Would you agree with take that Zuko has Madonna whore complex?
https://www.tumblr.com/scamthescalpel/817966808654053377/ok-fine-lets-talk-about-it-first-to-define-a?source=share
*rolls eyes so hard I see my brain* I wish I could straight up forbid this fandom, and people in general, from using pop psychology terms they CLEARLY don't actually understand.
1 - Zuko loved his mom, but like I've explained in this absurdly long post, the parent he is weird about is OZAI, not Ursa. Zuko appreciating the fact that his mother was a kind, loving parent, and admiring her for it, is not the same as any kind of unhealthy attachment or worship or seeing as The Ultimate Woman. Ozai is the parent Zuko bases everything in his life around - and Ozai's attrocious parenting is the reason his relationship with Azula is terrible (both in the sense of "Zuko is violently jealous of her" and "Azula often crosses the line into bullying/abusing him").
2 - Azula IS manipulative, dangerous, cunning, likes to fuck with Zuko, almost caused him to end up as a prisoner, and acted suspiciously happy when Ursa was gone (WE know she was bluffing, Zuko is in the dark and thus understanbly could wonder if Azula either played a part in their mom disappearing, or at least knows something she's not sharing just because it's amusing to her). Again, consequence of Ozai's shitty parenting, plus indoctrination.
Zuko picking up on all that is not projection, and thus the constant "BOY, ARE YOU STUPID? DON'T BE LOOKING AT A DANGEROUS FOE WITH HEART EYES!" from his brain whenever he experiences some kind of inappropriate attraction towards Azula is not about "women who want sex are evil, Azula is evil, therefore Azula MUST be a whore" but rather "sleeping with AZULA is a terrible, dangerous idea because she's AZULA" (on top of the obvious "Incest is taboo, of course his brain is going to scream DANGER! BACK OFF! at the thought of it" factor)
3 - Zuko is implied to have had sex with Mai, yet not once does he seem to think less of her for not being "pure." Same for BRAGGING to guards that she can handle herself and doesn't need anyone to save her. He also didn't think less of Suki for clearly wanting sex with her boyfriend, and the only time he said something negative (or anything AT ALL) about Ty Lee, a notorious flirt, was about how weird it was for her to walk on her hands and to have left with the circus, no shaming her for being a "tease" (unlike AZULA, who very much did slut-shame her).
Zuko is a teenage boy that puts his foot in his mouth every now and then, but he's no raging "Red Pilled" incel. Hell, HE IGNORED AZULA'S BEHAVIOR IN THE BEDROOM SCENE COMPLETELY! He doesn't bat an eye at a girl wanting sex, not even when said girl is his sister and seemingly making moves on him. This boy interrupted his own first kiss to hand his date a cupon, sex/romance is just not that big a deal to him, it's just a part of life.
4 - There ARE questionable moments between Zuko and Azula, but they are largely a consequence of Grey shipping zucest and thus dialing up the seductress voice in key scenes, like Zuko's dream... or the scene in Azula's bedroom. Aka yet ANOTHER thing that he didn't imagine.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying Azula was trying to seduce her brother at any point before them being reunited in book 2, they were literally kids. I am simply clarifying that teenage Zuko's dream was him combining what he knew of teenage Azula's personality and of the way she usually messed with him to guess what she'd behave IF she shared his taboo attraction, or at least saw it as another weakness of his that she could exploit (without necessarily sleeping with him, might I add).
The Bedroom Scene (and Azula's attempts of flirting on The Beach sounding deranged/threatening) is confirmation that Zuko guessed correctly. Again, he's not projecting some twisted understanding of sexuality or of women in general onto her, he just knows that Azula's Gonna Azula, even when it comes to flirting.
5 - There is literally not a single scene in which Zuko expresses any intense reaction (positive or negative) towards a woman being "unfeminine" (which doesn't fit the definition of a girly girl like his sister), NOTHING suggests he sees desiring sex as an inherently "male" trait or something that only women that are somehow "broken" or "lesser" experience (see number 3 again), and the only times he ever makes any sexist comments are towards female warriors are when said warriors are not on his side (again, see him thinking it's awesome that Mai is a badass).
6 - Zuko not realizing how Azula's been abused has nothing to do with attraction, or any Madonna-Whore complex, it's about her being the Golden Child while he's the Scapegoat. He was taught to envy her position, she was taught to fear ending up in his.
7 - Azula is another asian girl in the middle of an ALL-ASIAN CAST, was originally going to be Zuko's bully OLDER BROTHER, canonically can't flirt in a way guys actually find appealing, and dragons are an important Fire Nation thing (not to mention animal guides being a thing), hence Zuko also imagining IROH as one, because it is a symbol of POWER. I'm not saying there's absolutely no "Dragon Lady" subtext there, but acting like that's all that's going in that scene/show is ridiculous, especially since, again, the incest/seduction subtext was almost exclusively coming from the voice actress at that point.
"Femme Fatale Azula" is a fanon thing, none of the writers of the actual show or even the comics ever went there, not even the ones who clearly don't like/don't get Azula's character (due to ABLEISM, not sexism or anti-asian racism - again, all asian show and Azula was going to be a villain even when she was a man), they all lean pretty strongly towards the "Accidentally scares the shit out of any boy she likes" characterization for her.
8 - Once again, Zuko envies Azula. He doesn't despise her, he wants to BE her. And he sees only two ways to do that - either defeating her in battle to prove he's better than her, or joining forces with her so they're at least equals. Both open the door for Freudian bullshit because being the object of her desire counts as having power over her AND having her pursue him means he's important because, and this is the key factor here, ZUKO KNOWS AZULA DOESN'T JUST ACT THAT WAY TOWARDS ANY RANDOM GUY!
She's too smart, competent and powerful (both in the royalty way and in the bender way) to need to just spread her legs to get what she wants, and she'd be proud to do it even if she did need it. Zuko knows his sister. He doesn't always like her, but....
9 - ZUKO KNOWS HOW ROYALTY BEHAVES! He's been both at the top and at the bottom of the food chain in this absolute monarchy, of course he imagines the crowned princess making moves on him, or on anybody, through an unballanced, borderline predatory dynamic. He knows you don't say "no" to royalty - if you do, you might get your house trashed like Chan did, or rotting in prison like Iroh, or being disfigured and banished, or even having lightning shot at your chest.
Zuko is not seeing the possibility of any inappropriate relationship with his sister as dangerous out of projection - he just knows that shit can't end well for him.
It's taboo, it's a political headache, it's too risky, IT'S AZULA. Reducing it to "He thinks sex/power taints women" is to ignore all the layers of this messy subtext.
There's a way to criticize Zuko's, and the writer's, view of Azula, but this ain't it. Criticism isn't making shit up.
2087
stormborns
yousharknotpass
