the queen we chose.

This comment by the Jonsa Lawyer stood out:

One thing particularly striking about death by fire is it’s essentially impossible to die with any dignity in that situation…which is basically the point.

Like really?

How did this guy die then?

He died with dignity? Or begging and pleading for a second chance? Which Jon did not give him because Jon needed to make a stand and a statement about his authority as Lord Commander.

How was Janos Slynt’s death more dignified than this?

Dany too needed to make a statement about her authority with these lords who kept openly defying her.  Dany was actually even more lenient than Jon - she offered them two chances - bend the knee/go to the wall. Unlike Slynt, they refused to do either.

If we are talking about her battle against the Lannisters….

How is this more dignified than someone dying slowly in the battle of the bastards with their guts hanging out?

See all the dead people behind Robb? I doubt they had dignified deaths…

Remember those dead soldiers that the Tarlys and Jaime slew in Highgarden? Hell, Dickon describes feeling bad about the smell and the deaths of people he used to call friends. Think they had nice, easy dignified deaths at the hands of those they used to consider brothers in arms?

How about all those Wildlings that died when Jon Snow poured hot oil on them and then burned them with fire tipped arrows? Dignified deaths?

Did Olly have a dignified death? A child hanging with his tongue sticking out? Probably lost control of his bowels.

What about when Tyrion blew people up with Wildfire?

What about when Ned and Stannis crushed the Ironborn rebellion against the Iron Throne and killled many including Theon’s brothers. Dignified deaths there?

War is bad and death is death - death is ugly. There is nothing dignified about death in Westeros.  No matter who is involved - be it Robb, Jon, Sansa, Jaime, Stannis, Tyrion, Joffrey, Tywin, Ned, Renly or Dany.

There is no good war or bad war. No good death or bad death. They are all the same.

Don’t be hypocrites. If you want to criticize Dany for her war, then be an equal opportunity critic and criticize everyone.

top 20 pre-asoiaf characters as voted by our followers: → #11: shiera seastar (108 votes)

It makes it look like Dany is in the wrong for pursuing the Iron Throne in the first place when she is not. She is simply acting like every other feudal lord would, i.e. based on the societal belief that they’re owed lands and privileges according to their birthrights.

When people make this point, they often mention that Viserys influenced Dany to believe that she wants the Iron Throne and follow his goal, but that it’s not really hers. This is not factually wrong, but Viserys is obviously an unsympathetic character, so, again, on its own, the argument implicitly frames Dany’s war for the Iron Throne on a negative light based on a ridiculous double standard. For instance, why don’t people also say that Ned and Catelyn Stark influenced their children to believe that they want Winterfell, but that it’s not really what they want? Would that mean that Robb would have no right to fight for Northern independence and cause bloodshed and that his younger siblings wouldn’t have the right to fight to retake Winterfell? Of course not, because they are all acting based on the moral standards of a feudal society, but this is usually not acknowledged with Dany. Even if Viserys made her want to conquer the Seven Kingdoms, Dany is not going “darker” merely for doing so - at least not any more than any other feudal lord who retains their lands thanks to the conquests of their ancestors is. Saying otherwise means judging Dany based on modern standards and avoiding to do the same with everyone else.

The dichotomy that people create between Dany’s desire for home and Dany’s war is flawed because, in Dany’s case, home and war are not mutually exclusive (just like it wouldn’t be for the Starks, though they presumably won’t have to get their hands dirty because of Stannis). Instead, I think that the dichotomy between home (going back to Westeros) and duty (towards the freedmen of Slaver’s Bay) is a more apt dichotomy, since both of those options acknowledge that war is inevitable for Dany either way and don’t paint her in a negative light for choosing to start any of them.

None of the double standards above are addressed in the sort of defense that only praises Dany when she wants a home (and doesn’t dare to fight for power like a good girl wouldn’t). It rubs me the wrong way because these are also the same people who refuse to acknowledge how the theory that Dany burns King’s Landing (regardless of being an accident or not) is offensive in many ways. It argues that Dany’s revolution in Slaver’s Bay will propel her to worry less about collateral damage and then cause her to accidentally kill thousands of people, which is a problem since Dany is the only independent female leader of the story and yet part of the fandom is heavily defining her by failure and violence for making warfare decisions while not doing the same with male leaders (this criticism applies regardless of whether their theory becomes canon for not). But then, these fans don’t care about that because they have pro-Sansa/Stark biases (hence why it’s accepted that Sansa is the embodiment of hope for the future and that Dany is “arrogant” and “brash”, among other “many flaws”) and think that Dany’s campaign for the Iron Throne is morally wrong to begin with (despite the double standards mentioned above). This is partly why a Stark restoration is widely accepted, but not a Targaryen restoration despite there being evidence for the latter. 

V  I  S  E  R  Y  S  lusted after his father’s throne

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