It is said that, God is omnibenevolent (everything God does is good), omnipresent (Present everywhere at the same time, all knowing), and omnipotence (all powerful). So if this is true, god created the game (life) knowing the results of all that would happen before heād even made anything. Then the idea that god gives us free will, doesnāt fit in for, If god created the environment, the people Adam and Eve, their nature, the way their minds work, basically everything. Then also created Lucifer, knowing full well he would rebel and have power given to him by god to influence godās creations (people, not animals, which is also a curious thing). It is said by some, god made Lucifer to give us options to choose from, which feeds into giving us free will, to choose good or evil. But reality isnāt so black and white, itās often more complex the things that happen and the choices we make. But putting that aside god created Adam Eve and Lucifer, he set up the game and knew how it would play out, if this is true how can he be omibenevolent? He knew they would eat from the tree and he knew he would punish them for it. If most people now recognize evolution is part of how we came to be, then this story of adam and eve is not at all a feasible reality, so now it is claimed by some as a metaphor. But even as a metaphor the set up is the same, looking at it I would conclude that godās action was original sin, not adam and eve as they are only acting on their intrinsic nature and environment they were given by god. (Also what is this about? Quote Daniel 4:35 35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, āWhat have you done?ā Isaiah 14:26 26 This is the plan determined for the whole world; this is the hand stretched out over all nations 27 For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?) Now much time goes by before god throws the bible our way (400 YEARS BETWEEN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS), and when he does, he does it all from the one local, the Middle East. I guess thatās not so odd, since its obvious god did like playing favourites (the Jews, Moses, Lot, etc). Now what was the purpose of any of that, if god knew his important messages where going to be corrupted, misinterpreted, and then one day looked upon by people with reason and logic, knowledge and intelligence, whom point out all its flaws and straight forward errors. If this was of such importance, that god wanted people to know of him and such that he went to the trouble of telling people to write it. It would not infringe on peoples free will to write it himself and either use his omniscience to have trust worthy people hold on to it and spread it round for him and possibly as added insurance he could have made the book indestructible, non perishableā¦but still able to be dated by modern scientific methods, and unalterable. People could still make their own copies of the bible with alteration, but the original would still exist, and with its god given powers people could not argue it not to be the original true book. Doing this does not interfere with peopleās free will; it just insures god gets his untainted message to the world. Also being omniscient, heād see that the bible is even a cause of debate amongst those that believe in it, that analysis and interpretation differs from one person to the next. But nope all knowing god picks people to write bits out for him over time, and over this time god proceeds to take many actions that I would regard as infringing upon their free willā¦such as killing them. For example, Noah and the flood tale, again even if this is a metaphor, what is it saying? If some of you piss off god heāll elect one guy and his family and a 1 male and 1 female of every species of animal on the planet to live, while everything and everyone else are dead dead deadski. I have a somewhat simplistic childrenās bible, I was given by the church we attended when I was young. The Noah tale is explained and it states āgod took care of Noah and his family and the animals in the boat. God takes care of you, too.ā This is pretty amusing to me now, thinking if I had been born in the time when this happened, god wouldnāt have taken care of me, he would have drowned me. Sodom and Gomorrah, god destroys and kills the whole inhabitancy, lets Lot and his family get out first, telling them not to look back, Lotās wife doesā¦bam⦠Turns her to a pillar of salt⦠mmm k? So the message is be gods slave, do as he commands or he will mess you up? Donāt use that brain he gave you for anything more than loving and obeying himā¦but he wants us to have free will and make our own decisions, cause he is just so omnibenevolent. Watch darkmatter 2525 vids on youtube they will enlighten u, for example give this a look ⦠https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6DnujiVCwo&list=UULhtZqdkjshgq8TqwIjMdCQ&index=8 How does this sound⦠a creeper kidnaps some kids, puts them in his basement. The creeper tells them he loves them and will look after them, if they trust him and do all he tells them to do. Some of the kids cry and say they want to go home to their parents, the creeper says with free will you can go if you choose to do so, but I must warn you, if you do not stay here with me then you will be punished in a terrible place of tortures, suffering pain, fire burning the flesh from your bones forever and ever. This scares some of the kids into staying, some do leave though, and as they make it to their home they trigger a bomb, which the creeper rigged up in case any of them did leave him. The ones that stayed were reminded they have free will to choose to disobey his orders but they would be punished for doing so. Getting back to the bibleā¦So god knowingly let people screw up his āperfect preachmentā of story and laws, and then let this book be used in his name as justification of actions made by man for some 400 years, apparently. Before revising and getting once again the very āreliableā people, to write out a new portion of his book. Being omniscient he knew all along that people would disobey him, before he even made anything. But rather than asserting forgiveness for such at the beginning, suddenly he, as if it was a decision based upon observation, not a plan as part of knowing all. He irrespective of Maryās āfree willā choice impregnates her with his son that is actually himself in human form. Then rather than simply forgiving, he claims that by letting himself be tortured and killed he can then forgive peoples sin from that point on ward. This is supposed to be the ultimate sacrifice, but what exactly is so great about it? Jesus dies for our sins, but can come back whenever he likes, and is in fact god, the all powerful. Sacrifice implies giving something up, which god did not do with this twisted exercise. Also what exactly is this implying? That we donāt have to be responsible for and make amenās in some way for our sins, because Jesus took one for the team, so to speak, the act of martyring himself means he can now blanket forgive all the sin in the world? We donāt believe that though, do we, people still have to be held accountable, and people still have to repent asking god for forgiveness⦠so what was the point really, I donāt get it at all. What about permitting slavery? God is giving people his permission to own others and beat them, omnibenevolent?ā¦I fail to see how that is a good thing. Quote However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) And⦠If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, āI love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.ā If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT) And⦠When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girlās owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) And⦠When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) And⦠Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT) The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. āBut people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.ā (Luke 12:47-48 NLT) Quote Read more: http://www.city-dataā¦l#ixzz1z41zPkIW Quote: āI do admit that much of the basis for my atheism is not just based on the complete lack of evidence that there is a God but itās also based on the contradictions that the Bible is filled with. If the Old Testament has somehow become discredited due to the enlightenment of Jesus then why not just disregard it completely and remove it from the Bible as the people did at one point in history when they decided which books to include and which ones to exclude in the Bible in the first place? My belief is that rape under any circumstances is cruel and immoral and I donāt need a directive from a God to make my decision for me.ā I myself feel the same as what the above quote states. But I would add that, if we mere mortals were and would be the decision makers of what the content of the bible is and what should be removed or disregarded. If we pick and choose what to follow from the bible, why is it held by so many as the ultimate authoritative source and absolute true word of god? What is the justification from believing one part to the next? Quote Rape in the bible: Deuteronomy 20:13-14 ā13 And When the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: 14But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies which the Lord thy God hath given thee.ā Deuteronomy 22:28-29 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damselās father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Deuteronomy 22:24 24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbourās wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. If a man rapes an engaged virgin who doesnāt cry loud enough to draw attention, the community should consider the attack consensual if it took place within the city. Thus, the āwhoreā must be stoned to death per Godās instructions. It obviously doesnāt matter if the woman is threatened or too frightened to scream because the law obviously makes no such exceptions. The man will be stoned to death as well, but not because he committed a brutal atrocity against the woman, but only because he āhath humbled his neighbourās wifeā (Deuteronomy 22:24). Note the shamefully sharp contrast in disciplinary action between raping a woman with a husband and raping a woman without a husband: death versus a pound of silver. Since itās all the same to the woman, it now becomes clear that God feels the husband is the one who is the victim of the attack. Deuteronomy 21:10-14 10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; 12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; 13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. 14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her. The New Testament neglects to address rape in an unobscured straight forward manner. Plus⦠there is this: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. and Sermon on the Mount, he paused to stress the truth that the Old Testament laws have not passed away Matthew 5:17-18, āThink not that I came to abolish the law, or the prophets: I came not to abolish, but to fulfil. For verily I say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away from the law, until all be fulfilled.ā and even if he had not said that, Jesus is supposed to be god in human form, why like jesus and say he abolished the old testament, like heās better than the god you believe in, that made the laws of the old testament in the first placeā¦that is actually jesus anyway? If you realise the old testament was evil crap, but think the new testament was perfection, your saying the god you believe in made a mistake in what was in that old thing. and even if jesus had said the old was no longer relevant he was still apparently cool with slavery Quote Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT) In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didnāt know they were doing anything wrong. The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. āBut people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.ā (Luke 12:47-48 NLT) I know I am stupid in a lot of ways, act on things that make no sense, Iām constantly illogical, but yet I am really really intensely disturbed by religious beliefs that infringe on others rights and on kids development, sexual feelings an learning about the world etc etc I could go on and on />/> From an empathetic stand point, I can see why people feel better within their lives to think there is a powerful loving thing that knows them, loves them, watches out for them, listens to them and answers their prayers. Because life and death, being still a great mystery to us, it is scary in a lot of ways to not have answers. What I donāt get, and what scares me is that: People do some really wacked out things in the name of their religions e.g. suicide bombers, bullying, war, trying to impose their beliefs on everyone, expecting their beliefs to be taught in schools as facts, oppressing and assigning guilt to people for their sexuality, telling people not to practice safe sex or use birth control of any sort, advocating abstinence and when priests.. preachers..Whomever rape kidsā¦Rather than do anything about itā¦they ignore or try to hide that itās happenedā¦because they think their religionās reputation is more important than protecting innocent kids, sexismā¦perpetuating ideals that women are less than men, trying to stem scientific progress, promoting ideas in people that theyāre wicked evil etc no matter whatā¦that their only salvation is being a slaveā¦and adhering to a blind faith mentality etc etc. And that some people donāt even know what it is they are believing in and donāt really want to know in case they find it doesnāt make sense or they donāt like it, but irrespective of this are unapologetic at fervently claiming their religion as authoritative on all matters. As for the bible, actually looking at it, to me it is plainly evident that people have created a romanticised view of what they think their god is like, but on paper I would in my opinion say god of the bible is a wicked tyrant and I canāt understand why people would wonāt any of it to be true. It scares me that this world is full of people so easily susceptible to taking up a belief in these things, either by being taught to as children, or as adults seeking out a meaning for their lives and life in general. Knowing these things, I just feel really lost and sad, Iām not sure what to do about it all really, as I understand there are ways in which peoples beliefs can be fairly benign, but there is so many other ways in which they hurt people and society. I donāt want to hurt people either and in knowing how tight people hold their beliefs and the comfort that affords them, I feel conflicted on where I should stand, what actions I should take? Iām trying to figure it outā¦and trying to find more patients when discussing these issues.