i find it deeply ironic how in-fandom u see countless jokes of lovro being a diva, receiving princess treatment, looking visibly gay etc. and then the same audience asks What exactly lovro is afraid of.
oh my god this is exactly, spot ON what i had in mind while the space was going on about lovro being the most alt and stereotypically queer-presenting of other isaks, and within sram
dont mind me rehashing points that have been surely exhausted before- not an original thought to come- lovro is The quote unquote Blue Hair With Pronouns guy. his story was not told independent of his appearance. like of course there's always the even character who has the 'safety net' of being straight-passing whereas the isak character typically doesn't feel like they have that privilege, but lovro in particular begins the season nowhere near integrated into the straight act. even when he tries he doesn't do it very well. unlike the other isaks who have to mop away a haze of heteronormativity before they can peer through the glass into who they really are lovro has to do that WHILE being acutely aware that his appearance singles him out. in an environment so restrictive too.
and you're right, just like when Ivan was posting fourth wall breaks on instagram the Fandom is put into two pairs of shoes- Lovro's, and the world around him's! we were following the exact sentiments of the voices in his head that he is Different. the world will Never see him equally to others. he Cannot experience the world in the same way as his peers do. that realization- be it as a queer person, as a person of colour, as a woman- that the way you interact with society was determined for you by merit of preconceived notions of the group to which you belong, shakes the ground out from beneath you. you realize to some people you are not an individual. that is the core of all the isak characters' homophobia but Particularly with lovro.
a tiny appendix- it's 100% okay to joke around and make headcanons about characters and write indulgent fun fanfiction about them because that's what fandom is for- trying to eliminate that dichotomy is like you willingly signing up to help Sisyphus roll that boulder up a hill. but when we're talking about the shame show about shame about how the character experiences being gay, how the world views that character... and when the fandom almost BECOMES the world... hmmmm
i'm like 99.99999% sure there's been a wonderfully insightful post made about literally all of this somewhere out there but ok
adding to the reblog train here: when lovro is calling ivan during the strah clip @magickl0ve said, and i quote, “im very sorry for him but this is also how every woman feels outside after 9:00pm”. its dević for a reason isnt it
oh isn't that the truth. if i had a nickel for every time the effects of homophobia & the effects of misogyny formed a venn diagram with an absurdly large intersection
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i find it deeply ironic how in-fandom u see countless jokes of lovro being a diva, receiving princess treatment, looking visibly gay etc. and then the same audience asks What exactly lovro is afraid of.
oh my god this is exactly, spot ON what i had in mind while the space was going on about lovro being the most alt and stereotypically queer-presenting of other isaks, and within sram
dont mind me rehashing points that have been surely exhausted before- not an original thought to come- lovro is The quote unquote Blue Hair With Pronouns guy. his story was not told independent of his appearance. like of course there's always the even character who has the 'safety net' of being straight-passing whereas the isak character typically doesn't feel like they have that privilege, but lovro in particular begins the season nowhere near integrated into the straight act. even when he tries he doesn't do it very well. unlike the other isaks who have to mop away a haze of heteronormativity before they can peer through the glass into who they really are lovro has to do that WHILE being acutely aware that his appearance singles him out. in an environment so restrictive too.
and you're right, just like when Ivan was posting fourth wall breaks on instagram the Fandom is put into two pairs of shoes- Lovro's, and the world around him's! we were following the exact sentiments of the voices in his head that he is Different. the world will Never see him equally to others. he Cannot experience the world in the same way as his peers do. that realization- be it as a queer person, as a person of colour, as a woman- that the way you interact with society was determined for you by merit of preconceived notions of the group to which you belong, shakes the ground out from beneath you. you realize to some people you are not an individual. that is the core of all the isak characters' homophobia but Particularly with lovro.
a tiny appendix- it's 100% okay to joke around and make headcanons about characters and write indulgent fun fanfiction about them because that's what fandom is for- trying to eliminate that dichotomy is like you willingly signing up to help Sisyphus roll that boulder up a hill. but when we're talking about the shame show about shame about how the character experiences being gay, how the world views that character... and when the fandom almost BECOMES the world... hmmmm
i'm like 99.99999% sure there's been a wonderfully insightful post made about literally all of this somewhere out there but ok
a lot of people love to tout that "sram is not above criticism" and i agree! problem is, 95% of complaints that follow that statement (especially since yesterday) boil down to this evergreen post
don't mind if i slot in my two hundred cents, then
it's kind of hard to pick the most egregious opinion from the pile, but personal attacks aside, i'm kind of floored by the self-righteous haterism. "i always knew the show was going downhill, ever since that [arbitrarily chosen, entirely logical past plot point]"; its like a child who calls their mom hitler bc she refused to buy a toy. grow up man. you're ragebaiting yourself. you're zealmaxxing.
also baffled by all the conspiracies, especially from people outside of slavic / ex-soviet / ex-warsaw pact countries. the idea that producers are distraught by a bunch of bigots who turn their tvs off in protest every saturday is just silly. this is their job, they know the risks. bruno said, verbatim, that this season is about a guy coming to terms with his sexuality. whatever changes the team made to avoid hot water with HRT, this debate has zero practical use unless bruno's pa starts leaking internal documentation or some shit. its the same line of thinking as homophobic-fran-reddit-gate. what if the moon was made of cheese? idk, we'd eat it or something!
back to the start. me me me
the word remake reallyyyyy conditions a lot of people to think of a step-by-step youtube tutorial with little place for deviation. its like fluff fanfiction or booktok romance (sorry): same story told over and over with insignificant changes for different tastes. god knows i enjoy it in my leisure time, but does that really work for something that strives to relate and humanize? should sram have nothing to say for itself simply because its a "remake"? it's very patronizing of me to say this, but if you're so desperate for eye candy it makes you forfeit the narrative substance, is netflix catalogue not better? why not stare at gifsets from emerald fennell's films? why disrespect a story that's clearly trying to tell something new?
does it not make sense that we're getting a very subdued, character-centric version of events? lovro and ivan's entire story has been a push-and-pull since, like, that attic scene in ep. 2 and the benches of doom in ep. 3, has it not? why are we here, post-ep. 8, with an entirely different tone, presentation and characterization, and people are expecting our heroes to end up in the exact same situation as the original? [in julliane moore's baffled voice] how's that gonna work?
the argument i see levied against all the angst usually comes with a snarky comment à la "you know queer people are allowed to be happy" or a self-centered search for "queer joy", and it makes me hum like a microwave. when people experience distress and pain over lovro and ivan's rocky moments, that's a not a bad thing! all the bullshit about how they deserve better is still a sign that people genuinely fucking root for them! they care! they are invested!
rather, the problem is that people can't fix the situation, so they beg for a deus ex machina to absorb all the plot threads like chatgpt and spit out a quick fix. they lash out at every stressor present in the series; it's soooo lovro getting into bar fights over his miserable crush, its sooo jakov threatening to throw hands over his friend getting insulted. this "queer joy" that people eulogize has nothing to do with lovro, who's got a supportive bestie and a loving mom. it's about the viewer who's mourning their lack of control and can only watch the situation deteriorate. to quote a classic, you mad! you mad!
if you've read this far, then i guess you're ready for the hot take: people who complain about the lack of chemistry / physical affection either don't want to see or feel disturbed by the show's portrayal of mental illness. especially with ivan. psychophobia or not, it's undeniable that ivan's recent behavior has been hugely altered by his manic state. he isn't possessed by a demon, but he probably feels like killing god right now; he's getting in danger with strangers, he's risking jail time for goddamn public indecency! i've seen people with bd say that this is a pretty accurate representation of what could happen, so imagine how mad it makes me to see people meander about moving along with the plot! the hell do you mean buddy??? this is the plot!
it's shallow to treat mental illness as a checkbox to tick off ("ja ja very bipolar fuck now run later"), a one-time event that writers should lampshade but deprive of longevity. think back to lovro and ema’s entire arc, which showed how his internalized homophobia caused collateral damage to her, and her supposedly excessive involvement was criticized too! do you see how sram has the decency and the patience to show that mental health, homophobia and family dynamics/history are not three independent entities, but a messy bundle that creates a mess bigger than the sum of its parts? its fine if the lack of infinite jestermaxxing feels heart-wrenching in the moment, but trying to portray this as disingenuous appeasement for homophobes bc it didn't satisfy your hunger for boykissing? you're not serious. hitler mom. cmon
additionally, i feel like the meta kind of poisoned people's perception of the characters. similar to all the plot-point collectors, the viewer knows about ivan's bd and gets to assemble the picture puzzle while lovro doesn't know SHIIIIIIT. he is neither a paragon of intelligence (said kindly) nor a psych student with a knack for fostering dialogue (said vaguely derogatorily). he's a deeply depressed 18 y.o. stoner in a precarious environment prioritizing his own safety while his 90%-boyfriend's demeanor seemingly flips overnight. its not like he's got a vaccine against backsliding or worsening insecurities. you'd think the viewers would empathize with his lack of control but uhhhhhhh
(he is also a man, in case you haven't noticed. compare how the girl squad shows support to each other vs how the boy squad does it, and you can see how a supportive environment can still falter with emotional repair)
as much as i find fran-esque guys attractive, if he started talking about marrying me in a public sauna three days after i got hate crime threats, its me who would've been running through the streets of zagreb. relaying his boundaries to a guy who seems unable to hear him at the moment? lovro is stronger than me. me me me
idk man. i get the apprehension about queer rep in less-than-friendly countries, but expecting lovro and ivan's story to be some zero-sum game where every negative moment demands its positive counterpart is a very naive way to see storytelling and relationships. dates and soft launch ig pics are so high school, real relationships take effort and compromise. id rather these two work out their comms first and get into an honest relationship that accommodates their preferences and stabilizes their struggles. quick resolutions are wishful thinking, and what the fuck was nora and roko's s2 finale if not a cautionary tale? im sure ivan and lovro will find each other when the time is right
okay seeing a lot of opinions so my thoughts on filip:
seeing it in simple terms of filip is a "bad person" is just not giving the writing credit. first off i think we can all agree that depicting such a negative reaction from a friend is important. yes it fucking sucks to go through that, but to lovro it can't be as simple as just never interacting with him again. they're still in school together, they were in a friend group until like last week and still have a mutual friend in mario, and more importantly in this clip lovro has a bigger priority than whatever he and filip have between them. by having filips mom be the one who's bipolar thus creating the need for this conversation i seriously need people to stop seeing that as somehow being a writing choice that sets up a "redemption arc". this in itself is simply a choice to demonstrate how important ivan is to lovro in that he doesn't really care that he has to talk to filip, he just wants to help ivan. the small hints we have about filips character and his personal life are all there to give you a sense as to why he holds these homophobic beliefs. what they're doing is not shying away from depicting the real people that are just like filip i'm sure you've encountered many similar people. sram doesn't exist as a romance show even though people sometimes watch it for that purpose, the entire premise and purpose of this show is to show teens as individuals with complex lives and realities and not shy away from the more unpleasant conversations. the remakes then take that and explore that within their cultural context. THIS is that unpleasant conversation that sram wants to have. the og isak season confronted religous beliefs on homophobia and mental health stigma, this season is focused on internal homophobia and the societal attitude in croatia towards being gay. we've had all the mentions of violence, vito going into more depth than some other remakes about his parents reaction, lovro staying with ema for so long, him not even wanting to tell the boys and have jakov do it for him, and filip's reaction to lovro. it's about lovro learning to live in a society that doesn't embrace him and chosing to accept himself anyways. we haven't even seen anyone forgive filip on screen and the show certainly doesn't paint him in any way that excuses what he did so i think people are wayyy too quick to be upset about the clip. they're not trying to convince you to forgive him. wether he's served his purpose in the season and doesn't appear again or he changes his mindset and we get to see that, there's no use judging his arc as a whole when it's not even clear where they will end it. sram has characters that are imperfect because people in real life are imperfect and they're not gonna put those characters in morally good and morally bad boxes so its more easily digestible.
just because YOU don't like a character or their arc does NOT equate to bad writing man i thought we all knew this by now...
i totally understand that a lot of you are disappointed right now and even feeling hopeless. but here are my two cents from a queer slavic person who has been in the skam fandom for a long time.
i actually think sram is handling this really thoughtfully and carefully when it comes to the characters’ actions. because it fits perfectly for them. lovro is not isak! and ivan is not even. yes, they are inspired by them. but they are still their own characters, shaped by their own context and experiences.
if you go back and watch the first episodes, it shows totally clear how much they actually like each other. it’s just more subtle than in other remakes or in OG skam. the way they look at each other, especially when lovro sees ivan for the first time or at all those parties they attended. lovro literally has daydreams about ivan. or during the basketball game, ivan constantly wanted to be near lovro. it’s all there. it’s just quieter and softer.
lovro completely loses himself in his thoughts when he thinks about moments with ivan. BUT this is his first queer relationship. he has to accept that part of himself and society doesn’t exactly make it easy. he literally experiences h*mophobia. ofc he is scared!! he is reserved. public displays of affection overwhelm him. that is normal!
when i was in my first queer relationship, i was the same. i needed time to feel comfortable. to let go, to be touched and show affection. even to hold hands was hard for me. that doesn’t just come naturally when you’re scared and especially when you’re slavic.
right now, both of them are struggling with their own personal issues. and looking at this week’s events, a super happy and romantic hotel clip wouldn’t even have felt right. it wouldn’t have matched where they are emotionally.
BUT i truly believe that they will get there. it will be so beautiful when they work through this together and when they open up to each other. what they already have is the foundation of a relationship. they totally like each other and they want each other. lovro was so clearly worried when everyone was laughing about ivan in that school scene this week. he cares! they both care. you can see it in so many small moments.
so yes, i understand all the reactions. but i think they’ll be even more meaningful and intense once they’ve figured things out together. rather than if we were given big romantic scenes that simply wouldn’t fit in the story right now.
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Because I refuse to be doomposting at such dark times because the sun will shine on us again, I'd like to point out one thing.
Lovro being so uncomfortable with being touched and perceived as gay in a public environment right now also comes from the fact that Ivan is being extremely bold. (Yeah, no shit sherlock. I know, I know just wait!)
It feels like it will never get better right now and that they're on 2 completely different planets when it comes to this, but as Lovro said in the sauna, Ivan does care still. He cared when he told him after their first kiss about an homophobia attack that happened in the city. He told Lovro about his worries. And yes, he definitely is more comfortable and probably more ready to assume this whole thing than Lovro. But he still cares.
I genuinely don't think they're as far as we think they are. And I'm not just talking about Ivan still being worried about homophobia. I'm also, and mainly, talking about Lovro's readiness to accept all this. I don't think it's as bad as we think it is and I do think he's more ready than is being shown there.
People always talk about Lovro as if he'll never be able to overcome any of his fears, or that he's too far down to get out now. I don't think so and that might be controversial (I don't know maybe not?) but I think he IS much more ready than we think. The simple fact (and yeah I think he was just terrified, but you know) that he didn't correct Ivan with the receptionist or even like litteraly run away during or after the whole interaction with the guy in the sauna is a great hint at that. He just needs Ivan to give him more time.
Ivan is being extremely bold with all this, and even if he's always quite like that, it is also currently heightened by his mania. So he comes of WAY too strong for Lovro who's still so early on this discovery and acceptance of himself. It created extremely awkward and generally just really hard situations like the sauna or even the reception where Ivan is absolutely not listening to anything Lovro will say and is unable to empathise with what Lovro's trying to say. It's not an environment in which Lovro can really grow because he's constantly being pushed too far too strong too fast.
Next week and onward, when everything will have come down and everything will just go much, much slower again, I feel like the situation is going to be completely different.
Ivan will go at a completely different speed and they'll be able to match each other's pace much more. Because on one side, Ivan will be able to understand Lovro's needs much easier, and this will lead Lovro to be much more comfortable. I think he IS ready for more and he IS ready to be probably a bit more bold, but only if he is given the space to do it at his own pace.
We'll have on one side Ivan who will go slower and Lovro who will be able to go faster and they'll meet in the middle in a more complementary way than before.
This is also why I think the real tricky part for the show is how they handle what's coming next. How I feel about their choice now will greatly be influenced (I think) by what I hope is coming next!
Boosting for my good friend Nanni. Just because a complaint is 3,372 years old doesn't mean it's no longer deserving of your attention. Ea-nāṣir cannot keep getting away with this.
it's just so beautiful how fucking around makes you find out. ea-nasir we have reaped what you have sown and it is beautiful. corporate pettiness at its finest