Random Gay Fandom Shit

you’re welcome! I love making ttp content and ttp memes too, and I have been silent on my discomfort with some aspects of the discord server/fandom overall for similar reasons. The Two Princes podcast is far from perfect, but one of the main reasons I fell in love with it was because of the main theme on how queer love is intrinsically good and powerful. I’ve made many a post discussing the nuances in the writing for both rumir and jecily and how many of the themes for both mirror the important foundational values every healthy relationship requires. I love the idea that these two kids can throw away the propaganda they’ve been fed and expectations on their shoulders and choose love. I was also incredibly impressed with the fact that such a blatantly queer podcast was greenlit with the target audience being children. If there had been something like this when I was in middle school, I would feel a lot more secure in my identity today. But I digress.

The argument has been had on tumblr a thousand times over on the intersection between adult content and children’s media, and I really don’t care to get into it again. But, as a minor, there have been some works in the fandom that have made me uncomfortable. It’s not that adult content was made for certain characters, it was the framing of such content and the syntax associated was very reminiscent of fetishized mlm content. In addition, there are certain circles of the fandom that are very adult-dominated, and, because of that, I have kept my distance from due to the language used in discussing relationships in the show. Of course, this is the Internet, and I have no authority to police the content others make. Yet, it has made me uncomfortable.

Because the fan base for this podcast is so small, and the sizes of such adult-dominated spaces are so large, I’ve been afraid to voice my concerns regarding the blatant sexualition and feminization of certain characters for adult pleasure. But, if this fandom were to ever gain a bigger following and include more minors, it’s a concern that needs addressing now. I have no urge to engage in tumblr drama with anyone about what I’ve discussed. But to pretend that it doesn’t exist will only serve to exclude future fans, queer or not.

you’re welcome! I love making ttp content and ttp memes too, and I have been silent on my discomfort with some aspects of the discord server/fandom overall for similar reasons. The Two Princes podcast is far from perfect, but one of the main reasons I fell in love with it was because of the main theme on how queer love is intrinsically good and powerful. I’ve made many a post discussing the nuances in the writing for both rumir and jecily and how many of the themes for both mirror the important foundational values every healthy relationship requires. I love the idea that these two kids can throw away the propaganda they’ve been fed and expectations on their shoulders and choose love. I was also incredibly impressed with the fact that such a blatantly queer podcast was greenlit with the target audience being children. If there had been something like this when I was in middle school, I would feel a lot more secure in my identity today. But I digress.

The argument has been had on tumblr a thousand times over on the intersection between adult content and children’s media, and I really don’t care to get into it again. But, as a minor, there have been some works in the fandom that have made me uncomfortable. It’s not that adult content was made for certain characters, it was the framing of such content and the syntax associated was very reminiscent of fetishized mlm content. In addition, there are certain circles of the fandom that are very adult-dominated, and, because of that, I have kept my distance from due to the language used in discussing relationships in the show. Of course, this is the Internet, and I have no authority to police the content others make. Yet, it has made me uncomfortable.

Because the fan base for this podcast is so small, and the sizes of such adult-dominated spaces are so large, I’ve been afraid to voice my concerns regarding the blatant sexualition and feminization of certain characters for adult pleasure. But, if this fandom were to ever gain a bigger following and include more minors, it’s a concern that needs addressing now. I have no urge to engage in tumblr drama with anyone about what I’ve discussed. But to pretend that it doesn’t exist will only serve to exclude future fans, queer or not.

In the interest of providing a way to enjoy TTPP content on AO3, I created this link to automatically give you everything except rated E and M fanfics.

the critiques made by me and by callmefitz were not regarding how adult content is handled in the fandom. like i said in my reblog (which you liked, so you’ve obviously read despite not responding directly to it), i actually admire how vigilant everyone is in tagging fics and keeping adult content to the adult channels. my critiques were more focused on how this content is produced.

my stance is, and always has been, ttp smut is morally wrong. rupert and amir are barely-legal adults, and still teenagers. they have the minds of teenagers, and have never been in a relationship besides each other. they have barely experienced adult life- heck, rupert hadn’t even ever left his castle by the events of the first season.

not only are you writing mlm smut when you (very obviously, by the way you tastelessly portray them) are not a member of that community, but you are writing smut of children. you are in your thirties.

i don’t know how to explain to you that just because someone is technically legal doesn’t make them okay to fetishize. the counterarguments that have arisen from this discussion in the discord were that people just age them up, but again, i don’t know how to explain to you that that doesn’t erase the fact that they’re seventeen and eighteen in the podcast and is therefore morally wrong.

you claim you want to protect the children and that’s why no one can say fuck outside of the adults-only channels and then you turn around and write smut of characters much younger than you. you don’t really want to protect the children.

our goal for starting this discussion was not to say “put stronger child-barriers on things,” it was to say “holy fucking shit stop writing porn of children!” the discussion regarding this type of content being so accessible to minors was only a small bit of this conversation and it was mentioned as a side effect of the fandom being so small, not as a fault of you. however, there are serious critiques i have for you, as outlined above.

please don’t message me. please don’t try and talk to me. get a different hobby, please, or go back to your sanders sides foot fetish fanfiction.

How DARE you.

How DARE you accuse someone of writing child pornography.

How DARE you accuse this person who takes every precaution to make sure that children are safe in the discord server, of not wanting to protect children.

We heard you.  We listened to your complaints in the discord.  We tried to talk to you about it.

But you want to know what?

We also heard you telling us that writing smut for the ttpp characters is wrong, full stop.  You’re still clinging to that.

We also heard you telling us that we shouldn’t write outside of our own experiences.  As if that’s not a form of dangerous gatekeeping.  (And also, you cannot tell just from ‘how tastelessly someone writes’ whether they’re part of a community.  That’s not your call to make.  Stop assuming you know people’s experiences.)

We heard you say that you don’t care what other people think.  That obviously still holds.

Is it lonely up there, on your high holy pedestal?  Do you feel bigger now that you’re obviously so much better than us?

I could tell you something.  I could tell you that I write smut for Rupert and Amir and I’m not even an ‘older adult,’ as you had put in the server.  I’m just a little older than them, myself.  I could tell you that I’m questioning my gender identity, and writing about every aspect of Rupert and Amir’s lives - even the sexual parts - is helping me figure it out.

I could tell you so much, but you know what?  It’s none of your goddamn business.  That is what this ultimately boils down to.  It’s none of your goddamn motherfucking business who I am.  You are not entitled to know what I write or why.

I don’t understand why you’ve decided that this is the hill you wish to die on.  I don’t understand all of this fascination everyone has with purity and morals on tumblr.com all of a sudden.  I don’t understand why fanfiction, of all things, suddenly needs to be moral and pure, when it is supposed to be one of the best and safest places for people to figure shit out.

It needs to be a safe place for everyone, and THAT is the point we’ve been trying to make.  That’s the point we’ve ALL been trying to make.  Becoming an adult doesn’t suddenly mean that you’re no longer entitled to safety on the internet.

But then?  Toxic people come along and decide that we’re all filthy monsters for writing smut.  Smut between two characters who are not only legally adults, but also treated like adults for the majority of the podcast.

Look, I could get into the nuances of why it’s alright - because really, it is alright - to write smut between Rupert and Amir.  I could list all of the reasons because let’s face it, we all know they’re young.  We’re not blind to the fact that they’re eighteen.  And there’s another person I’ve spoken with this about who is also an adult.  A moment of “hmm.  They’d be in college about now, huh?  Is it okay?”

Yes.

It’s okay.

You know why?

Because these are fictional characters.

These are fictional characters in a fictional world in a fictional setting.

The creator of these fictional characters makes sex jokes about them too, and he’s in his 30s.  You gonna come after him?  Hell, he’s mentioned that he’s read some of the smut and he hasn’t complained once.

But you know what?  It doesn’t matter what I say.  You’re probably not going to read all of this.  You didn’t listen when we tried to talk to you in the server.  You’re not going to listen now.  So I guess this isn’t even for you.

This is for me.  This is for me, who you made scared for a few hot seconds because I got flashbacks to the days of fanfiction.net and worried that my stuff was going to get purged.  This is for me, who you made feel legitimately guilty for writing a fictional thing between two consenting adults.  Yes they are adults.  No that’s not up for debate.  Yes there’s a fucking difference between writing smut and fetishizing people.  No I’m not filthy.

This is for Tam.  This is for Tam who does a damn good job keeping the discord safe for children.  That includes banning child pornography.  That also includes saying fuck outside of the adults section.  That also includes keeping smut in the adults section.  Tam isn’t as close to Rupert and Amir in age as I am but they can still write whatever the fuck they want.  No one gets a say in that.  This isn’t 1984.  (And for the record, not tasteless writing.  Good writing.)

This is for everyone else in the server that I’m not going to name (because they’re not directly involved in this convo and I don’t have their consent).  This is for the people that also began to feel doubt because of this.  Who felt shame.  Who felt fear.  Who felt anger or rage or sadness or hopelessness.

I am reblogging this with this long-ass response, at 2:46 AM, on my very own ttpp blog because I am so goddamn tired of this kind of discourse.

Stop trying to control what other people write and you will be much happier.  Learn to let things go and stop harassing people.  (Yeah, you did start this one.  Don’t fuck with me on this.)

You are not the judge.  Or the jury.  And although I’m sure you’d love it, you’re not the executioner.

Also,,, liking something in fiction?  Not the same as condoning it in real life.  Otherwise I think like 99% of all content creators would be in jail for one thing or another.

You can disagree with whether something is morally acceptable.  I frankly don’t care.  But don’t come after people who are just trying to have a good time on this shitty, shitty planet, in a way that isn’t hurting anyone (DID YOU KNOW THAT EXPLORING THINGS IN FICTION IS HEALTHIER THAN EXPLORING THINGS IN REAL LIFE).

So I’m not going to come in here and make a huge argument about how our space is portrayed by this one person is wrong, because that would be a waste of time. Anyone who loves these characters should join us. It’s so fun.

This isn’t about The Two Princes. This is about art, and gatekeeping, and shaming, and feeling ashamed.

I want to let all the people reading this exchange and feeling ashamed of the things they like know that you’re okay. It’s okay to be a straight girl and enjoy mlm romances. It’s okay to be an adult and enjoy stories about teenagers. Hell, it’s okay to be an adult and like smutty stories about teenagers. That might ick some people out but honestly making and consuming art is how we make sense of OURSELVES, it doesn’t have anything to do with other people. If something speaks to you, explore it! I can’t think of a safer way to do that than through fan fic. Don’t let anyone make you feel ashamed for the feelings you have. We’re all humans trying to figure out how to be humans in this messy world.

And I’m sure we’re all aware that the thoughts in our head have nothing to do with the actions we take in real life. You can enjoy reading smut about fictional people who are different than you and go out into real life and interact with real people who fit that catagory and not be a creep. Because fictional people are different than real people.

It is my firm belief that Hieronymus/Lord Chamberlain has been the single most important father figur in Rupert's life. This man watched Rupert grow up and understood along the way that they were similar. And I believe that despite the stress of working under Queen Lavinia (Cause as much as we love our queen, it was a really toxic work environment), he bared it and continued serving the royal family anyway.

He went through all that just so Rupert would have someone beside him who understood what he was going through. That one day the prince would have to make a choice like Hieronymus did all those years ago. Cause he knew about the prophecy and he knew that Rupert could not face whatever challenges the forest might have for the prince if he wasn't true to himself.

And I can only imagine what immense joy he must have felt to know that after 18 years, Rupert finally made his choice and stayed true to himself by marrying the love of his life despite what the world threw against him. That Rupert had the courage to love, changing the world they lived in forever.

What a good dad!

Rupert : *Dies from cuteness*

Amir : ".... what... what are you?"

Wenceslaus : "I'M LITTLE RED RIDING HOOD BUT A PIRATE!!"