Archie's Rival

I’m sure who needs to hear this but “selfcest” is not a thing that is comparable in any way to any real life crime or wrongdoing and is therefore not setting a bad example about anything and is therefore not a problematic component that needs to be called out. Anyone can like or not like a pairing, but this is like the pinnacle of reaching to explain why the pairing someone doesn’t like is also “inappropriate” or “toxic.” Falling for (if you take the framing and Mobius’s words at face value) an alternate timeline version of yourself is not a thing anyone will have an opportunity to do nor is it likely that any impressionable mind is going to watch this show and then feel like falling in romantic love with oneself is the move.

“ So because selfcest can’t exist in real life that means we can’t compare it to anything? You could argue that almost anything a character does in fiction can’t set a bad example if its not possible in real life.“ It isn’t just that it can’t happen in real life. It’s also that it’s not applicable to any type of real life harmful behavior that can be mimicked in any way that would make them problematic to write. There are stories in the realm of the supernatural or science fiction that couldn’t really happen but the personal relationships within the story and the dynamics of it can be emulated, which is where let’s not promote the wrong thing often comes into conversation. There is no course of action for a real person to take if they become so enamored by the idea of being in a romantic relationship with their alternate timeline selves that they feel like they must have that too. As opposed to other arguments you can make in other media where a fictional couple is normalizing/romanticizing a situation that is damaging in real life.  “ It’s not far fetched to think of loki and sylvie like two siblings separated at birth.” You can think of that in that way and headcanon it in your personal mind space in that way, but it is nothing like what actually happened. They are variants of the same being who - in some supernatural sense - are connected cosmically by destiny to serve a particular function in a different version of the same story, and in Sylvie’s case she pretty much abandoned the destiny of being “a Loki” after that life was forcibly taken from her. “ If anything loki x sylvie is more similar to cloning a person using their DNA like with x-23 and wolverine. And that kind of cloning in real life isn’t even that far fetched it just won’t happen wuth humans due to ethics. “ So like, it’s not like that at all because this is more based on the idea of the cosmos and fate than it is genetics based sci-fi, and I mentioned in the original post how there are a lot of things that were said or shown in that last episode that raise a question mark on the biology of the Lokis, which probably won’t be concretely answered because it doesn’t need to be, and there are no ethical concerns because the story is not connected to any real life behavior in the slightest. You cannot be in a relationship with another version of you (of a different name, physical appearance, and for the most part a different life entirely once she was removed from her timeline) in another version of your literal life, and there is no “close enough” real life go-to for someone who for some reason is inspired by this show to want to do that. Other than masturbating and trying to make that more romantic than it probably should be, but at least that person is just being creepy on their own. Probably. (Joking aside, I guess someone could be inspired to want to find a life partner who has been through similar experiences, trauma, and has similar strengths and weaknesses?)

I agree that it is weird and is supposed to be weird; weird enough to cause a huge branch and then further explained to the audience how weird it is by Mobius, and that it is an intended metaphor for loving oneself that will be a hit for some and miss for others. I mean, we’re dealing with a character who like a couple days ago in his own timeline tried to enslave all of Earth because he thought that would be a dope way to stick it to his dad and brother, so I’m not too bothered with him making a cosmically unconventional romantic choice (since they are, again, not narratively promoting something harmful in real life with this storyline). What I’m trying to hone in on is that people do this thing where when something on a show doesn’t mesh with them, not only is it a “I don’t like this” but it also has to go into this deep dive into why that thing is a problem beyond being not that person’s cup of tea, and likening this to incest was to me a particularly far reach in that super common fandom practice. We know that one of Sylvie’s biological parents was a version of Laufey and that her adoptive father was a version of Odin etc. just as there is probably some adjacent story for alligator Loki. ... Would it be incesty if Loki made out with that alligator? I mean, that would be problem for a whole bunch of other reasons, yes, but I’m going to go out on a limb that they probably don’t have the same genes? And certainly don’t perceive themselves as siblings? I’m elaborating on this aspect because you said it’s more like cloning Wolverine but is it though? /thor

I’m sure who needs to hear this but “selfcest” is not a thing that is comparable in any way to any real life crime or wrongdoing and is therefore not setting a bad example about anything and is therefore not a problematic component that needs to be called out. Anyone can like or not like a pairing, but this is like the pinnacle of reaching to explain why the pairing someone doesn’t like is also “inappropriate” or “toxic.” Falling for (if you take the framing and Mobius’s words at face value) an alternate timeline version of yourself is not a thing anyone will have an opportunity to do nor is it likely that any impressionable mind is going to watch this show and then feel like falling in romantic love with oneself is the move.

“ So because selfcest can’t exist in real life that means we can’t compare it to anything? You could argue that almost anything a character does in fiction can’t set a bad example if its not possible in real life.“ It isn’t just that it can’t happen in real life. It’s also that it’s not applicable to any type of real life harmful behavior that can be mimicked in any way that would make them problematic to write. There are stories in the realm of the supernatural or science fiction that couldn’t really happen but the personal relationships within the story and the dynamics of it can be emulated, which is where let’s not promote the wrong thing often comes into conversation. There is no course of action for a real person to take if they become so enamored by the idea of being in a romantic relationship with their alternate timeline selves that they feel like they must have that too. As opposed to other arguments you can make in other media where a fictional couple is normalizing/romanticizing a situation that is damaging in real life.  “ It’s not far fetched to think of loki and sylvie like two siblings separated at birth.” You can think of that in that way and headcanon it in your personal mind space in that way, but it is nothing like what actually happened. They are variants of the same being who - in some supernatural sense - are connected cosmically by destiny to serve a particular function in a different version of the same story, and in Sylvie’s case she pretty much abandoned the destiny of being “a Loki” after that life was forcibly taken from her. “ If anything loki x sylvie is more similar to cloning a person using their DNA like with x-23 and wolverine. And that kind of cloning in real life isn’t even that far fetched it just won’t happen wuth humans due to ethics. “ So like, it’s not like that at all because this is more based on the idea of the cosmos and fate than it is genetics based sci-fi, and I mentioned in the original post how there are a lot of things that were said or shown in that last episode that raise a question mark on the biology of the Lokis, which probably won’t be concretely answered because it doesn’t need to be, and there are no ethical concerns because the story is not connected to any real life behavior in the slightest. You cannot be in a relationship with another version of you (of a different name, physical appearance, and for the most part a different life entirely once she was removed from her timeline) in another version of your literal life, and there is no “close enough” real life go-to for someone who for some reason is inspired by this show to want to do that. Other than masturbating and trying to make that more romantic than it probably should be, but at least that person is just being creepy on their own. Probably. (Joking aside, I guess someone could be inspired to want to find a life partner who has been through similar experiences, trauma, and has similar strengths and weaknesses?)