im just here

I really don’t care that she’s race swapped and whatever, that has nothing to do with this essay.

What we will talk about is how she’s an asshole, and doesn’t really deserved praise or recognition for her actions.

She fights crime while pregnant, presumably keeping the crime fighting a secret from her husband, which is a red flag on its own. She’d rather risk her own baby’s safety and wellbeing, just to be a superhero, not really caring of its health. You guys say that the baby is resilient, when literally Spider People take major damage and wince throughout the films. If people really praise her and call her “badass” and “supercool” for this selfish action, but criticize Peter B. for taking Mayday into danger when, MIND YOU, he chooses to stay away from danger, while Jess puts herself out in the danger, its saying something.

She’s also an asshole character to everyone but Miguel. A complete bitch towards Miles, asshole to Hobie, the worst mentor Gwen could ever ask for and she definitely regrets looking up to Jess, sassing Ben as if Miguel isn’t anymore broodier, sarcastically ignoring the Hijabi spider woman’s joke but gleefully making jokes with Miguel, and was down for Jeff’s death for protecting the canon.. And the kicker is that she knows that Miguel is wrong for what he does, but she’s too afraid to say anything against him. But she’s quick as fuck to yell or shut Gwen down for making mistakes.

Reminder that at the end of the film where Miguel tries to get Miles from the Go Home Machine, he rips through space and time and that almost caused all of them to die, thanks to the science of the frabic of reality being distributed. And she still stayed by that man’s side, when he almost killed everyone in that room.

And there are those who say she’s better than Miguel and Peter B. when WRONG! If anything, she’s just as bad as Miguel. She was also down for people to die for the canon, she showed no empathy or sympathy for Miles and hated him as well, and treated everyone there like soldiers with no respect or empathy whatsoever. Not to mention, she’s not afraid to get physical. Miles spider sense went off when she attacked him, meaning that she posed a threat. She meant to do harm to him. And her dumb fans will either glaze that or ignore that, but justify her behavior with Gwen.

And hot take, every Jess Drew fan that criticizes the fuck out of Gwen, but make her and Miguel look innocent, are definitely just Gwen haters in disguise because they don’t like her being white or for “betraying” Miles. And it’s funny because their fav treated Miles like absolute dog shit, and is a 30+ pregnant woman, a grown adult, treating 15-16 year olds like crap just because she can.

And I don’t if it’s just me, but she’s kind of anti-black. Every black character she was just not nice, welcoming, or even an ally too. Hated Miles, was against Hobie, was down for Jeff to die, and ignored Margo.

Even a little anti-feminist, seeing her relationship with Gwen shift. An absolute bitch of a mentor, telling Gwen to shut up when Gwen thanks her (Jess’ big ego mind you) but allow Miguel to rant to her whenever they’re alone probably.

Well other than the fact that as of now she’s not a villain, she’s an antagonist(please learn the difference 20+ something yr olds)

I very much do enjoy my villains of color. Y’all are just very weird with them is the thing

Jessica did a lot of things that would make me say she’s the antagonist, but I promise you, her not being everyone’s mother is not one of them

She was supposed to risk the world on the hopes of a child she don't even know, I guess. Lol. That lady is pregnant and working. Go sit down somewhere.

Is it arguable that she may be on the wrong side? Sure. OP didn't say, "Jessica did nothing wrong." They said that the hate she gets doesn't fit the things she did in the movie, and they're right. And where was the Gwen and Miles "hate?" Where is it? In this post, where on Earth is this alleged annoying hate? The fact that you saw a post saying that motherfuckers are trippin' about their persecuted of Jessica and equated that somehow to Miles hate was already silly, but adding Gwen in here was even more goofy.

"She's not even looking out for her own kid" and yet you say nothing about Peter bringing along his own baby, doing flips and shit in a chase sequence that involves climbing onto high places, explosions, and t-rexes

This is what I'm talking about, Black women are never treated with equal standards and logic in these stories as compared to everyone else. Even if she doesn't mother other Black kids, come here, (whispers) she's literally not obligated to

This is actually a problem yall also had with Annie from Sinners. Yall saw this darkskinned, fat Black woman; and while she was a mother, she was not motherly for everyone. She was just a young, beautiful, beloved woman who liked to have her fun, was spiritual, and get down nasty style ✨️

And that freaked a lot of you guys out. That straight-up scared yall even

“Black women characters are never treated with equal logic” when the black woman treated only Miguel with equal treatment, and every else like scum. She wasn’t obligated to defend him, but she still did. Nobody said that was Gwen’s mother, or Miles’ father. If a fucking cowboy with a horse that later shot at Miles gave him some respect, so could she. But she chose not to.

"At least Peter admits he's not the greatest dad" admitting you put your baby in danger all while continue in doing so, as well as betraying Miles, like Gwen, isn't the take you think it is

Well other than the fact that as of now she’s not a villain, she’s an antagonist(please learn the difference 20+ something yr olds)

I very much do enjoy my villains of color. Y’all are just very weird with them is the thing

Jessica did a lot of things that would make me say she’s the antagonist, but I promise you, her not being everyone’s mother is not one of them

She was supposed to risk the world on the hopes of a child she don't even know, I guess. Lol. That lady is pregnant and working. Go sit down somewhere.

Is it arguable that she may be on the wrong side? Sure. OP didn't say, "Jessica did nothing wrong." They said that the hate she gets doesn't fit the things she did in the movie, and they're right. And where was the Gwen and Miles "hate?" Where is it? In this post, where on Earth is this alleged annoying hate? The fact that you saw a post saying that motherfuckers are trippin' about their persecuted of Jessica and equated that somehow to Miles hate was already silly, but adding Gwen in here was even more goofy.

"She's not even looking out for her own kid" and yet you say nothing about Peter bringing along his own baby, doing flips and shit in a chase sequence that involves climbing onto high places, explosions, and t-rexes

This is what I'm talking about, Black women are never treated with equal standards and logic in these stories as compared to everyone else. Even if she doesn't mother other Black kids, come here, (whispers) she's literally not obligated to

This is actually a problem yall also had with Annie from Sinners. Yall saw this darkskinned, fat Black woman; and while she was a mother, she was not motherly for everyone. She was just a young, beautiful, beloved woman who liked to have her fun, was spiritual, and get down nasty style ✨️

And that freaked a lot of you guys out. That straight-up scared yall even

Well other than the fact that as of now she’s not a villain, she’s an antagonist(please learn the difference 20+ something yr olds)

I very much do enjoy my villains of color. Y’all are just very weird with them is the thing

Jessica did a lot of things that would make me say she’s the antagonist, but I promise you, her not being everyone’s mother is not one of them

She was supposed to risk the world on the hopes of a child she don't even know, I guess. Lol. That lady is pregnant and working. Go sit down somewhere.

Is it arguable that she may be on the wrong side? Sure. OP didn't say, "Jessica did nothing wrong." They said that the hate she gets doesn't fit the things she did in the movie, and they're right. And where was the Gwen and Miles "hate?" Where is it? In this post, where on Earth is this alleged annoying hate? The fact that you saw a post saying that motherfuckers are trippin' about their persecuted of Jessica and equated that somehow to Miles hate was already silly, but adding Gwen in here was even more goofy.

"She's not even looking out for her own kid" and yet you say nothing about Peter bringing along his own baby, doing flips and shit in a chase sequence that involves climbing onto high places, explosions, and t-rexes

This is what I'm talking about, Black women are never treated with equal standards and logic in these stories as compared to everyone else. Even if she doesn't mother other Black kids, come here, (whispers) she's literally not obligated to

This is actually a problem yall also had with Annie from Sinners. Yall saw this darkskinned, fat Black woman; and while she was a mother, she was not motherly for everyone. She was just a young, beautiful, beloved woman who liked to have her fun, was spiritual, and get down nasty style ✨️

And that freaked a lot of you guys out. That straight-up scared yall even

“Black women characters are never treated with equal logic” when the black woman treated only Miguel with equal treatment, and every else like scum. She wasn’t obligated to defend him, but she still did. Nobody said that was Gwen’s mother, or Miles’ father. If a fucking cowboy with a horse that later shot at Miles gave him some respect, so could she. But she chose not to.

"At least Peter admits he's not the greatest dad" admitting you put your baby in danger all while continue in doing so, as well as betraying Miles, like Gwen, isn't the take you think it is

Well other than the fact that as of now she’s not a villain, she’s an antagonist(please learn the difference 20+ something yr olds)

I very much do enjoy my villains of color. Y’all are just very weird with them is the thing

Jessica did a lot of things that would make me say she’s the antagonist, but I promise you, her not being everyone’s mother is not one of them

She was supposed to risk the world on the hopes of a child she don't even know, I guess. Lol. That lady is pregnant and working. Go sit down somewhere.

Is it arguable that she may be on the wrong side? Sure. OP didn't say, "Jessica did nothing wrong." They said that the hate she gets doesn't fit the things she did in the movie, and they're right. And where was the Gwen and Miles "hate?" Where is it? In this post, where on Earth is this alleged annoying hate? The fact that you saw a post saying that motherfuckers are trippin' about their persecuted of Jessica and equated that somehow to Miles hate was already silly, but adding Gwen in here was even more goofy.

Well other than the fact that as of now she’s not a villain, she’s an antagonist(please learn the difference 20+ something yr olds)

I very much do enjoy my villains of color. Y’all are just very weird with them is the thing

Jessica did a lot of things that would make me say she’s the antagonist, but I promise you, her not being everyone’s mother is not one of them

She was supposed to risk the world on the hopes of a child she don't even know, I guess. Lol. That lady is pregnant and working. Go sit down somewhere.

Is it arguable that she may be on the wrong side? Sure. OP didn't say, "Jessica did nothing wrong." They said that the hate she gets doesn't fit the things she did in the movie, and they're right. And where was the Gwen and Miles "hate?" Where is it? In this post, where on Earth is this alleged annoying hate? The fact that you saw a post saying that motherfuckers are trippin' about their persecuted of Jessica and equated that somehow to Miles hate was already silly, but adding Gwen in here was even more goofy.

"She's not even looking out for her own kid" and yet you say nothing about Peter bringing along his own baby, doing flips and shit in a chase sequence that involves climbing onto high places, explosions, and t-rexes

This is what I'm talking about, Black women are never treated with equal standards and logic in these stories as compared to everyone else. Even if she doesn't mother other Black kids, come here, (whispers) she's literally not obligated to

This is actually a problem yall also had with Annie from Sinners. Yall saw this darkskinned, fat Black woman; and while she was a mother, she was not motherly for everyone. She was just a young, beautiful, beloved woman who liked to have her fun, was spiritual, and get down nasty style ✨️

And that freaked a lot of you guys out. That straight-up scared yall even

“Black women characters are never treated with equal logic” when the black woman treated only Miguel with equal treatment, and every else like scum. She wasn’t obligated to defend him, but she still did. Nobody said that was Gwen’s mother, or Miles’ father. If a fucking cowboy with a horse that later shot at Miles gave him some respect, so could she. But she chose not to.

Well other than the fact that as of now she’s not a villain, she’s an antagonist(please learn the difference 20+ something yr olds)

I very much do enjoy my villains of color. Y’all are just very weird with them is the thing

Jessica did a lot of things that would make me say she’s the antagonist, but I promise you, her not being everyone’s mother is not one of them

She was supposed to risk the world on the hopes of a child she don't even know, I guess. Lol. That lady is pregnant and working. Go sit down somewhere.

Is it arguable that she may be on the wrong side? Sure. OP didn't say, "Jessica did nothing wrong." They said that the hate she gets doesn't fit the things she did in the movie, and they're right. And where was the Gwen and Miles "hate?" Where is it? In this post, where on Earth is this alleged annoying hate? The fact that you saw a post saying that motherfuckers are trippin' about their persecuted of Jessica and equated that somehow to Miles hate was already silly, but adding Gwen in here was even more goofy.

Because Jessica allowed Gwen to make mistakes. She guided her, but she wasn't going to hold her hand. She told her what she needed to do, she'd check in on her, but she trusted Gwen to be honest. She's so much more hands off of Gwen because she deadass be treating her like an adult which is funny cause thats what black moms be doing

Jessica absolutely seems like the type to be like 'you asked for this so i'm not gonna treat you any different because i trust you handle ur shit' - that's why she doesn't go around calling Gwen 'kid' like Peter does.

Gwen isn't her little friend Gwen is Jessica's trainee. She treating her like that because Miguel isn't gonna treat her like a friend either.

Eventually Gwen's not gonna answer to Jessica - she's gonna answer to Miguel and Gwen had to be ready for that because if you're not ready for Jessica's 'attitude' and leadership then you're NOT ready Miguel's genuine anger and irritation she's deadass prepping Gwen to work for Miguel thats her job fjkgksfdgh

She calls herself the 'surly' neighborhood Spider-Woman! She wants a good world for her kid and goes out of her way to go to the universes' best hospital in childcare! Jessica having a child while still being a superhero was such a big thing! She physically fights off hoards of bad guys after giving birth! She's badass as fuck!! NOT TO MENTION! That Jessica's baby in comic is from a sperm donor, and that Jessica has NO desire to learn the donor. She hates that people assume she must have slept with someone to 'end up' with a kid!! But doesn't let that force her to divulge her personal business!

Jessica Drew deserves so many readers!! Especially the comics that are written and illustrated by women!!!

I'm so mad right now. There's so many things that piss me off with Peter B. I keep thinking about all the mess he keeps pulling throughout the first and the second movie. The fact that he betrayed Miles not once but twice BUT THREE TIMES (typing Miles up in ITSV, not telling him about the Spider Society or that he was an anomaly, CALLING HQ ON HIM BECAUSE HE WANTED TO SAVE HIS FATHER. Technically that's 4 but moving on.)

He refuses to acknowledge Miles as a fellow spider(which is probably why he didn't feel bad about finding Miles was an anomaly now he has a reason to not take Miles seriously.) And he keeps trying to insert himself into a mentor role when he's yet to do a whole lot of mentoring. What also throws me here is how he had the audacity to say the trauma builds character while being a mentor to help guide Miles into becoming Spiderman so Miles' could avoid the mistakes that Peter made.

I WILL NEVER BE OVER THAT CHAIR SCENE IN ITSV. How is it you as a grown man. A grown white man no less took a black teenage boy who you viewed as so much of a liability that you had to tie him up. And I know multiple people have talked about everything that's wrong with this scene but there's still something so haunting about watching him just nonchalantly be tied up kicking and screaming about how he wants to be let go that bothers me so much. And I find it hard to believe that this was just a scene we're supposed to just move on from. Did they do this on purpose? Was this supposed to showcase something about Peter's character that I'm not picking up on? Because I find it so hard to believe that the writers who made sure to explicitly show how Gwen's Peter is Christian because he later turns into a lizard wouldn't understand the implications of this scene.

I also don't think he's a strategic as he thinks he is. What do you think was going to happen when you forcefully tied this boy to a chair? You thought he was going to sit still? Also would you think the boy who's trying to save his father was going to do? Actually listen to your words? Sit back and be like, oh you're right I should just let my father die. (This is me going off my reasoning that he didn't plan out that one scene in ATSV. I think that he thought that because he's Miles' "mentor" he could get through to him in a way others can't. Which pretentious much?) His actions do more harm than good and it just works out for him somehow. (For instance Miles saving them in ITSV because he came late.)

These are my thoughts do with this what you will. All the stars decided to align today ig because I haven't been able to come up with coherent thoughts like this in a minute.

(I really need to rewatch itsv. So if there's anything here that I'm wrong about regarding itsv it's been like 5 years since I've seen it.)

I GET THISS SOOO HARD (I waited until I had coffee to answer this lol)

BUT YESSSSS Because like I can understanding giving Peter the benefit of the doubt, it makes plausible sense for a movie to have a certain amount of wiggle room plot wise.

But with writers who clearly understood punk enough to accurately show it in Hobie's arc, repeatedly put in the work to respect Cockney and Puerto Rican culture, who wrote every one of Hobie's lines with PERCISION - would just overlook the glaring hole in their story that is Peter.

Because we as a viewer are continually told we SHOULD look up to him and we SHOULD trust him - but in doing so they accidentally make him the exact opposite. Like.. It doesn't make sense to me.

The Focus on Jess & The Absence of Peter:

aka GODDAMN I hate Peter B. Parker [yet another rant about 'bad' writing, plotholes, and Peter not showing up for Miles or Gwen.

For example,

Jess is Gwen's mentor, and we see her mentor style is extremely different from Peter's and that's suppose to be a contrasting dynamic between them and the relationship between Miles and Peter. Okay, makes sense.

But by NOT having Peter be Gwen's mentor, the writers are implying that he didn't step up as an emotional mentor when all this given - HE SHOULD. Because he's the only adult that she knows, and she a freshly homeless teen who needs to be around people she trusts, rather than working at a society with an auditorium of adults.

But by trying to show off how much we should judge Jess, the writers have inadvertently given us a Peter who just..didn't take responsibility. That's what they're implying - that Hobie and Jess were the ones who came to get aid. And we're suppose to look the other way. I... can't do that, sir.

"Look at how mean Jess is, why not blame her-" Jess is doing her job. Where's the adult she actually knows and trusts. Can we get some dialogue about what he did for her? Or did he just do nothing?

Did they just forget to include that, or did Peter just forget to help?

For me, that's two points in the bucket. Not housing Gwen, and not being her mentor. He could've done one, the other or both.

But because he didn't, we're left asking "What WAS he doing in the Society?"

Missions, I assume. Cause he wasn't mentoring her, so he must have been off putting in legit work for Miguel, I assume.

If we're looking at the characters as full-rounded - which I would hope they are considering the depth of Gwen, Miles and Hobie, it's not a large jump to ask 'How involved was Peter in Gwen's time at the Society? Why is he not her mentor, or why is she not living with him?"

Gwen..should be staying with him. If you're an adult who knows a teen and they become homeless, and it is within your means - yeah, I do think it's a moral obligation to open your home to them, at least temporarily. If you care about them. But that aside, let's extend the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Gwen didn't want to see him.

But then the ratting Miles out thing. This, I can't get around-

Some may say that it was simply for plot development and that Lyla spoke suddenly as a mistake on her part.

And I gotta call bullshit.

Let’s address the elephant in the room, because she is a black woman who is NOT a mammy character, people criticize her harsher. Jess was MORE than Miguel’s “lackey”. She had her own thoughts and opinions. She definitely had her own personality and feelings about the entire situation. She lowkey stalled time to give Gwen chances to fix her mistakes.

If Jess was as cold as Miguel and such a “bitch”, she would’ve left Gwen the first time. Let’s not forget that Miguel was fully about to leave Gwen with her own father holding her at gunpoint, JESS vouched to bring Gwen under her name. Jess put her OWN position at risk to help Gwen and it required that she do her job accordingly. Jess made the boundary VERY clear, she is NOT Gwen’s mother. She is NOT her friend. I seen people argue that “Jess’ maternal instincts” should’ve kicked in to protect Gwen” but fully ignoring that Jess HAS A FAMILY! Jess is PREGNANT with her OWN child. Her instincts DID kick in and she chose her dimension with her family in it!

Jess was stuck in a rock and a hard place. She obviously wanted to help Gwen (considering she brought her in at the cost of her own position) but UNFORTUNATELY, GWEN messed up. Gwen saw Miles and that ultimately led to Spot escaping. You can love these characters and acknowledge that every character had their OWN thoughts and motivations that led to fuck ups. It’s not right to try to make Jess sound worse than the man who fuckin replaced his dead self out of grief, was about to leave a teen at gunpoint, and had an entire society of people chase a teenager who wanted to save his dad.

Don’t get me started on the “she’s fighting crime while pregnant argument” because we can accept superpowered people but NOT the possibility that their bodies are more resilient. NOT TO MENTION THAT PETER B HAS A WHOLE BABY ON MISSIONS???? Like, no one is calling him a bad father so what’s different with Jess? Miguel was mean as fuck to Miles upon meeting but Jess doing her JOB is considered being “mean”.

Then the “I didn’t see her enough to connect with her” is fair until everyone can somehow create entire {TERRIBLE} mischaracterizations of Hobie, Pav, and Peni who (arguably) had just about the same amount of screentime. She also shares traits with every other spider person with being snarky and quick-witted while being completely grounded. She’s literally one of the spider people that Miguel fully trusts but somehow the fandom erases her and goes “He loves Peter B and Lego Spidey🤪🤪”

Like, it’s crazy how people find it so easy to erase Jess and Margo (Spiderbyte) in fanworks for things they easily dismiss from other characters and it’s feelin like misogynoir. Like, Margo and Hobie served the same purpose with deciding to go against Miguel for Miles, yet only Hobie and Gwen gets that credit.

AND THEN THE MANY EXCUSES WHEN IT COMES TO SHIPPING! People keep hating on Jess/Miguel because she’s “obviously pregnant and married” but go right around and ship Miguel with Peter B. Same with Margo/Miles because it’s a bunch of “Miles and Gwen are obviously endgame” ANDDDD???? Since when did every ship HAVE TO be canon in order to be a ship? It’s especially crazy because I BARELY EVER see those comments on Miles/(Peni, Pav, or Hobie) or have no problem with having all the boys huddled around Gwen. The double standard is glaringly obvious.

In conclusion, some of you mfs dont deserve ATSV.

Well other than the fact that as of now she’s not a villain, she’s an antagonist(please learn the difference 20+ something yr olds)

I very much do enjoy my villains of color. Y’all are just very weird with them is the thing

Jessica did a lot of things that would make me say she’s the antagonist, but I promise you, her not being everyone’s mother is not one of them

She was supposed to risk the world on the hopes of a child she don't even know, I guess. Lol. That lady is pregnant and working. Go sit down somewhere.

Because when Gwen was actively forced into homelessness in front of him, he literally didn't help at all. And then it gets framed on JESS.

Gwen asks for help. And Peter says this:

Jess asks him to stop talking.

And from this moment forward, Peter makes no effort whatsoever to help Gwen.

Mind you. This is AFTER Miles' escape. After the whole 'shocked Peter' gif. Peter knows Miguel is willing to get violent.

But that line is his only attempt to help.

Even as he watches Gwen be fully restrained and physically forced into the machine. He stands there and watches.

He doesn't try to web her. He doesn't try to stop the machine or talk to Miguel. He stands there in silence. Watching Gwen get sent home to a universe he knows she is homeless in.

And the movie just lets him. Despite the fact he's known Gwen longer than anybody in this room.

Instead, Jess is the only mentor at fault. We're told to blame her.

jinu makes you feel good, almost too good.