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Equality – it’s always about humanity!

August Diehl & Bruno Alexander are not only both nominated for a Lola in the Best Actor category, they also embody a modern image of masculinity that transcends all power-related clichés. BUNTE sat down with them for a chat.

One of them won the German Film Award 27 years ago with his very first film and is regarded as one of the most versatile actors of his generation. The other is currently breaking popularity records with his debut performance. August Diehl, 50, and Bruno Alexander, 26, are both nominated for a Lola. Two generations, two completely different roles and some thought-provoking reflections on power, humanity and attitude.

Do you actually know each other?

A: We shook hands for the first time today. In the underground car park.

B: We were just chilling there. Very glamorous.

Do you see yourselves as rivals?

A: Not at all. Of course there’s that whole game – nomination, award, suspense. But ultimately, it’s not a sport. I’m just glad it’s generating attention.

B: I don’t see August as a rival. More as part of the same moment.

Mr Diehl, your role is extremely dark – how do you approach a character like the Nazi criminal Josef Mengele?

The journey to get there was harder than the filming itself. The decision to do it was the real process. During filming, I try not to get too analytical, but rather to feel what’s happening. We still know very little about Josef Mengele. Neither where exactly, nor how long he was in hiding, nor about his death. Only his skull, with its gapped teeth, was discovered. That was the proof that he was dead.

Would you take on a role like that?

B: I would look at it very carefully. For me, what matters less is what I play, but rather with whom and how. Any role can be interesting.

This role played by Joachim Meyerhoff, for which you’ve been nominated, is the exact opposite – very empathetic.

B: Yes, I only really understood a lot of it once I’d seen the whole film. Especially this theme of ‘gaps’. >

>What value gaps hold. That life isn’t just about loss, but also about distance from oneself or from one’s own dreams. That perhaps you don’t necessarily have to fill gaps. But rather accept them. The more you fill them, the more they open up.

Have these very different male characters also influenced your view of modern masculinity?

A: To be honest, I have little interest in debates like that. I think it makes more sense to talk about humanity than about masculinity or femininity. These categories often lead down dead ends.

B: It does concern me. I find many forms of masculinity – particularly those that are instilled through upbringing – extremely problematic. Patriarchy is like a cancer that holds things back and nips processes in the bud. I try to deal with it sensitively and talk to friends a lot.

Does external pressure, such as on social media, play a role?

A: That’s exactly what I consciously distance myself from. There are constant waves of debate. If you let yourself get drawn into every single one, you waste energy that could be spent on what’s really important to you.

B: I don’t think you can completely withdraw from it. Especially when talking to friends, you realise how important the issue is.

A: I’m just remembering a casting where I had to appear as a woman, or rather as a trans figure. In high heels, a short skirt and a wig. Suddenly I felt how people’s perception of me changed. How I was being looked at and assessed. For the first time, I understood how a woman must feel. It became clear: toxic masculinity exists. And that power dynamics operate very subtly. That many differences are barely visible in everyday life – yet have an enormous impact.

Is this a structural problem?

Whoever has the most power actually bears the greatest responsibility for upholding humanity. Yet it is precisely there that the greatest shortcomings often arise. At the same time, I believe we are making progress. A very painful, but necessary process. The fact that we are even talking about it is progress in itself. A hundred years ago, equality wasn’t even on the agenda. Today, it’s all entered the public consciousness. I was, for example, incredibly impressed by the early days of the Me Too movement, when so many women stood up and fought back.

So is there cause for optimism?

Yes – despite everything. Or perhaps precisely because of it.

Don’t you feel there’s a fierce backlash going on right now?

B: Many men feel under attack; that’s why they should just step back for a moment or finally speak up. Anyone who remains silent on issues like violence is supporting the system. Of course, one shouldn’t see everything in black and white, but those who are destroying the world are always men.

A: The world has always been dominated by men. I’m not talking about a hundred years ago. How long ago was it that marital rape was still legal? But today we’re shocked by it. That’s what I mean by progress.

You’re not a power-hungry person, Mr Diehl, are you?

No, I’ve never really been interested in power. That’s why I have absolutely no understanding of it.

What can you learn from each other?

B: Actually, I’ve learnt from August that I should be even happier about the nomination, because he wasn’t happy enough at the time and regretted it for a long time. I won’t take it for granted, because it’s a great honour.

0:42–0:52 I’m really happy that the two lead actors from the film *The Young Karl Marx* are here. First, there’s August Diehl as Marx—welcome, nice to see you again. 0:52–0:53 Hi, nice to meet you. 

 2:17–2:24 How did you feel? Did you have images in your head that you had to shake off? Maybe because you’re younger, did you have a different perspective and an unbiased approach? August.

2:26–2:36 I remember when Raoul Peck came up to me and asked if I’d play Karl Marx, the young Karl Marx—my first thought was, “Why me?” he’s that old man with the beard, right? 2:36–2:38 And was he even ever young or anything? 2:39–2:48 And, um, yeah, and then I—and then I thought, “Well, of course he has to be”—you tend to associate Karl Marx more with an idea than with a person. 2:49-3:02 And, um, then, especially through the letters—um, the ones that exist between Marx and Engels and also between Marx and his wife. And also between Engels and his wife Mary Burns, um. 3:03-3:08 That helped a lot, and you can see that they were just normal people who had problems. 3:09-3:16 Like, Marx wrote some satirical letters too, and humorous ones—which you wouldn’t really expect, um. 3:16-3:19 Yeah, and that brought it all closer to me. 3:57-4:04 Were these life stories new to you as well? This encounter between the rich angel and the rather poor Marx. Was that also unusual and something new to discover? 

4:06-4:09 Well, I have to be completely honest—I hadn’t really engaged with Marx before. 4:10-4:16 I mean, it was only when the film started that I began to engage with it—and I’m not really—it was part of the school curriculum, of course. 4:16-4:21 And, um, but I’ve never really had a phase where I focused on Marx. 4:21-4:27 Although he was always present, of course, and sometimes even subconsciously—for example, at acting school, um, Ernst Busch. 4:28-4:27 Of course, um, without ever having heard the name explicitly, but when someone explains that a person is a product of their milieu, then you know where that comes from. 4:38-4:46 And, um, even during acting school, that was a topic, and then at some point this offer came up to play him. 4:47-4:49 And then it was just a relatively short phase in one’s life. 4:51-4:57 And I think—I mean—we always want to build a bridge to today and to what’s current. 4:57-5:00 But actually, I always kind of— 5:00-5:10 Especially during the preparation, I realized that we associate Marx so strongly with the 20th century, um, and with everything that happened there, and also with the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc in general. 5:11–5:16 But during the preparation, I realized that he’s actually much more of a 19th-century figure who’s actually much closer to the French Revolution. 5:17-5:23 Like the world wars, for example, and, um, from that whole context, from his own milieu.5:24-5:27 Then at some point I was able to understand Marx better. 

7:13-7:16 Why did the friendship actually work out that way and become such a great working partnership? 7:16-7:20 Because it wasn’t just a dependency of Marx on Engels—that was only on the financial level. 7:21-7:23 But for me, on the intellectual level, it was the other way around. 7:25-7:26 And I believe they needed each other. 7:27-7:34 By the way, this wasn’t some artificial idea or just a nice notion of how we want to change the world. Rather, it was—it was a necessity. 7:35-7:42 And anyway, in the 1960s and 1970s, there was also the slogan of an entire generation that said: Who, if not us? When, if not now? 7:42-7:46 And I think that played a role back in the 19th century as well. 7:46-7:52 And there was also a sense of urgency—people didn’t live as long as we do today, and by 40, you were considered old. 7:53-7:56 And of course that also means the clock is ticking and it has to start now, today. 7:58-8:00 They also have a mischievous streak, by the way—even a bit of a punk vibe. 8:01-8:09 So when you try to piece together all these trials, you also sense a kind of mischief in challenging the authorities.