is the opposite of what he's looking for! XD it's a very popular porn category and that makes him feel even worse.

here's another WIP I'm trying to work on about this scene. the confession, plus a moment when Gus remembers fearing homophobia in his teen years, but confessing to a classmate regardless (he's bi but most people assume he's either gay or straight)... and immediately shuts it down, thinking to himself "wait that's not even remotely the same thing!! s-some things are societally unacceptable with good reason!"

I'm just trying to work out the dialogue more, to better show Gustav's confusion, apprehension, empathy and an attempt at a gentle rejection.

afterward, they try to go on as normal but now that it's out there, Mishka gets bolder with his affection. and gets reprimanded. occasionally. Gustav's body welcomes the touch, but Gus himself is not happy with this for a multitude of reasons!!!! it's ok, he gets over his incest aversion. he may have felt some sort of way about Mishka's scruffy facial hair and deeper voice when he saw him again for the first time in half a year, but chalked it up to aesthetic appreciation? "what the hell, my son's grown so much... he's so cute... uh, objectively."

they got some mutual desperation and loneliness going on, they're perfect for each other.

I like this fragile and uncertain time in their life and relationship the most so I draw it the most. guilty and hesitant indulgence in forbidden fruit... typical will-they-wont-they situation. but it's like they-probably-shouldnt. but they will.