danny

Yunho: (unprompted) My Mingi *resolutely pointing at an oblivious Mingi*

Source: yameraren_ooo

HD version of, and I quote OP, "Yunho’s smug face when he’s showing Atinys that Mingi belongs to himㅋㅋㅋ"

Okay @thirstkanaphan. You win.

Let's talk about "Youth."

Here comes the obligatory Luke disclaimer that one day I might not put at the start of every post. This time it feels important to say for...reasons. As in -

I should probably acknowledge formally that Yunho and Mingi are my ult biases. Look, I don't know how it happened either.

Neither of them are my normal "type" when it comes to the rest of my biases either. I normally have a thing for leaders. Name a group, I can guarantee you my bias will be the leader. It's kind of embarrassing at this point. (I'm sure that says something about my personality as a whole, but that's not what this post is for, okay?)

But here we are. Trust me, Hongjoong has tried, and most likely will continue to do so. Who knows what 2026 will bring?

(Update as of 12.26: Yeah. Alright Hongjoong, I'll write about you soon. Fine, you've forced my hand).

But, yeah. Yunho and Mingi. Those are my guys. Pretty sure I'm stuck with them at this point.

It's also pretty clear, at least based on the way I write about them, that I feel different ways about them. For instance...

Mingi makes me grin like a stupid idiot at my phone. I love Mingi's creativity and spontaneity, his skill and determination. He makes me laugh the hardest whenever I'm watching any of their content. I have such feelings of genuine pride when I watch his work, (see the "ROAR" breakdown). In regards to his onstage energy....let's just say it comes off as bratty more than anything else, at least to me. And, let's just say I....probably shouldn't talk about how that makes me feel online.

Meanwhile.

Yunho haunts me. I am plagued by visions of him during any waking moment of the day. I once described biasing Yunho as feeling like a Richard Siken poem on shrooms. In other words, feral, and out of my body with longing to the point that it feels a little disgusting. Like something caught, lurking under my skin.

So. I'm weird about them. I'm really weird and really gay about them. I have accepted this.

But it's not my fault totally, because oh my god guys. They're so....well. I mean. Have you heard "Youth"? HAVE YOU WATCHED THE "YOUTH" MUSIC VIDEO?

(Oh, I know many of you have watched at least ONE performance video of "Youth." Yeah. That one. Yeah, we're gonna talk about it a little, don't worry).

LET US DISCUSS!

The Towards the Light tour is so deeply important to me because of its bombastic audacity to make big choices. I've talked at length about those choices, whether that be in my "Wake Up" post or my "Arriba" post. I've broken down the complex sequences, taken notes on slowed down recordings of grainy quality. I've praised whoever did the lighting to the moon and back at this point. It all comes down to the same thing, the same thing I emphasize over and over again. An unending commitment to storytelling.

So what story is "Youth" telling?

Well.

It's complicated.

See, the lighting for "Youth" is crazy because it breaks so many of the rules I’ve told you all about for lighting design for concerts, yet it does so with such grace and elegance that I weep every time I see it. It does this because the story of "Youth" is so deeply personal, so deeply known by its two members, so it has to think before it acts.

It is circular, and by that I mean, "Youth" starts us out at one place and we return to that same place by the end of the song. Changed, sure, but still ultimately the same people. If you recall my "Wake Up" post, I mentioned that the purpose of a song in a musical, or even in a concert, is moving forward through the story, or the emotion, or the song. Youth doesn't do that. It noticeably doesn't do that.

And you got that from the lighting, Luke?

Yeah.

Remember, I'm what some might call a huge fucking nerd.

Let's break it down.

See, the first thing that's a big deal about Youth that we have to talk about is genre. Genre of lighting design. It's easier to explain this by looking at the other unit songs, and what they do differently. For instance, "Youth" stands apart because...

It cannot leap onto the battlefield like "MATZ" does. If you look at the lighting design of "MATZ," like here...

"MATZ" is all reds and oranges with touches of green here and there. "MATZ" is red and oranges and flames. "MATZ" is on fire, they are dangerous. It's all there in the lyrics, and the lighting commits to that feeling. They are, noticeably, the only unit that primarily utilizes warm colors, with accents of purple as necessary.

It cannot slink in the shadows like "IT's You." If you look at the lighting design of "IT's You," like here...

"IT's You" is all ice blue and lasers and hyper-techno influences. Never before have I seen a number so committed to its lighting resembling a gay club at 2am. Once again, it's all there in the lyrics. I should not need to explain whatever the hell Woosansang have going on. (Honestly, I'm more of the mindset of "Good for them." They deserve whatever they've got going on).

It cannot sweep your legs out from under you, like "Everything." (At least, not in the same way. More on that later). If you look at the lighting design of Everything, like here...

"Everything" is Jongho's vocals and his undeniable stage presence. "Everything" lights him like a god because his vocals beg you to do so. Look at him go. Look at that staircase they constructed specifically so he looks like a prince at the top of castle. Once again, it's all in the song.

"Youth" is different. Whereas "MATZ," "IT's You," and "Everything" exist in completely different lighting genres, they all live within the realm of concert lighting. "Youth"...

"Youth" starts like this.

God, okay there's so much to explain already.

Firstly, this telephone booth. This telephone booth kills me for so many reasons. Of course, there is the obvious one, that Yunho and Mingi relived the conversation that marked such a powerful turning point in their lives every performance. But, the nerd in me is screaming because this is a custom made practical.

Practicals, in lighting design, are lighting sources that are visible as a part of the diagetic narrative of the story. Without trailing down a long path about diagesis and musical theatre, let's just say that a practical is a lighting instrument that is canon to the world of the performance. In Phantom of the Opera, when the chandelier flies down over the audience and into place for the opera, that chandelier is a practical. It lives within the canon of the world. The same goes for this telephone booth.

This telephone booth actually contains three practicals, namely the neon "TELEPHONE" sign, and the two oblong rectangle lights mounted in the frame. All of these are painstakingly wired and powered by something like a car battery hidden in the construction of the booth. They are most likely controlled by a wireless data system, or at least that's what I would do if I was building it. In other words, somewhere in this booth is a little radio signal that transmits whether or not the lights should be on to the lighting board. This all takes time, and trial and error, especially when you're building something like this to withstand being toured from city to city.

What does this mean to the overall performance beyond just being a well constructed set piece?

Essentially, the inclusion of this phone call at the beginning of the performance defines the entire tone of this song as a reflection on this one memory Yunho and Mingi share, before everything changed in their entire lives. In other words, this is a memory play.

Memory play is a genre of theatre, arguably coined by Tennessee Williams, wherein our point-of-view character acts as our narrator through past events of their life, often through a highly subjective and often conflicted lens. Its a distorted and convoluted type of theatre, often very easily misunderstood. Glass Menagerie is a really good example. I would argue that The Great Gatsby only works when it's adapted as one.

This is what I mean when I say the lighting from "Youth" is in a completely different genre. We're lighting "Youth" like it's a memory play. Let's look at the beginning again.

Look at our reliance on fog, on the heavy blanket of it that covers the stage and smears the deck. We do not see Yunho and Mingi walk the ground in this opening, in our minds they might as well be floating. Look at our key light, (aka our main light that mimics our real world lighting reference). Never before have I seen a more direct attempt at the natural cool blue of moonlight in an ATEEZ performance. It even follows the other lighting principle, of employing the reflections of the practicals, (aka our light sources that are cannon to our world), as the remaining sources of light. That's why we have this red aura around them for their phone call, it's a reflection of the telephone sign. It's theatre lighting, and it's memory play theatre lighting.

Now, you may be wondering, Luke, if this is a memory play, who is our protagonist?

I mean.

I don't even know if I have to explain it this much. It's Mingi. Of course it is.

This is Mingi's song that he wrote to and for Yunho. This is Mingi's most personal work after his return to ATEEZ. This is Mingi's reflection on what he thinks his youth meant. This is Mingi's memories, first and foremost. There's also the significance of blue being the primary color of the song, and that being such a prominent color for Mingi, beyond its practical use within the narrative of the performance.

So we start at the phone call, specifically, at least I think, Mingi's imagined memory of the phone call. That's why we don't see him, which is a strange take to have, but I can only imagine Yunho exists here almost as an imagination of what Yunho would look like on the other end of the line for Mingi. Mingi remembers and imagines what Yunho would look like, first and foremost.

And from that night, that phonecall, that memory, we bleed away into a broader scene, flickering in and out of Mingi's past, and his memories with Yunho. But what's complicated here, and what provides us with our emotional journey, is the way these memories and this duet unfolds. Basically, in rewatching the concert performance nine billion times for this breakdown, I noticed one very clear thing.

This is a duet with distance. They're always finishing each other's sentences. They're always dancing around each other. They're never fully together. They can't even make eye contact with each other.

Look, here at the top of the song..

Mingi is watching Yunho as he sings his first part, but Yunho is pointedly staring straight ahead. Like he can't even hear him.

It's noticeable when we get to Yunho's verse too.

BBTrippin are surrounding him, and Mingi is present, but not watching. Yunho is sheltered, separated. Like we're watching him through the cracks of something we're not quite supposed to see. This is what I mean by memory play, Yunho exists here as a refrain to the song, an echo of Mingi's memory.

Mingi, too, is separated. Once again,

when he pops back up again to continue the song, he, too, is surrounded by BBTrippin. Yunho is gone.

Now is probably also the time to point out that the physical look of the lighting for Yunho's portions, too, live outside of the canon that we've set up in the initial phone call. Yunho's section uses the audience blinders in slow waves, cascading the soft blues over his number. Yunho's scene comes without the waft of moonlight that Mingi returns too, that was in the initial scene. Mingi is lit with more variations of blue, mimicking the natural varieties of light, whereas Yunho is ethereal in the softer blue. Ghostlike. It's crazy.

Once again! We're looking at each other but we're not really looking at each other. Notice how Mingi is, once again, searching for Yunho in a wall of people, and coming up short.

(This is purely a selfish image because oh my lord look how good they look here. If you recall my Mingi post, I explained about how because Mingi is designed for the lighting positions of dance, you can literally have two lights, one centers on his hips and the other on his chest, and he looks fantastic. The same goes for Yunho by the way, they both look amazing with low side light. This is one of those moments and it makes me feel so giddy. Anyway. Gay sidenotes aside).

Because here we go. Conflict. The major break in the color scheme. It is incredibly important for me to emphasize to you that this is the only time in all of the unit numbers where the color scheme breaks this drastically. Even though "MATZ" does shift in color throughout the number (something something gay people), it doesn't have such a seismic break from its original color scheme of oranges and reds.

And I puzzled over this, because it happens when they start dancing together, in sync. This should be the thing that brings them together, except...

Except it's not. Because even though they're working in sync, they're still not communicating. I remind you of the fact that they have not made eye contact once yet during this number. In this choreograhy, they are synced but they are on opposite sides of a wall. They literally have walls up surrounding them.

It is also worth mentioning that we're pulling from the colors of their music video in a real way here, namely, the raging inferno of the house burning down.

Look at the warm oranges and golds here as Mingi stumbles around. With the fog on the ground, it almost looks like he's being burnt by the flames, as the orange echoes over the deck. Something is not right, (within our narrative, not during the performance), you can tell because look how Yunho is lit:

It feels, scattered is the best way to phrase it, like all of these thoughts are ramming into one another, but note how its scattered so purposefully. The oranges are still at the bottom and the top, the fire encircling but not quite burning to the center yet. Our blues are still here, and with the contrast of the warm oranges, they make Yunho feel even more ghostly, like a figure lit by candelight.

And then. Then we get one of my favorite sequences. I foreshadowed that I was going to talk about this part in my last post and here we go.

Okay, so Yunho's little dance solo bit here is an example of when what you're not supposed to do technically works out beautifully for you in terms of storytelling. Let me explain with this series of images I painstakingly went through to try and capture what I mean.

Okay, you might have looked through those and been like oh, cool, a spotlight moved over to him as he kneeled down to do his dance number and highlighted his hand reaching for the sky. Very nice, very good.

See, but the inside baseball here is that this is a live move, and at a critical point of the number. A live move is when our moving light makes a move with the light on throughout its entire movement. You may say, Luke, that happens all the time, right? And sure, it does in concerts. If you watch other ATEEZ numbers the lights are moving all over the place, they're blinding the audience, they're grooving to the beat.

But not in this one. Look through "Youth" again, and you will see a noticeable lack of movement, of effect patterns, of flashing. Sure, that's because it's a slower song, and sure, that's because it's emotional as all hell. But, and this is a bit of red string on a corkboard from me, it's also because this is the most theatrical lighting based in a genre where everything means something.

And in theatre, live moves are rare. We normally use a system called marking to purposefully limit them happening. They are a moment of fourth wall break, where the audience realizes that someone is trying to direct your attention so obviously. In other words, our narrator is trying to direct our attention to somewhere with such pinpoint accuracy, that we have to notice.

And in this case, what this live move means in the context of this song, is that Mingi had such a powerful memory of Yunho in this moment, in this section, that it literally broke apart everything else. I am saying that Mingi's memories of Yunho, Yunho's role in this moment, breaks through everything being on fire and burning up. Yunho saves Mingi. (This is literally what the lighting is telling you, I can't make this shit up).

And once he remembers this, reconciliation and returning to him happens almost immediately.

What am I talking about? I'm talking about this.

Their little duet, where finally, finally they're moving in sync. No walls. No backup dancers. Just them.

Still though, we're living in the world of memory. We're out of time now, moving through past and present, in nowhere and everywhere at the same time. Note how there are almost no lights on in this moment, just pools and prisms of spirals on the ground.

And then...after a few breathtaking moments.

Breakthrough.

It happens so quickly that it's hard to spot, but fortunately for you, this is the part where I cry so I had to point it out.

The wash of color, of blue, returns in a two-step process.

Yunho catches Mingi's hand, and causes a blast of light brighter and wider than anything else I've seen in this tour (other than maybe the end of "Wake Up"), explodes across them. It is timed perfectly when their hands touch. There is nothing else to say.

2. Yunho lifts Mingi up, and they finally, finally make eye contact. It's small, sure, and maybe there's an argument for Yunho not quite making it, but how else do you explain this brighter white blast of light. And, this is my personal interpretation, but I think this is us seeing Mingi as Yunho sees him. Note how he's backlit, and it's his first time being lit like Yunho. He's brighter than the sun. Once again, there is nothing else to say.

In the last section, after that one-two punch, they raise their hands in a triumphant clasp. And it happens so quickly that you can barely see it, but look at Mingi. Look at his smile. And we return, back to the blues.

And look! They're finally allowed to look at each other and see each other. This is, in my personal opinion, where we break out of the form of the memory play in totality because they are lit together and they are lit evenly. Yunho is not a ghost running rampant in Mingi's mind. Mingi is not the blinding sun, ever unachievable.

They are together again, as it should be. And they dance in the center, in sync. Sharing the blues together.

It's really no wonder that Mingi proposed at the end of that song. It's a rollercoaster in a lot of ways. I can only imagine living that every night, being rocketed through their past and their present, might make him ride that high into something deeply unplanned. Yet, I can't help but feel that the giddy release of emotion is the only way Mingi must be able to get through "Youth" without exploding every night.

This is all to say, that Yunho and Mingi and "Youth" as a whole, are defined by the memories they have of each other, and the memories that echo through their music. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the staging and lighting of this number live in those memories too.

Anyways. I leave you with my mother's reaction to me explaining Yunho and Mingi -

Me: So, Mingi wrote this song, basically for Yunho, and it's called "Youth," see, because they've known each other since they were in our middle school.

Her: Uhuh. And have they dated in that time they've known each other?

Me: I mean not that we know of. But. Their song is basically about them moving through hardship together, and finding the youth of their past in each other.

Her: That's really gay, Luke.

Me: I haven't even explained the proposal yet.

Her: THE PROPOSAL?

Thank you as always for reading. I love Yunho and Mingi.

Anon, I'm sorry to have lost your ask but your question came at the perfect time, because the recent logbook presented us with the perfect image to begin this conversation:

For those who don't know, Yunho and Seonghwa started filming a bunch of reels/tiktoks together early last year during the Europe tour and they became super popular. YunHwa remain a short-form content powerhouse, often enlisting other members like San into their shenanigans. Mingi can often found in the comments, whining about being left out (despite being featured in quite a few of their reels).

Mingi totally knows what he's doing, and I'm convinced Yunho is a co-conspirator in their drama. Under Yunho's posts, Mingi comments things like "ask permission first," "heart pounding," "whose are you," and "mine" ...

...to which Yunho would often respond coyly ("👍" " 😉") or in feigned confusion ("?"). It became a bit of a running joke in the fandom, because Yunho would shamelessly flirt in the comments for other member, but never under Mingi's posts. It was like they were partaking in some kind of kinky humiliation play and atiny was seated in the cuck chair.

While for some, Mingi's "jealousy" might seem worrisome, I actually think it shows how much Mingi has grown secure in his relationship with Yunho. He's being dramatic for the bit. What I find interesting is that this bit hinges on our (atiny's) knowledge and understanding of their relationship's history and trajectory.

We've come a long way from the incident where Mingi accused Yunho of betraying his moral loyalty because he filmed a reel with Wooyoung instead of him, as they had originally planned. I actually agree with @ffg7's take that Mingi's "crash out" has been misinterpreted by fans:

It is not jealousy, it is annoyance that his perceived partner in life (because that’s what they are at this point) does not recognize their bond.

Mingi’s stance is clear. He thinks that Yunho is betraying Yungi, the work unit. In a group as competitive as ateez, them being a duo is something that works for the both of them well enough. They have different niches. Filming together helps them both expand their audience, without necessarily clashing with each other. And yet Yunho had chosen to do a live with Wooyoung, who is less of an amplifier and more of an active competitor.

I previously speculated that Mingi has become less dependent on Yunho, and that's a good thing. It doesn't mean they care any less for each other; just watch any of their recent content to see how they tease and laugh with each other like they're still teenagers.

What i'm saying is, I bet Mingi knows how much we enjoy his performance of jealousy and possessiveness. By inserting himself into the comments, Mingi make himself the main character and succeeds in drawing our attention. He benefits, Yunho benefits by proxy (because YunGi), and I benefit because I'm an unrepentant fujo. Win-win-win!

On a more Mingi-focused note, I think in general Mingi expects a certain kind of reciprocation in his relationships that a person might not always anticipate or understand. In addition, Mingi himself might not always give back what he demands of others.

I think about the "drama" with Jongho over the summer, when Jongho declining a dinner invitation with Mingi but later going out with San. Mingi was upset and he made sure everyone knew about it, despite Jongho claiming it was a misunderstanding.

Jongho later turned the tables and told a story about a time when they were out to dinner and Mingi misbehaved, which becomes a larger discussion of Mingi's "selective loyalty."

To me, Mingi's selective loyalty is one way of navigating this "rough world." He might not always stick around, but he'll make sure your drinks are paid for. He has a code that's important to him and he'll enforce it, sometimes to unintentionally comedic effect.

Circling back to the original ask, Mingi may be the type to sulk in the comments of YunHwa' reels but he also totally ghosted Yunho on the Tyla dance challenge they planned to do together.

or, a little speculative non-fiction

[Reposted 11/28] I'm reposting because there were some great additions to my original meta that I responded to, and I thought it would be better to consolidate everything into one post!

"We have completely different point of views, even on a same topic. But surprisingly, Mingi and I tend to think a lot and there’s a serious side to us. So if there’s a topic thrown at us, he’s a friend who can talk about it all day. I think we are both like that.” 

In Episode 6 of Ateez+, Yunho and Mingi have a conversation that begins with Yunho asking:

“From your perspective, do you think I’ve changed? The other members, they think I’m the member who changed the least of all our members.” “I think you have changed.” “What part of me? I’ve been curious” “I think you’ve changed as you’ve become an adult. You were always careful back in the day as well, but I feel like you’ve become even more careful. Because you respond positively to most things, and because you tend to accommodate those around you, from an outside perspective people could say ‘Oh, Yunho is the same,’ but that pure and innocent side of you — I’m not sure how to say this — but I feel like we’ve become darker.”

What initially struck me in this exchange was the parallel to Yunho and Mingi's conversation in their Off The Record video several months ago, where Yunho said to Mingi:

"Since the first time we met, up until this point, seeing your growth and development....These days, that innocence? I wish I could see more of that happiness from you."

In both conversations, filmed only a handful of months apart, Mingi acknowledges innocence lost, but also something gained: wisdom, maturity, self-possession. Mingi wrote Youth to address the pain of being young and unhappy when everyone around you insists you're living the best years of your life. Growing up was the best thing that ever happened to him.

This perspective ties into the opening of Episode 6 of Ateez+ where Mingi shares the collective goals of the group for the next phase of their careers:

“Right now the eight of us are hoping to find a clear individual brand identity right now. We think that will help us last for a long time. Each member should know what we’re individually good at and as we brand those qualities, we can create a positive synergy in the group. I think that our goal is to stay and work together for a long time."

This echoes what Hongjoong said in a recent AP interview, on the topic of solo schedules — essentially, how they accommodate each other's "individual egos or individual dreams" within the ATEEZ framework. If that solo schedule is very important to that member, then the group will go ahead with it because, "that, too, is ATEEZ."

By the time they filmed Ateez+ (sometime in May, according to leaked photos from the set) Mingi had clearly taken this goal to heart: Calvin Klein modeling campaign, fashion week appearance with Off-White, two solo magazine covers, featured artist credit, self-produced solo track, and music production credits on a significant collaboration with Be:First. Not to mention multiple invitations to private events and solo schedules during their cb promotions.

Mingi's recent success is explicitly tied to his mental health journey, which fortified him with the toolkit to tackle challenges, both external and internal. He's grown beyond the limits others have placed on him, along with those he imposed on himself.

Meanwhile, Yunho, whose idol persona has long been associated with a Peter Pan-esque quality of eternal youth, was/is struggling to figure out his own individual brand identity. He addressed this in a recent interview with Marie Claire magazine (his first solo feature):

"These days, I really want to show a new side of myself."

Yunho's official role as Dance Leader and unofficial role as "happiness maker" have long put him in service to others, leading him to neglect his own personal development as an artist. This is something he's identified as wanting to change:

"People often say my lines are clean and my movements detailed, but these days, I've been focusing more on creating my own style of expression." "Just the fact that I have the desire to do better and to fulfill something real within me is already something to be grateful for. Some might call it greed, but I think it's worse not to desire anything at all."

For all that Yunho is very good at calibrating his idol persona to maximize fan attention and affection, he's lacked the "breakout" moment that other members have experienced, which catapulted them to new levels of fame and attention.

Yunho's solution was to manufacture a breakout moment for himself. He leveraged his network of actor friends from Imitation and landed a role in a short-form web comedy where he played a hapless office worker with unexpected martial arts skills; he recorded an OST for a popular airing tv show; and he starred in a dramatic short film that also doubled as iPhone spon, which led to him being invited to attend the launch of a new Apple product. He filmed a sexy mv for his solo Slide To Me. He probably did much of this before and during their filming of Ateez+.

He's letting himself be greedy, selfish, nakedly ambitious.

Yunho asks Mingi: "do you think I've changed?"

It's not mere KBS plot contrivance that had him seeking an honest answer from Mingi, who has only ever given him honesty. He'll flatter Yunho's looks to anyone who asks, but he won't offer false praise.

Mingi tells Yunho: the members may not be able to see it, but I do. You're becoming darker. You've always masked it with a pleasant smile and a cheerful attitude, but I know you better than everyone. I see the darkness, and I'm not afraid of it.

Of all the members, I think Yunho wanted and needed to have this conversation with Mingi. I can only speculate that when Yunho embarked on these solo schedules, he looked to Mingi as model of what a certain kind of success could look like. He maybe even asked Mingi for guidance. Maybe Mingi even gave him the same speech he gives us in Episode Two:

"Self-esteem will rise and fall. I think that's possible as you work. But it's not good to keep people that try to bring other people's self-esteem down and try to take other people down because of their jealousy and envy around you. The people that cut you down by telling you to improve on something in the name of giving advice is not necessarily someone that will be helpful in your life."

This is the kind of advice that is actually helpful to Yunho, who has always been a people-pleaser. Mingi tells Yunho that he can't just wait for someone to say he's cool, he needs to say that to himself.

As @throwing-roses-into-the-abyss observed, in these episodes, when Mingi gets fired up about a topic, Yunho simply listens and prompts him to say more. There is, of course, always a bit of teasing and some classic Yunho deflection, but Yunho seems to be absorbing the Mingi wisdom.

This is because Yunho knows that Mingi has surpassed him.

Mingi is running ahead, and seemingly doesn't require the same level of support or guidance that he previously sought from Yunho, or that Yunho offered him unsolicitedly.

This represents a significant shift in their usual dynamic, given their history. For a long time, from their pre-debut days and after Mingi's hiatus, Yunho has acted as a "savior-like entity" to Mingi (his own words). @ffg7 has written about the ways Yunho has attempted to live up to that moniker, perhaps at the expense of his own individual development ("Yunho as a First-Time Mom to His Clearly Distressed Friend").

To be clear, this was an act of love and care and Mingi takes it seriously. In that same Off The Record clip, Mingi names Yunho as the exception for his rule to "never rely on anyone"

"But Yunho calls me a lot ..and gave me a lot of strength...I think I [learned] what kindness and thankfulness is from you."

"Oh he can't live without me," Yunho once joked during their promotions for Wave and, frankly, I don't think Mingi wants to live without him! But this kind of relationship did create an interesting and sometimes awkward power imbalance, one that often put Mingi at a distinct social disadvantage when they were on camera.

This past year made it clear that Mingi does not need Yunho in the same way he did earlier in their careers. Mingi no longer needs Yunho to "explain" or interpret Mingi to others, not when Mingi has been sharper, funnier, and far more charismatic in their public appearances than ever before. Not when Mingi commands entire stadiums to bark for him, or when he gets entire swaths of uninterrupted and minimally-edited airtime on a KBS show to expound on his philosophy about life, business, and personal growth.

I think of the recent Allure interview where the members put him on the spot several times and he ends up "winning" those interactions with a mix of cleverness and sincerity. I can absolutely see where Yunho, who has always been the Mingi-explainer in the group, can now relinquish that role to someone like Hongjoong, who now prefaces every interview with "Mingi has a gimmick."

Here's where I really lean into some rpf-influenced speculation, because Yunho has clearly spent the last several months dealing with the revelation that things have changed. And his response has been...interesting.

I'm far from the only one who's observed a difference in Yunho's behavior towards Mingi since before the GH3 comeback. Essentially, he's been leaning hard into the fan service. We've heard more "princess" nicknames from him this year alone than in other years combined; he goes out of his way to acknowledge their wordless ability to communicate on stage. He was super playful and affectionate with Mingi on stage during the North American tour.

But while Yunho has been mostly sweet, he's still a little salty.

I remember finding this moment from Episode 2 fascinating. When the interviewer prompts Yunho about a time they fought about something, Yunho first claims he doesn't remember..

And then he references an incident from several years ago. And not just any incident, but the incident.

Here's Mingi's answer for the same prompt:

"In Yunho's case, when he apologizes first, he says something like 'Mingi, I'm sorry for getting mad this time. I'll do better from now on.' On the other hand, I'm more like this. 'I think I was wrong about this part this time, so I'll make sure not to do it again. But I also want you to be a little careful because I'm sensitive about it....I feel like I try my best not to do what he dislikes."

In comparison to Mingi, Yunho's answer comes off as particularly discordant. He basically calls Mingi jealous and possessive, implies an imbalance of affection, and then admits to using some soft manipulation to make Mingi feel responsible for his own hurt feelings. I think Yunho realizes in the moment that what he's saying could be misconstrued, so after a beat of silence he tacks this on:

Yunho later recalled another iconic moment for Mingi, when he tore open his shirt on stage during the Akaraka Festival at Yonsei University in a fit of passion. This was the second time Yunho brought up this incident, unsolicited, a year after the festival.

In one sense, you can read Yunho's behavior towards Mingi throughout this past comeback season as an attempt to re-establish their former dynamic, wherein Mingi's radical vulnerability and ungovernable sincerity towards Yunho (his "moral loyalty") was often met with Yunho's fond dismissal or awkward indulgence, and not always his reciprocation. And as for the fan-service, Yunho is well aware that YunGi the brand is stronger than Yunho the brand, so going viral during the cb and tour for being touchy and affectionate and playful is good business.

This is the more cynical reading, one that I wanted to include but not one I necessarily agree with. Because we often forget just how deep their friendship goes; just how hard they've worked to stay together and overcome their differences.

When I see their interactions, I see someone who wants his friend's attention. Someone who wants to stay close. Someone who wants to remain his friend's protector, even if Mingi can fight his own battles now.

look at how Yunho gently and instinctually goes to protect Mingi's broken finger 😭

In the final episode of Ateez+, Mingi and Yunho have a conversation about pursuing stability vs. pursuing risk. Mingi initially believed an idol career could make him enough money to protect his family, whereas Yunho wanted (craved?) the challenge and inherent danger of fame. Mingi admits he had nothing to lose in auditioning but you could make the argument that Yunho had a lot to lose. In their first few years, it ended up being that Mingi was more reckless and ambitious, while Yunho became safer and more conservative. Now it feels like they've reversed their positions: Mingi is so much more secure and confident, having systematically achieved his goals, but Yunho is now the one trying to regain the mindset that initially motivated him and challenge himself to try new things. 

AND YET! What I find so interesting in their exchange is how much Yunho tries to redirect the conversation to what he can be for Mingi, reiterating how much he worries about Mingi and how much he wants Mingi to talk to him freely. While Mingi has become so self-sufficient, Yunho is basically pleading with him to be a bit more dependent.

Yunho insists he’s saying these things sincerely and not for the cameras, and he wants to go on more dates like this and have more deep conversations, and not just when they’re struggling with something. However, Yunho clearly is (was?) seeking something from Mingi that he can't quite articulate. His vulnerability in this episode was so surprising. 

"When you're with me, you get more honest, right?" Yunho is a bit possessive over the ways that Mingi is different with him but he also uses this knowledge to (jokingly?) question Mingi's sincerity at the restaurant. 

Mingi is indeed aware that Yunho has been struggling: 

"Yunho probably has lots of worries. As ATEEZ'S Yunho and human Yunho, I think he's been worried a lot about how to realize his dreams. I feel worried for him.I feel sorry as i couldn't ask him earlier how could I help him. But I'm glad that we could share our thoughts now."

They are such compelling friends. They both want to help each other grow, but "growth" to them represents different things!

And then they give their closing remarks:

Yunho doesn't want to hold Mingi back, he just wants to catch up. They promised to keep running together.

The cherry on top is that when prompted to select their "dates" for the next season of Ateez+, Mingi picks Yunho without a second thought. Mingi's moral loyalty to Yunho is absolute and uncompromising. He knows exactly who he is and what he wants, and he'll always choose Yunho.

Jongho: "Wooyoung has no drinking habits when he is fully drunk"

Hongjoong: "Wooyoung does have drinking habits. He goes home -"

Yunho: "and he kisses a lot"

This reminded me of something I bookmarked a while back...

(dated to August 2025)

Yunho coming hot as the most kissed member in 2025 tracks...

or, a little speculative non-fiction

"We have completely different point of views, even on a same topic. But surprisingly, Mingi and I tend to think a lot and there’s a serious side to us. So if there’s a topic thrown at us, he’s a friend who can talk about it all day. I think we are both like that.” 

In Episode 6 of Ateez+, Yunho and Mingi have a conversation that begins with Yunho asking:

“From your perspective, do you think I’ve changed? The other members, they think I’m the member who changed the least of all our members.” “I think you have changed.” “What part of me? I’ve been curious” “I think you’ve changed as you’ve become an adult. You were always careful back in the day as well, but I feel like you’ve become even more careful. Because you respond positively to most things, and because you tent to accommodate those around you, from an outside perspective people could say ‘Oh, Yunho is the same,’ but that pure and innocent side of you — I’m not sure how to say this — but I feel like we’ve become darker.”

What initially struck me in this exchange was the parallel to Yunho and Mingi's conversation in their Off The Record video several months ago, where Yunho said to Mingi:

"Since the first time we met, up until this point, seeing your growth and development....These days, that innocence? I wish I could see more of that happiness from you."

In both conversations, filmed only a handful of months apart, Mingi acknowledges innocence lost, but also something gained: wisdom, maturity, self-possession. Mingi wrote Youth to address the pain of being young and unhappy when everyone around you insists you're living the best years of your life. Growing up was the best thing that ever happened to him.

This perspective ties into the opening of Episode 6 of Ateez+ where Mingi shares the collective goals of the group for the next phase of their careers:

“Right now the eight of us are hoping to find a clear individual brand identity right now. We think that will help us last for a long time. Each member should know what we’re individually good at and as we brand those qualities, we can create a positive synergy in the group. I think that our goal is to stay and work together for a long time."

This echoes what Hongjoong said in a recent AP interview, on the topic of solo schedules — essentially, how they accommodate each other's "individual egos or individual dreams" within the ATEEZ framework. If that solo schedule is very important to that member, then the group will go ahead with it because, "that, too, is ATEEZ."

By the time they filmed Ateez+ (sometime in May, according to leaked photos from the set) Mingi had clearly taken this goal to heart: Calvin Klein modeling campaign, fashion week appearance with Off-White, two solo magazine covers, featured artist credit, self-produced solo track, and music production credits on a significant collaboration with Be:First. Not to mention multiple invitations to private events and solo schedules during their cb promotions.

Mingi's recent success is explicitly tied to his mental health journey, which fortified him with the toolkit to tackle challenges, both external and internal. He's grown beyond the limits others have placed on him, along with those he imposed on himself.

Meanwhile, Yunho, whose idol persona has long been associated with a Peter Pan-esque quality of eternal youth, was/is struggling to figure out his own individual brand identity. He addressed this in a recent interview with Marie Claire magazine (his first solo feature):

"These days, I really want to show a new side of myself."

Yunho's official role as Dance Leader and unofficial role as "happiness maker" have long put him in service to others, leading him to neglect his own personal development as an artist. This is something he's identified as wanting to change:

"People often say my lines are clean and my movements detailed, but these days, I've been focusing more on creating my own style of expression." "Just the fact that I have the desire to do better and to fulfill something real within me is already something to be grateful for. Some might call it greed, but I think it's worse not to desire anything at all."

( for some great meta about Yunho's interview, read @storkmuffin answers to my asks part 1, part 2, part 3)

For all that Yunho is very good at calibrating his idol persona to maximize fan attention and affection, he's lacked the "breakout" moment that other members have experienced, which catapulted them to new levels of fame and attention.

Yunho's solution was to manufacture a breakout moment for himself. He leveraged his network of actor friends from Imitation and landed a role in a short-form web comedy where he played a hapless office worker with unexpected martial arts skills; he recorded an OST for a popular airing tv show; and he starred in a dramatic short film that also doubled as iPhone spon, which led to him being invited to attend the launch of a new Apple product. He probably did all of this before and during their filming of Ateez+. It's also very likely that we'll see him make his Paris Fashion Week debut this fall, given his recent attendance at luxury brand events.

He's letting himself be greedy, selfish, nakedly ambitious.

Yunho asks Mingi: "do you think I've changed?"

It's not mere KBS plot contrivance that had him seeking an honest answer from Mingi, who has only ever given him honesty. He'll flatter Yunho's looks to anyone who asks, but he won't offer false praise.

Mingi essentially told Yunho: the members may not be able to see it, but I do. You're becoming darker. You've always masked it with a pleasant smile and a cheerful attitude, but I know you better than everyone. I see the darkness, and I'm not afraid of it.

Of all the members, I think Yunho wanted and needed to have this conversation with Mingi. I can only speculate that when Yunho embarked on these solo schedules, he looked to Mingi as model of what a certain kind of success could look like. He maybe even asked Mingi for guidance. Maybe Mingi even gave him the same speech he gives us in Episode Two:

"Self-esteem will rise and fall. I think that's possible as you work. But it's not good to keep people that try to bring other people's self-esteem down and try to take other people down because of their jealousy and envy around you. The people that cut you down by telling you to improve on something in the name of giving advice is not necessarily someone that will be helpful in your life."

This is the kind of advice that is actually helpful to Yunho, who has always been a people-pleaser. Mingi tells Yunho that he can't just wait for someone to say he's cool, he needs to say that to himself.

As @throwing-roses-into-the-abyss observed, in these episodes, when Mingi gets fired up about a topic, Yunho simply listens and prompts him to say more. There is, of course, always a bit of teasing and some classic Yunho deflection, but Yunho seems to be absorbing the Mingi wisdom.

This is because Yunho knows that Mingi has surpassed him.

Mingi is running ahead, and seemingly doesn't require the same level of support or guidance that he previously sought from Yunho, or that Yunho offered him unsolicitedly.

This represents a significant shift in their usual dynamic, given their history. For a long time, from their pre-debut days and after Mingi's hiatus, Yunho has acted as a "savior-like entity" to Mingi (his own words). @ffg7 has written about the ways Yunho has attempted to live up to that moniker, perhaps at the expense of his own individual development ("Yunho as a First-Time Mom to His Clearly Distressed Friend").

To be clear, this was an act of love and care and Mingi takes it seriously. In that same Off The Record clip, Mingi names Yunho as the exception for his rule to "never rely on anyone"

"But Yunho calls me a lot ..and gave me a lot of strength...I think I [learned] what kindness and thankfulness is from you."

"Oh he can't live without me," Yunho once joked during their promotions for Wave and, frankly, I don't think Mingi wants to live without him!

But I also don't think Mingi needs Yunho the same way he did earlier in their careers. Mingi no longer needs Yunho to "explain" or interpret Mingi to others, not when Mingi has been sharper, funnier, and far more charismatic in their public appearances than ever before. Not when Mingi commands entire stadiums to bark for him, or when he gets entire swaths of uninterrupted and minimally-edited airtime on a KBS show to expound on his philosophy about life, business, and personal growth.

Since we’re celebrities, we need to satisfy the people to a certain degree. But I think we still have to satisfy ourselves in the process as well. I think I try to find a harmony between the two in my head.

Here's where I really lean into some rpf-influenced speculation, because Yunho has clearly spent the last several months dealing with the revelation that things have changed. And his response has been...interesting.

I'm far from the only one who's observed a difference in Yunho's behavior towards Mingi since before the GH3 comeback. Essentially, he's been leaning hard into the fan service. We've heard more "princess" nicknames from him this year alone than in other years combined; he goes out of his way to acknowledge their wordless ability to communicate on stage. He was super playful and affectionate with Mingi on stage during the North American tour.

Watch this video if you want to take psychic damage 👇

But while Yunho has been mostly sweet, he's still a little salty.

Over the course of this same period, and including during the episodes of Ateez+, Yunho also tried to reinforce or re-establish the "traditional" YunGi dynamic, wherein Mingi's radical vulnerability and ungovernable sincerity towards Yunho (his "moral loyalty") was often met with Yunho's fond dismissal or awkward indulgence, and not always his reciprocation. This would put Mingi at a distinct disadvantage, particularly because most of these incidents occurred while they they were being filmed.

I remember finding this moment from Episode 2 fascinating. When the interviewer prompts Yunho about a time they fought about something, Yunho first claims he doesn't remember...

And then he references an incident from several years ago. And not just any incident, but the incident.

Here's Mingi's answer for the same prompt:

"In Yunho's case, when he apologizes first, he says something like 'Mingi, I'm sorry for getting mad this time. I'll do better from now on.' On the other hand, I'm more like this. 'I think I was wrong about this part this time, so I'll make sure not to do it again. But I also want you to be a little careful because I'm sensitive about it....I feel like I try my best not to do what he dislikes."

In comparison, Yunho's answer comes off as particularly discordant. He calls Mingi jealous and possessive, implies an imbalance of affection, and then admits to using some soft manipulation to make Mingi feel responsible for his own hurt feelings. I think Yunho realizes in the moment that what he's saying could be misconstrued, so after a beat of silence he tacks this on:

In the most recent episode, I was surprised that Yunho brought up another embarrassing moment for Mingi, when he tore open his shirt on stage during the Akaraka Festival at Yonsei University. This was the second time Yunho brought this up, unsolicited, and over a year after the incident in question.

Here's Yunho's reaction to Mingi's daring move:

This moment clearly lives free in Yunho's mind. It was certainly a breach of decorum and a violation of their carefully-rehearsed choreography, but it's also representative of Mingi's ability to fully and freely express himself on stage, to lose himself in the performance and pull attention from the audience through the sheer power of his brazenness. It's the quality that makes someone a star.

In one sense, you can read Yunho's behavior towards Mingi throughout this entire cb season as a strategy of association. Yunho doesn't yet have the power to pull attention on his own; his individual brand is still too weak for that. As multiple mutuals have observed, he converts people into hotteoks during concerts, but he can't always sustain that ability on camera or during the off-season. That is a gift others have, like San, Seonghwa, Mingi, and Wooyoung.

Meanwhile, fan service with Mingi is a proven attention-grabber, and Yunho knows that YunGi the brand is perhaps stronger than Yunho the brand (at least, for now).

This is perhaps the more cynical, pragmatic interpretation of their recent interactions. But I'm not very cynical. I'm a romantic. I think Yunho wants his friend's attention. I think he wants to stay close. He maybe even wants to return to their older dynamic, and is attempting to reproduce it by bringing up the past.

I think he watched Mingi grow and mature over the last few years, and as much as he wants to protect and preserve the innocent side of Mingi who he fears losing, he's also proud and inspired by the Mingi who has fearlessly carved his own path in this industry and moved beyond his expected role(s) within the group.

Mingi's moved farther ahead, but Yunho promised to keep running together.

I'm reminded of their other discussion in Episode 6: Mingi thinks ATEEZ must evolve beyond their performance-heavy musical style, so that they can reach more casual viewers. He wants them to make music people can enjoy without the qualifier of "but you really must see them live."

Yunho argues: there's also merit in ATEEZ strengthening their reputation as "performance kings," and sustaining their core, loyal fanbase.

Essentially, it all boils down to: take the risk? or play it safe?

Yunho is finally ready to take the risk and evolve, and Mingi is ready to meet him there.

"I'll remember your youth, and you'll remember my youth"

I knew Mingi would be the only one to actually give a straightforward answer

Jongho's reaction kills me😂