charlotte

incest and nsfw works are mentioned in this post

non-issue rant, don't take anything in this too personal or too seriously

first post, kinda nervous.../j anyways recently i have noticed an extremely large surge of hate in my otp hetalia ship, amepan. i see that people are shitting on it so much it's not even funny.

i kid you not SOME hetalians i know of hate it so much they literally put dni in their bio for those who DO ship it.🫩👍 it is not that deep brother, i promise you

i completely understand if you don't like a ship(personally i despise rusame), especially if it is a problematic one. but there are people out there saying that it's the worst ship ever when ships like itacest and other incest ships exist, and i think that's a bigger problem

we have normalised problematic ships like caname so much in the fandom that people think amepan is worse than what's illegal irl where i live(incest). 💔 we literally have fandom war crimes being commit in here can we bring attention to that instead of an overhated completely non problematic ship

and i get it if you prefer rusame, that ship has a goldmine of good content and historical significance, but dare i say amepan is even MORE historically significant than rusame, but it just needs better content. all the fanart i see of amepan is just doujinshi after doujinshi of them spreading their DNA onto each other, random comics about their dynamics, or just a few actual good fanarts of their history/angst made in 2012. don't get me wrong i'm thankful for all the content we have of it already, i just wish there was MORE VARIETY with the content. WE CRAVE ANGST BROTHERS. this segment is also the reason why things like "the flowering dogwood" on AO3 (written by @mourningdove1 my GOAT) are absolutely to die for and constantly praised. not saying it's undeserved it's absolutely beautiful but we NEED more amepan content like that!!! amepan nation is like exclamation mark with his shumblo juice in animatic battle ("thank you, for saving me! i was so thirsty, I WAS SO") and the shumblo juice is historical amepan. i fear that we lack this type of amepan because, apparently, WW2 is a sensitive topic to many, but it's literally SUCH an important part of history it's practically unavoidable and inevitable. amepan nation needs to step out of their comfort zones and COOK. if you're afraid you'll offend someone or a group of people, do research and COOK. PLEASE I BEG OF YOU AMEPANLINGS.

going back to the amepan hate, people have deadass compared shipping amepan to shipping THE REAL DEAL of sovietreich which, by the way, makes amepan look like a saint, if it wasn't already. i feel as if we are devolving as a society and regressing back to the 2017 tordtom amino shipping wars🥀

"and then people go and say amepan is the worst ship ever like what do you expect people to do start jumping up and down and marrying their little sisters.

'ew amepan is the worst ship ever!!'

TRANSLATING...

'I CONDONE INCEST!!! HOORAY MY PARENTS ARE IDENTICAL TWINS I THINK I'M GOING TO MARRY MY COUSIN'/lh/j" -famous words from a not so wise man (me a few hours ago)

if you didn't get the hint already MAJOR dni if u ship incest/problematic ships

ok? ok.

anyways that's it for my amepan ramblings i love these two so much. amepan amepan amepan. i am severely amepan pilled

tl:dr let's not shit on amepan when there are fandom atrocities(problematic ships) in the hetalia fandom free of condemning

I wrote TFD because the significant lack of historical exploration of amepan was genuinely killing me. Back when I first joined this fandom, I was probably one of the only writers actually creating historical amepan content. Frankly, I got very little recognition for the stories I made and posted on here on my old account or my old ao3 account, which have been deleted.

I understand amepan can be a touchy subject depending on the context in which you enjoy it. Historically, it's very rich but also very tricky to navigate if you don't know much at all. If you're planning to write their history, I recommend building a stronger foundation in the relevant subjects (e.g., WWII) before deciding to write a fic about it. Historical insensitivity has been a cornerstone of this fandom for decades; no one wants to be the dumb fujo who writes apologia for the U.S. or Imperial Japan intentionally or unintentionally.

It's why I stress nuance and knowledge. You can write Nationverse amepan with relative ease, as the source material does not delve deeply into their history at all. However, with history, you must obtain a certain level of tone and maturity when concerning both the atrocities and generally crueler parts of their combined history. Anyone willing to do this can easily write a good historical fic without violating the necessary principles of maintaining tone and respect for the original topics.

I do believe, though, we get onto the wrong ships for being "problematic" (in the context in which this word is used). People are going to pick and choose which ships to hate on—this is common in every fandom. Hetalia is no different. In fact, I'd argue certain people will loathe amepan with every fiber of their soul for being "boring" but will not give the same energy to, say, more reactionary ships like caname. They do not give the same leeway, though, for ships like caname. Incestuous ships (whether biologically related or not) truly vary with every person, and the fandom can't reach a true consensus about those ships. Personally, I think incest, both in and out of shipping, is reprehensible and deserves a lot more intolerance than it receives, especially here where people will actively defend shipping sworn brothers.

Amepan can be problematic, but it doesn't deserve the hatred it elicits, especially when it exists in conjunction with rusame. I personally like rusame in certain contexts. However, what I do not like is shippers feeling the need to compare the two and claim one is better than the other. In their respective contexts, they are equally good ships worthy of praise and criticism.

In general, amepan shippers, I feel, are a little too comfortable with this ship. It's true, WWII and its tension were inevitable, and it disheartens me to know people still refuse to see that. They don't have to like it, of course, but acknowledging that, yes, amepan is a complex ship when people actually take the time to delve deeper, is important. Amepan shippers just don't feel the need to venture outside that comfort zone of fluff and smut when it could be so much more than that. I'd argue our haters do have one point—we are boring.

We don't give any new shippers a reason to believe amepan is any more interesting than the canon material, which captures the friendliness of modern-day JPUS relationships but not the tensions, the rivalries, and the atrocities both have committed in the names of their nations. So, of course, given we do not venture outside our comfort zones, we don't grow as a group—we remain stagnant, stuck in the past, dare I say. I can't tell if there is a real difference in the amepan fandom in 2014 vs. 2026, because there's not any worth noting.

I do believe that the hate this ship receives is made out of ignorance and not necessarily genuine dislike of the ship. If all haters see is mindless fluff and offensive smut, then all they see is mindless fluff and offensive smut. The shippers have also been criticized for fetishism in the past, so it's no wonder that many shippers nowadays view us as Orientalists or fetishists when it comes to Japan. None of us really make the effort to change that image, hence why I can't tell you a real difference between 2014 and 2026, except maybe a rising popularity in a less submissive Japan.

I wouldn't call us shippers lazy; we're far from it, actually, but we are certainly inactive in straying from the norms. Not to mention, we're sort of falling out of popularity, with many new shippers feeling more inclined to more exciting dynamics like rusame or fruk. My call to action? We can make more exciting content if we have people willing to do it. If I can do it long after my teenage years were over, then I know someone else can too.

Maybe then we'd actually garner some respect from other shippers, at least enough not to warrant hatred. People are quite reactive nowadays; sometimes they just hate without knowing the real reason as to why, except for singular, simple arguments like "it's boring" or "it's fetishy." Tbh, I can see why, but I don't believe it's a valid argument if you can't construct a substantial reason for disliking a ship. Not that you have to have a good reason to dislike any ship, it's all subjective at the end. Hatred, though, is crossing the line, and you definitely shouldn't harass or ban people from fandom spaces for simply enjoying a rather tame ship compared to some really terrible pairings both in canon and historically.

...Also, to add in my two cents, people view it as a huge power gap ship. And to be honest, it literally is 😭

It's unavoidable for the ship, but I dont think that makes it inherently bad. Japan is a 2000 year old man, and he's aware of everything. If anything, i think this could be what makes the ship even more interesting if done right and not in the fetishy way. And really? I completely understand every criticism of that aspect, but its like, not prevalent as most ppl who dislike it make it out to be.

This is 2026, not 2013. You're just throwing shade at fan works from a decade ago. Again, I'm not saying fetishization doesn't happen, but I feel like the offensive racist depictions of Japan popping up nowadays are more of an issue. Look through the content, and you'll know what I'm talking about 💔

Yes, US imperialism is present, but again, it's unavoidable, and it's up to the fans to depict and interpret it the right way. If people can give RusAme the grace of it just being toxic, why does that notion not apply here?

Also, it's worth noting that most people hate just to hate. They don't actually want to dig deeper, and that's fine, honestly. You are not obligated to research a ship you dislike. What isn't okay, though, is basically clogging up the amepan search with hate (ahem hetatwt). Amepan is almost just as popular as RusAme at this point, and it's bound to cause ship wars and dislike. There's nothing you can really do besides disprove criticisms, people will hate. Most people attacking it either just contradict themselves, saying its either "boring" or "problematic cuz of the nukes." They don't actually care about proving why it's bad.

 Saturn is about 4.5 billion years old, pole to pole is 108,728 km and 120,500 km at the equator. The second biggest planet in the solar system, sixth planetary resident from the Sun, approximately 9.5 AU away. He is a planet of seven spherical moons out 292 confirmed moons as of March 11, 2026. In this literature I’ll be investigating the creation of Saturn's rings, doing my best to stay anchored to the canon of the Solarballs’ universe. What I want to prove is that Saturn is nothing but a tool in regard to the death of the unknown moon/s. That there is possibly another suspect/s responsible for the murder of these nameless moons.

 In this I’ll go over:

— evidence supporting my claim Saturn isn't entirely guilty

— Scraping for characters with a sliver of information about the rings creations

— possible witnesses to the event of the ring formations

— The one behind the slaughter

 To clarify, the rings being made out of the corpses of the debris of dead moons should be known to everyone as a theory. Some may believe its legitimacy more than others, but there isn't a definitive answer. If the theory is true, then Saturn would be responsible for the death of his moons. He did admit to his moons that, though it wasn’t done intentionally, he was guilty. He had reasoned that his moons aren’t big enough for him to notice their presence, implying he didn't know he killed moons because of how little they literally matter to him. That gross negligence would make him guilty of moonslaugter and all the moons would have the right to be angry at their planet. However, his confession was made because he was under the impression that his rings were indubitably made of deceased moons. A different prospect could've been introduced to Saturn during the Planets vs Moons trial; one of the planets' defendants, Mercury, had claimed that the rings’ creation was just a theory. When questioned by the Sun if he destroyed his moons, Saturn had technically revoked his past confession and found himself unable to confirm or deny. A genuine answer coming from the planet. This is the same planet who once claimed he was born with his rings 4 billion years ago. It could be inferred that Saturn has no solid recollection of what occurred when he obtained his rings. Nobody has mentioned missing moons or the celestials had not cared to examine the rings for traces of previous moons. Saturn has no memory to be held accountable and there are no witnesses that has confronted the accusation. Hence, Saturn is effectively in limbo till proven there was an act of a crime.

There is a possibility the rings aren't made of moons. There's the theory that asteroids and comets crashed into the planets’ Roche limit. The planets have been shown with popcorn asteroids and comets as implied celestial food. Saturn could simply be a messy eater. Though I guess that's still up for debate.

How did nobody know where Saturn got his rings?

 The large moon population orbiting Saturn would make it more likely to've witnessed the event or at least notice fellow moons were missing. However, no one had explicitly stated the rings are 100% moon. They had a chance to say something during the trial, yet they didn’t. Most of the moons might've not even realized anyone in the orbit was missing to begin with. The saturnian moons seem more like a commoonity rather than as a camaraderie. They'd probably be more concerned with a situation if it involved them personally. Not really keeping track of everyone in the orbit. An example of their nonchalant-ness about a moon disappearance, is when Titan went missing. Dione only wanted him to return so they didn't get in any more trouble with Saturn. In “The Army of Moons (timestamp 4:44-5:11)” Dione gathered a meeting with the Saturnian moons to discuss who was gonna be the biggest moon. Enceladus suggested Dione but Iapetus said they're bigger than her. Then Rhea chimed in saying she was bigger than both of them. Mildly annoyed by their input Dione told Iapetus he was bigger by a little. With Rhea, Dione said she forgot she existed. Based on her jaded response Dione was just sour about not being the biggest. Not that Rhea let her attitude bother her. The Saturnian moons’ meeting feels like a competition. Like siblings squabbling for a parent's love and attention. During “Saturn gets his Moons back!” Almost all the Saturnian Moons are collectively upset at Saturn for continuously misnaming all of them but Titan. However, they agree to give him one more chance but Dione states if he messes up, she's done. Then a whole assembly of moons individually agree with her. During the meet and greet with Saturn some of the moons were pushing for their turn before Saturn could take in the previous moon. We do get to meet a new character that wasn't present before this episode, which is interesting. Saturn had asked how many moons he met when he started to realize he was getting overwhelmed. Rhea answered 7, and she said there were more than 100 moons left unless more are discovered. After it was over Mimas accused Saturn for only knowing Titan’s name and asked if he knew his name. Hyperion asked the same, unsurprisingly Saturn didn't get any of their names right. I wouldn't bet the moons of Saturn would be motivated enough to cover up a murder, especially for the attention of a planet they all don't like. They seem more passive in the endeavor for their planet's attention if anything. However, I won't entirely disregard sibling discourse as a possibility.

Titan is their peer that went missing and Iapetus even knows where he was last spotted. However, I don't think they went looking for him. Also, they just wanted him to return because they didn't want any more problems with Saturn. After Titan was gone for some time, they were fighting to take his place as Saturn's biggest moon. I am curious if they remembered that Tethys wasn't there for the revolution… that we know of. The number of moons in the orbit is also unconfirmed according to Rhea. So, they probably don't know everyone orbiting Saturn. In speculation, the moons could be more occupied with themselves, not too focused on their peers' attendance. There's some rivalry for Saturn's attention, certainly towards Titan, but nothing notably aggressive. If anyone went missing all that time ago, they've probably been forgotten.

Maybe nobody really cared where the rings came from because it wasn't about them. The rings are a very iconic to Saturn's look and perhaps their origin was overshadowed by how glamorous they are. But perhaps, nobody cared for the disappearance of this hypothetical moon/moons because there was nobody to miss. Either because they didn't exist in the Solarballs universe, or because they were unregistered.

Could someone has seen what happened?

Perchance there is a reliable witness out there who saw the creation of the rings. Foreboding anyone who could know about the truth is staying quiet or knows little about the situation.

Planet X seems to know everything with no loyalties to Saturn, but he left the solar system. He did draw his attention to the rings by sarcastically remarking that he noticed Saturn got a makeover. He also commented he couldn't get over the size of his rings.

In “Venus wants a makeover" Venus believes rings are gravity-crushed space debris. It's debatable if he knows what the debris is made from. He didn't seem to have much respect for the moons (at least during the time he said that), so moons could be equivalent to random space debris to him. It's suspicious that he knows something about how rings are formed, and he didn't say anything during the trial. Could Venus be covering for Saturn? Probably not but still.

There was that time Earth saw Saturn from the distance as he got inspired on how to deal with the earthling trash. Then Luna popped in on his train of thought, told him it was a bad idea. The bad idea in he had in the process was gathering the space trash to form a ring like Saturn's. He had flattened the trash into a ring around him. When he went to show off the trash ring to Mercury and Venus, he told them he got the ring by doing what Saturn did. But did he really know what Saturn did to get his rings? There may be the slightest possibility that Earth remembers how Saturn shaped his rings. However, Earth suffers from stupidity. To be honest, I am not quite sure if Earth knows where Saturn got the materials to create the rings. He probably would be horrified to know the truth. Despite Earth being ashamed of Luna, at the time, I doubt he ever considered crushing them into rings. Also, Earth is sheltered and stays in the goldilocks zone. There's a possibility he never knew what the rings are made of. He may have thought Saturn's orbit was a mess for a bit, then saw the rings formed around the big gas planet. 

Also, fun fact: the moon might crash into Earth one day and the debris will form rings around the planet. 

Mercury said the rings being made from moons is just a theory. Until fairly recently Mercury was tightly sandwiched between Sun and Venus. So, he may know rumors, but nothing solid.

Sun also doesn't pay attention to the moons the way he does his planet and didn't notice any moons gone. I mean, he did question if the rings were made of moons.

Maybe Uranus knows but he ain't snitching to the Sun because he has rings as well. One of Sun's rules was that no planets will crash into each other. If Uranus Impactor existed, then that would look bad for the ice giant. Though Uranus probably been waiting for someone to ask about his rings.

This is based on bias opinion but Jupiter ain't snitchin on Saturn either.

Neptune probably doesn't know how Saturn got his rings. He has been noted to have been missing for years. Even asking where Saturn had got his rings, which is the question that had sparked this entire thing.

Saturn does want his moons cared for, but we saw spreading his attention to everyone wanes on him. In “How do planets develop life ― part 1” in a f****** Odo sponsor, Saturn is freaking out because he had moons forming around him. He was concerned he wouldn't know what to do and he'd forget their names. This is ironic because he ends up forgetting their names with less concern later down the timeline. It wasn't till Titan made him aware of his neglect did he start to become less bliss. Maybe in the past Saturn did try to remember all his moons’ names but eventually found it easier to focus on a selected bunch with Titan as his main moon. Whatever happened for Saturn to change his prospective could be because of head trauma, his mind subconsciously protecting him from any unpleasant event, or Saturn is just Saturn. I swear, his memories are held together by Elmer’s glue and scotch tape. Again, like I said before Saturn doesn't remember how he got his rings, and probably for the life of him couldn't even remember any moons missing from his orbit.

Astrodude could share his knowledge, as an astronomical enthusiast, the evidence where the rings came from. However, he couldn't have been there to witness their formation. If my math is correct, he's about thirty years old.

Saturn never told his moons that the rings being made from corpses was a theory. Saturn basically confesses to his moons that he committed moonslaughter. Never once had mentioned or alluded to his confession as theoretical. The moons gasped in shock when Saturn told them, and nobody came out to debunk him. The moons of Saturn should only know that it happened, and Saturn claimed he didn’t know he had done it. The same should go for Saturn. Recapping how Saturn got the information, he heard Neptune asked Uranus how he got his rings. Answering for Uranus where his rings came from. Saturn thought he was born with them 4 billion years ago before Astrodude chimed in about the more recent evidence. Explaining to them that a moon got too close and were destroyed by the planet's gravity. That there is a possibility the destruction of moons that formed previous rings has been going on for billions of years. What Astrodude said sure seemed like news to Saturn. It noticeably distraught Saturn when he heard that. Astrodude tried to ease Saturn by telling him it's just a theory, but Saturn flew off crying about killing his moons. Later, during the planet vs moon trial, the representatives for the moons claimed that Saturn killed his moons to create rings. Mercury objected to that notion, he said Saturn's rings' origins were just a theory. I don't know how Mercury knew about the theory but it's not important right now. When Saturn was asked if he killed his moons he couldn't confirm or deny it. Of course he can't confirm the truth, he doesn't remember how he got them in the first place. It was during the trial when he was informed that there's a chance the rings aren’t made of past tense moons. Also, nobody ever came forward to settle the true origins of the rings. The whole solar system in one place and no one witnessed the creation of the flashiest planet accessory. Wack.

There was something strange that I caught earlier. Before the trial, the moons of Saturn weren't informed that what Saturn told them was just a theory. Well, actually that’s not true. In the episode “The Moon Club — part three (time stamp 6:00–6:15)” Dione said their problem with Saturn was he could only remember Titan's name, and he killed his moons that made his rings. He knew he can't defend the part about how Saturn favors him. Titan did however tell Dione that the destruction of moons wasn’t a proven theory, and Saturn wasn’t aware it happened. Dione pushed that it was still worth addressing, and Titan hastily complied. He wrote on the chalk board behind him ‘preference+possible destruction’ for their issues with Saturn. I don't think he wanted to prompt an argument about the legitimacy of the rings’ formation. But more notably, Titan shouldn't know it's a theory. Saturn had said he did it with almost no room for misinterpretation. This is an error, or Titan assumed it was a theory because Saturn said he didn’t know he caused the destruction of old moons. However, there's a chance something weird is going on. 

Titan wanted Dione to have doubts about the possibility and, if it did happen, Saturn wasn’t aware.

So, is Titan not saying something?... We must answer something else first.

Will Solarballs ever Talk about the rings?

Sorry, gotta go meta for this. But, yeah, they might make an arc about the rings. It just might not be anything anybody would expect. Idk tbh.

Also, damn this series making go back to f****** TicTok!

In the short the mentioned a hypothetical moon by the name of Chrysalis. This probably also the same character Mr. Alvaro had alluded to in the Solarballs QnA. According to this article I found on Science, Lost moon may have spawned Saturn's rings by Eric Hand, Chrysalis is an unofficial name, and it's also called the Lost moon in the article. From what I gathered on the article, the Cassini spacecraft collected enough data before falling into Saturn about the rings. Apparently since the ring aren't dirty looking, like Uranus', it's expected the rings are relatively new. They think they're about 160 million years old. In my understanding, the scientists were also trying to figure out Saturn's weird tilt and notice Saturn's spin was in sync with Neptune's. They combined the ideas that something had disturbed Saturn's resonance which resulted in the rings formation. That thing being the outward migration of Saturn's biggest moon, Titan. Based on calculated probability, the chaotic forces of another moon could be a solution were Saturn's rings and tilt originated.

In simulations they placed the Lost moon between Titan and Iapetus. According to the words of the article, the chaotic dynamic of its neighbors had caused it to crash. In the 390 simulations only 17 would have been the collision that created the rings.

I had also made a recreation of what could've happened to this hypothetical moon.

As you can see it's pretty graphic.

Still, everything is nothing but theories and hypotheticals. Till the day scientist could accurately toss planets into each other it the best that is could be done.

so, question still remains...

Who in Solarballs killed Saturn's moon/s?

There is no way I can accurately predict what might happen in an arc that's probably not even figured out. But if there was a gun pointed at my head, and I had to make a conclusion, I assume Chrysalis killed Chrysalis.

See if I had to generalize everything in this, I'd say almost everyone was probably more self-involved around the time Saturn's rings formed. To coincide with Itian's character development, maybe Chrysalis is the reason he is the way he is. He could've known of Chrysalis back then, but maybe he kept pushing them away. Assuming solarballs would follow the hypothetical where Titan has an effect in the situation. After the Lost moon was shredded by the planet, Titan probably couldn't help feeling partially at fault. For whatever reason he didn't tell anyone what had happened, but it was not like anybody else knew. I think nobody else knew. Perhaps, Titan couldn't handle being held emotionally accountable and subconsciously spread partial blame on his planet. At the same time Titan would rather not discuss the rings' creation and try to stay divorced from reality as possible. That might be the reason why he tried to diminish the accusation by saying it was a theory but still saying Saturn did it without knowing. Perhaps knowing what happened to Chrysalis is why Titan felt so subordinate in his introduction.

I'd say that being forgotten is the Saturnian moons' main conflict. Chrysalis probably was forgotten too, or else someone would have said their name. Most of them probably didn't even know who Chrysalis was when they were alive. And the only one I can barely presume knew of this Lost moon is avoiding the conversation that might involve them. If only it were known what Saturn was like to his moon in the past. I could say that perhaps Chrysalis was like Icarus, and they just wanted to be close to someone. How did Saturn react when he suddenly had ring around him?