Good Ideas, Horrid Execution

That bait and switch was actually diabolical.

We were excited to get a short diving into one of the relevant female background characters of the show, one we didn’t get a whole lot of depth and detail in except for her relationship to the male lead, and instead we get… that.

They know one of their most common critiques is how they treat female characters, and they do that bait and switch anyway in favor of the most blandest, irreverent and unliked male character in the show.

For the amount of screen time and relevance, he has gotten an insane amount of love from the merch and writing teams. Whether intentional or not, it reeks of misogyny to write like they have through this series. To constantly overlook or under develop women characters sometimes even in favor of the most irrelevant male characters.

For years now, some of the deserved criticism has been about women characters, but some more screen time in shorts doesn’t fix these issues. It is not a screen time issue alone either, it’s a writing one.

"The Morningstars confuse me. So, let me get this straight. Charlie says she and her dad have never been close, especially after he and her mom split up, and he wanted nothing to do with her. But when we see Lucifer, he wants something to do with Charlie? He has always wanted to be close with her, but he believed Charlie didn’t want anything to do with him? So have they been pulled apart by someone else? Idk if this is just me being too dumb to understand this, but it reads like Viv wanted them to be absent from each other, but also didn’t want to make Lucifer a total jerk for that. All I hope is that she doesn’t make it all Lilith’s fault."

None of the information presented here cancels out itself. All of this stuff is simultaneously true. Charlie and Lucifer were not close post-split. Lucifer wanted to be there for Charlie but believed she didn't want anything to do with him, so he wasn't there for her. They were pulled apart by Lilith's interference, the show EXPLICITLY shows us this. Lucifer and Charlie have a canonically estranged relationship that we got a whole episode of focus on in the first season.

Something else I don't understand is why some people want Lucifer to be a bad dad so bad? He has enough flaws to where one can say he isn't perfect, his criticisms are clearly outlined in the show, why are people so desperate to believe Lucifer was originally supposed to be presented as a cruel, unloving jerk who just didn't care about Charlie?

On the topic of Lucifer, I always found the subversion of expectations with him interesting (though I DO wish Vivienne didn't have to nerf his abilities for the sake of the plot) and feel the show would arguably work even less if he didn't like Charlie. If he didn't have the personality and limitations he did, the show wouldn't even be able to progress the way it currently does. He'd have shut it all down in the first season.

I personally don't want Lucifer to be outright abusive and I'm definitely down for a more morally grey or outright not evil take on him - it just feels like there were all these threads set up for Lucifer and Charlie to have a more complicated relationship in the pilot and then it's kinda glossed over in exchange for making him yet another one of Viv's "Sad Boy Dad" characters like Stolas. Like, imagine if Lucifer was unsure about the hotel not because he hates Charlie, but he doesn't believe sinners can redeem themselves and he doesn't want to see her heartbroken after realizing how awful humans are the way he learned.

"just noticed that on some of the merch they aren't doing the crossed out o thing on blitz's name anymore??? just putting his deadname on the merch omg"

Andrealphus brings up Stolas cheating on Stella as a reason as to why she deserves compensation in the divorce. Stolas refutes that because he and Stella were never in love it doesn’t count as a betrayal. The client in Sinsmas says that her husband cheated on her. Blitz says that cheating isn't a big deal and the resolution of this plotline is tossing her out a window.

Striker brings up how Stolas treats Blitz like a plaything and that not everyone was raised in luxury. The show reframes him as a homophobic supremacist (not what that word means) who is upset that Blitz and Fizz are in relationships with royals because he’s bigoted against them.

In S2E7, Fizzaroli’s stalker is a jilted fan who believes that they could help “fix” his act, portrayed as an acne-ridden slob who drives poor sympathetic Fizz to tears.

When Adam is fighting Alastor, one of his lines when getting attacked by Alastor’s minions is “too much red”. Velvette reprises this statement, calling the hotel tacky and bringing up, once again, too much red.

Katie Killjoy and the rest of Voxtech criticize Charlie for “enforcing her puritanical beliefs” and “only protecting her favorite characters”, things I have seen multiple people bring up when discussing the first season.

"A lot of people comment that they like more the background characters' designs that the main cast's, which is something I partially agree. However, there are exceptions. Come just look like generic pop culture demons or have fish creature motifs with sharp teeth. Season 2 became better in this, until they made guitar, cello and mere objects people like muppet socks. What did that person do to become a muppet sock? Come on!"

Also, I like the weird object demons that aren't just objectheads! If we're going with the idea that a sinner's form represents how they acted in life/their sins, then yea, I wanna know about the feather duster or the paintbrush and yes, the sock puppet sinners! Plus honestly, I feel like if everyone was an animal things would get old fast or at least feel stale- it's why a lotta Alastor redesigns lean into the radio aspect more than the deer one.

Screw it, I'll use this post to share some of my fav object sinner designs

The difference in wording here is so small but so important. Because it's a real examination of why Charlie's character (as well as the show's lesson) is failing now in the show.

Not everyone can be redeemed. Anyone can try to atone, but there are things that people have done that they can't make up for. But the point of Charlie's dream (or what should be the point) is that everybody should be given the chance and the resources to try and be better.

It's a way more realistic and mature outlook on what she's trying to accomplish. Even though Pilot Charlie is naive, this shows that she has genuinely put thought and effort into her goals. Show Charlie feels like she's never considered the implications and is continuously caught off guard by how awful her people are because of it.

I don’t like vivzie either but holy shit wishing harm and disgusting things on the fandom and the creator is just as bad as them. You’re stooping down to their pathetic level

BE NORMAL IT IS NOT THAT HARD!!! it is not difficult to just NOT post about wishing horrible evil awful things on vivzie and her fandom 💀

this will also serve as a DNI for me. If you post about and wish harm upon Vivzie and the people that watch her shows OR JUST TO PEOPLE IN GENERAL, block me. Don’t chat to me, stay far away

I go through these tags to see people’s perspectives and thoughts, not death threats to vivzie stan #103857429

EDIT: I cannot believe I have to specify this, ITS NOT OKAY FOR VIVZIE OR HER FANDOM TO DO IT EITHER. I am not defending her or her crazy ass fandom, I am saying it is just as bad to do the same shit they’re doing to critics and antis back to them. It’s like passing the baton back and forth of hate and violence stop passing that baton 💀

Inspo/Ideas/Minor rewrite:

The term "Gold Chick"

The ugly duckling

Started as a flapper dancer, later became a movie star

Was attacked/shot on New Years Eve around 11:23PM. Died at 12:01AM 1941 [was born February 22nd, 1906]

More greed aspects, Pride is secondary (so less red on her)

Almost became an overlord but was toppled by a more "attractive" star and made laughing stock because "hurr durr fat woman had confidence and ambitions how could she, doesn't she know how ugly she is?" Despite her manipulation and sweet talking skills among her "charm".

Still besties with Alastor

Died of a shooting she was involved with (you can't expect to be famous by talent alone, hm? maybe some connections that... had some consequences. that's why she is well-liked by the (sinner) loan sharks and minor gangs and still carries a certain minor fame. even though she would prefer people know her for her performances and not... her unfortunate buisness. It's as if Husk is only known for his alcohol abuse and not for his cheating/gambling/magician skills. [I'd like imagine he uses his magician skills to distract people when he fucks up, cheats or needs to buy time.]

Has actually met Mammon once, he's chill with her (I mean she almost became the overlord of greed, that's something to gawk at for 3 minutes). Uses that as a great (hm, well..) marketing strategy towards herself

- is immensly confused and pissed by the fact that her body (type) was considered desirable at her living period and a disgrace, nowadays

-tries to establish a plus-size/chubby/fat positive clothing and entertainment industry in the modern era. Velvette is sadly out-ranking her as an overlord. (Imagine Velvette heing edblr/edtwt in Hell and being immensly popular among overlords. It's impossible to exist as a fat sinner without hateful comments being made. [for now 😈.]

- will NEVER lose her pride despite hateful standards and comments & culture.

- my OC is her assistant because i love her

- Her songs are: Nymphology/All Eyes On Me/I Will Survive

I'll go first to break the ice.

Seeing not just non toxic fans, but the crew just pour their all into this show does feel warm when you don't think about the writing and community attitudes. Many people hold these characters so close to their hearts in the same way I do with my favorite things and that's beautiful.

Even if there is distain for nasty behaviors in the hellaverse, I hope the fandom, crew, and even Viv herself have a nice holiday in these times.

* HAPPY HOTEL : RESIDENTS AND WORKERS ( Alastor too, I guess ) *

So while everyone else is fighting the Vees or trying to stop the big angel cannon, Charlie and Emily are helping "resuce" sinners from the rubble

But, WHY ISNT SHE GOING INTO SUPER POWER DEMON MODE?????

She's like reaching for people and like running around but??? SHE HAS SUPER POWERS????

Charlie is literally the strongest out of everyone in the fight, and we know she'd rather not fight and she's not the best fighter anyway, but why isn't she using her ANGELIC SUPERPOWERS TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE????

I HATE how Charlie gets pushed to the side while all the other characters get to use their powers to help in the fight. She could be using her firework powers to blast rubble out of the sky to save sinners, she has a trident she can use a crowbar or something, she has a whole ass DRAGON she can fly around on. WHY WASNT CHARLIE ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING COOL THIS SEASON?????

Her character was already massacred when the writers mistook her well-meaning naivety for stupidity, but she wasn't even allowed to do anything cool in the big boss fight of the season.

Why do they INSIST that Charlie’s the main character when it's so painfully obvious that the writers (Vivziepop) rather focus on the assortment of tumblr sexyman OCs instead?