Grace

[Side note: this is more specific version of How Jedi made Anakin Skywalker feel through the years. I focused only on star wars novels I had at hands, so it’s more brief overview than real analysis]

Rogue Planet:

“You seem to be ganging up on this boy [Anakin].”

“It could be worse,” Mace said. “Most of the Council are away today. Yoda would be much harsher-”

“That big-eared tree stump knows nothing about human children. And for that matter, neither do you.

[Thracia Cho Leem  standing up for 12-years old Anakin]

The Clone Wars:

Yoda fixed him with a critical stare. “Trouble you have with your new Padawan, I hear.”

“I was explaining the situation to Master Yoda,” Kenobi said.

“If not ready for the responsibility of a Padawan you are, then perhaps to Obi-Wan she should go …”

Anakin didn’t take kindly to those kinds of psychological games, not even from Master Yoda - especially from him.

Remember me, Master? The Chosen One? The one you didn’t want to train?

“There are no problems, Master,” he said calmly. “Who could possibly make such a far-reaching judgment about a youngling’s future in such a short time, anyway? That would be rash. Unfair, even. It’s our duty to nurture talent and support it.”

If Yoda felt the barbs in Anakin’s comment, he didn’t show any reaction. “Mature your judgment is becoming. Perhaps teach you she will, as much as you teach her.”

Anakin bit back a riposte, because he would not rise to the bait. He bowed instead. “I shall do my utmost, Master.”

“Then go with you she will, to the Teth system.”

Anakin felt he was walking into something set up for him. Did you know this was coming, Obi-Wan? No, he wouldn’t show dissent. “Has the fighting spread that far? I didn’t think the Separatist army had any presence there.”

“No army. But kidnapped, Jabba the Hutt’s son has been.”

It took a couple of seconds to sink in. He couldn’t hide his disgust, not completely anyway. “You want me to rescue a Hutt?”

It was a test. It had to be. However much it rankled, Anakin was determined to pass it.

Kenobi dived in immediately. “We need Jabba’s backing to fight this war, Anakin. If we can’t use Hutt-controlled routes, we can’t fight in the Outer Rim. It’s that simple. I’m going to negotiate with Jabba while you retrieve the hostage.”

“Hostage …”

“His baby son. Rotta.”

Anakin wondered whether it was expedience, simple logic - both he and Kenobi spoke Huttese and were experienced in covert missions - or some exercise in character building. Yoda knew Anakin’s past, that he and his mother had been slaves of a Hutt. Jabba raked off a cut from the slave trade, too, so he was personally connected to Anakin’s boyhood misery, and even his mother’s ultimate fate. Callous didn’t begin to cover it.

Anakin bowed and walked away with as much serenity as he could muster. He didn’t want the Masters knowing the task had hit a raw nerve. He slipped into a machinery space off the docking bay lor a little privacy, sent a message to Padme to let her know he was fine and that he missed her-no mention of close calls with collapsing walls, or crazy Padawans-and centered himself again.

I’m not a kid. I shouldn’t be feeling like this. It’s not the Jedi way. Maybe Yoda was right; I was too old to train. I can’t be like them, all serene and unfeeling.

So the Jedi Council can pull out all the stops for a Hutt criminal when it suits them.

And they send me.

Is Master Yoda trying to teach me a lesson about submission to the will of the Force? Does he even remember how I came to be a Jedi?

Anakin wondered just how good, how clever, how brave he’d have to be to get any acknowledgment from the Jedi Masters. He didn’t serve for prizes; he served because Qui-Gon Jinn believed he had a destiny, and he needed to know what that was to make sense of the pain and loss in his life. But he knew as surely as he knew anything that his troops liked him and cared if he lived or died, and that Kenobi did his best to make up for the sheer … dislocation Anakin felt at being absorbed into this Jedi world of no families, no loves, and no passions.

One day, I must thank Master Yoda and the Jedi Council for contributing so generously to our cause. You would think they would take better care of their Chosen One. But all they seem to do, from what I hear-and I hear a great deal-is to frustrate and alienate young Skywalker. I believe they’re storing up trouble for themselves.

[Darth Sidious, better known as Chancellor Palpatine, to Count Dooku]

[TCW] GAMBIT: Stealth

“For the Kothlis engagement much praise have you earned,” said Yoda. “Save Obi-Wan and your Padawan you did, as well as the spynet facility.”

Praise from Yoda was rare. He should be thrilled… but he wasn’t. Because I’m tired? Or because it’s too little, too late?

Yoda nodded. “Good night, young Skywalker.”

But after taking a couple of steps toward the refuse station he hesitated. Go on. You might as well. You might not get another chance. He turned back. “Okay. Obi-Wan’ll kill me for saying this but I don’t care. Master Yoda…”

Yoda’s luminous eyes, which so often seemed disapproving, warmed. “Worry not for Obi-Wan, young Anakin. This night he spends in the Halls of Healing. Deep, untroubled sleep he requires and deep, untroubled sleep he shall have.”

“No kidding,” he said, impressed despite himself. “How did you manage that?”

“After nine hundred years a few tricks for dealing with wayward young Jedi have I learned,” said Yoda, close to outright amusement. “Forget that you should not, hmmm?”

It wasn’t often he and Yoda shared a joke.

“Yes, Master. Thank you. But that doesn’t tell me about Obi-Wan.”

Yoda retrieved his gimer stick and hopped to the ground. “Observant you are, young Skywalker,” he said, large eyes still half lidded in that inscrutable way of his. “Sleep well. Weary also are you. Mindful of that you must be.”

Anakin watched the ancient Jedi tap-tap-tap his way out of the dining hall.

So, what… was that a yes? A no? Or a work it out for yourself?

Revenge of the Sith:

“He’d been surprised by how graciously the ancient Jedi Master had invited him into his quarters, and by how patiently Yoda had listened to his stumbling attempts to explain his question without giving away his secret; Yoda had never made any attempt to conceal what had always seemed to Anakin to be a gruff disapproval of Anakin’s very existence.“

“Rejoice for those who transform into the Force. Mourn them not. Miss them not.”

“Then why do we fight at all, Master? Why save anybody?”

“Speaking of anybody, we are not,” Yoda had said sternly “Speaking of you, and your vision, and your fear, we are. The shadow of greed, attachment is. What you fear to lose, train yourself to release. Let go of fear, and loss cannot harm you.” Which was when Anakin had realized Yoda wasn’t going to be any help at all. The greatest sage of the Jedi Order had nothing better to offer him than more pious babble about Letting Things Pass Out Of His Life.

Like he hadn’t heard that a million times already. Easy for him-who had Yoda ever cared about? Really cared about? Of one thing Anakin was certain: the ancient Master had never been in love.

If you’re getting belittled, blackmailed, insulted, physically harmed, physically threatened, physically forced to comply to sex with your partner after saying no without question or protest from them asking you if you could reconsider, you’re physically ill, you protest you’re in pain during sex with them, you’re so drunk or high that you struggle to know your own mind, tand they give you reason to believe that you won’t be okay if you refuse them, then that’s definite rape/sexual assault/sexual coercion that you should run away from immediately.

Giving in to empty pleases from an established and safe male partner when you express hesitance or uncertainty in regards to the timing or situation for sex shouldn’t become a habit in a relationship, but it’s also not something that automatically makes him an abusive rapist, inherently manipulative, or a terrible human being if he occasionally persuades you into sex in a new situation, or setting that make you feel awkward or uncomfortable because of the timing. As long as you both know you want each other, both love each other, and you both know you won’t ever be cruel, hurtful, or physically forceful to get sex when one of you is uncertain or reluctant, you’re both reasonably healthy, sober, and clear headed, and you both know you don’t have reason to fear for pushing away or saying no, it doesn’t automatically mean either of you are an irredeemably evil sexual predator to get whiny, ask, or beg them to reconsider for sex when one of you express doubtfulness and uncertainty at the awkwardness of the situation, the new experience, or the timing when options are limited.

I don’t think I see Obi-Wan in quite the same way a lot of other people see him, though it is also entirely possible that I’m just not finding the right metas and other posts. I swear to God, I feel like by the time anyone who’s reading this is finished, they’re going to think I hate him, but I really don’t, I promise you I don’t. It’s just that there are times when I feel some cognitive dissonance when I think of him, and I think it’s because he is such a dissonant person sometimes. The man contains multitudes.

Anyways, the duality of Obi-Wan Kenobi:

They’re both very deferential, loyal, and passionate people who love deeply and want to find security in a world where it always seems to be at stake. However, at their worst, they also share many of the same negative qualities of being arrogant, hot-tempered, self-centered, stubborn, vindictive, and willing to enable and perpetuate terrible crimes for what they consider to be worthy ends of that security.

Moreover, the ways in which their selfishness and desires for validation from others manifest are different. Obi-Wan becomes selfish in his desire to fit in with Yoda and the Jedi Council at the cost of throwing away everyone and everything else to do that, no matter how much he might care about them because he views their as a way to feel secure in his own lack of self-confidence in his own morality with that whole “greater good” mantra.

Anakin becomes selfish in his willingness to throw everyone and everything else away to hold on to the people he loves or identifies with at nearly all costs when the odds are against him for feeling safe in being honest and open with the rest of the galaxy enough to actually risk making those changes for the better that he sought out to make in the beginning before getting exhausted from constantly being shut down. He then adopts the same “greater good” mantra as a coping mechanism to compartmentalize his guilt over doing terrible things for Sidious, protection of self, protection of family, and protection of the Empire in his fear of the unknown when his agency is even more compromised in that suit than it was before. With inspiration from Luke, he finally feels convinced to be brave enough to break the cycle of systematic abuse, crime, fear, and tyranny, and admits he fucked up before he dies. You could assume force!ghost Obi-Wan and Yoda realize they fucked up off screen after seeing Luke get through to Anakin by talking to him and being compassionate, but we never see the growth of self-realization that should have happened on screen.

I also do think that, in a way, Obi-Wan would be more dangerous than a fallen Anakin because, in spite of his dark and twisted he became, Anakin still has enough self-awareness to realize all along that that both the old Jedi Order/Republic and the Sith/Empire are broken institutions that he’s following along with in public out of fear of the unknown deep down, even if he eventually learns to live in denial by disassociating himself from it to compartmentalize his guilt. Anakin is ultimately aware that the “greater good” mantra was just an excuse to cover up his own fears and insecurities deep down. In spite of how dark he does become, unlike Obi-Wan, he still had some experience with how healthy individuality, morality, secure attachments, and empathy for individuals was supposed to work outside of the fucked up dystopia of the broken Jedi Order, Republic, Sith, and Empire, however limited it was, from at least his mother on Tatooine for the first nine years of his life.

It’s why Anakin does still look for people who he hopes will encourage him to break the cycle and realize that both the systems in which they live under are bullshit, too. It’s why he does still look for guidance and support from people he can identify with because they don’t fit in either and offer him a sense of personal security and identity through companionship and encouragement when he comes across them, even if he goes about it really badly after going dark. He’s often too insecure to actually take the risk of breaking the cycle of toxicity and oppression himself because he’s so often been abused, shut down, and oppressed himself when he tried, and Anakin hates himself, particularly after his fall when he pushed away the people he loved and killed so many who didn’t deserve it because he was afraid of the unknown, so for a while, he does just give up after going dark.

Obi-Wan is such a fascinating character, to me, because of how deeply flawed he is. He has so many problems, so many darker qualities that it makes him very interesting. It’s fun to explore all the sides of him, partially because there’s so much cognitive dissonance going on. And yes, I definitely think that Obi-Wan, like anyone, can Fall, and if he did Fall, he’d Fall so far that he’d never really come back. He wouldn’t think he can, he wouldn’t think he deserves to, whatever it may be, I do not think that a Fallen Obi-Wan could ever really turn back.

I’m not saying Obi-Wan was generally a malicious or ill-intended person, but I feel like his fall to the dark side or as a fallen Jedi would honestly feel a lot more like a hopeless drag than Anakin’s in the series because for him sticking with the status quo by pleasing authority figures to fit in the broken Jedi Order by earning their external validation is his main priority at all costs. He doesn’t seek much change, close connections, escape, freedom, or self-discovery from a life within these deeply fucked up institutions that most people would get sick and tired of playing along with. He’s not really happy in these systems, but he’s learned to be content within living in denial to define his morality externally that way because he is addicted to the sense of security he gets from ass-kissing those authority figures within them to get their approval.

Anakin ultimately can find a sense of security in his personal values and love for family and friends. He goes about it atrociously at times, particularly after going dark, and once he gets put in that suit, he does stop actively seeking it out as much in his anger and fear until he finds out about Luke. However, even before Luke, as Vader in the suit whenever he finds opportunities to make change and gain freedom from connections with Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Padme’s ghost, he still tries to grasp them, in spite of also pushing them away in doing so terribly.

getting mad all over again that people still act like shirley was a bad person for sending her brother (who was high on heroin) away from his sister's wedding after they established over and over again that he has stolen from them, lied to them, and wasted tens of thousands of dollars on rehab that he repeatedly ran away from and relapsed, and that every event he shows up to becomes about his failed recovery and his ongoing addiction and she doesnt want him to ruin nell's wedding day because nell would make it about luke because she loves him so much and she deserves one day about her and not about luke.

like. i experienced happy family events ruined by my alcoholic family members because people insisted they should be there, where the family member insisting they come is just an enabler who forgives too much and continuously lets these family members ruin every happy event. they are diseased, but i refuse to pretend like they have 0 agency. i love these people. i will always love them, and we supported them through numerous rehabilitation attempts.

However, when help and treatment is offered to those suffering with addiction multiple times by loved ones, expect you to enable their addiction, they keep burning your trust, and/or don’t put in an effort to do better, it is better to put the addict in your life at a distance. If you enable their addiction and continue to let them burn you, you’ll both end up hurting. As someone who also comes from a family with a history of substance abuse, Luke’s character is an accurate and sympathetic portrayal of a chronic drug addict, but it’s also totally understandable why Steven, Shirley, and Theo have grown distrusting and tired of supporting their little brother.

It doesn’t mean they stopped caring about him. Steven actually offered him a blanket and some money when he saw Luke almost break into his apartment looking for some cash and warmth. Shirley spent money to send Luke to rehab for treatment multiple times, but he kept relapsing. Unconditional love does not mean unconditional support, though. You can’t keep trying to emotionally and financially support someone who continually abuses and/or wastes that support.

I have never seen the Haunting series on Netflix because I'm a wimpy wimp wimp who recoils at any visual medium of horror but I watched some fanvids just now and yeeeessssssssss. I am massively in love with Carla Gugino so you know. I'll take that.

I have to admit, I am very partial to waifish insane woman, for all its problematic tendencies. Like there's a quote in the asoiaf series (fuck me if I can find it) about how all the mums in that series are just on another level of mother bear tendencies, like having children can like literally change your brain chemistry and how mothers are a bit mad as a result. I don't want to buy into that too much because it goes down weird biological determinism routes so for me it's more: she wanted this and it made her that way versus this happened to her and it made her that way. If that makes sense.

I do write her with some inspirations from Cersei - a bit less malicious maybe but someone who isn't as smart as she thinks she is and who very much does love her kids but like also in such an inhibiting and destructive manner, and where she will say until the cows come home that she puts her kids first, and sometimes she will, but then there are times where her own ambition trumps the kid's wellbeing and it's like welp. Tough tittties kiddos. Like encouraging all the wrong traits.

He was still a hilariously awful, crude, greedy, and manipulative bastard who got what was coming to him in the end, but his ex-wife Delores and Jeremy Frazier were far worse than him because they were pretty much pure evil without standards. Betelgeuse is still an awful man, but even he draws the line at murdering people he cares about in cold blood for shits and giggles and/or tricking the living into sacrificing their lives by pretending to have genuine feelings for them until they’re no longer of use to his personal gain.

He genuinely loved Delores because she made him believe she genuinely loved him until he realized that she had been leading him on the whole time on their wedding night when she killed him by poisoning him with spiked wine to try to suck out his soul to gain immortality. When you first see Delores stitching her body parts back together in the underworld, it seems like she was murdered in an exceedingly inhumane manner. Betelgeuse murdered her by cutting up her body into little pieces and separated her body parts into several little bags sealed up tightly.

Then, after Delores stitches herself back together, we see her start sucking out souls in the underworld of anyone who gets in her way of trying to find Betelgeuse, and we hear Betelgeuse’s story of why he killed her in that manner on their wedding night, it makes a lot more sense. If he’d just killed her quickly and left her body whole, she’d be sucking out the souls of him and everyone else in the underworld who got in her way. By killing her in the brutal manner that he did and stripping her of freedom to live in the underworld, he was actually protecting himself and the other undead from her wrath. That’s why even he draws the line at leading people on with false feelings for his personal gain. Oh, he’s perfectly okay with coercing Lydia to sign a contract agreeing to marry him in exchange for his help to save her daughter’s life because he knows she’s in a desperate situation, lacking in alternative options and time to get to the underworld to save her daughter’s life before it’s too late, and he knows that she will be willing to sacrifice herself to protect and/or rescue the people she cares about. He’s perfectly fine with having and keeping a Lydia who doesn’t truly love him. Betelgeuse knows Lydia’s not the dishonest, evil, or vengeful type, though.

He also is a puppet-master character who does a lot of manipulating throughout the series, which I can understand could look like Te (extroverted thinking) dominant/auxiliary function. However, I really think he just manipulates the feelings of others with unhealthy Fe aux, and gets stuck in an Ni-Ti loop and Se-inferior grip on-and-off-again, particularly between 3B-6A. His feelings for Belle and Bae are genuine. While he displays unhealthy attitudes, behaviors, and choices in his relationships with them at times (most of which were OOC between S4-S6, in my opinion) when he’s in a relationship with these people he genuinely loves, he’s actually quite doting, emotional, loving, and romantic.

Also, his sense of logic seems more Ti-based than Te-based, to me. Belle calls him out for lying to her after he uses a wraith to try to kill Regina for revenge after she tells him to promise her not to kill the Evil Queen. His response is that he never technically lied because he used a wraith. He doesn’t expect for people to see through the loopholes and clauses in his deals when he catches them at their most desperate. He tends to keep his motives to himself. His motives are primarily centered around family and security.

the most important developmental years for children are between the ages of one and three, and both witnessing and experiencing abuse at that age will cause severe long-term damage. what happens during those years will affect you for the rest of your life— and anakin didn't stand a chance, no matter how hard his mother tried.

as a result, anakin almost certainly has c-ptsd (complex post-traumatic stress disorder), along with regular ptsd and a host of other mental health issues that i won't get into here. c-ptsd is is a form of ptsd that stems from chronic trauma— trauma that continues over the course of months or years, typically in childhood. the primary difference between ptsd and c-ptsd is the length of the traumatic event— for example, a week versus nine years.

symptoms of c-ptsd include anxiety, nightmares, flashbacks, hypervigilance, suicidal ideation, self-harming behaviors, a distorted sense of self, an inability to regulate emotions, heightened emotional responses, depression, low self-esteem and trouble with interpersonal relationships. anakin demonstrates many of these symptoms.

it should be mentioned that c-ptsd is treatable, primarily by cognitive behavioral therapy with a professional who focuses specially on trauma. other treatments include exposure therapy, cognitive therapy and cognitive processing therapy. additionally medications can be prescribed to treat specific symptoms, such as depression, anxiety and sleep. anakin got none of this.

there's little argument to be had on how badly the jedi fucked up— they took an extremely traumatized child away from his mother, told him to forget about her, and then instructed him to suppress any of the negative emotions that would unavoidably stem from this. not only did they leave anakin's trauma unaddressed and untreated, they also continued the cycle of abuse with their treatment of him, whether they meant to or not.

They were never planning on telling Luke that Vader was his estranged biological father because they didn’t want him to realize his familial attachment to him, and kill him.

They told Luke to just allow for his friends lives to be endangered when they got kidnapped and tortured by Vader and Palpatine, and when Luke openly disagreed with them, they left him to his own defenses right after bringing him on as a recruit. This was when Luke was just starting his training with the force and lightsabers with Obi-Wan and Yoda, and they think it’s perfectly okay to let him risk his life because he wants to save his friends in imminent danger.

In A New Hope, Obi-Wan provokes Vader to kill him in front of Luke when he’s watching, so that he can motivate this young man to fight for him. This is in the very first movie of the franchise! When Luke calls out Obi-Wan by asking him why he never told him that Darth Vader was his father, Obi-Wan denies any personal responsibility of wrongdoing on his part and never apologizes. Instead, he gaslights him by saying “What I told you was true…from a certain point of view.”

So it really doesn’t shock me that Anakin Skywalker and the other Jedi of his time got put through far worse emotional/psychological abuse, neglect, and endangerment than Luke when they were in power. If Luke hadn’t had 18 years of a healthy, loving, normal, nurturing, and safe upbringing under Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru before becoming a Jedi, he absolutely would have been screwed.

My favorite characters were Rumple, Belle, Emma, and Nealfire. Once Nealfire got killed off though, their characterizations and their relationships, as well as everyone else’s thereafter, went to total shit in canon. Adam and Eddy obviously couldn’t come up with any more than two-and-a-half seasons of organic or satisfying character growth for the original main cast, and it should have ended in 3x11, in my opinion. I’m pretty sure that Damon Lindlelof helped them out with the writing a lot for the first two-and-a-half seasons, which is why the story is at least coherent enough to be enjoyable up to 3x11.

But after 3A, Lindlelof’s plans for the show were butchered, Kitsowitz completely took over the show with Captain Fuckboy, PLOT, and making money their main focuses, so they kept it on air for the next four-and-a-half seasons not knowing what else to do now that they had run out of new story. Thus, it got to the point where it essentially devolved into such badly written crack!fic soap opera on screen by the end of 5A where the writing for everyone’s characterization had become so unbelievably OOC, annoyingly self-contradictory, changeable, hypocritical, illogical, melodramatically problematic, and toxic in favor of the PLOT that I had to quit to preserve my sanity.

I enjoyed reading Rumbelle fanfic moreso than the actual show because it made sense and felt more satisfying, well-written, in-character, and entertaining than the nonsensical toxic garbage the show had devolved into.

After 5A, Eddy Kitsis said in an interview that he thought “good storytelling” was making sure the audience goes “WTF? This makes absolutely no sense! This isn’t fair! This totally contradicts everything that I was shown before, and feels too stupid, too contrived, and too OOC to even believe possible.”

It wasn’t worth getting emotionally or mentally invested in this show or any of the remaining characters as written in canon anymore post 3A because A&E and these writers formula kept becoming more and more of “We’re doing our jobs if we can trick our audience after deliberately teasing them by dangling the carrot of organic growth of character that we’re too lazy to follow through on by yanking it away from them as soon as they start making logical predictions abruptly, cruelly and inorganically with constant twist of ’HOLY SHIT, CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT JUST HAPPENED?”

When Eddy basically said that at the end of 5A, I realized I was done with having any hope for this show, and I decided to finally quit watching after 5B because I knew every time something started to seem to make sense and go in a direction of organic growth for the characters, A&E and these writers would deliberately pull the rug out from under them and their audience for trying to get invested in them with some inorganic contrivance that ruined everything in an unfair way that made no sense and never would make any sense in canon from what we were led to believe would happen beforehand on this show by them because that was the whole point: A&E and these writers so often didn’t want you to make sense of their show because they were lazy hacks who didn’t know how to write a cohesive plot or organic character growth/realistic characterization after 3A.

They admitted that they liked whiplashing their audience for using common sense and logic in regards to fans whenever the story and the characters would seem to be potentially headed in a way that would make sense. They considered that “genuis” storytelling with their overinflated egos, rather than just very cruel, mean, lazy, and low bad writing that ultimately destroyed most of their main characters’ credibility and their fans willingness to stay emotionally invested in their canon show that the creators/writers refused to let unfold organically in a way that made consistent sense long term.

Instead, they used a constant series of contrived magical macguffins and twists of “WTF just happened? This makes no damned sense from what was just previously established on screen, and does not at all relate to it! This is unbelievably absurd! The characters would never do or say this shit in real life!”

It destroyed the credibility of most of their characters’ in canon and their fans willingness to stay emotionally invested in their show, and it was insulting, especially when you had showrunners like Eddy Kitsis admitting to the fans “As always with this show, once the audience gets onto what we’re doing, we have to change it.”

When they said “We hope things will be ‘fun’” for the character assassinating, wildly OOC, nonsensical, and melodramatic garbage writing of 6A for Rumbelle with the Morfetus bs twist or in 5A of the Dark Swan arc, they didn’t mean that we would necessarily be legitimately entertained as an audience when they threw in a character destroying inorganic magical contrivance or bizarre twist out of nowhere that forced the characters into weird directions that made no sense from what had been previously established.

Adam and Eddy meant that they would be having fun pissing those of us in their audience off by insulting our intelligence and common sense by constantly giving us inorganic contrivance of OOC characterizations, magical macguffins, and bizarre PLOT twists and contrivances that didn’t consistently, logically, and thus satisfyingly add up with what had been previously established, rather than entertaining us with organic character growth that made satisfactory sense by letting our predictions for characters come true in their sheer laziness to slow down and write organic character development.

There were even hints of this problem before 3B-S7 that I was seeing potential for in 2B. OUAT could have gone strong for longer than two to three ish seasons if A&E and these writers had slowed down from 2B, not gotten obsessed with Hook, not gone to Neverland, and not gotten so obsessed with the next big, bizarre, and contrived magical PLOT twist or macguffin that, oftentimes inorganically forced their characters to 180 regress in ways that made no sense for moments of “HOLY SHIT! WTF JUST HAPPENED?”

I have no problem with characters regressing when it’s done organically, slowly, relatably, and realistically. The problem with OUAT was that they used inorganic contrivances to push them back-and-forth between increasingly bizarre extremes that made no sense, rather than focusing on human or realistic motivations to get them from point A to point C organically. It felt fake, and it felt forced. I know it was fiction, but it felt like lazily badly written fiction when the characters swung back-and-forth by the writers playing God with them on the strings of their asinine PLOT twists inorganically.

It had gotten beyond exhausting trying to invest in a show run by petty hacks who were never going to allow their audience’s common sense and intelligence lead them through an organic path of growth for these characters with the writers dangling the carrot in front of them for a story that actually could make sense, and then abruptly, cruelly, and inorganically yanking it away from them with an absurd twist because they were too lazy to come up with any more ideas for organic character growth after 3A.

Let’s talk about Hook and CS becoming such a main focus on this show, and the romantic male lead/couple.” It’s not that Hook couldn’t have been organically developed into a sympathetic character worthy of redemption in his own right. A&E couldn’t write that, though. He also didn’t fit together with the ensemble main cast in the place of Nealfire as Emma’s main love interest. He and Emma had absolutely no chemistry. Hook’s sudden interest in her was bizarre and creepy.

Then, they killed off Nealfire through absurd means for Hook to take his place in the picture where he didn’t fit in the family circle, so they could have CS. They broke their own rules to bring Rumple back from the dead to turn him into the wildly OOC on-and-off-again “big bad” scapegoat cartoonish villain PLOT twister “foil” to Hook, even after having been given two-and-a-half seasons of the most well-written and well-earned sympathetic reforming anti-villain/tragic hero backstory and redemption arc from S1-3A. They destroyed Emma’s, Belle’s, Snow’s, David’s, and even Henry’s original sympathetic characterizations by obliterating their self-respect, intelligence, self-awareness, and moral integrity, so that they could inorganically force this bullshit narrative of Hook/CS being the “best hero” ever in a world of now meaningless, shallow, and simplistic black versus white hypocritical morality that Nealfire and the common goal of family balanced out with a sense of realism, common sense, organic growth and emotional depth that got lost with his death in favor of contradictory character destroying magical PLOT-twist driven Drama™️ soap opera “hero versus villain” fuckery and Hook/CS.

No wonder they lost more and more viewers as every season passed…Getting emotionally invested was no fun when the writers deliberately pulled the rug out from underneath your favorite characters whenever things started to seem making sense by totally ruining it with some bizarre magical contrivance or characterization that doesn’t add up to what we were shown before, and your logical predictions for stories that made organic and consistent sense for character growth were mocked by these writers because they refused to slow down and develop the characters after S1-3A. You were punished for being smart and using common sense, and that’s why most of these main characters’ credibility and integrity got completely destroyed in one way or another by this very lazy, petty and unfair bad writing technique of theirs that made them mostly feel like pod!people after just the first two-and-a-half seasons of the series.

tldr; You could only suspend your disbelief by turning off your brain to disregard the bullshit writing choices on OUAT and just blindly enjoy the show by getting invested in the characters for so long as written in canon without asking any questions before the writing became too infuriatingly repetitive, too contrived, too OOC, too character assassinating, and too stupid to believe. Also, Captain Fuckboy ruined the show after 3A, and he should have died and stayed dead back in early S2. It could have been different if A&E were good writers who could come up with organic character growth, and not shoehorned him in as Emma’s love interest in a way that ruined the whole show’s dynamic and sense of emotional depth by replacing Nealfire with him.

Nealfire’s death was the metaphorical death of the show’s canon, though. My personal headcanon was that the real show ended with “Going Home” (3x11) because that’s the last time there was any sort of compelling, consistent, organic, realistic, or relatable characterization or growth. After that, it all went to hell (literally), and I had to finally quit watching after S5 to preserve my sanity before anything got any worse, and on this show, it only would because A&E and these writers never learned.

My favorite characters were Rumple, Belle, Emma, and Nealfire. Once Nealfire got killed off though, their characterizations and their relationships, as well as everyone else’s thereafter, went to total shit in canon. Adam and Eddy obviously couldn’t come up with any more than two-and-a-half seasons of organic or satisfying character growth for the original main cast, and it should have ended in 3x11, in my opinion. I’m pretty sure that Damon Lindlelof helped them out with the writing a lot for the first two-and-a-half seasons, which is why the story is at least coherent enough to be enjoyable up to 3x11.

But after 3A, Lindlelof’s plans for the show were butchered, Kitsowitz completely took over the show with Captain Fuckboy, PLOT, and making money their main focuses, so they kept it on air for the next four-and-a-half seasons not knowing what else to do now that they had run out of new story. Thus, it got to the point where it essentially devolved into such badly written crack!fic soap opera on screen by the end of 5A where the writing for everyone’s characterization had become so unbelievably OOC, annoyingly self-contradictory, changeable, hypocritical, illogical, melodramatically problematic, and toxic in favor of the PLOT that I had to quit to preserve my sanity.

I enjoyed reading Rumbelle fanfic moreso than the actual show because it made sense and felt more satisfying, well-written, in-character, and entertaining than the nonsensical toxic garbage the show had devolved into.

After 5A, Eddy Kitsis said in an interview that he thought “good storytelling” was making sure the audience goes “WTF? This makes absolutely no sense! This isn’t fair! This totally contradicts everything that I was shown before, and feels too stupid, too contrived, and too OOC to even believe possible.”

It wasn’t worth getting emotionally or mentally invested in this show or any of the remaining characters as written in canon anymore post 3A because A&E and these writers formula kept becoming more and more of “We’re doing our jobs if we can trick our audience after deliberately teasing them by dangling the carrot of organic growth of character that we’re too lazy to follow through on by yanking it away from them as soon as they start making logical predictions abruptly, cruelly and inorganically with constant twist of ’HOLY SHIT, CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT JUST HAPPENED?”

When Eddy basically said that at the end of 5A, I realized I was done with having any hope for this show, and I decided to finally quit watching after 5B because I knew every time something started to seem to make sense and go in a direction of organic growth for the characters, A&E and these writers would deliberately pull the rug out from under them and their audience for trying to get invested in them with some inorganic contrivance that ruined everything in an unfair way that made no sense and never would make any sense in canon from what we were led to believe would happen beforehand on this show by them because that was the whole point: A&E and these writers so often didn’t want you to make sense of their show because they were lazy hacks who didn’t know how to write a cohesive plot or organic character growth/realistic characterization after 3A.

They admitted that they liked whiplashing their audience for using common sense and logic in regards to fans whenever the story and the characters would seem to be potentially headed in a way that would make sense. They considered that “genuis” storytelling with their overinflated egos, rather than just very cruel, mean, lazy, and low bad writing that ultimately destroyed most of their main characters’ credibility and their fans willingness to stay emotionally invested in their canon show that the creators/writers refused to let unfold organically in a way that made consistent sense long term.

Instead, they used a constant series of contrived magical macguffins and twists of “WTF just happened? This makes no damned sense from what was just previously established on screen, and does not at all relate to it! This is unbelievably absurd! The characters would never do or say this shit in real life!”

It destroyed the credibility of most of their characters’ in canon and their fans willingness to stay emotionally invested in their show, and it was insulting, especially when you had showrunners like Eddy Kitsis admitting to the fans “As always with this show, once the audience gets onto what we’re doing, we have to change it.”

When they said “We hope things will be ‘fun’” for the character assassinating, wildly OOC, nonsensical, and melodramatic garbage writing of 6A for Rumbelle with the Morfetus bs twist or in 5A of the Dark Swan arc, they didn’t mean that we would necessarily be legitimately entertained as an audience when they threw in a character destroying inorganic magical contrivance or bizarre twist out of nowhere that forced the characters into weird directions that made no sense from what had been previously established.

Adam and Eddy meant that they would be having fun pissing those of us in their audience off by insulting our intelligence and common sense by constantly giving us inorganic contrivance of OOC characterizations, magical macguffins, and bizarre PLOT twists and contrivances that didn’t consistently, logically, and thus satisfyingly add up with what had been previously established, rather than entertaining us with organic character growth that made satisfactory sense by letting our predictions for characters come true in their sheer laziness to slow down and write organic character development.

There were even hints of this problem before 3B-S7 that I was seeing potential for in 2B. OUAT could have gone strong for longer than two to three ish seasons if A&E and these writers had slowed down from 2B, not gotten obsessed with Hook, not gone to Neverland, and not gotten so obsessed with the next big, bizarre, and contrived magical PLOT twist or macguffin that, oftentimes inorganically forced their characters to 180 regress in ways that made no sense for moments of “HOLY SHIT! WTF JUST HAPPENED?”

I have no problem with characters regressing when it’s done organically, slowly, relatably, and realistically. The problem with OUAT was that they used inorganic contrivances to push them back-and-forth between increasingly bizarre extremes that made no sense, rather than focusing on human or realistic motivations to get them from point A to point C organically. It felt fake, and it felt forced. I know it was fiction, but it felt like lazily badly written fiction when the characters swung back-and-forth by the writers playing God with them on the strings of their asinine PLOT twists inorganically.

It had gotten beyond exhausting trying to invest in a show run by petty hacks who were never going to allow their audience’s common sense and intelligence lead them through an organic path of growth for these characters with the writers dangling the carrot in front of them for a story that actually could make sense, and then abruptly, cruelly, and inorganically yanking it away from them with an absurd twist because they were too lazy to come up with any more ideas for organic character growth after 3A.

Let’s talk about Hook and CS becoming such a main focus on this show, and the romantic male lead/couple.” It’s not that Hook couldn’t have been organically developed into a sympathetic character worthy of redemption in his own right. A&E couldn’t write that, though. He also didn’t fit together with the ensemble main cast in the place of Nealfire as Emma’s main love interest. He and Emma had absolutely no chemistry. Hook’s sudden interest in her was bizarre and creepy.

Then, they killed off Nealfire through absurd means for Hook to take his place in the picture where he didn’t fit in the family circle, so they could have CS. They broke their own rules to bring Rumple back from the dead to turn him into the wildly OOC on-and-off-again “big bad” scapegoat cartoonish villain PLOT twister “foil” to Hook, even after having been given two-and-a-half seasons of the most well-written and well-earned sympathetic reforming anti-villain/tragic hero backstory and redemption arc from S1-3A. They destroyed Emma’s, Belle’s, Snow’s, David’s, and even Henry’s original sympathetic characterizations by obliterating their self-respect, intelligence, self-awareness, and moral integrity, so that they could inorganically force this bullshit narrative of Hook/CS being the “best hero” ever in a world of now meaningless, shallow, and simplistic black versus white hypocritical morality that Nealfire and the common goal of family balanced out with a sense of realism, common sense, organic growth and emotional depth that got lost with his death in favor of contradictory character destroying magical PLOT-twist driven Drama™️ soap opera “hero versus villain” fuckery and Hook/CS.

No wonder they lost more and more viewers as every season passed…Getting emotionally invested was no fun when the writers deliberately pulled the rug out from underneath your favorite characters whenever things started to seem making sense by totally ruining it with some bizarre magical contrivance or characterization that doesn’t add up to what we were shown before, and your logical predictions for stories that made organic and consistent sense for character growth were mocked by these writers because they refused to slow down and develop the characters after S1-3A. You were punished for being smart and using common sense, and that’s why most of these main characters’ credibility and integrity got completely destroyed in one way or another by this very lazy, petty and unfair bad writing technique of theirs that made them mostly feel like pod!people after just the first two-and-a-half seasons of the series.

tldr; You could only suspend your disbelief by turning off your brain to disregard the bullshit writing choices on OUAT and just blindly enjoy the show by getting invested in the characters for so long as written in canon without asking any questions before the writing became too infuriatingly repetitive, too contrived, too OOC, too character assassinating, and too stupid to believe. Also, Captain Fuckboy ruined the show after 3A, and he should have died and stayed dead back in early S2. It could have been different if A&E were good writers who could come up with organic character growth, and not shoehorned him in as Emma’s love interest in a way that ruined the whole show’s dynamic and sense of emotional depth by replacing Nealfire with him.

Nealfire’s death was the metaphorical death of the show’s canon, though. My personal headcanon was that the real show ended with “Going Home” (3x11) because that’s the last time there was any sort of compelling, consistent, organic, realistic, or relatable characterization or growth. After that, it all went to hell (literally), and I had to finally quit watching after S5 to preserve my sanity before anything got any worse, and on this show, it only would because A&E and these writers never learned.

My favorite characters were Rumple, Belle, Emma, and Nealfire. Once Nealfire got killed off though, their characterizations and their relationships, as well as everyone else’s thereafter, went to total shit in canon. Adam and Eddy obviously couldn’t come up with any more than two-and-a-half seasons of organic or satisfying character growth for the original main cast, and it should have ended in 3x11, in my opinion. I’m pretty sure that Damon Lindlelof helped them out with the writing a lot for the first two-and-a-half seasons, which is why the story is at least coherent enough to be enjoyable up to 3x11.

But after 3A, Lindlelof’s plans for the show were butchered, Kitsowitz completely took over the show with Captain Fuckboy, PLOT, and making money their main focuses, so they kept it on air for the next four-and-a-half seasons not knowing what else to do now that they had run out of new story. Thus, it got to the point where it essentially devolved into such badly written crack!fic soap opera on screen by the end of 5A where the writing for everyone’s characterization had become so unbelievably OOC, annoyingly self-contradictory, changeable, hypocritical, illogical, melodramatically problematic, and toxic in favor of the PLOT that I had to quit to preserve my sanity.

I enjoyed reading Rumbelle fanfic moreso than the actual show because it made sense and felt more satisfying, well-written, in-character, and entertaining than the nonsensical toxic garbage the show had devolved into.

After 5A, Eddy Kitsis said in an interview that he thought “good storytelling” was making sure the audience goes “WTF? This makes absolutely no sense! This isn’t fair! This totally contradicts everything that I was shown before, and feels too stupid, too contrived, and too OOC to even believe possible.”

It wasn’t worth getting emotionally or mentally invested in this show or any of the remaining characters as written in canon anymore post 3A because A&E and these writers formula kept becoming more and more of “We’re doing our jobs if we can trick our audience after deliberately teasing them by dangling the carrot of organic growth of character that we’re too lazy to follow through on by yanking it away from them as soon as they start making logical predictions abruptly, cruelly and inorganically with constant twist of ’HOLY SHIT, CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT JUST HAPPENED?”

When Eddy basically said that at the end of 5A, I realized I was done with having any hope for this show, and I decided to finally quit watching after 5B because I knew every time something started to seem to make sense and go in a direction of organic growth for the characters, A&E and these writers would deliberately pull the rug out from under them and their audience for trying to get invested in them with some inorganic contrivance that ruined everything in an unfair way that made no sense and never would make any sense in canon from what we were led to believe would happen beforehand on this show by them because that was the whole point: A&E and these writers so often didn’t want you to make sense of their show because they were lazy hacks who didn’t know how to write a cohesive plot or organic character growth/realistic characterization after 3A.

They admitted that they liked whiplashing their audience for using common sense and logic in regards to fans whenever the story and the characters would seem to be potentially headed in a way that would make sense. They considered that “genuis” storytelling with their overinflated egos, rather than just very cruel, mean, lazy, and low bad writing that ultimately destroyed most of their main characters’ credibility and their fans willingness to stay emotionally invested in their canon show that the creators/writers refused to let unfold organically in a way that made consistent sense long term.

Instead, they used a constant series of contrived magical macguffins and twists of “WTF just happened? This makes no damned sense from what was just previously established on screen, and does not at all relate to it! This is unbelievably absurd! The characters would never do or say this shit in real life!”

It destroyed the credibility of most of their characters’ in canon and their fans willingness to stay emotionally invested in their show, and it was insulting, especially when you had showrunners like Eddy Kitsis admitting to the fans “As always with this show, once the audience gets onto what we’re doing, we have to change it.”

When they said “We hope things will be ‘fun’” for the character assassinating, wildly OOC, nonsensical, and melodramatic garbage writing of 6A for Rumbelle with the Morfetus bs twist or in 5A of the Dark Swan arc, they didn’t mean that we would necessarily be legitimately entertained as an audience when they threw in a character destroying inorganic magical contrivance or bizarre twist out of nowhere that forced the characters into weird directions that made no sense from what had been previously established.

Adam and Eddy meant that they would be having fun pissing those of us in their audience off by insulting our intelligence and common sense by constantly giving us inorganic contrivance of OOC characterizations, magical macguffins, and bizarre PLOT twists and contrivances that didn’t consistently, logically, and thus satisfyingly add up with what had been previously established, rather than entertaining us with organic character growth that made satisfactory sense by letting our predictions for characters come true in their sheer laziness to slow down and write organic character development.

There were even hints of this problem before 3B-S7 that I was seeing potential for in 2B. OUAT could have gone strong for longer than two to three ish seasons if A&E and these writers had slowed down from 2B, not gotten obsessed with Hook, not gone to Neverland, and not gotten so obsessed with the next big, bizarre, and contrived magical PLOT twist or macguffin that, oftentimes inorganically forced their characters to 180 regress in ways that made no sense for moments of “HOLY SHIT! WTF JUST HAPPENED?”

I have no problem with characters regressing when it’s done organically, slowly, relatably, and realistically. The problem with OUAT was that they used inorganic contrivances to push them back-and-forth between increasingly bizarre extremes that made no sense, rather than focusing on human or realistic motivations to get them from point A to point C organically. It felt fake, and it felt forced. I know it was fiction, but it felt like lazily badly written fiction when the characters swung back-and-forth by the writers playing God with them on the strings of their asinine PLOT twists inorganically.

It had gotten beyond exhausting trying to invest in a show run by petty hacks who were never going to allow their audience’s common sense and intelligence lead them through an organic path of growth for these characters with the writers dangling the carrot in front of them for a story that actually could make sense, and then abruptly, cruelly, and inorganically yanking it away from them with an absurd twist because they were too lazy to come up with any more ideas for organic character growth after 3A.

Let’s talk about Hook and CS becoming such a main focus on this show, and the romantic male lead/couple.” It’s not that Hook couldn’t have been organically developed into a sympathetic character worthy of redemption in his own right. A&E couldn’t write that, though. He also didn’t fit together with the ensemble main cast in the place of Nealfire as Emma’s main love interest. He and Emma had absolutely no chemistry. Hook’s sudden interest in her was bizarre and creepy.

Then, they killed off Nealfire through absurd means for Hook to take his place in the picture where he didn’t fit in the family circle, so they could have CS. They broke their own rules to bring Rumple back from the dead to turn him into the wildly OOC on-and-off-again “big bad” scapegoat cartoonish villain PLOT twister “foil” to Hook, even after having been given two-and-a-half seasons of the most well-written and well-earned sympathetic reforming anti-villain/tragic hero backstory and redemption arc from S1-3A. They destroyed Emma’s, Belle’s, Snow’s, David’s, and even Henry’s original sympathetic characterizations by obliterating their self-respect, intelligence, self-awareness, and moral integrity, so that they could inorganically force this bullshit narrative of Hook/CS being the “best hero” ever in a world of now meaningless, shallow, and simplistic black versus white hypocritical morality that Nealfire and the common goal of family balanced out with a sense of realism, common sense, organic growth and emotional depth that got lost with his death in favor of contradictory character destroying magical PLOT-twist driven Drama™️ soap opera “hero versus villain” fuckery and Hook/CS.

No wonder they lost more and more viewers as every season passed…Getting emotionally invested was no fun when the writers deliberately pulled the rug out from underneath your favorite characters whenever things started to seem making sense by totally ruining it with some bizarre magical contrivance or characterization that doesn’t add up to what we were shown before, and your logical predictions for stories that made organic and consistent sense for character growth were mocked by these writers because they refused to slow down and develop the characters after S1-3A. You were punished for being smart and using common sense, and that’s why most of these main characters’ credibility and integrity got completely destroyed in one way or another by this very lazy, petty and unfair bad writing technique of theirs that made them mostly feel like pod!people after just the first two-and-a-half seasons of the series.

tldr; You could only suspend your disbelief by turning off your brain to disregard the bullshit writing choices on OUAT and just blindly enjoy the show by getting invested in the characters for so long as written in canon without asking any questions before the writing became too infuriatingly repetitive, too contrived, too OOC, too character assassinating, and too stupid to believe. Also, Captain Fuckboy ruined the show after 3A, and he should have died and stayed dead back in early S2. It could have been different if A&E were good writers who could come up with organic character growth, and not shoehorned him in as Emma’s love interest in a way that ruined the whole show’s dynamic and sense of emotional depth by replacing Nealfire with him.

Nealfire’s death was the metaphorical death of the show’s canon, though. My personal headcanon was that the real show ended with “Going Home” (3x11) because that’s the last time there was any sort of compelling, consistent, organic, realistic, or relatable characterization or growth. After that, it all went to hell (literally), and I had to finally quit watching after S5 to preserve my sanity before anything got any worse, and on this show, it only would because A&E and these writers never learned.

So yeah, it’s not a strange thought to associate you with those people and to be tired of having those rants show up everywhere on posts or gif sets. How many anti tags are you using? How many snide remarks have you made against the fandom/fans? It’s ALL you talk about. Not difficult to take you for a “hater”. Most people are just having fun here on tumblr and here you all are, pointing fingers and calling out people..

Nonny, you guys are the ones who can’t accept canonical evidence right in your face that Obi Wan and the Jedi before Luke were deeply flawed. Using those adjectives of abusive, arrogant, corrupt, cowardly, morally hypocritical, violent, and vindictive, are not wrong. They lost their way because they became too afraid to take a risk to do the right thing under pressure. They became too arrogant to admit they could be wrong. Granted, so did Anakin after a while, particularly after going dark, but the fandom and the narrative doesn’t try to pretend like it was ever okay whenever he did fucked up stuff, regardless of the shitty circumstances and his “greater good” justifications.

You guys are the ones defending child abuse, child conscription for warfare and politics, cultism, slavery, and war crimes on the part of the Jedi just because they said it was all about “protecting the greater good.”

At least, I’m tagging my posts that are making legitimate canon criticisms as “anti Jedi apologists/apologism,” “Obi Wan critical,” “Yoda critical,” “Jedi order critical,” and “Jedi Council critical” of the Jedi Council, Jedi Order, Obi Wan, Yoda, and Jedi apologists to try to stay out of your lane. You guys don’t tag your posts as “Anti Anakin Skywalker” when you call him “an evil spawn of Satan who was always destined for evil,” blame him for his own grooming by saying he fell for Palpatine, even before learning he was a Sith Lord as a child because he was an “entitled, narcissistic, and ungrateful brat” in regards to Obi Wan, Yoda, and the Jedi Council, who hated them because they told him what to do. Please, they openly treated him like garbage more often than not, let him talk to to Palpatine alone when he was a child under their care, and then blamed Anakin for growing close to him when enabling that relationship was no longer convenient for their own benefits.

Yoda was essentially running the Jedi Order like a cult. He kept insisting his members answer to a Republic that they all knew was a corrupt and hypocritical government, which only protected the upper class elite on the planets in the inner rims of the galaxy under their control, in spite of claiming to “fight for democracy and peace.”

Anakin Skywalker can still be held accountable for his crimes and character flaws as an adult because he still ultimately had enough self-awareness of right vs wrong, in spite of eventually becoming emotionally/mentally unstable, going through a lifetime of abuse, emotional/psychological conditioning for warfare and slavery, and oppression.

However, when I try to hold accountable adults in the Jedi Order for the systematic abuse, crimes, elitism, oppression, manipulation, war, and violence they knowingly enabled and committed because it made it easier for them to hold onto control and fit in for security under pressure when the odds were against them, it’s suddenly “not their fault at all.” Let’s remember that Yoda was the leader of the Jedi Order for over eight centuries, and he had made the decision to follow a corrupt Republic government, so he could pressure them to give his organization the legal rights to more or less abduct force sensitive children from their families for his “greater good” in exchange for protecting them. The adults involved were not innocent victims, especially not the members on the high Council who held the most privilege of authority to change things for the better, but still didn’t.

We got a morally gray tale in which the Jedi before Luke, while well-meaning, had become seriously flawed in his dad’s time, and Yoda and Obi-Wan were even showing signs of that corruption in the OT series, too, but you guys keep willfully overlooking that. It’s “Obi Wan was such a tragic hero, who was too nice to Anakin, and could have saved Anakin if the boy weren’t such an ungrateful brat.”

Sure…Obi-Wan was such a great guardian/mentor. He never was an abusive, cowardly, deceitful, emotionally negligent, hypocritical, manipulative, self-righteous, low-key vindictive, and petty jerkass, who spent the majority of his life ass-kissing Yoda, even when it came at the cost of

Sure…Obi Wan and Yoda suffered so much living in hiding on Tattooine for 23 years, wallowing in self-pity after inadvertently helping fuck up Anakin and the fall of their own Order with their cowardice and hypocrisy, while their former apprentice helped terrorize and/or murder the galaxy of remaining Jedi survivors, friends, and other innocent citizens as Sidious’s murder servant/attack dog. It totally was not fucked up to deliberately deceive, endanger, and manipulate their former apprentice’s estranged and innocent son to finish him off for them because they were too afraid to face the consequences of the mess they helped create with his father in the first place by repeatedly pushing him away with their extremist system’s methods and practices that they still refuse to fully accept were deeply toxic and hypocritical, regardless of their intentions…🙄🙄🙄

Let’s just ignore the fact that, at least in public as Darth Vader in the suit, Anakin became more like the “ideal” duty bound and stone cold warrior “for the greater good” of enforcing and maintaining order and security in the Empire for himself and his men that Yoda and Jedi Council Obi Wan kept insisting he be more like before he turned to the dark side. Let’s ignore the fact that the abusive, arrogant, controlling, elitist, hypocritical, and oppressive systematic practices and teachings of a corrupt Jedi Order are partially responsible for influencing the birth of monsters, who are able convince themselves they are fighting for the “greater good,” from their own organization, in the first place…🙄🙄🙄

Sure…For his crimes, Anakin deserved to be left to inhumanely burn alive in agony by the “peaceful” Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar, and get trapped with an even worse master from whom viable escape was limited to nonexistent. Obi-Wan totally deserved a father of the year award for cutting off Anakin’s limbs when he got the high ground in their duel, only to rant at him and watch him suffer in agony when he caught on fire, rather than just putting him out of his misery when he got the upper hand on Mustafar instead….🙄🙄🙄

Technically, the Sith are still the greater of two evils, but I don’t understand how so many fans can pretend like the adults running and participating in the Jedi Order were these blameless victims either. Yoda and Obi-Wan have a lot of nerve to act like Anakin and other members turning on them is this completely unexpected and unfair thing when their council pressured the Republic to give their organization the legal rights to get away with abducting babies and children from their friends and families forever to train them and use them as soldiers for active combat, police duty, and war by offering their protection in exchange.

The worst part is that they don’t even seem to feel guilty trying to use Luke to clean up a mess they helped create with his estranged biological father, the Empire, and the Sith before he was even born nearly twenty years earlier.

btw i am asking what she is in your mind!! not the fachs of who's played her