そらscifi

"and although ra's al ghul is something like 400 years old, i'm pretty sure that talia is still a young woman--young by our standards, not just her father's." from "the talia al ghul I know… and the sister I don’t" by dennis o'neil

in talia's introduction story, she tells bruce she studies medicine at the "university of cairo”; however, it's unclear if she is actually a student or if it is just a cover, but this issue was published just one year after dick grayson (then robin) left gotham city for new york's hudson university—putting dick and talia in a similar age range additionally, i’m not entirely sure how true this is but apparently in the united states, most med students tend to be ~24-26 years old whereas in egypt, med students tend to be ~18-24 detective comics (1937) #411

bruce refers to talia as "the girl" and "[ra's] girl-child" and to her and dick as "the kids" in batman (1940) #232; here, dick would be around his freshman year of college (and since a large source of conflict that comes up in this era is his dislike of bruce addressing him as/treating him like a kid, i'm inferring the “kids” part is more symbolic/about the role) batman (1940) #232

editor and writer dennis o’neil refers to bruce as being at a "perpetual 33" and in his "early 30s" this interview with dennis o'neil // dennis o'neil's batbible (1989)

before knowing her identity in this arc, bruce refers to talia as "lady", however when he learns the lady is talia, he calls her "girl" to commissioner gordon. additionally, when he's yelling at her in he calls her "lady" (which actually was what irritated me so badly that i became inspired to track all these numbers down to make a post about it 😭). to add on, most everyone in this arc also calls her "girl", including jack ryder in #445 and jim gordon in #444–this is not at all uncommon detective comics (1937) #444, 444, 448

bruce is surprised by her age when she says she is "not yet thirty", since he assumed she was older ("a hundred years? two? more?"), which directly rejects wolfman's retelling of talia of over "150 years" old in batman #334--also keep note that birth of the demon is written by talia's creator, dennis o'neil birth of the demon (1992) // batman (1940) #334

in birth of the demon, it is said she was conceived at woodstock (which happened in august of 1969), meaning her birthday would be around may of 1970--birth of the demon was released in 1992, meaning she would be ~22 at that point; if you want to compare it to the new 52, batman inc establishes the concert ra's and melisande met as the 1985 live aid benefit concert (or at least i'm inferring that the fake continent guitar thing is a reference to live aid's design's version with africa), making talia ~24 in the new 52, and bruce is explicitly stated to the 32 (if you're wondering how that works out with damian, new 52 damian was grown in a test tube & was "artificially aged") birth of the demon (1992) // batman inc (2010) #2 // batman (2011) #37

sorry if none of this makes sense its like 4 am i will revisit this and probably delete it tmrw anyway so yayyy also more of my thoughts below:

also more nuance is that o'neil apparently dissuaded everyone from considering son of the demon canon (i'm assuming due to his beliefs about not wanting to age batman (and talia) or provide bruce with a taste of that domesticity for real? which i feel like he discusses a lotttt & also his preference for them as a tragedy (like detective comics annual #1 & such)) ALSO which makes me wonder what his view of later stories like silencer & death and the maidens (stories where talia uses the pit (willingly or not)) vs stories like the chalice where she refuses to and what his thoughts on that would be.... hmmmmmm

also currently i am trying to compile more stuff that references her new52 age & post-rebirth age but i am less interested in that (and those eras . nor do i exactly want to reread new52 stuff) so i don't know how long that will take (i also want to chart out all relevant batman family ages but we'll see . i have most everything plotted out separately but i need to put it together & ofc double check citations)...

also i see the rhetoric "talia was closer to dick's age than bruce's" quite frequently which i just want to say appears to be true if we consider dick to be 18 in 1969 (by batman (1940) #217)) & 20 in 1987 (in secret origins (1986) #13) & he ages slowly up to 25/6 in 2009 (and 21 in the new52) even without specific dates that would put them in a much closer range than bruce at least . much to think about here… (also unrelated but i really want to do a parallel chart of silver/bronze age dick-to-talia babs-to-bruce teamups i feel like that has a LOT of potential and i have so many connections in my head already + i need to add more to my already existing ra's-to-bruce & talia-to-dick parallel charts)

and maybe this is a hot take but as much as i care for batman: the knight (2022) as a story and important part of batman mythos (and that it will become very central and be built off of more in the future) i do really think that that talia being somewhat substantially younger than bruce is important to her character (and also her growth later as she becomes more independent and also all of her more obsessive actions fit the archetype of young woman in love more imo) & also from a barr interview i believe he says something about how bruce&talia are a very compelling romance in part to how new she is (at the time of the interview) to the mythos and how that adds to the intensity of their relationship and imo that ties to a o'neil&barr joint interview where they discuss this and how it contrasts against bruce&selina's relationship--like overall that them knowing each other before bruce was batman/or any variation of training together is kind of is damaging if that makes sense . idk my hot take #myhottake

ABSOLUTE WONDER WOMAN #17 PREVIEW

,,WONDER WOMAN, BETRAYED!

Diana faces off against a team assembled with only one mission in mind: take down Wonder Woman at any cost. But after a strangely intimate betrayal, Diana finds herself outplayed, boxed in, and running out of options…"

Writer: Kelly Thompson

Artist: Hayden Sherman

Color: Jodie Bellaire

Okay, one, she's cute as hell.

Two, the immediate introduction with her using the proper form of address for Bruce (Mister Wayne) and Damian (Master Wayne) is delightful.

Three, tsk-tsk all these articles calling her butler when she clearly introduced herself as the majordomo (the gender-neutral term).

Four, I can definitely see the possibilities in a character like this -- hell, the closest thing I have to a DC OC fills basically this exact same role -- and I'm glad they didn't try to stick Julia in the position. That would've been doing her a disservice. So I'm interested to see where they go with this.

A prop used in Hell Bent

Rachel Talalay recently shared a picture of this “magazine” that was used as a prop in the diner in Hell Bent. What a perfect way to complete Clara’s story! It’s just a shame that this cover was never seen clearly in the episode, but can anyone find it lying around somewhere?

It includes references to The Impossible Girl, Clara’s book of 101 places to see, Clara’s passion for making soufflés, as well as a mention of a “Russian Sub Terror” (Cold War), and a “Bank Heist” (Time Heist).

And here there are two other images of Jenna and Peter that Rachel Talalay shared in the last few days, also taken during the filming of Hell Bent. 

But I wish they called back to her souffles and 101 Places to See book in her final episode.

Breaking the Fourth Wall

Both these episodes have a besieged character trapped and counting down the days. Remember Oswin's first line of dialogue? "Day 363. The terror continues." She's trapped in her ship (and delusion, as it turns out), hiding from Daleks at the door.

I cracked it! Headcanoning Poppy & Belinda Chandra to make sense of the timey wimiest finale ever, as using the UNIT archives and teasing out RTD's poetic subtext (almost letting him off the hook).

TLDR: Belinda met her child, Poppy, a year or more before she should have due to the Wish World. We met Belinda before she had Poppy. She was always going to give birth to Poppy in the show's future, on or off screen, with Ritchie Akingnbola as the father. The only danger to her destiny was meeting 15 as by the time Wish-Poppy vanishes, she's ready to go on more adventures.

If that happened, the one true Poppy would never exist. Only one could ever exist in Belinda's entire life/timeline, no variants allowed. Even if the Doctor placed her back on Earth immediately, the damage to destiny was done.

Ultimately, the Doctor's sacrifice brought Poppy, a 2-year-old, forward by 2 years. Alternatively, his last scene with the Chandras tool place in 2027, not 2025. The timeline got elastic to accommodate Poppy's existence and establish the canon timeline 15 died for!

Hear me out: what if 14 is the Vlinx?

That could satisfy the fans who wonder why 14 is chilling whenever the Earth is under threat *giggles*

Sure, 14 is a retired Doctor, but he can't not keep his nose totally out of things. Where better than to monitor everything - including keeping an eye on Rose Noble - than within UNIT HQ disguised as a gonzo robot?